Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 13/8

Larry Wildman

beno619 wrote: »

I dont really understand this kind of argument.

Shaw is a good deal. £27m for a player at 19 and is already among the best in his position in the Premier league is good business.

If we signed Vidal for £40m most people would argue its a good deal, Vidal could go on to have trouble with is knee or only give us 5 years of service but that wouldn't take away from the fact the getting him for £40m was a good deal.

My point is that it remains to be seen whether Shaw is a good deal.

If three years from now, he's playing for Sunderland having been let go for £7m, will we look back and say "well that was a good deal"?

Re Vidal, the same applies. If he turns out to be crocked a la Owen Hargreaves, he can hardly be called a "good deal".

bucketybuck

beno619 wrote: »

I dont really understand this kind of argument.

Shaw is a good deal. £27m for a player at 19 and is already among the best in his position in the Premier league is good business.

Probably because you have changed the argument. The original point was reference Uniteds transfers being underwhelming and the journalists view that "...Shaw's just a promising youth player."

Whether it was a good deal is a different matter, it could well represent good value in the long term but in terms of Uniteds transfer dealings this summer an 18 year old full back could easily be seen as underwhelming, especially considering our needs.

GSPfan

irishfeen wrote: »

Ya not one journalist seems to know anything - it's like camp United has been totally shutdown and nothing is getting out - the difference from last year is remarkable.

Or no one knows anything because nothing is happening. Woodward out, VanGaal out, Nike out.

Just kidding.

Larry Wildman

Larry Wildman wrote: »

My point is that it remains to be seen whether Shaw is a good deal.

If three years from now, he's playing for Sunderland having been let go for £7m, will we look back and say "well that was a good deal"?

Re Vidal, the same applies. If he turns out to be crocked a la Owen Hargreaves, he can hardly be called a "good deal".

To be fair that applies to basically every transfer any team will ever make. You're always taking a risk, because the guy could get injured/homesick/not suit the premiership/become a degenerate gambler/decided to follow their dream of becoming a ballerina/whatever.


On the no leaks thing - there are always three parties involved in a transfer, being the two clubs and the player. I don't think Utd can just shut down all transfer talk by themselves. If there's no solid info coming from anywhere I'd be inclined to believe nothing is happening.

twam2008

I think some people just won't be happy no matter who signs, there was an argument that Herrera has no premier league experience, same can be said of Hummels, should we pass on him so?

Strumms

Whatever about the midfield where we still need to strengthen the priority should be the defence especially if we will be playing 3 at the back. We have lost huge experience in terms of Rio and Vidic and also back up in numbers. Jones, Evans and Smalling have had more then their fair share if injuries over the last 24 months. Who is in reserve ? M. Keane I don't think will cut it. Blackett has no experience on a competitive premiership level... Going by the historical injury record of our first choice 3 centre backs we could be really screwed at some point this season without additions at the back...

The general consensus is that we are 4 players short.. Two defenders and two midfielders, one attacking and one defensive...

For me..

Hummels and Blind / Vidal & Di Maria

Out : Nani, Fellaini, Amos, Anderson, Cleverley.

I'd be surprised if we don't sign at least two players before the window shuts, we know via the confirmation of the Vermaelen interest that we are aggressively pursuing defenders anyway. As for Vidal... God only knows

Larry Wildman

Zoie Attractive Shortbread wrote: »

To be fair that applies to basically every transfer any team will ever make. You're always taking a risk, because the guy could get injured/homesick/not suit the premiership/become a degenerate gambler/decided to follow their dream of becoming a ballerina/whatever.

I see your point, but I disagree because the two examples in my post are very specific. Vidal does appear to have a knee issue which we're aware of. If he breaks down after we sign him, we're gonna look very silly.

And Shaw looks promising alright, but what has he actually achieved? Nothing. He looked the part in a pretty Southampton side with zero pressure on them to perform. He's on the fringes of the England setup. The leagues are full of guys who looked like the next big thing. We've essentially bought a quality young horse but it would be foolish to assume that we're gonna win the Derby. Only time will tell.

Tippex

He got a 5 year deal out if them as well, I doubt United would have offered that.

It was reported that we were offering 3 years + 1 yr option. (until we pulled out)

bucketybuck

Zoie Attractive Shortbread wrote: »

To be fair that applies to basically every transfer any team will ever make. You're always taking a risk, because the guy could get injured/homesick/not suit the premiership/become a degenerate gambler/decided to follow their dream of becoming a ballerina/whatever.

In fairness though, it a far, far greater risk for any 18 year old than a 23+ aged player.

tupac_healy

on these comments from LVG that we lack a 'Ronaldo or Di Maria' type winger... if we got Do Maria, where does he fit in in a 3-5-2? cause it's not at wing back!

Strumms

tupac_healy wrote: »

on these comments from LVG that we lack a 'Ronaldo or Di Maria' type winger... if we got Do Maria, where does he fit in in a 3-5-2? cause it's not at wing back!

Never imagine him as a wing back ..He can play up top a la Ronaldo or in behind... Or even one of the central 3 if he was with two defensively enough minded teammates say Fletcher and Herrera. He is that talented... He had an amazing season for Madrid last year a mystery why they want rid..

beno619

bucketybuck wrote: »

Probably because you have changed the argument. The original point was reference Uniteds transfers being underwhelming and the journalists view that "...Shaw's just a promising youth player."

Whether it was a good deal is a different matter, it could well represent good value in the long term but in terms of Uniteds transfer dealings this summer an 18 year old full back could easily be seen as underwhelming, especially considering our needs.

Our needs a were a LB & CM.

I prefer Shaw over a 29 year old be that Baines or Felipe Luis.

Herrera also suits LVG's system better than Cesc imo.

Larry Wildman

Larry Wildman wrote: »

I see your point, but I disagree because the two examples in my post are very specific. Vidal does appear to have a knee issue which we're aware of. If he breaks down after we sign him, we're gonna look very silly.

And Shaw looks promising alright, but what has he actually achieved? Nothing. He looked the part in a pretty Southampton side with zero pressure on them to perform. He's on the fringes of the England setup. The leagues are full of guys who looked like the next big thing. We've essentially bought a quality young horse but it would be foolish to assume that we're gonna win the Derby. Only time will tell.

Well you're right on Vidal, buying a guy with a known, possibly career-curtailing knee issue, for huge money, would be a bit nuts. IF he passed a medical and IF he was willing to sign I think Utd should throw money at Juve though.

With Shaw you're paying for the fact you mightn't have to spend another penny on the position for another decade I guess. I think you're being a bit unfair on Southampton also, it's not easy to do what they did last season.

yabadabado

tupac_healy wrote: »

Laporte is 20, though he may end up playing CB...

He is a CB,he played played LB back a handful of times last season.

bucketybuck

beno619 wrote: »

I prefer Shaw over a 29 year old be that Baines or Felipe Luis.

So do I, I'm happy with the choice of Shaw, but we have to have realistic expectations regarding him.

Paul Tergat

Just a reminder that Phil Jones is only 22

Adamcp898

tupac_healy wrote: »

on these comments from LVG that we lack a 'Ronaldo or Di Maria' type winger... if we got Do Maria, where does he fit in in a 3-5-2? cause it's not at wing back!

Tbh I'm still sceptical as to whether 352 will turn out to be our main system.

I think LvG will happily go to 433, 451 if he gets the opportunity and that is why we are interested in the likes of Cuadrado and Di Maria. I think he's a bit frustrated right now with what he feels is a lack of flexibility that the current squad make-up has led to and will try to change all that in the next 12 months.

Lord TSC

If his long term aim is to move towards 4-3-3 as well, it's likely we wouldn't need 2 new CBs long term, just the one, right? As in, ideally, we'd move towards...

De Gea
Raf - Evans - New CB - Shaw
Herrera - Fletcher
Mata
Cuadardo

---

DiMaria
Rooney/RVP

....with Jones/Smalling as our backup defenders.

Adamocovic

It will be interesting to see who VG will sign next. Hopefully it will keep some of the pessimist happy for a bit ha.
I'm not panicing yet though.

The league may be starting next weekend but with 3 weeks left I'm still confident VG knows what he is doing and will bring in the necessary players.

Adamocovic

Lord TSC wrote: »

If his long term aim is to move towards 4-3-3 as well, it's likely we wouldn't need 2 new CBs long term, just the one, right? As in, ideally, we'd move towards...

De Gea
Raf - Evans - New CB - Shaw
Herrera - Fletcher
Mata
Cuadardo

---

DiMaria
Rooney/RVP

....with Jones/Smalling as our backup defenders.

That's a good point, still would like to see Jones finally giving the starting spot as CB though. Can't see him getting picked ahead of Evans though if it came down to one spot left.

Larry Wildman

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Just a reminder that Phil Jones is only 22

A point well made.

I expect him to emerge as the best centre half at the club and possibly in England now that he doesn't have Moyes (and dare I say it Fergie) there to stifle his development.

brinty

Larry Wildman wrote: »

A point well made.

I expect him to emerge as the best centre half at the club and possibly in England now that he doesn't have Moyes (and dare I say it Fergie) there to stifle his development.

G'way ye fool
You've no credibility here
Has Vidal signed yet
Come back when he has and ye might have some

As for your bad mouthing Fergie ye can FRO, yes he made mistakes but over 26 odd years I think the number of trophies he won outweighs the mistakes he made

Rayne Wooney

He needs variety, LVG always says his formation is 433, Di Maria is versatile and can play on the wing or in a midfield 3

Some games we will need to switch to a 433 because a 3412 won't be effective at times against a blanket defence, the idea of 3412 is to draw the other team out to play passes between the lines and set up opportunities but if we played Chelsea and they set up like they did last season for example against Liverpool we won't get much joy, we will need good wide men to get around that

Transfer windows for United supporters are generally disappointing, linked with Vidal, Cuadrado, Di Maria, Blind, Benatia if we got 3 of them we would be title contenders and set up for a few seasons to come IMO, it's frustrating because financially we should be able to pull that off but we probably won't. I think there is a good chance we could get Vidal though and I would be over the moon with that.

Larry Wildman

Larry Wildman wrote: »

A point well made.

I expect him to emerge as the best centre half at the club and possibly in England now that he doesn't have Moyes (and dare I say it Fergie) there to stifle his development.

High praise. He's always been patchy enough when I've seen him play

Most Utd fans I know wouldn't be a big fan of him at all.

Paul Tergat

I think Smalling has more about him and think the will be the better player

FortuneChip

Smalling looks a lot closer to the finished article than Jones at the moment. He's more composed.
Jones gets injured more than a centre-half should, and a lot of the time it's down to crazy bravado challenges.

Adamocovic

My view on Jones hasn't changed. He is a CB but playing him in RB and CM have slowed down his development.

Given a full year just in CB and not rotating him into other positions I could see him becoming a big part of our defence.

EDIT: Also about Smalling, I would rank Jones ahead of him, only my opinion but I'm a big fan of how Jones puts in a big effort and his heart on the line at times. Smalling is good but I still think Jones has more potential to be a great CB.

newballsplease

Speaking to Dutch television station AT5, Daley Blind has denied he has spoken to Louis van Gaal about a move to Manchester United.

Daley Blind, asked about Manchester United: 'It's a world class club. I'm very happy here, but you can never promise you'll stay' (via AT5)


Daley Blind, asked about supposed interest from Barcelona: 'It would be difficult to say no to a club like that. But I'm happy at Ajax' -AT5



Barca are gonna get him aswell if Utd dont get the finger out.

shadowcomplex

Whatsisname wrote: »

Re. Cuadrado and Di Maria, do we think it's a matter of 1 or the other or would you say we are looking at both? I'd imagine Di Maria would signal a change to 4-3-3 while Cuadrado would surely 5-3-2 sticking

So who gets dropped, Mata Rooney or RVP

KombuchaMshroom

tupac_healy wrote: »

on these comments from LVG that we lack a 'Ronaldo or Di Maria' type winger... if we got Do Maria, where does he fit in in a 3-5-2? cause it's not at wing back!

In that interview he said that because we don't have a Ronaldo or Di Maria type that we play a different system to suit what we do have.

Like a few people, I don't necessarily think 352 will be our main formation for the year, I can see LVG's normal 433 being put in place if the right players for it are brought in.

brinty

Adamocovic wrote: »

My view on Jones hasn't changed. He is a CB but playing him in RB and CM have slowed down his development.

Given a full year just in CB and not rotating him into other positions I could see him becoming a big part of our defence.

EDIT: Also about Smalling, I would rank Jones ahead of him, only my opinion but I'm a big fan of how Jones puts in a big effort and his heart on the line at times. Smalling is good but I still think Jones has more potential to be a great CB.

I would agree with Adam on this
Play phil at cb for a whole season and he'd blossom and become that dominant player and leader he was bought to become. He has more potential than smalling IMO and a season where he's not chopped and changed about would be the making of him. But he needs an experienced top level defender beside him ala Hummels to bring him on

Would it also be a crazy idea to try and get Gerard Pique back. Have heard there's trouble in barca in the meeja with 2 new cb's signed.GP could be what we need.

Larry Wildman

I agree 100%.

I believe Jones is a gem who just hasn't been given his chance.

He's been messed around a la John O'Shea and is in danger of becoming Jack of All Trades, Master of None.

He was a collosus at Blackburn, and that was as a young boy. He's still only 22!

Wasn't Jones a defensive mid for Blackburn?

Blatter

rarnes1 wrote: »

Wasn't Jones a defensive mid for Blackburn?

For a while towards the end when they were stuck. He made his name as a CB there though.

Paul Tergat

Di Maria was brilliant as he shifted to a central position last season for Madrid. Someone alluded to it earlier but he could play as the most attacking minded of the midfield 3. His direct running caused havoc.

markc91

Would this be plausible???

---

Dave

---

---Rafa---Evans--New Cb

---

Shaw

---

Vidal

---

---

Herrera

---

Di Maria

---

---

Mata

---

---

Rooney

---

Rvp

---

Saucy McKetchup

markc91 wrote: »

Would this be plausible???

---

Dave

---

--Smalling----Jones----Evans--
Rafa

---

Shaw

---

Vidal

---

---

Herrera

---

Di Maria

---

---

Mata

---

---

Rooney

---

Rvp

---

I don't think you're allowed to put 12 players on the pitch

markc91

markc91 wrote: »

Would this be plausible???

---

Dave

---

--Smalling----Jones----Evans--
Rafa

---

Shaw

---

Vidal

---

---

Herrera

---

Di Maria

---

---

Mata

---

---

Rooney

---

Rvp

---

Illegal for a start!

markc91

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

I don't think you're allowed to put 12 players on the pitch

rarnes1 wrote: »

Illegal for a start!

Back to sleep for me :pac:

markc91

markc91 wrote: »

Would this be plausible???

---

Dave

---

---Rafa---Evans--New Cb

---

Shaw

---

Vidal

---

---

Herrera

---

Di Maria

---

---

Mata

---

---

Rooney

---

Rvp

---

Fixed :pac:

bucketybuck

shadowcomplex wrote: »

So who gets dropped, Mata Rooney or RVP

Whoever. Pick one. We shouldn't ever be concerned about dropping one of our big names if its the best thing to do, and to be fair to LVG I suspect he won't be afraid to do it.

Lord TSC

Not that I ever thought it was possible, but Dortmund have confirmed Hummels will be their captain for the upcoming season. Don't think they would do that if they even thought there was a chance of a bid being accepted.

JaMarcusHustle

GSPfan

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Has to be a fake.

Its an old jersey.

sigmundv

GSPfan wrote: »

Has to be a fake.

Its an old jersey.

Of course it's a joke with a picture of Welbz with dreads drawn on him.

Headshot

sigmundv wrote: »

Of course it's a joke with a picture of Welbz with dreads drawn on him.

That went well over your head

Saucy McKetchup

sigmundv wrote: »

Of course it's a joke with a picture of Welbz with dreads drawn on him.

I'd be fairly certain it was a joke;)

Lord TSC

sigmundv wrote: »

Of course it's a joke with a picture of Welbz with dreads drawn on him.

Whatsisname

sigmundv wrote: »

Of course it's a joke with a picture of Welbz with dreads drawn on him.

There's always one

sigmundv

Listen, I already said it was a joke and I laughed at the time.