Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 13/8

Ed The Equalizer

Larry Wildman wrote: »

We have a squad that has a good chance (with Van Gaal at the helm) of finishing top four, but we should forget about the title.

Louis Van Gaal wrote:

For me, the challenge is always to come first. Not fourth.

.

keane2097

irishfeen wrote: »

Absolutely horrible horrible disease - I'm all for giving it to them, we'll see what yermandan who's running it thinks.

Let the winner decide IMO. We all have charities that are close to our heart.

MagicIRL

Just be thankful we're not buying David Luiz for 50mill. #Perspective

Larry Wildman

Taok wrote: »

.

Those quotes from Van Gaal are head in the sand stuff (if we don't sign anyone).

However, I believe that we will sign two or three world class players, Vidal being one of them. I don't understand this uncertainty around his knee. Just fly a Ray Moran type character out to look at it.

irishfeen

keane2097 wrote: »

Let the winner decide IMO. We all have charities that are close to our heart.

I've no problem with that either lad, I was just making a suggestion - of course there is countless worthy charities although there is only 9 in so far so that's €9 to charity only...

Hococop

speaking of luiz and psg,what the story with di maria all rumours of him moving seem to have died out fairly quick

MagicIRL

Hococop wrote: »

speaking of luiz and psg,what the story with di maria all rumours of him moving seem to have died out fairly quick

As per the holy book, we can only have one extraordinary loan story at a time. It's currently Falcao.

Maximus Alexander

I wonder would people be so keen on signing Vidal if he looked like Luke Chadwick?

Larry Wildman

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I wonder would people be so keen on signing Vidal if he looked like Luke Chadwick?

We get it...you fancy Vidal (and Becks)

Maximus Alexander

Larry Wildman wrote: »

We get it...you fancy Vidal (and Becks)

bucketybuck

Taok wrote: »

Originally Posted by Louis Van Gaal
For me, the challenge is always to come first. Not fourth..

.

Oh don't worry LVG, with that midfield first place will be a challenge, no doubt about that...

Larry Wildman

Alex Song allegedly on the transfer list at Barca...he'd be a useful addition to our squad in my view.

We need do some business and we need to do it soon. Arguably it's too late already as the season starts in 10 days so any new additions won't be integrated into the setup.

A disgrace really - Another poor poor summer.

ElChe32

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Alex Song allegedly on the transfer list at Barca...he'd be a useful addition to our squad in my view.

No thanks, was sitting on his hole soaking in a nice wage at Barca and didn't seemed too pushed trying to break into the team. PASS

The Moldy Gowl

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I wonder would people be so keen on signing Vidal if he looked like Luke Chadwick?

Do you think he would be half as good and be picked if he didn't have his fashionable beard and hair?

He might be getting over rated because of his sun kissed Adonis like skin.

Larry Wildman

ElChe32 wrote: »

No thanks, was sitting on his hole soaking in a nice wage at Barca and didn't seemed too pushed trying to break into the team. PASS

As opposed to the oodles of quality we have at the moment...

Alex Song would improve us. Gazza would probably improve us at this stage.

ElChe32

Larry Wildman wrote: »

As opposed to the oodles of quality we have at the moment...

Alex Song would improve us. Gazza would probably improve us at this stage.

Which isn't saying much about our midfield. We need players that are proven starters who are driven to succeed...not just be a squad player.

DM_7

Larry Wildman wrote: »

It's fair to say that our summer transfer window has been calamitous (to date).

We have a squad that has a good chance (with Van Gaal at the helm) of finishing top four, but we should forget about the title.

In order for us to compete with City and Chelsea, transformational signings like Vidal and Hummels are required.

Thank **** De Gea started playing well :P

We don't need another season started with talk of things being a calamaty

Liam O

bucketybuck wrote: »

Just noticed that the community shield is on Sunday.

Its here, the new season has arrived, and we will be starting the season with Cleverley and Valencia.

I haven't for one second doubted that United would be starting the season with Cleverley and Valencia. Is it something that LVG said he wouldn't do?

Will I Amnt

Song is a good player. It's not like anyone could stroll into that Barca midfield. He is an upgrade on what United have in midfield anyway.
If it's a choice between Song and Herrera or Cleverley and Herrera then somebody grab that man a pen.

Larry Wildman

DM-ICE wrote: »

Thank **** De Gea started playing well :P

We don't need another season started with talk of things being a calamaty

I'm lost? Is there an in joke that I'm missing? De Gea's one area we don't have to worry about at all. In fact, our biggest worry should be Barca or Real turning his head.

Re Song, he's 26 and available for £10m apparently. So we can swap Fellaini for Alex Song and a big bag with £8m in it? Sounds like a no brainer to me.

bucketybuck

Liam O wrote: »

I haven't for one second doubted that United would be starting the season with Cleverley and Valencia. Is it something that LVG said he wouldn't do?

Its something that I personally could not conceive any ambitious football club doing. That ok for you?

Cookiemunster

Larry Wildman wrote: »

I'm lost? Is there an in joke that I'm missing? De Gea's one area we don't have to worry about at all. In fact, our biggest worry should be Barca or Real turning his head.

Re Song, he's 26 and available for £10m apparently. So we can swap Fellaini for Alex Song and a big bag with £8m in it? Sounds like a no brainer to me.

It's not. Barca just signed Bravo and Ter Stegen and Real just signed Navas. Neither will be looking for a keeper any time soon.

Larry Wildman

Cookiemunster wrote: »

It's not. Barca just signed Bravo and Ter Stegen and Real just signed Navas. Neither will be looking for a keeper any time soon.

I wouldn't be so sure.

I would be shocked if the heir apparent to the Spanish No 1's position isn't targeted by Spain's big two at some point.

Maximus Alexander

Larry Wildman wrote: »

I'm lost? Is there an in joke that I'm missing? De Gea's one area we don't have to worry about at all. In fact, our biggest worry should be Barca or Real turning his head.

I think we're all just glad that he came good. It was touch and go in his first season, he was flapping at crosses, players were taking hail Mary shots at him, he was the biggest joke in English football and signing him looked like a calamitous error.

Thankfully, he completely turned it around somehow.

Larry Wildman

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I think we're all just glad that he came good. It was touch and go in his first season, he was flapping at crosses, players were taking hail Mary shots at him, he was the biggest joke in English football and signing him looked like a calamitous error.

Thankfully, he completely turned it around somehow.

Sure he was young - That was to be expected. He clearly had something. He's one of our few truly world class players. The Barca / Real thing worries me though.

As does this kind of thing:

http://www.squawka.com/news/david-de-geas-girlfriend-edurne-garcia-admits-she-would-like-him-to-move-back-to-spain/152945

Whatsisname

If De Gea ever leaves for Madrid or Barca

UnitedIrishman

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I think we're all just glad that he came good. It was touch and go in his first season, he was flapping at crosses, players were taking hail Mary shots at him, he was the biggest joke in English football and signing him looked like a calamitous error.

Thankfully, he completely turned it around somehow.

To be fair though, I think 99.9% of sound minded people realised he was only a kid playing in a position that players tend to get stronger in through age and experience (and beefing up a bit). I don't think he was all that much of joke either. The skills/potential were definitely there for everyone to see, it was just a case of waiting for him to grow into the league.

Maximus Alexander

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

To be fair though, I think 99.9% of sound minded people realised he was only a kid playing in a position that players tend to get stronger in through age and experience (and beefing up a bit). I don't think he was all that much of joke either. The skills/potential were definitely there for everyone to see, it was just a case of waiting for him to grow into the league.

Oh I completely agree. I was just summing up the... prevailing opinion at the time.

beno619

ElChe32 wrote: »

Which isn't saying much about our midfield. We need players that are proven starters who are driven to succeed...not just be a squad player.

Better players than Song have failed to get into the Barca side.

QikBax

I don't think Arsenal fans were too dissapointed to see Song go.

He had a few great assists for RVP but he wasn't anything special outside that.

sky88

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Alex Song allegedly on the transfer list at Barca...he'd be a useful addition to our squad in my view.

We need do some business and we need to do it soon. Arguably it's too late already as the season starts in 10 days so any new additions won't be integrated into the setup.

A disgrace really - Another poor poor summer.

i guess you didnt watch him play in the world cup be better off with what we have

Pro. F

bucketybuck wrote: »

But thats the Tom Cleverley story in a nutshell isn't it.

He had all the chances in the world last season and never particularly impressed, some poor play and some rare good play.

Here we are in pre-season with the new manager, now is the time to make an impression before LVG gets the checkbook out and what do we get from TC? Nothing particularly pathetic, nothing really impressive.

Thats him, thats all we are ever going to get from him, he is bog standard average and never will be anything more.

We don't agree on his ability, but I do agree that he hasn't done much this pre-season and that could cost him in LVG's assessment.

As for last season, there's no way on earth that playing in Moyes' United could be described as "having all the chances in the world to impress". Cleverley struggled just like all the outfield players, bar Rooney, did.

Backstreet Moyes

Anybody hear anything about him some achievement.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/teenager-olympic-champions-school-record-7567937

DM_7

sky88 wrote: »

i guess you didnt watch him play in the world cup be better off with what we have

IMO Song would be a Fifa or Football manager signing. Has good attributes but in his head he doesn't have what is required.

He doesn't appear to have the mix of ability and discipline a man like Van Gaal will look for in a signing.

Ed The Equalizer

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Those quotes from Van Gaal are head in the sand stuff (if we don't sign anyone).

I'd argue that it's you who have your head in the sand by dismissing all possibility of a title challenge if we don't sign anyone.

LVG has the experience of winning the league in unexpected circumstances. He did it with AZ in Holland, winning by 11 points having finished 11th the season before. Winning the Champions League with such a young Ajax team was pretty unlikely too.

Maybe his head is so far in the sand that he'll convince the players to put their heads there too and believe along with him.

Winning the title is unlikely enough, but definitely possible. It happened with the kids in 95/96 and could happen again.

All I can say is thank f*ck LVG has his head in the sand, after last year it's a breath of fresh air.

Kirby

Taok wrote: »

All I can say is thank f*ck LVG has his head in the sand, after last year it's a breath of fresh air.

I think you'll find it's a mouth full of sand.

RichFTW

Song was a disgrace in the world cup. That elbow in the back was nothing short of madness and he was absolute crap in all games. He is not a United player and I wouldn't want him anywhere near the team.

Xabi Alonso would be a great signing though if reports are true he is available.

Mongo

There's not a hope Van Gaal would go for Song after the World Cup.

bucketybuck

Pro. F wrote: »

As for last season, there's no way on earth that playing in Moyes' United could be described as "having all the chances in the world to impress". Cleverley struggled just like all the outfield players, bar Rooney, did.

My belief is that our single biggest problem last season was our dysfunctional midfield, all other problems stemmed from there. So its my opinion that had Cleverley performed anything like a Manchester United quality midfielder, we would have performed a lot better as a team, would probably have achieved fourth and Moyes would probably still have a job.

Carrick and Felliani are also culpable of course, but this is about Cleverley and he most certainly did have his chance to impress. We had no midfield whatsoever and he had the greatest opportunity of his life to stand up and be counted, to stake his place as a United midfielder, and he failed miserably to take that chance.

People will say Moyes tactics held him back but I don't accept that at all, Moyes tactics didn't make him hide from the ball all season. You think Moyes tactics would have held a Roy Keane back from making an impact? Of course not. Bad as those tactics were Cleverley could still have stood up to be counted, maybe grab a game or two by the scruff of the neck. Instead he did nothing.

Pro. F

bucketybuck wrote: »

My belief is that our single biggest problem last season was our dysfunctional midfield, all other problems stemmed from there. So its my opinion that had Cleverley performed anything like a Manchester United quality midfielder, we would have performed a lot better as a team, would probably have achieved fourth and Moyes would probably still have a job.

Carrick and Felliani are also culpable of course, but this is about Cleverley and he most certainly did have his chance to impress. We had no midfield whatsoever and he had the greatest opportunity of his life to stand up and be counted, to stake his place as a United midfielder, and he failed miserably to take that chance.

People will say Moyes tactics held him back but I don't accept that at all, Moyes tactics didn't make him hide from the ball all season. You think Moyes tactics would have held a Roy Keane back from making an impact? Of course not. Bad as those tactics were Cleverley could still have stood up to be counted, maybe grab a game or two by the scruff of the neck. Instead he did nothing.

Cleverley didn't hide from the ball. Moyes' management (not just tactics but training too) most definitely held Cleverley back and the rest of the United team. Roy Keane would have done a lot better in performing under those conditions. Roy Keane was better than Cleverley, I agree with you on that.

DM_7

bucketybuck wrote: »

My belief is that our single biggest problem last season was our dysfunctional midfield, all other problems stemmed from there. So its my opinion that had Cleverley performed anything like a Manchester United quality midfielder, we would have performed a lot better as a team, would probably have achieved fourth and Moyes would probably still have a job.

Carrick and Felliani are also culpable of course, but this is about Cleverley and he most certainly did have his chance to impress. We had no midfield whatsoever and he had the greatest opportunity of his life to stand up and be counted, to stake his place as a United midfielder, and he failed miserably to take that chance.

People will say Moyes tactics held him back but I don't accept that at all, Moyes tactics didn't make him hide from the ball all season. You think Moyes tactics would have held a Roy Keane back from making an impact? Of course not. Bad as those tactics were Cleverley could still have stood up to be counted, maybe grab a game or two by the scruff of the neck. Instead he did nothing.

Cleverley played the exact same number of EPL games the previous season when United won the league. Less minutes overall I admit but he started the same and subbed in the same number of times.

Moyes brought in Fellaini (Edit and Mata) last season so had actually improved the midfield numbers/options.

Moyes and his tactics were the key. Cleverley played the game a different way per the instructions he was getting. Moyes would have removed him form the team if he didn't follow those instructions.

I am not for a minute suggesting you are wrong to highlight the difference between what a Keane could or would do versus a player of Cleverley's ability or demand improvements in the players available in midfield.

I just have to comment on the suggestion that Moyes and his appointment was not the major failing last season. It was. A better manager would get better results from that midfield as Ferguson did.

bucketybuck

DM-ICE wrote: »

Cleverley played the exact same number of EPL games the previous season when United won the league. Less minutes overall I admit but he started the same and subbed in the same number of times.

Moyes brought in Fellaini season so had actually improved the midfield numbers/options.

Moyes and his tactics were the key. Cleverley played the game a different way per the instructions he was getting. Moyes would have removed him form the team if he didn't follow those instructions.

We will have to disagree then, because my criticisms also apply to the season before under Ferguson. Do you think he was any good that title winning season, the season where we struggled so much in midfield we had to bring Scholes back? Because I don't, and I guarantee my posts from the time would support that view.

In my opinion Cleverley was also given chances in that season that he simply didn't take, he was given chances and still never gave a performance that suggested he could nail down a first team spot. He did the same under Moyes, and he will do the same under LVG.

Technophobe

Cuadrado and Vermaelen to be done this week is looking more likely.. And then Vidal next week...

Stay positive!!

DM_7

bucketybuck wrote: »

We will have to disagree then, because my criticisms also apply to the season before under Ferguson. Do you think he was any good that title winning season, the season where we struggled so much in midfield we had to bring Scholes back? Because I don't, and I guarantee my posts from the time would support that view.

In my opinion Cleverley was also given chances in that season that he simply didn't take, he was given chances and still never gave a performance that suggested he could nail down a first team spot. He did the same under Moyes, and he will do the same under LVG.

I am not arguing with the idea of Cleverley not being good enough or that midfield was not good enough. I can still say his performances were better the title winning season of 12/13 and they helped United in big wins like the ones v Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal and City. In the latter part if the season his poor fitness caught up with him but his actual play was much better in that season.

Scholes actually had to be brought back the previous season where he started more games from January to May than he did the entire season in 12/13 so we might be remembering things a little differently???.


Anyway, I was really just highlighting the options available to Moyes were similar to a title winning season, arguably improved upon but utilised in a different way than how Ferguson used them. The way Moyes used his options generally was the key issue rather than specifically midfield options that resulted in a horrible season.

Backstreet Moyes

Technophobe wrote: »

Cuadrado and Vermaelen to be done this week is looking more likely.. And then Vidal next week...

Stay positive!!

Cuadrado if signed as a rwb is just a waste of money imo. Rafael is very good going forward he will relish this new system. It would make more sense bringing in a back up for Rafael. Cuadrado may be an upgrade but not so much of an upgrade to spend 20+ million on and continue to ignore cm and cb.

Backstreet Moyes

What is the story with Cleverley's fitness. He never seems to be able to last 90 minutes. It's not like he is an explosive box to box player who runs much it is puzzling.

GSPfan

Nuts102 wrote: »

Cuadrado if signed as a rwb is just a waste of money imo. Rafael is very good going forward he will relish this new system. It would make more sense bringing in a back up for Rafael. Cuadrado may be an upgrade but not so much of an upgrade to spend 20+ million on and continue to ignore cm and cb.

While I agree with everything you say, you have to realise Rafael is constantly injured. And that just leaves Valencia and Young as cover and no one wants that.

We also wont be playing 3412 all the time so tactics change and positions change. I trust Van Gaal knows better than us if he does sign him. Maybe he will address all the other issues along with signing Cuadrado.

Pro. F

Nuts102 wrote: »

What is the story with Cleverley's fitness. He never seems to be able to last 90 minutes. It's not like he is an explosive box to box player who runs much it is puzzling.

The myth that he couldn't complete a full match was put to bed last season. He lasted the full 90 in 11 out of his 18 league starts.

DrPhilG

Plus there's the fact that there isn't anything concrete that we are signing Cuadrado.

It's just the usual ongoing speculation that will annoy us all until September.

Backstreet Moyes

GSPfan wrote: »

While I agree with everything you say, you have to realise Rafael is constantly injured. And that just leaves Valencia and Young as cover and no one wants that.

We also wont be playing 3412 all the time so tactics change and positions change. I trust Van Gaal knows better than us if he does sign him. Maybe he will address all the other issues along with signing Cuadrado.

How much more do we spend thought without addressing the problems. It has been what roughly 100 million since January and we have signed one midfielder. Cuadrado is 20-25 million more and we still need a top class cm and cb. I think it is a waste of money.