Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 13/8

Kylo Ren

http://instagram.com/p/rrm-A4HMdu/

Don't leave...

Lord TSC

Interested to see how Welbeck does in a front 2. Could benefit hugely from not being alone and/or being shunted out on the wing....

Copper_pipe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGMVaW8sE04

Skip to 1:20

Mitch Connor

Lord TSC wrote: »

Interested to see how Welbeck does in a front 2. Could benefit hugely from not being alone and/or being shunted out on the wing....

I think his movement and running is far more useful to the side, given the formation, than the style of Chico. I would also say Januzaj beside Rooney, if Januzaj was fit enough, would get my vote over Rooney. Both Januzaj and Welbeck would mean Rooney could push further forward and be a frontline forward. Beside Chico he would drop, and probably take space similar to Mata.

As it is, I reckon Chico starts saturday. Welbeck might be 'fit' to play, but the fact he wasn't involved tuesday would indicate a low level of fitness, and I reckon LVG is likely to go for a fitter Chico than a recovering Welbeck.

Adamcp898

Copper_pipe wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGMVaW8sE04

Skip to 1:20

£24 million for Rojo would be madness for what is essentially a rotational CB/LB.

RasTa

Adamcp898 wrote: »

£24 million for Rojo would be madness for what is essentially a rotational CB/LB.

Hence why we are only offering £16m

Coat22

Adamcp898 wrote: »

£24 million for Rojo would be madness for what is essentially a rotational CB/LB.

Especially when we have Jones / Smalling / Evans / Young

....oh hang on a minute

Tangey99

THe UK mirror today had a piece about HULL being interested in Welbeck.

Adamcp898

RasTa wrote: »

Hence why we are only offering £16m

Hence why I said ''would''

Professional Griefer

Coat22 wrote: »

Especially when we have Jones / Smalling / Evra / Young

....oh hang on a minute

bucketybuck

Tangey99 wrote: »

THe UK mirror today had a piece about HULL being interested in Welbeck.

Hernandez can be sold, but I see no reason for selling Wellbeck at all.

A young striker flexible enough to play anywhere across the front line and who is only going to improve over the next few years? If we were some scrub team that needed the money then perhaps we should think about it, but we don't need the money, so if he is happy to stay then we should be happy to keep him.

Lord TSC

I'm sure Hull are interested,min the same way most lower team tables are interested in buying him.

Doesn't mean he is for sale or he would want to go though.:pac:

Delboy5

This Rojo deal is just a mess i think....

Sporting release a statement

http://www.sporting.pt/English/News/newsfut_eng_futstatementrojo_140814_130475.asp

Adamcp898

Delboy5 wrote: »

This Rojo deal is just a mess i think....

Sporting release a statement

http://www.sporting.pt/English/News/newsfut_eng_futstatementrojo_140814_130475.asp

Complete mess, sounds as if the agent was told that if the right offer came in Rojo would be allowed leave. Sporting then decided to keep the player and told the agent this, but then Doyen went around to clubs saying he was in fact for sale, and so ourselves and Southampton have bid for him and been rejected by Sporting but Doyen want the player to be sold and take their money.

Reading between the lines, it sounds as if Sporting are in fact willing to sell, they're just worried about getting the short end of the stick when it comes to dividing up the money.

I did laugh at this dig though

m) We are worried about a fund, which manages millions and various assets, and its inability to count. To that end, 25% of 30M would never be equal to 25% of 20M, especially considering that Spartak Moscow would receive 20% of the value above 5M. We are surprised by the arithmetic failings of Doyen, especially noting that its CEO, Mr. Nélio Lucas, was able to transform a proposal of 20M made to Sporting, on 24/05/2014, into the acquisition of the player Brahimi for 6.5M to another Portuguese club, as has been noted in the public domain;

Soldie

I don't have much sympathy for Sporting Lisbon. Don't want to deal with potentially unscrupulous and money-hungry agents? Grand, then don't deal with them. At all. They seemed happy out when Doyen Sports ponied up for most of the bill when Rojo was signed from Spartak Moscow. Now they're upset that they don't stand to make much profit from any deal which would see the player leave. You have to take the rough with the smooth; after all, this is a business for agents and they're in it to make money, nothing more.

As for Rojo himself, I have to say I'm a little uneasy at the prospect of a seemingly disruptive player like him joining United, but maybe I'm just naïve. You can imagine the likes of Chicharito would be keen on a move to get more first-team football, but he doesn't resort to refusing to train to force a deal.

Earlier this summer I read that van Gaal usually didn't go for South American players as he felt they were often motivated by money more than anything else. You'd have to think these Rojo shenanigans are setting alarm bells ringing in his head.

NTMK

Delboy5 wrote: »

This Rojo deal is just a mess i think....

Sporting release a statement

http://www.sporting.pt/English/News/newsfut_eng_futstatementrojo_140814_130475.asp

This is why this 3rd party bull**** needs to go

its amazing how when its to their advantage theres no complaints when it kicks them in the teeth its not fair

J. Marston

Delboy5 wrote: »

This Rojo deal is just a mess i think....

Sporting release a statement

http://www.sporting.pt/English/News/newsfut_eng_futstatementrojo_140814_130475.asp

In light of the seriousness of statements being made and falsities being communicated, we have been forced to reveal that at the beginning of the 13/14 season, that same CEO sent various abusive text messages to the president of Sporting, including one which stated in capital letters: “MARCOS ROJO IS GOING TO THE [FOREIGN CLUB]” and that “IF YOU DO NOT LET HIM HE WILL BEGIN TO CAUSE PROBLEMS IN THE ACADEMY”. While being further clear evidence of the interference that Doyen generates with those who it calls its partners, it became obvious that this is a reoccurring tactic, with only the name of the club being altered;

Do we really want to get involved with him and his owners?

Adamcp898

J. Marston wrote: »

Do we really want to get involved with him and his owners?

It's a concern definitely how easily he seems to be led into throwing his toys out of the pram, especially when coupled with his disciplinary record.

However, under EPL rules I think we'd have to buy his ownership outright and so maybe he'd be much more amicable without Doyen in the way and if we got him to change agent.

Maximus Alexander

Wouldn't want to touch this guy now.

Rayne Wooney

You could make a faulty towers style comedy about our transfers

I'd say Rojo was 3rd choice, would we even have a 4th choice I don't know

If the third party are competely cut once the deal is done it should be fine.

NTMK

Zoie Attractive Shortbread wrote: »

If the third party are competely cut once the deal is done it should be fine.

they have to be they're banned in the PL

duffman13

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Wouldn't want to touch this guy now.

Not necessarily his fault, must be really strange when some company actually own 75% of him. More worried about him refusing to train however that has been refuted saying Sporting won't let him train.

As someone has mentioned if we buy him we won't have to deal with Doyen potentially telling him what to do etc

v3ttel

The situation was masked to such a degree that the person in question did not at any time speak in Portuguese, communicating at all times in the language used by the visiting club

It wouldn't be a Summer transfer window without some MUFC imposters.

If we want him that badly, we should just pay the extra £8million to meet his buy out clause, or move on to the next target. We need defenders urgently. Sounds like they've no issue with United at all.

KombuchaMshroom

This reeks of Carlos Tevez all over again.

Crimson King

For once I feel sorry for a player.

duffman13

v3ttel wrote: »

It wouldn't be a Summer transfer window without some MUFC imposters.

If we want him that badly, we should just pay the extra £8million to meet his buy out clause, or move on to the next target. We need defenders urgently. Sounds like they've no issue with United at all.

Historically we have a good relationship with Sporting which is why we probably haven't been named. Also I'd say we have gone about things the right way in that we haven't been accused of anything untoward by Sporting.

MagicIRL

3rd part ownership should be illegal. It's an utterly bizarre system.

duffman13

KombuchaMshroom wrote: »

This reeks of Carlos Tevez all over again.

I was going to argue this but actually your right it's very similar only sporting own a % of the player.

Maximus Alexander

duffman13 wrote: »

Not necessarily his fault, must be really strange when some company actually own 75% of him. More worried about him refusing to train however that has been refuted saying Sporting won't let him train.

As someone has mentioned if we buy him we won't have to deal with Doyen potentially telling him what to do etc

If there's truth to him refusing to train, that would be a pretty bad sign. But even if it was the other way round, when you look at the mess it's turned into I'd want to distance myself from it and move on to another target instead of getting tangled up in it if I were the club.

TheTownie

Meanwhile at Carrington...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWE_Xe-KIOo

RayCun

Sporting have a very good CB/LB playing for them. If they owned him outright and United bid, they would weigh up the bid, is it enough to compensate them for losing a very good player? Maybe 15m would compensate them, maybe 17m, whatever.
But since they don't own him outright, and they have to pay a sell-on fee, they are weighing up keeping Rojo on one hand, or getting 1 or 2m in fees on the other. From their point of view, they'd be stupid to accept. The fee would have to go up to 40 or 50m, maybe more, for them to make enough back to afford a reasonable replacement
And that's exactly the reason Doyen have this clause about being compensated for rejected bids. because otherwise Sporting would never, ever sell and Doyen would never get their money back

RasTa

I doubt Sporting can just terminate their player contracts with Doyen, seems very amateurish that statement

In light of the above, and without prejudice to the invalidity of the contracts agreed with Doyen regarding the players Marcos Rojo and Zakaria Labyad, Sporting SAD hereby announces that it is proceeding with the termination by just cause of the respective contracts with Doyen.

twam2008

RasTa wrote: »

I doubt Sporting can just terminate their player contracts with Doyen, seems very amateurish that statement

Exactly, and if they do, then surely they lose the players associated as well. All seems very convenient for them. Still wonder why, when the player himself is questionable, why we go for these kind of deals?

v3ttel

RayCun wrote: »

And that's exactly the reason Doyen have this clause about being compensated for rejected bids. because otherwise Sporting would never, ever sell and Doyen would never get their money back

Is there more to it than that?

If Doyen get 75% of the fee, even if the fee is rejected, why would they be so bothered that Rojo goes to United, that they'd impersonate United officials and send texts to the Sporting president?

Maximus Alexander

v3ttel wrote: »

Is there more to it than that?

If Doyen get 75% of the fee, even if the fee is rejected, why would they be so bothered that Rojo goes to United, that they'd impersonate United officials and send texts to the Sporting president?

I would have to assume that it's something like if Doyen choose to accept a bid and the club don't, then the club are obligated to buy out the rest of his ownership at that value. Or something.

It wouldn't make any sense if they just had to pay out for every rejected bid, forever.

homerjay2005

i still think this deal will go through, but why oh why do we only appear to get involved in deals that are just so f*cked up?

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

You could make a faulty towers style comedy about our transfers

its so tragic, that its actually wonderfully entertaining. opposition fans are getting a right laugh out of the club for the second summer in a row.

DM_7

v3ttel wrote: »

Is there more to it than that?

If Doyen get 75% of the fee, even if the fee is rejected, why would they be so bothered that Rojo goes to United, that they'd impersonate United officials and send texts to the Sporting president?

Does it say it was a United official or just an official of a buying club?

Could of been a pretending to be a Southampton official for example

Montroseee

These companies/investment groups that are involved in third party ownership make some serious cash.

Reedsie

So not only are Doyen entitled to 75% of any transfer fee, Spartak Moscow are also entitled to 20% of any fee above 5m.

Be interesting to see how this works out.

NTMK

v3ttel wrote: »

Is there more to it than that?

If Doyen get 75% of the fee, even if the fee is rejected, why would they be so bothered that Rojo goes to United, that they'd impersonate United officials and send texts to the Sporting president?

id imagine clubs have the ability to verify other clubs officials esp a club like sporting who united have/had close ties with

beakerjoe

NTMK wrote: »

id imagine clubs have the ability to verify other clubs officials esp a club like sporting who united have/had close ties with

Like Bilbao last year :eek:

RasTa

Montroseee wrote: »

These companies/investment groups that are involved in third party ownership make some serious cash.

Damn straight, they have Neymar and Falcao on their books, Janujaz too(agents?).

Also bank rolled the class of 92 film.

Their ownership list is here http://www.doyensports.com/en/players.html

NTMK

beakerjoe wrote: »

Like Bilbao last year :eek:

the "imposters" last year were working for united its just somebody called them imposters in an attempt to save face

Peist2007

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i still think this deal will go through, but why oh why do we only appear to get involved in deals that are just so f*cked up?



its so tragic, that its actually wonderfully entertaining. opposition fans are getting a right laugh out of the club for the second summer in a row.

It has always been like this at United. Sure, there have been big signings down the years but United have never been that savvy in the transfer market. Always making too much noise before a deal is done. United do not have the pulling power of a Real Madrid etc who can announce they want a player. United doing so just makes them look stupid ala Fabregas last summer.

I get the impression that Woodward is jumping around everywhere now trying to prove himself. And making himself look like an amateur.

UnitedIrishman

As far as I'm aware 3rd party ownership is illegal in the Premier League right? Hence the whole Tevez affair and Sheff Utd wanting them reinstated to the league for fielding a player that wasn't owned by West Ham. So we would own him outright after the transfer.

Only issue that arises here is if he keeps that company on as his agents after the transfer goes through. They make Paul Stretford and Claude Anelka seem likeable.

Kagawa

Just seen this in the united twitter account, grasping at any hope now for some quality new players;

@ManUtd: Please note: any new acquisitions will be handed shirt numbers that are currently vacant. #mufc

Coat22

This is the way I presume it works out:

United pay €16M up front for Rojo
SL/Doyen pay Spartak €2.2M being 20% of €11M (16-5)
That leaves €13.8M
Doyen get €10.4M (nice profit on the 3.75M they put up for the fee from Spartak)
SL get €3.4M (still a profit on the €1.25M they parted with for his purchase)

I think SLs main issue is having to replace the guy for €3.4M. They could enter into another Doyen like deal but their actions over the past couple of days would probably make most investors run a mile from them.

v3ttel

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I would have to assume that it's something like if Doyen choose to accept a bid and the club don't, then the club are obligated to buy out the rest of his ownership at that value. Or something.

That's exactly my point. If Doyen want to sell, and they are guaranteed their money regardless, why are they so insistent he goes to United?

secman

MagicIRL wrote: »

3rd part ownership should be illegal. It's an utterly bizarre system.

Blatter could look at this ............ like fcuk he will because it would make sense to ban the whole concept of 3rd party ownership