Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 13/8

FutureGuy

Tangey99 wrote: »

I'm new around here (so take it easy on me).

Weaker squad...well yes, certainly in terms of centreback positions in a classic back four. I'm not sure the new "3-at-the-back" would have suited Vidic. And as for Ferdinand, a blind man could see last season that he wasn't at the races, he was embarrassed on a number of occasions, so would he really feature in a back-3 where mobility and pace are needed ?

But we definitely do need better class for those back-3 when he plays that format, and unless pre-season means nothing, it looks like it's his preferred format. Of the 3, I think Evans is the best of the bunch, Smalling always has an error in him, and Jones, for all his undoubted commitment and honesty, isn't exactly the most subtle of players.

One overriding positive I have, before a ball is kicked, is the amount of talk coming from the camp, about the different system, and players admitting the boss was right to criticise them, everyone chatting about trying to impress the new boss and starting with a clean sheet, experience counting for little with Van gaal,and a general sense that there is a definite plan, and a 3-1 friendly win against 'pool was a disappointment for Van Gaal. Van Gaal may be have that same ability as Ferguson to extract MORE out of players than is in them. By the way, if by some miracle Van Gaal turns Young into a good player, I'll be seriously impressed.

Compare that to last year, there was nothing positive out of the camp, no sense of players starting again, all the chat about how Moyes would handle Rooney, and whether the utd task was too big. Moyes, in retrospect had the ability to extract less out of players than was in them (and if Man u last year isn't enough evidence, I refer you to Everton last season without him).

I go into the season with a sense of excitement, knowing that we aren't a brilliant squad but based on the potential for van Gaal to do well, as opposed to last season, where it was a sense of trepidation that Moyes wouldn't be big enough for the job.

Hi,
I'm Futureguy and this is my favourite post on the Citadel.

Please post more often.

Thanks.

Son Of A Vidic

MagicIRL wrote: »

Welcome! Just remember this:

Keep calm and love Worship Pirlo.

Fixed the typo there.

cson

Re Vermaelen; for those of you thinking that AW wouldn't have allowed it to happen; he would have. The deal was however that Smalling came our way and LvG wouldn't agree to it.

That being said; I'm glad it didn't happen because he'd probably have been ideal in a back 3 for you.

Son Of A Vidic

Meanwhile, outside Turin......

TheDoc

Some interesting articles doing the rounds this morning, from what I consider proper journalism, in the sense they are good thought provoking pieces. John Nicholson did a piece on F365 this morning. He was very critical of the Moyes appointment from day one. The main point of his article is that while a lot of Untied fans(I'll include myself here) were blind to the obvious issues with Moyes appointment and how it would go so wrong, the same fans are being overly cautious now, muting "battles for 4th" and "4th is the target".

He outlines that if we should have learned anything, is how quickly a big club can change its fortunes rapidly. And that while fans with the blinkers on are being reserved and cautious, on the outside people are rightly looking at United as title contenders.

Have to say personally I would be " reserved" in claiming a stake for the title, in the sense of that last year was such a disaster, it might help to be a bit more realistic. But when you stand back and look at it, we are tunnel visioning on the "weakness'" in our squad, the need for a new CM, the need for a new CB. And we are somewhat forgetting the really good things we have going for us.

A new ball playing CM, a bright new LWB. A new system that will means teams having to adapt to our new play, rather then knowing how to deal with our predicable/legacy 4-4-2.

We possess the strongest strikers in the league, and arguably on paper one of the best attack lines in the league.

Had a quick check around the bookies this morning after reading this article, and in most places, we are third favourites, ahead of Arsenal and Liverpool for the title. RVP widely favourite for top goalscorer. A settled Mata now, providing service to a rejuvenated RVP and Rooney, could be seriously devastating.

I know we had a few pages back a little "whatcha think we will do" sort of thing, but I wonder if we are being so narrowing on Vidal, the need for a Cb and CM, that maybe we are ignoring the good stuff going on, and the possibility that we might actually be title contenders this year, rather then 4th place hunters. Obviously its all "having" a guess, but its interesting to read an outside persons perspective.

TheTownie

My hopes for this week.

Soups123

cson wrote: »

Re Vermaelen; for those of you thinking that AW wouldn't have allowed it to happen; he would have. The deal was however that Smalling came our way and LvG wouldn't agree to it.

That being said; I'm glad it didn't happen because he'd probably have been ideal in a back 3 for you.

Arsene would only allow it with a player in return, he wasn't interested otherwise. United would have paid same as Barce but he wanted to sell him abroad

Maximus Alexander

FutureGuy wrote: »

Hi,
I'm Futureguy and this is my favourite post on the Citadel.

Please post more often.

Thanks.

I had so many favourite shops on the Citadel.

Billy86

Tangey99 wrote: »

Regarding Vermaelen, you might say, if he is good enough for Barca, why isn't he good enough for Man U. (I just saw an €80M buy-out clause in his barca contract ?!?!?)

You can hardly say the price was too high, £15M seems a lot better value than the £31M for Shaw.

But also, I am reminded of a certain Barca defender Gerard Pique. He's looked pretty damn good for Barca since they got him, much more so than he did at Utd, he seems such a classy defender. Defending in the Premier league is an entirely different physical contest than (mostly) in the Spanish league, and his ability to walk out with the ball wasn't seen as important at Utd.

Vermaelen is 28, so if he works out for Barca they get about 5/6 years before he begins to get old and past it. Luke Shaw is only just gone 19, so we get about 13 years or so before that happens, hence the price difference.

Plus I think Shaw has a far higher ceiling, because Vermaelen just isn't as good as some think. At Arsenal he was caught way too far up the pitch a lot, most worryingly this also happened late in a lot of games when they were holding a lead or had a result they would have been happy with otherwise. He was offloaded in favour of Koscielny and Mertesacker who are both pretty good but far from special, and isn't on the level I would like to see from us moving forward. It's not that he is a bad player by any means, but he is not all that great either.

As for Pique he has looked good in general but has also slipped off quite a bit lately. It's not too hard to look good when you dictate possession as much as Barca did for his first few years there, but when put under pressure he has struggled a good few times. Likewise if Barca get back to dominating games I expect Vermaelen to flourish, but if they play closer to last season he may flounder.

Pique never really got a fair crock at Old Trafford though to be honest, he made some mistakes early but got jumped on like DDG from all corners, and entirely unlike say Phil Jones. That said, the moment Barca were back in for him we were never keeping him, and Ferguson may have known that which would explain why he didn't get many games (plus he was very young, only just gone 21 when he left us).

jimmytwotimes 2013

Another rival strengthens.... .

brinty

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Another rival strengthens.... .

Didn't get into the French world cup team, that tells me what i need to know
Citeh have overpaid as usual..

Delboy5

jamie jackson‏@JamieJackson___·;3 mins
As of this morning the understanding is that #mufc have no interest in Juan Cuadrado...




Wonder if this is because Barca is his preferred destination..........

Soups123

brinty wrote: »

Didn't get into the French world cup team, that tells me what i need to know
Citeh have overpaid as usual..

Same as Shaw really very over priced

bangkok

brinty wrote: »

Didn't get into the French world cup team, that tells me what i need to know
Citeh have overpaid as usual..

the reason they overpaid was due to the fact they got Fernando cheaper and the whole 3rd party ownership mess

Nalz

brinty wrote: »

Didn't get into the French world cup team, that tells me what i need to know
Citeh have overpaid as usual..

City had 3 decent players who didn't make the world cup last year - Nasri, Navas and Negredo.

They'll overpay but it won't weaken them

Jules.Winnfield

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Another rival strengthens.... .

One thing I do note from the Mangala signing is for all the slating we're doing of our own club and slow movement of transfers, nobody seems to have pointed out that it's taken Citeh an absolute age to complete this signing!

You don't just go out and hand over £40m and say 'I'll take one Hummels, please'
There is a lot goes on behind the scenes and an ever increasing number of parties to deal with for transfers in this day and age, sometimes they do get tied up quickly and sometimes there is a lot of back and forward between all the involved parties.

I feel confident (with no extra knowledge) that we will sign at least two more players before the end of the window, one of whom will be a defender. Lets all not panic and burst with irrational behavior... this is not 'rivals' forum, so lets not sound like a certain bunch of red rivals

TheTownie

bangkok wrote: »

we were in for both fernando and mangala but it was hard to a deal for either as fernando had 3rd party ownership so porto would receive not much of the transfer fee, so city decided to pay only 12m for fernando even though he was worth 25m but would pay porto 32-35m for mangala so they would receive all of the money, they were very complicated deals

TheTownie wrote: »

Where are you pulling this from?

Fernando had, at best, one year left on his contract. Some were reporting his contract was up this summer. He was close to signing a new deal around January but never did, probably once he got wind of City's interest.

Mangala has a complicated ownership structure. From what I have read, 33.3% owned by one party and 10% owned by another party. Porto possibly own the remaining, I can't say for sure.

I would love to see where your version of events are reported.

bangkok wrote: »

the reason they overpaid was due to the fact they got Fernando cheaper and the whole 3rd party ownership mess

I'll ask you again. Wheres your info on your version of events?

fitzer1982

As of this morning the understanding is that #mufc have no interest in Juan Cuadrado...

— jamie jackson (@JamieJackson___) August 11, 2014

Already posted above

Nalz

We will sign 2 more players I'd say

But when and at what cost? I'm just a little annoyed that a third signing (a utility player or a centre half) has not been signed.

Right now we've Evans, Jones, Smalling, Blackett and Keane with Carrick and Fletcher as emergency options I'd say. We need another solid name in there imo.

Who though?

Sorry to adding to the moaning and going round in circles trend that's happening in here recently.

bucketybuck

Delboy5 wrote: »

jamie jackson‏@JamieJackson___·;3 mins
As of this morning the understanding is that #mufc have no interest in Juan Cuadrado...

We don't appear to have much interest in anybody these days.

keane2097

Cuadrado would be a bizarre signing anyway

Ed The Equalizer

TheDoc wrote: »

Some interesting articles doing the rounds this morning, from what I consider proper journalism, in the sense they are good thought provoking pieces. John Nicholson did a piece on F365 this morning.

Here's the link:

http://www.football365.com/john-nicholson/9416657/John-Nicholson

The man is talking an awful lot of sense...

MagicIRL

I'm maintaining that no English journalist knows anything any more. LvG has had that door shut, or at least someone on the MUFC board has, after Moyes' shambles of a transfer window.

RobertKK

I think as United fans we should be delighted the Glazers bought the club and the fans can be shareholders in the club.
There is no ethical or moral problem with the way United is owned.

Look at the clubs who have taken money from Qatar via ownership or sponsorship.
Then look at what Qatar is doing in the world by supporting terrorism and it links along with Saudi Arabia to ISIS or Islamic State as they now call themselves and where children are beheaded, men crucified, women with their throats slit and others taken as sex slaves.

There was this disgusting story that Beckham would be backed by Qatar in a bid to buy United from the Glazers earlier this year.
I would find it very difficult to impossible to support United if United was owned by Qatar. Thankfully that rumour went away...

Ed Woodward and the money he is bringing in is possibly the greatest thing that has ever happened to United, it makes selling the club to countries that are terrorist supporters and who use slave labour in their country far less likely.

With all the complaints, valid concerns and what not which fans rightfully have, we can be thankful United did not end up in the hands of a nation like Qatar or other Middle Eastern countries.

I just think this needs to be said. One can look up and see the links between certain football clubs, their owners and terrorism.

nicklauski

So being owned by Americans, the same America who supply arms to terrorist groups is alright?

:pac:

bucketybuck

Taok wrote: »

Here's the link:

http://www.football365.com/john-nicholson/9416657/John-Nicholson

The man is talking an awful lot of sense...

I think he's talking an awful lot of Roy Curtis style nonsense, beginning with the complete strawman of all United fans thinking Moyes would be a success and then all United fans defending Moyes against the critics.

Quandary

Just out of curiosity, have any of the alleged well connected Utd journalists gotten confirmation from the club that we are interested in anyone?

The club are leaking nothing to the English media. I definitely prefer this approach compared to the embarrassment that was last summer. After Woodwards MUTV interview everyone was left with a strong impression that Utd were definitely bringing in more players so if we ended up signing no one it would make him look a bit foolish.

LVG has almost definitely identified his targets at this late stage so now it's over to Ed to get some of them in.

Missing out on champions league football again is not an option for us. The fact that we have less than 3 weeks to go to sign our remaining targets is disappointing but its not a disaster scenario yet.

kryogen

Tangey99 wrote: »

I'm new around here (so take it easy on me).

Hi Tangey99, welcome to the forum. Im Kryogen and I kinda run things around here. If you need anything come see me, but remember, don't come empty handed.

Regards

J. Marston

Delboy5 wrote: »

jamie jackson‏@JamieJackson___·;3 mins
As of this morning the understanding is that #mufc have no interest in Juan Cuadrado...




Wonder if this is because Barca is his preferred destination..........

Jamie shítting Jackson.

Always there to piss on United fan's hopes and dreams.

nicklauski

kryogen wrote: »

Hi Tangey99, welcome to the forum. Im Kryogen and I kinda run things around here. If you need anything come see me, but remember, don't come empty handed.

Regards

You used to. Now the lunatics have taken over the asylum

RobertKK

nicklauski wrote: »

So being owned by Americans, the same America who supply arms to terrorist groups is alright?

:pac:

The Glazer family aren't the American government. The Qatar on Barcelona's shirts is directly linked to the government of Qatar.
Azerbaijan on Atletico's shirt is nearly as bad...

Just saying...and then people wonder how Barcelona ended up signing players. Not making allegations but something to think about when you see how rich the financiers are.

DM_7

Delboy5 wrote: »

jamie jackson‏@JamieJackson___·;3 mins
As of this morning the understanding is that #mufc have no interest in Juan Cuadrado...




Wonder if this is because Barca is his preferred destination..........

I wonder if its possible that United were never in for him? I asked a few times on here and nobody mentioned anyone of note saying anything about Cuadrado and United actually wanting him.

It has all come from unreliable sources and even Fiorentina themselves looking to get a good price for him as far as I can see and using United who are linked with everyone to pump up that price. Of course I could be wrong so would be interested in seeing any decent links to him.

TheTownie

DM-ICE wrote: »

I wonder if its possible that United were never in for him? I asked a few times on here and nobody mentioned anyone of note saying anything about Cuadrado and United actually wanting him.

It has all come from unreliable sources and even Fiorentina themselves looking to get a good price for him as far as I can see and using United who are linked with everyone to pump up that price. Of course I could be wrong so would be interested in seeing any decent links to him.

DiMarzio would have been the most reputable guy saying it AFAIK.

http://gianlucadimarzio.com/news/cuadrado-lo-united-prepara-lofferta-la-situazione-e-il-barcellona/

nicklauski

RobertKK wrote: »

The Glazer family aren't the American government. The Qatar on Barcelona's shirts is directly linked to the government of Qatar.
Azerbaijan on Atletico's shirt is nearly as bad...

Just saying...and then people wonder how Barcelona ended up signing players. Not making allegations but something to think about when you see how rich the financiers are.

I was only winding you up Rob

DM_7

TheTownie wrote: »

DiMarzio would have been the most reputable guy saying it AFAIK.

http://gianlucadimarzio.com/news/cuadrado-lo-united-prepara-lofferta-la-situazione-e-il-barcellona/

Even that says considering a move. Weak!

Professional Griefer

Frank De Boer says hes struggling to keep hold Blind - from SkySports transfer centre

Sam @MaroucheSam
Follow
Ajax coach confirms Daley Blind is set to leave Ajax, the manager said ' he's moving to a big club '

If we do get Blind, I presume he'll be the last player coming in this summer.

homerjay2005

MagicIRL wrote: »

I'm maintaining that no English journalist knows anything any more. LvG has had that door shut, or at least someone on the MUFC board has, after Moyes' shambles of a transfer window.

well considering f*ck all has happened transfer wise since the Shaw deal, maybe there is nothing to actually "know" right now and its a case that the club are only starting to work on new targets now, with an aim to have something done towards end of the window?

they did call Vermaelen for the last 2 months and perhaps that was the only big deal that we were really working hard to close, before it ended last week? the Vidal one is anybodys guess, there has to be something in it, but if they club and sources are telling English media that its not happening, then of course some will print that - the longer it goes on, the more likely they are to be proven correct.

not having a go at you here, but ive noticed this summer that the bitterness towards the media and certain journalists really has taken over the views of alot of posters on boards, probably based off the amount of negative publicity our CE, manager and players got last season.

Lord TSC

The Ajax manager has confirmed Blind is set to leave the club apparently, and that "he's moving to a big club". Not necessarily us, but hopefully...

And meanwhile, people trying to order "Januzaj 44" jerseys from the offical megastore are being advised to not get a number printed on the shirt, ahead of rumours he's to get a new number this week..

EDIT: Quick correction, the Ajax quotes are apparently being taken out of context. Apologies there...

Rayne Wooney

Looks like City bought Mangala for around £42 million

Corvo

Has anyone solid confirmation of his quote? I don't think it is real...

Maximus Alexander

Professional Griefer wrote: »

Ajax coach confirms Daley Blind is set to leave Ajax, the manager said ' he's moving to a big club '

Waiting for the announcement that's off to Madrid now.

Lord TSC

Corvo wrote: »

Has anyone solid confirmation of his quote? I don't think it is real...

Corrected myself with an edit, but yeah, seems to be a misquote. Apologies.

Vic Vinegar

Corvo wrote: »

Has anyone solid confirmation of his quote? I don't think it is real...

Yeah i was thinking that too, can't see an actual verified quote (as yet)

Ed The Equalizer

bucketybuck wrote: »

I think he's talking an awful lot of Roy Curtis style nonsense, beginning with the complete strawman of all United fans thinking Moyes would be a success and then all United fans defending Moyes against the critics.

"When we said he'd turn them into Everton, the majority of United fans didn't believe us."

He's right, the majority of United fans defended Moyes against the critics - as shown by the lack of protest at Old Trafford.

As for the title challenge, only time will tell, but I can guarantee the other challengers won't be underestimating us like the many United fans he's talking about are.

Vic Vinegar

Is there a press conference today with there being a game tomorrow?

Irishcrx

It's becoming annoying again this season with all the players we are being linked with but no movement. Understand it's hard to sign players but given our need vs our rivals to sign players they are way ahead of us.

I do fear if we don't get one or two really good players in that LVG or not we will have another poor season. I don't think Vidal will happen at this stage or Hummels who is now Dortmund captain.

TheTownie

bangkok wrote: »

we were in for both fernando and mangala but it was hard to a deal for either as fernando had 3rd party ownership so porto would receive not much of the transfer fee, so city decided to pay only 12m for fernando even though he was worth 25m but would pay porto 32-35m for mangala so they would receive all of the money, they were very complicated deals

TheTownie wrote: »

Where are you pulling this from?

Fernando had, at best, one year left on his contract. Some were reporting his contract was up this summer. He was close to signing a new deal around January but never did, probably once he got wind of City's interest.

Mangala has a complicated ownership structure. From what I have read, 33.3% owned by one party and 10% owned by another party. Porto possibly own the remaining, I can't say for sure.

I would love to see where your version of events are reported.

bangkok wrote: »

the reason they overpaid was due to the fact they got Fernando cheaper and the whole 3rd party ownership mess

TheTownie wrote: »

I'll ask you again. Wheres your info on your version of events?

Since bangkok seems to be avoiding having to explain his 'story', I had a look around for info on Fernando and found this;



Compare that to the announcement of Mangala;

Confira o comunica na íntegra:

«A Futebol Clube do Porto - Futebol, SAD, nos termos do artigo 248º nº1 do Código dos Valores Mobiliários, vem informar o mercado que chegou a um acordo com o Manchester City para a cedência, a título definitivo, dos direitos de inscrição desportiva, e dos 56,67% dos direitos económicos que detinha, do jogador profissional de futebol Eliaquim Mangala, pelo valor de 30.500.000 € (trinta milhões e quinhentos mil euros).

O Conselho de Administração

Porto, 11 de Agosto de 2014»

Given the above, I think its fair to assume Fernando was wholly owned by Porto and thus rendering bangkok full of shít on this occasion.

Bannerman7

Its well recognized here that United need to add a few proven defenders & a midfielder or two.
For me its starting to look like last seasons transfer window all over again. Most of the Premier League title contenders have the new players they wanted in now.
We have very little business done, all we here is paper talk / gossip. I hope we are not going to end up "panic buying " like last season as time is starting to run out.:(

KH25

My gut feeling is that we will make 2 more signings this window. I think one will be Blind and hopefully the other is Vidal.

DM_7

Bannerman7 wrote: »

Its well recognized here that United need to add a few proven defenders & a midfielder or two.
For me its starting to look like last seasons transfer window all over again. Most of the Premier League title contenders have the new players they wanted in now.
We have very little business done, all we here is paper talk / gossip. I hope we are not going to end up "panic buying " like last season as time is starting to run out.:(

I doubt Van Gaal will panic buy.

He might well buy players that are not as exciting as we would like but that should be expected and arguably the smart choice.

Look at Jose last summer. He got Shurlle, Eto'o and Willian. Not exciting names. Shurlle was signed before Jose himself.

Then given time he was able to decide he wanted Matic, wanted Zouma bought up, he didn't want Mata. This summer he got Fabregas, Felipe Luis and Costa as he had more time to put in the ground work and select the players he needed.