Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 13/8

paulbok

Lord TSC wrote: »

Sky saying Sparkta Moskow are due 20% of any fee above 4m for Rojo, which seemed to come from whatever Sporting got, meaning a 16m bid would see them get pretty much nothing by the sounds of it.....I think. Wasn't clear if the 20% came before the 75% or not....

I don't know what Sporting expect to get from holding out on a transfer. They took on 25% of a player and had a 20% sell on fee.

NeVeR

FutureGuy wrote: »

I'd like him to stay as a good bench option, but I love the little fcuker and I'd be happier to see him play week in week out and be happy (if that's what he wants).

ya i'm the same way... It was the same with Ole all those years ago.. he's good enough to play in most teams .. but would be happy to sit on the bench.

Coat22

StarshipPooper wrote: »

I really wish people would stop using poor value transfers like Luiz as a yardstick for all future transfers.

Bizzarre how people on here think they know better than top executives at europe's biggest football clubs.

We might think Luiz was not worth 40M but the market obviously did. The lack of availability and the need by a good portion of the top clubs in Eurpope for new CBs set the market value hence he went for 40M.

I'd say Vidic to Inter on a free transfer is starting to look like the bargain of the summer

bucketybuck

NeVeR wrote: »

What do people make of the rumors that Javier Hernández's will move to Juve as part of a swap deal for Vidal.

I know it's old news.. but how do people feel about Hernández leaving ? -- While I don't think he'd get to start many games he was ( the majority of the time ) a great sub to bring on and change the game.

We should have been whoring him out months ago and hoping to maximise the revenue from his sale.

I think he is a fantastic player who will be a bargain for some club, but he simply isn't going to get gametime this season. Make the call on that and just try to get him sold.

Larry Wildman

Coat22 wrote: »

Bizzarre how people on here think they know better than top executives at europe's biggest football clubs.

We might think Luiz was not worth 40M but the market obviously did. The lack of availability and the need by a good portion of the top clubs in Eurpope for new CBs set the market value hence he went for 40M.

I'd say Vidic to Inter on a free transfer is starting to look like the bargain of the summer

Wasn't it £50m? There's also an assumption in there that Luiz is a top class centre half...he isn't.

It was some bit of business by Chelsea.

Coat22

beakerjoe wrote: »

If it goes through Sporting will get F all money from this. God I hate these third party owners. Scum, sub human scum.

I presume SL wouldn't have been able to afford to buy 100% of him so if owning 25% means they were able to use the player for a couple of season but won't make much on the resale then so be it.

Be like Ferguson and his horse really....

homerjay2005

keane2097 wrote: »

My point is that if people are willing to believe the guff Tancredi Palmeri is dribbling out then if anything they're far too credulous about journalists. Certainly Mitch's wailing about "the cynicism and dismissal of every football journalist" is bizarro in that light.

or maybe, just maybe the likes of Mitch (and myself) think people like Delaney deserve credit, but Palmeri doesnt? in fact, i couldnt tell you 3 things that Palmeri has said about the club this summer, as i tend to ignore him.

if you think Delaney is just guessing, then thats your opinion. doesnt mean you are right though.

Mitch Connor

keane2097 wrote: »

Realistically, the context is that everyone finds articles that say the things they already believe as more credible.

My point is that if people are willing to believe the guff Tancredi Palmeri is dribbling out then if anything they're far too credulous about journalists. Certainly Mitch's wailing about "the cynicism and dismissal of every football journalist" is bizarro in that light.

I made the point a few days ago that credible stories and conjecture are pretty easy to distinguish between in the context of a BBC report on Rojo, think it's pretty clear yourself and many others on this thread are happy to believe whatever story happens to agree with you is coming directly from the club, while being more sensible about the rest.

In this case you seem to think that someone clued in has told Miguel that LVG is getting pissed off. I would have it as a lot more likely that Miguel hasn't been told that by anyone and is just making a reasonable guess.

There seems to be a suspension of critical thinking whenever an article is published that agrees with the guesswork of people on this thread.

Whatever about our differing opinions on Miguel's ethics (I stand by my opinion that he is not a liar, which you are within your rights to disagree with, I suppose) - are you under the impression I treat all football journo's the same way - your post implies (to my reading of it anyway) that I would defend Tancredi whatever his name is in the same way.

To be clear.... that is not the case.

There are journo's I would trust - and those I wouldn't pay any attention to at all.

Even of those I trust, I believe there will be occassions where they report information given to them by the club or a source at the club, which in the end either isn't true or doesn't pan out as said. The critical thing here is that I believe they have will have written their pieces in good faith. Jackson, Ogden, Ducker, Ladyman and Miguel - I would always assume their articles to be written in good faith regarding United. And I would consider some of them, again, to be more likely to have the right story rather than be running a bluff from a source.

EDIT: I see you edited your post to make it quite clear that you think I treat people like Tancredi with equal respect as Ducker et al... FFS.

My post regarding the cynicism and dismissal of ALL football journalists was with respect to the fact people on this thread treat all people writing or commenting on football in the exact same manner - that no one knows any more about the workings of the game than they do. That Every journo, whether they are writing for an estabished daily, or multinational media presence, or looking for retweets on twitter for their personal webpage hits - is the same, that they are all liars making up transfer stories off the top of their head without any actual insight. that is bollix imo. There are journo's who do have good lines at clubs and treating them the same as everyone else is just sticking your head in the sand.

beakerjoe

Coat22 wrote: »

Bizzarre how people on here think they know better than top executives at europe's biggest football clubs.

We might think Luiz was not worth 40M but the market obviously did. The lack of availability and the need by a good portion of the top clubs in Eurpope for new CBs set the market value hence he went for 40M.

I'd say Vidic to Inter on a free transfer is starting to look like the bargain of the summer

In fairness Id say most people believe Chelsea made the transfer of the summer selling Luiz. Hes no where near worth what PSG paid for him. Id think Paris have more money than transfer savy after that transfer.

Coat22

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Wasn't it £50m? There's also an assumption in there that Luiz is a top class centre half...he isn't.

It was some bit of business by Chelsea.

Whatever it was - it was the price the market deemed the player worth for whatever reason (time left on contract, age, commercial value etc)

shadowcomplex

I think luis would be grand as one of 3 centre backsin the 343 formation

Lucas Hood

I think Hernandez' game changing abilities are greatly exaggerated, If United need a goal late on I want someone to come who can create chances for themselves out of nothing instead of relying on other players putting the ball onto their head/foot inside the box.

I'd honestly rather James Wilson being brought on as sub instead of Hernandez.

Nolars

Lucas Hood wrote: »

I think Hernandez' game changing abilities are greatly exaggerated, If United need a goal late on I want someone to come who can create chances from themselves out of nothing instead of relying on other players putting the ball onto their head/foot inside the box.

I'd honestly rather James Wilson being brought on as sub instead of Hernandez.

Thatsusually why you have wingers and midfielders who can create in a team. Hernandez is a great finisher and not many as good around.

thelad95

Lucas Hood wrote: »

I'd honestly rather James Wilson being brought on as sub instead of Hernandez.

Ah Jaysus.

Larry Wildman

Hernandez' abilities are exaggerated in fans' minds (my own included) because he's such a likeable guy.

He's an excellent finisher but his all round game isn't up to scratch. He isn't in Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's class in my view.

We should allow him to leave, as much for his sake as for our own. And if it helps to land Vidal, that's great. Wherever he goes, I wish him well. Dare I say it, his middle class background probably contributes to his likeability...

homerjay2005

Bugatti wrote: »

I'll ask you again so since you may have missed my post last night...

i didnt reply to you as you didnt ask me any question or gave me impression you were asking one.

what exactly are you asking?

Vic Vinegar

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Dare I say it, his middle class background probably contributes to his likeability...

What a strange thing to say.

twam2008

With all the angst going on I keep forgetting the football is back at the weekend. Woohoo.

Lord TSC

Quotes going round from Juvi coach saying Vidal will remain a Juventus player this season

Larry Wildman

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

What a strange thing to say.

Not really.

Chicarito strikes me as a very "nice" happy go lucky fella who seems genuinely happy to be a professional footballer. He has none of the angst or snarling nastiness that one sees regularly.

Is there anything different about Chicharito? He went to private school and comes from a wealthy background.

Just an observation.

Adamcp898

If and when we don't get Vidal, do people think we'll try and sign another CM? And if so who?

Carvalho is the easy link to make but not convinced myself about it tbh.

NeVeR

Lord TSC wrote: »

Quotes going round from Juvi coach saying Vidal will remain a Juventus player this season

Coat22

Lord TSC wrote: »

Quotes going round from Juvi coach saying Vidal will remain a Juventus player this season

Thanks God for that - can we move on now and sign some defeneders?

keane2097

homerjay2005 wrote: »

or maybe, just maybe the likes of Mitch (and myself) think people like Delaney deserve credit, but Palmeri doesnt? in fact, i couldnt tell you 3 things that Palmeri has said about the club this summer, as i tend to ignore him.

if you think Delaney is just guessing, then thats your opinion. doesnt mean you are right though.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Whatever about our differing opinions on Miguel's ethics (I stand by my opinion that he is not a liar, which you are within your rights to disagree with, I suppose) - are you under the impression I treat all football journo's the same way - your post implies (to my reading of it anyway) that I would defend Tancredi whatever his name is in the same way.

To be clear.... that is not the case.

There are journo's I would trust - and those I wouldn't pay any attention to at all.

Even of those I trust, I believe there will be occassions where they report information given to them by the club or a source at the club, which in the end either isn't true or doesn't pan out as said. The critical thing here is that I believe they have will have written their pieces in good faith. Jackson, Ogden, Ducker, Ladyman and Miguel - I would always assume their articles to be written in good faith regarding United. And I would consider some of them, again, to be more likely to have the right story rather than be running a bluff from a source.

EDIT: I see you edited your post to make it quite clear that you think I treat people like Tancredi with equal respect as Ducker et al... FFS.

My post regarding the cynicism and dismissal of ALL football journalists was with respect to the fact people on this thread treat all people writing or commenting on football in the exact same manner - that no one knows any more about the workings of the game than they do. That Every journo, whether they are writing for an estabished daily, or multinational media presence, or looking for retweets on twitter for their personal webpage hits - is the same, that they are all liars making up transfer stories off the top of their head without any actual insight. that is bollix imo. There are journo's who do have good lines at clubs and treating them the same as everyone else is just sticking your head in the sand.

I've obviously been unclear as you both seem to have misinterpreted my post in a similar way.

To clarify, you two give credit to some journalists, others give credit to other journalists. The fact that the journalists people give credit to tend to confirm their prejudices is not a coincidence, which is why you shouldn't be surprised and start whinging when your pet journo isn't held in the same esteem by people who have different prejudices to you.

The shrieking gets hard to bear for those of us with no dog in the journalist fight.

Larry Wildman

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

What a strange thing to say.

Actually, I get how that could sound odd...apologies.

I don't mean that his background makes him likeable.

I mean that the fact that he is well educated and from a wealthy background probably contributes to his more rounded outlook and makes him more "happy go lucky" which then makes him likeable!

Larry Wildman

Lord TSC wrote: »

Quotes going round from Juvi coach saying Vidal will remain a Juventus player this season

Have faith...

beakerjoe

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Have faith...

Blind faith

merlinsmerryman

Manager says star player will still be there next season. Hardly likely to come out and say anything different. Bit of a none development really.

Delboy5

merlinsmerryman wrote: »

Manager says star player will still be there next season. Hardly likely to come out and say anything different. Bit of a none development really.

Indeed, not the first time hes said it either.....

homerjay2005

Lord TSC wrote: »

Quotes going round from Juvi coach saying Vidal will remain a Juventus player this season

dont see that anywhere....i think theres another "lost in translation" scenario happening.

Lord TSC

homerjay2005 wrote: »

dont see that anywhere....i think theres another "lost in translation" scenario happening.

Going off reddit, where the quotes are sourced as coming from a press conference....

TheTownie

homerjay2005 wrote: »

dont see that anywhere....i think theres another "lost in translation" scenario happening.

Lord TSC wrote: »

Going off reddit, where the quotes are sourced as coming from a press conference....

Original tweet from RedCardSports who are tweeting about press conference.

Red Card Sports @RedCardSports · 50m
#Allegri on @kingarturo23: #Vidal will remain a #Juventus player

homerjay2005

Lord TSC wrote: »

Going off reddit, where the quotes are sourced as coming from a press conference....

this is all i have seen...

Vidal is now training with the team, as of now he is still with Juventus

Larry Wildman

beakerjoe wrote: »

Blind faith

Danny Blind Faith?

Crimson King

Continental coaches barely have a say on what players their teams sign, never mind what players are sold from their teams. Just saying

bangkok

did someone just say 5m for nani?! :eek:

Adamocovic

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Danny Blind Faith?

I'd rather we sign his son Daley

Irish94

Watching Premier League years. Still can't believe Robin Van Persie plays for us. Madness. What a beautiful human being.

redbaron_99

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Actually, I get how that could sound odd...apologies.

I don't mean that his background makes him likeable.

I mean that the fact that he is well educated and from a wealthy background probably contributes to his more rounded outlook and makes him more "happy go lucky" which then makes him likeable!

Your posts just keep getting worse.

A wealthy background rarely contributes to a rounded outlook on life.

advertsfox

Irish94 wrote: »

Watching Premier League years. Still can't believe Robin Van Persie plays for us. Madness. What a beautiful human being.

Maximus Alexander

AAaaaaahhhh!! Why doesn't the ignore system also hide quoted posts!?

Is there a way to make it do this and I'm just being completely stupid?

beakerjoe

Larry Wildman wrote: »

I mean that the fact that he is well educated and from a wealthy background probably contributes to his more rounded outlook and makes him more "happy go lucky" which then makes him likeable!

Vic Vinegar

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

AAaaaaahhhh!! Why doesn't the ignore system also hide quoted posts!?

Is there a way to make it do this and I'm just being completely stupid?

There's no way of doing that.

Bugatti

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i didnt reply to you as you didnt ask me any question or gave me impression you were asking one.

what exactly are you asking?

Fine, I'll make it as clear as possible for you. Where in that article did it suggest that "LVG is getting pissed off with how the club have acted"? And why would "people have lost patience with Woodward completely" based on that article?

Professional Griefer

Atletico looking at Benatia now..

Rayne Wooney

Allegri said Ibra and Silva would remain Milan players before they moved, it doesn't really change things tbh

Coat22

John & Wes might be talked into coming back from Sunderland yet, maybe another £30M for a 30 year old Baines too

Son Of A Vidic

Larry Wildman wrote: »

..his middle class background probably contributes to his likeability...

Soldie

Is there any chance of Welbeck being fit for the Swansea game? I'd much rather him starting over Chicharito. I reckon Welbeck is going to have a good season for us.

Vic Vinegar

Soldie wrote: »

Is there any chance of Welbeck being fit for the Swansea game? I'd much rather him starting over Chicharito. I reckon Welbeck is going to have a good season for us.

Welbeck & Evans should be back according to Physioroom.

I agree, Welbeck is far more effective.