Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 13/8

Coat22

sky88 wrote: »

Ive just always thought there will be a deadline push for vlaar which i wouldnt mind cause at the minute hes better than smalling or jones are.

I think this is probably one of the most realistic possibilities left at this stage.
I know there are 3 weeks left in the window and don’t expect United will move for anyone in a hurry if their hand isn’t forced ala Vermaelen but can’t see them signing anyone outside of the PL when push comes to shove on September 1.

bucketybuck

TheDoc wrote: »

People drastically underestimated this mans confidence in his ability to mould players, take them our of their pre-defined box and shape them into what is needed for his team.

And I think people vastly over-estimate this, he is just a coach, not the messiah. In my opinion you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear and if people think LVG is going to turn the likes of Cleverley and Valencia into players good enough for United then they should prepare for disappointment.

Coat22

bangkok wrote: »

but we also got knocked in the 3rd round of the fa cup so if we have a good run this year you would imagine that means more playing time

An FA Cup final appearance would be 4 more games than we had last season, and you’re assuming we get to the SF of the Carling Cup again (although we do come in a round earlier due to our “european rest”) – the domestic cups will more or less cancel each other out.

Al Capwned

Ron Vlaar had a decent world cup.
Villa are certainly a better side when he is playing.

But do I want to see him at United? I do in me hole - if Ron Vlaar is the extent of some posters', or the club's ambition, (not that I think he is) then I despair for our hopes of getting back to where we should be...

keane2097

bucketybuck wrote: »

And I think people vastly over-estimate this, he is just a coach, not the messiah. In my opinion you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear and if people think LVG is going to turn the likes of Cleverley and Valencia into players good enough for United then they should prepare for disappointment.

I think the point here is most people ARE prepared for disappointment, as it's reasonable to expect it to take more than three weeks for someone to come in and sort out the set up at United.

twam2008

Anything above 6th will do me. I know it's only preseason, but the difference in confidence after such a short reign has given me reason to be optimistic, at least I hope we will go in to games thinking we can win them,unlike last season which was just depressing.

duffman13

twam2008 wrote: »

Anything above 6th will do me.

Ah here we are not the 6th best team in terms of players so why would you settle for 6th or 5th. If I had to settle it would be for 4th but with LVG I think that will be HIS minimum expectation!

Al Capwned

Al Capwned wrote: »

Ron Vlaar had a decent world cup.
Villa are certainly a better side when he is playing.

But do I want to see him at United? I do in me hole - if Ron Vlaar is the extent of some posters', or the club's ambition, (not that I think he is) then I despair for our hopes of getting back to where we should be...

If he was signed next week it clearly doesn't mean it's the extent of the club's ambitions. It means he's available, he would probably improve the squad, and he would be decent enough value considering he's only a year left on his contract.

But the vital bit is, he's available.

s8n

This forum is finally starting to eat itself !!!

Cant wait for the season to actually begin to put an end to this madness !!!

Lets trust in LVG (lets be honest, hes a bigger improvement on last years model).

MagicIRL

s8n wrote: »

This forum is finally starting to eat itself !!!

Cant wait for the season to actually begin to put an end to this madness !!!

Lets trust in LVG (lets be honest, hes a bigger improvement on last years model).

When LvG loses his first game this place will literally catch fire. The beginning of the season is really the beginning of the end.

bangkok

lads relax, van gaal knows what he is doing. Can any of ye say ye know what his plan is or which young players he will give a chance to? Did many of ye hear about Reece James before pre season or Wilson/Lawerence before giggs gave them debuts last season? whos to say there is not another gem in the youths/reserves like a scholes or a beckham that will come from no where into the first team? yes we need another few signings this summer but if we don't get them its not the end of the world. United always have big plans and ambitions. Main goal for this season is get champions league football, then the mega adidas deal kicks in, the massive champs league money etc etc whos to say next season we wont break the world record fee for a player, Ronaldo comes home or Wilson goes onto be the next messi..... BELIEVE

homerjay2005

keane2097 wrote: »

I think the point here is most people ARE prepared for disappointment, as it's reasonable to expect it to take more than three weeks for someone to come in and sort out the set up at United.

Vidic announced he was leaving almost 5 months ago, they gave Rio the boot 3 months ago. Two massive losses that should have been first priority in replacing.

The "3weeks" excuse is fine in terms of assessing the likes of Young, Cleverly, Kagawa, Welbeck etc etc but for defence, theres no excuse to have left it go to the stage where we have 4 injury proned senior defenders left, plus 3 youngsters.

Any player coming in now is at a huge disadvantage compared to Shaw and Herrera who have had 7 weeks to get ready...new players will get 7 days.

Maximus Alexander

MagicIRL wrote: »

When LvG loses his first game this place will literally catch fire. The beginning of the season is really the beginning of the end.

I can guarantee a 0-6 loss to Swansea next week or else I'll eat a burrito on the couch, naked. That's a fact, not an opinion. :pac:

Coat22

Zoie Attractive Shortbread wrote: »

If he was signed next week it clearly doesn't mean it's the extent of the club's ambitions. It means he's available, he would probably improve the squad, and he would be decent enough value considering he's only a year left on his contract.

But the vital bit is, he's available.

That’s the thing most posters (and football fans in general) miss – player availability.
Vlaar / Vermaelen etc are talked about because they are available. Others might come available if you throw stupid money at them (David Luis) but in general the players that move are those who either want to (Vermaelen) or their club no longer need them (Di Maria). That’s why its frustrating to see the players that are available (deFrij / Vermaelen / Kroos) etc disappear to other clubs because a limited pool just got smaller.
Talk of Hummels / Reus etc is fairytale stuff. Dortmund don’t need to sell these so they are not available.
While Vlaar and Vermaelen are not Vidic and Staam they would strenghten United. Then maybe come January or next summer someone else like a Hummels would become available and we could think about it while they signed for Madrid or Munich. :cool:

Mikeyt086

I personally think we will sign Blind and another defender and that will be that.

Thats a fact, not an opinion by the way.

Ed The Equalizer

bangkok wrote: »

Wilson goes onto be the next messi

:eek:

KombuchaMshroom

MagicIRL wrote: »

When LvG loses his first game this place will literally catch fire. The beginning of the season is really the beginning of the end.

You think LVG is going to lose a match?

I really hope Blind is signed. Would definitely improve our midfield, and could cover Shaw at LB/LWB, and could probably play as the left sided center back when playing with 3 at the back.

MagicIRL

KombuchaMshroom wrote: »

You think LVG is going to lose a match?

Without question. I don't see us beating Chelsea, for example, or even City given the current CBs we have to play with.

I hope I'm wrong and we rival Arsenal's invincibles, but...

Cookiemunster

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Vidic announced he was leaving almost 5 months ago, they gave Rio the boot 3 months ago. Two massive losses that should have been first priority in replacing.

The "3weeks" excuse is fine in terms of assessing the likes of Young, Cleverly, Kagawa, Welbeck etc etc but for defence, theres no excuse to have left it go to the stage where we have 4 injury proned senior defenders left, plus 3 youngsters.

Any player coming in now is at a huge disadvantage compared to Shaw and Herrera who have had 7 weeks to get ready...new players will get 7 days.

No, they haven't had 7 weeks, they've had 3 weeks just like every other player who went on tour. Any players we might have signed from teams who got past the second round of the world cup would only be coming back from holidays now so would not have been involved in pre season anyway.

steoin

bangkok wrote: »

lads relax, van gaal knows what he is doing. Can any of ye say ye know what his plan is or which young players he will give a chance to? Did many of ye hear about Reece James before pre season or Wilson/Lawerence before giggs gave them debuts last season? whos to say there is not another gem in the youths/reserves like a scholes or a beckham that will come from no where into the first team? yes we need another few signings this summer but if we don't get them its not the end of the world. United always have big plans and ambitions. Main goal for this season is get champions league football, then the mega adidas deal kicks in, the massive champs league money etc etc whos to say next season we wont break the world record fee for a player, Ronaldo comes home or Wilson goes onto be the next messi..... BELIEVE

That's about the level of reasoning I'd expect to find on an Anti-Vax website, or a creationism debate.

Your arguments essentially boil down to well you cant prove a negative so I win and that's not even getting into the contradictions etc.

MagicIRL

Save your energy, steoin.

bangkok

steoin wrote: »

That's about the level of reasoning I'd expect to find on an Anti-Vax website, or a creationism debate.

Your arguments essentially boil down to well you cant prove a negative so I win and that's not even getting into the contradictions etc.

what?

SherlockWatson

I thought idiot season would finish once Moyes left, this place really has gone downhill over the last couple of years.


Even people who used to be sensible and good posters have completely **** the bed and turned into morons.

Where did it all go wrong!

The Moldy Gowl

bangkok wrote: »

what?

He means you are twisting it so the arguement is ''well you cant say what is happening so I dont want to listen to you''

bangkok

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

He means you are twisting it so the arguement is ''well you cant say what is happening so I dont want to listen to you''

just people are crying out for signings yet we have already made 2, a class midfielder and a left back, probably the exact 2 positions we needed. no point buying a player for the sake of it like spurs last year. loads of players are stepping up to the mark this year so far under van gaal. The very same players that won a league championship 2 years ago

Van.Bosch

BBC reporting Vermalen bid accepted from Barca, we pulled out as Arsenal insisted on a player as part of the deal. Wonder who? Nani/Chico?

The Moldy Gowl

bangkok wrote: »

just people are crying out for signings yet we have already made 2, a class midfielder and a left back, probably the exact 2 positions we needed. no point buying a player for the sake of it like spurs last year. loads of players are stepping up to the mark this year so far under van gaal. The very same players that won a league championship 2 years ago

It would be handy to have a fm editor in real life to see the players current and potential ability, way easier then

bangkok

Van.Bosch wrote: »

BBC reporting Vermalen bid accepted from Barca, we pulled out as Arsenal insisted on a player as part of the deal. Wonder who? Nani/Chico?

smalling

The_Kew_Tour

Pro. F wrote: »

Madrid's transfer policy is a mess. Of all the teams' who's buying strategy we should be taking inspiration from, Madrid would be near the bottom of the list.

Fair point and I accept that.

What I was trying get at more was to point out that they still are signing quality. A better example I guess is Bayern.

Getting real strength in dept.

We have become stale and new blood has been needed for a while. Big clubs have been buying to fill gaps while we have been hoping players step up to mark.

Im a firm believer in never been happy and always trying get as many good players as possible even if they might not be essential, once of course the gaps are filled also.

RayCun

homerjay2005 wrote: »

The "3weeks" excuse is fine in terms of assessing the likes of Young, Cleverly, Kagawa, Welbeck etc etc but for defence, theres no excuse to have left it go to the stage where we have 4 injury proned senior defenders left, plus 3 youngsters.

Defence needed to be assessed just like midfield.
Sure, we all agree that a new CB needed to be signed, and I'm pretty sure VDG was thinking along those lines too. But left-sided or right-sided, which is more important, pace or positioning, does the defence need a leader, are ther any particular weaknesses that need to be covered, do we need to buy a new starting CB or cover for the existing three, with the players available would it make more sense to play wingbacks or a back four with covering midfielder, are the players available flexible enough to play both or does that need to be bought, etc etc
It's not as simple as "buy a new CB"

And I doubt he told the scouting staff to go on three weeks holidays while he looked at the existing squad.

Nalz

bangkok wrote: »

smalling

Wasn't it reported they wanted either Jones or Smalling

Either way meh

Vic Vinegar

Van.Bosch wrote: »

BBC reporting Vermalen bid accepted from Barca, we pulled out as Arsenal insisted on a player as part of the deal. Wonder who? Nani/Chico?

It was mentioned already 2 or 3 times.

beno619

As much as some posters may hate the idea im fairly sure the Jones/Smalling/Evans succession plan for Rio and Vida has been in place a long time. The only reason another CB may be signed is because of the new system.

Coat22

beno619 wrote: »

As much as some posters may hate the idea im fairly sure the Jones/Smalling/Evans succession plan for Rio and Vida has been in place a long time. The only reason another CB may be signed is because of the new system.

It may have been the plan when these players were signed – that they would one day take over from Ferdinand and Vidic but there is no way its United’s (or LVGs) preferred solution now. VG is on record as saying he needs defenders. They bid for Vermaelen. Maybe its just extra numbers they’re after but I don’t think anyone believes they wouldn’t like to sign at least one top class CB before the window closes.

tupac_healy

Coat22 wrote: »

It may have been the plan when these players were signed – that they would one day take over from Ferdinand and Vidic but there is no way its United’s (or LVGs) preferred solution now. VG is on record as saying he needs defenders. They bid for Vermaelen. Maybe its just extra numbers they’re after but I don’t think anyone believes they wouldn’t like to sign at least one top class CB before the window closes.

Agreed, and if we are not bringing in experience in the form of Vermalen we need to do something else....

And quick

Robson99

bangkok wrote: »

just people are crying out for signings yet we have already made 2, a class midfielder and a left back, probably the exact 2 positions we needed. no point buying a player for the sake of it like spurs last year. loads of players are stepping up to the mark this year so far under van gaal. The very same players that won a league championship 2 years ago

Problem is there are 4 positions that needed filling. A center half and another
middle of the park player are still required. 2 years ago is a longtime in football. There is no other team waiting for us to catch up.

Nalz

RayCun wrote: »

Defence needed to be assessed just like midfield.
Sure, we all agree that a new CB needed to be signed, and I'm pretty sure VDG was thinking along those lines too. But left-sided or right-sided, which is more important, pace or positioning, does the defence need a leader, are ther any particular weaknesses that need to be covered, do we need to buy a new starting CB or cover for the existing three, with the players available would it make more sense to play wingbacks or a back four with covering midfielder, are the players available flexible enough to play both or does that need to be bought, etc etc
It's not as simple as "buy a new CB"

And I doubt he told the scouting staff to go on three weeks holidays while he looked at the existing squad.

Some great points there to be said. I was sure however that Vermaelen was going to join us though.

Its going to be an interesting month!

beakerjoe

tupac_healy wrote: »

Agreed, and if we are not bringing in experience in the form of Vermalen we need to do something else....

And quick

But who?

Cant think of anyone whos available?

bangkok

beakerjoe wrote: »

But who?

Cant think of anyone whos available?

every single player in the world is available, if you may enough money

Adamcp898

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AePWsCbAG8

kippy

bucketybuck wrote: »

And I think people vastly over-estimate this, he is just a coach, not the messiah. In my opinion you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear and if people think LVG is going to turn the likes of Cleverley and Valencia into players good enough for United then they should prepare for disappointment.

A fair point, but I assume the logic is Fergie was able to win a league with those players (and granted a few more who have moved on/retired since)
Moyes was crap and not able to get the best out of players but LvG will be able to get these guys performing at a far better level.....

At least thats the logic I think I am seeing in relation to LvG.

Maximus Alexander

bangkok wrote: »

every single player in the world is available, if you may enough money

Is that you Peter Ridsdale? :pac:

MagicIRL

bangkok wrote: »

every single player in the world is available, if you may enough money

Nemanrio

Glad we dodged Vermaelen tbh, always injured. I know of some arsenal fans who didn't fancy him in the big games.

newballsplease

EVERYBODY PANIC

Nemanrio

newballsplease wrote: »

EVERYBODY PANIC

With Ed at the helm,we are in safe hands. :cool::rolleyes:

TheTownie

Wilson vs Man City

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqXm9kykJxg

Mr.Crinklewood

newballsplease wrote: »

EVERYBODY PANIC

The Dusseldorf effect?

tupac_healy

beakerjoe wrote: »

But who?

Cant think of anyone whos available?

Dr Vrij was.... Blind is....

As was already stated, everyone's available for the right price, even Hummels

Pro. F

Coat22 wrote: »

Apologies its not the Sun

I'm not laughing at your source. I'm laughing at the fact that you trust any match report and that you would use that to asses a player's performance.

You admit that you haven't yet seen one game under van Gaal and the new system, and yet you still think you can form an opinion on player performances. You can't hope to be taken seriously.

Coat22 wrote: »

If Smalling plays 20+ games this season I’ll go naked in Brown Thomas window.

Jones might get a few more but I can guarantee he’ll give away at least 3 penalties before Christmas and this board will be calling for new CBs in January

You're a brave man making that Smalling wager.

Re the Jones prediction, all our CBs - no matter who we bring in, Hummels, Thiago Silva, anybody - will struggle if we keep up with this complete lack of protection and flat, static back 5 shape.