Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 13/8

bantee

The thing about Jones & Smalling in a back 3 is that they're not great passers of the ball so they rely on DeGea too much.

That's why I'm surprised we didn't go in for DeVrij, who showed in the WC that he was very comfortable on the ball and he took it forward regularly while Vlaar stayed back.

Another CB and CM urgently required.

Son Of A Vidic

J. Marston wrote: »

It shouldn't be up to the players to decide. Kick them out.

Absolutely. The opinion of an ineffective player should be completely irrelevant imo.

Blatter

It'll be interesting to see if LvG starts the next game with a 3-4-1-2 or 4-3-3.

tinofapples

Leaders we need.

yermandan

Still on the positivity couch, it's a lonely place right now though. Kew?

kryogen

Pro. F wrote: »

Anybody demanding CBs to be bought today after seeing that performance is a fool. Jones, Smalling and Blackett all did well in two different formations and with far too little protection.

Young showed why he is not a defender on that second goal. Imo it was a mistake from LVG to trust him at LB and I'm sure those problems will pop up with him as a wing-back too.

Taking off Hererra was a wrong decision too. The team lost a lot of fluidity after that.

Mata was lost in the 3412. I think we need one of the front two strikers to be a properly dynamic runner when using that formation. One of Welbeck, Zaha, Young or Nani beside Rooney/Chicharito/RvP could open the game up a lot more for Mata then.

Rooney misplaced too many passes, but he still scored a goal, went close with a free kick and had some very good touches and movement in the box. So I wouldn't be criticising his performance very much. People will make out that by being captain of a losing side that it's his fault for not showing more leadership, but that is just a dumb excuse to bash a player that they don't like.

Nani and Januzaj both did well in the second half, so that's a positive.

It's very disappointing, but it's not a disaster. LVG has said it will take him a while to get things going and I see no reason to not be patient and trust him.

Cheers you saved me some time here

redbaron_99

tinofapples wrote: »

Leaders we need.

Is that you, Yoda?

Lord TSC

Your Airbag wrote: »

Noting was coming to Rooney central. He was dropping back a lot. The service from midfeild was not there.

That doesn't change the fact his passing was awful at times; there was multiple instances of half-hearted passes that were easily intercepted.

Liam O

mufc1993 wrote: »

I miss the days when United would need a late goal and all the play was in the final 3rd towards the Stretford End. Them days you knew there was a great chance of United scoring. Didn't even think United would create a half decent chance late on today.

The players showing again that it's their spirit that is lacking when they go behind. They have the talent to turn it around sometimes but when it's not presented to them they just go into their shells. Kagawa, Mata, Rooney and Herrera should all have finished the game, Nani was trying to make things happen but got limited touches and no support.

It must have been Fergie who taught the players to run away from the ball when chasing a game but it just doesn't work, the lack of patience is astounding in the team.

The way every other top team do it is to keep the ball and run the opponent into the ground. Work hard to get it back and repeat until they tire or you have them beat due to being better than them. United try to force it through with very little pace, lose it and then stand off. It's been like this for way too long.

Fescue

Blatter wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see if LvG starts the next game with a 3-4-1-2 or 4-3-3.

I made the same remark in the match thread but I was surprised how a manager of LVG's class, was so fixed on 3-5-2. I think the formation should play to the strengths of the players. I'm not sure 3 at the back does that.

J. Marston

yermandan wrote: »

Still on the positivity couch, it's a lonely place right now though. Kew?

With this playing in the background?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxHInDptJKY

:pac:

redbaron_99

Somewhere David moyes is laughing his ass off.

twam2008

I don't get this, he says he needs defenders but is in no rush to make signings? Which is it?

Van Gaal in no rush to make signings
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Football-News/2014/Aug/louis-van-gaal-not-fazed-by-transfer-situation.aspx?newsid=14F7F23B-34C9-4B43-BBC1-BE7D718E2C0C&pageNo=1

ericzeking

Blackett was a big positive for me, I thought Jones and Smalling were really good too and stepped up, they didn't get the required protection though...I thought herrera did well enough and Fellaini did OK when he came on, I don't think we can rely on Fletcher though, I think his decision making has always been poor when he's required to take responsibility, he's grand as a secondary midfielder to do a bit of hassling and harrying.

Disappointed but not going to get carried away as there were quite a few positives in my opinion, we looked very much like a team going through a period of adjustment.

We need a few numbers though as our formation and tactics are being dictated by our injury list which shouldn't be the case for a club United's size in the first game of the season.

Lord TSC

twam2008 wrote: »

I don't get this, he says he needs defenders but is in no rush to make signings? Which is it?

Van Gaal in no rush to make signings
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Football-News/2014/Aug/louis-van-gaal-not-fazed-by-transfer-situation.aspx?newsid=14F7F23B-34C9-4B43-BBC1-BE7D718E2C0C&pageNo=1

He'll say "in no rush" so that when he rings up teams tomorrow, he doesn't get quoted a double price.....

thelad95

I'm literally lost for words. I hope a lot of the deadwood is f*cked out the door in the coming few weeks. Fellaini, Chico, Young need to go. Blackett and Lingard did their best but were out of their depth to be honest.

twam2008

Lord TSC wrote: »

He'll say "in no rush" so that when he rings up teams tomorrow, he doesn't get quoted a double price.....

Think leaving things to the last minute will mean we're quoted double figures anyway.

2moreMinutes

thelad95 wrote: »

I'm literally lost for words. I hope a lot of the deadwood is f*cked out the door in the coming few weeks. Fellaini, Chico, Young need to go. Blackett and Lingard did their best but were out of their depth to be honest.

I wouldn't agree with Blackett being out of his depth. He looked composed on the ball and seemed comfortable enough. Of all the lads I might criticise today, he'd be well down the list.

GSPfan

I'm delighted my opinion of Ashley Young didn't change when most in here thought he had become brilliant off the back of one pre-season.

He needs to go. Januzaj again looks like our one true game changer and thats a bad sign.

Nailz

Here's where I think we stand now after this game from what I posted in the match thread...


Today doesn't really worry me, I think we'll be fine, it just proves that we need players and sharp.

A left-sided defender and a starting quality CB are needed. I've been quite critical of Jones over recent year but I do think he has improved and deserves his place on the right side of back 3 with Evans in the centre. A central midfielder as well is necessary.

I didn't understand some of the decisions LVG made today, I agreed with Fellaini and Nani coming on, but taking off Herrera and Hernandez when both Fletcher and Mata were playing so poorly I didn't... But I think we'll iron out a few of these creases over time while van Gaal is still getting acquainted with the squad.

I think Fellaini, as it stands, is our second best midfielder, and deserves a starting place partnering Herrera. Mata lacked hunger today and was very lax, when Nani came on I think it should've been for him, dropping Rooney into no. 10 and leaving Hernandez up as the striker.

Young I thought played very well again today, I think he's been very good at wing back and I'd be happy to see him there over the course of the season, although I thought it was unfair on him to be played more defensively as part of the back four, and we were caught out because of that (another reason to bring in reinforcements).

Januzaj was also excellent when he came on today, loved Herrera's progressive play also.

Pro. F

MagicIRL wrote: »

I thought Blackett played very well. Jones responsible for the first goal was a shame. Really need a strong experienced CB to partner the other two.

Fletcher is a great squad player at this stage... but not a starting 11 CM.

If those two positions are sorted, things will be better. I think the team played well over all, but lacked that final ball in the final third.

No he wasn't. Smalling was marking Sigurdsson who was running in towards the corner of the box - Smalling's area - Jones was marking the CF running into the box towards the near post - Jones' area - and Januzaj was marking the man running towards the far post - Januzaj's area. So all those three defenders were marking the players who were in their zones. The goal scorer was a midfielder, Ki, arriving late outside the box. It was the job of our midfielders to cover Ki, not our CBs.

Although I would blame the overall team shape and the impossible defensive job given to our two CMs, rather than either of them individually, for not tracking Ki's run.

Adamocovic

I think this sums up being a United fan atm...

The_Kew_Tour

yermandan wrote: »

Still on the positivity couch, it's a lonely place right now though. Kew?

Im not even surprised with performance.

Fletcher was hopeless.

I thought back 3 actually did ok.

ericzeking

thelad95 wrote: »

I'm literally lost for words. I hope a lot of the deadwood is f*cked out the door in the coming few weeks. Fellaini, Chico, Young need to go. Blackett and Lingard did their best but were out of their depth to be honest.

Fellaini did very well when he came on, he won the ball back numerous times....Blackett had a very good debut, if young kids are going to be disposed of as out of their depth after performances like that then there is no hope

RVN10

Just when you think ash young turns a corner he goes back to the same old ****e , i do believe the fact that he said after the game he wasn't in a hurry to sign any one is to not to double the price of targets , however that that team today was lacking imagination and pace. Fletcher added absolutely nothing in mid and left too much space between him and defenders. Januazij and Hernanadez were terrible IMO. Jan just kept running at players and doing zero when he got the ball. I say if Di Maria is up for 50 mil thats what we should be paying we need the pace. The philosophy went out the window after 35 mins. With RVP yet to come back thats a positive. Young just needs to fcuk off he never changes. Not pissed off or surprised but worried if we don't invest.

thelad95

ericzeking wrote: »

Fellaini did very well when he came on, he won the ball back numerous times....Blackett had a very good debut, if young kids are going to be disposed of as out of their depth after performances like that then there is no hope

I don't want them disposed of, it's just unfair to rely on them as first team players at this stage of their career.

Pro. F

Liam O wrote: »

The players showing again that it's their spirit that is lacking when they go behind. They have the talent to turn it around sometimes but when it's not presented to them they just go into their shells. Kagawa, Mata, Rooney and Herrera should all have finished the game, Nani was trying to make things happen but got limited touches and no support.

It must have been Fergie who taught the players to run away from the ball when chasing a game but it just doesn't work, the lack of patience is astounding in the team.

The way every other top team do it is to keep the ball and run the opponent into the ground. Work hard to get it back and repeat until they tire or you have them beat due to being better than them. United try to force it through with very little pace, lose it and then stand off. It's been like this for way too long.

It is incredible to me that you don't remember how well United used to press, pass and run when chasing/finishing a game when Fergie was in charge. Right up until the end of his tenure they were doing that. They were the best team in the world at doing what you describe, never mind just the best in the PL. You seem to have completely blanked all those performances out of your memory.

Pro. F

thelad95 wrote: »

I'm literally lost for words. I hope a lot of the deadwood is f*cked out the door in the coming few weeks. Fellaini, Chico, Young need to go. Blackett and Lingard did their best but were out of their depth to be honest.

lol

Liam O

Pro. F wrote: »

It is incredible to me that you don't remember how well United used to press, pass and run when chasing/finishing a game when Fergie was in charge. Right up until the end of his tenure they were doing that. They were the best team in the world at doing what you describe, never mind just the best in the PL. You seem to have completely blanked all those performances out of your memory.

I remember it when chasing games, in later seasons however the team should never have been getting into as many of those situations as they did. Due to the slow play and players standing off and being too comfortable when not in the lead.

MagicIRL

yermandan wrote: »

Still on the positivity couch, it's a lonely place right now though. Kew?

I'm here with you.

PhlegmyMoses

Was a bit disappointed with Rooney today. Was leaving passes short and looked a little sluggish. Wasn't expecting this because he looks slim and trim pre-season.

We are seriously missing pace in our forward line. This won't improve with RVP either.

Edit: Just reading over the thread and see both these points have been made a fair few times. Ah well

Billy86

ericzeking wrote: »

Fellaini did very well when he came on, he won the ball back numerous times....Blackett had a very good debut, if young kids are going to be disposed of as out of their depth after performances like that then there is no hope

He also could, probably should, have been booked twice within 15 minutes of coming on.

Montroseee

Cattermole looking good at the Hawthorns.

PhlegmyMoses

Montroseee wrote: »

Cattermole looking good at the Hawthorns.

We shud sine him coz he is hard playur liek roy keen

The_Kew_Tour

Of all the players i be blaming it would not be Younger lads anyway.

bucketybuck

So whose fault was it that Sigurdsson had such an insane amount of space standing in our box for the 2nd goal?

Also, I never once praised Young for those meaningless pre-season games, but you have to feel a little sympathy for the winger getting abuse because he was told to play at full back.

Hococop

I'm just hoping we have 2 or 3 players in by next week

LostBoy101

bucketybuck wrote: »

So whose fault was it that Sigurdsson had such an insane amount of space standing in our box for the 2nd goal?

Fellaini. He was just ball watching and let him slip past him.

RichFTW

billyhead wrote: »

The problem is that I don't think these players will improve the 1st team. They will add depth and strength to the squad but what we need is top class players that will go straight into the 1st team i.e Vidal however I don't know where this defender will be got. Hummels would be ideal but hes not available. Interesting times ahead.

I think Blind would definitely improve the midfield and although I'm a fan of Smalling, Rojo would probably be more solid at the moment.

Bad day today but not a true reflection on the talent of the squad and those 2 signings would instantly make the first team better.

twam2008

bucketybuck wrote: »

So whose fault was it that Sigurdsson had such an insane amount of space standing in our box for the 2nd goal?

Hernandez, Young, Fletcher and Mata in my opinion.

PhlegmyMoses

One positive is Januzaj looks even better than last year.

Like Ronaldo* at his age, he will be infuriating from an end product perspective, but when this improves his potential is huge.

*Not saying he is as good as Ronaldo was at the same age

TheTownie

LVG post match

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBhIRvj9YYI

Lets enjoy being able to post youtube videos while it lasts. :rolleyes:

bmcc10

A wake up call, The pre season give me optimism but when you look at it the team collectively is very very average, It's not really a shock, Signings have to be made quickly where so far behind the rest it's unreal, My biggest problem with the current team though is a serious lack of a leader on the pitch, someone to keep it organised and take control it's just as important if not more than any signing we could make, Shame we couldn't keep Vidic, Anywho onto next week.

The_Kew_Tour

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

One positive is Januzaj looks even better than last year.

Like Ronaldo* at his age, he will be infuriating from an end product perspective, but when this improves his potential is huge.

*Not saying he is as good as Ronaldo was at the same age

A bright light last season and thought he was standout today

Montroseee

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

One positive is Januzaj looks even better than last year.

Like Ronaldo* at his age, he will be infuriating from an end product perspective, but when this improves his potential is huge.

*Not saying he is as good as Ronaldo was at the same age

DO you not think that Januzaj is actually better than Ronaldo was at 19? I certainly do.

bmcc10

Montroseee wrote: »

DO you not think that Januzaj is actually better than Ronaldo was at 19? I certainly do.

I said it last year but i think i was a bit overboard praising him, I don't think he is as good though we don't really know what will become of him, Don't even know his best posistion yet, A really good young player but Ronaldo at that age you just knew he was gonna be a star.

Reedsie

TheTownie wrote: »

LVG post match

At least we're back to having non-cringey interviews anyway.

Kagawa

I can't believe that really,

The squad has way way too many players who wouldn't get next to near City, Chelsea or Arsenal's squad. Nani, Young, etc.. we all know who they are, and to top it all off they're on crazy bloody money, we'll never shift them.

I cannot believe that Wayne Rooney is the Utd Captain, after the way he carried on he should of been f*cked out the door, not rewarded with a crazy contract and promoted to Captain. I will never trust him again, he plays well when he's after a new contract and then reverts to his usual sh*te after he has got what he wants.

We don't have enough quality first team players, which we will not be able to get in in two weeks imo, not if Woody couldn't manage it all summer. I think we may get a couple of squad players who will plug a few holes against the smaller teams but not against the top 5 or 6.

The price of any Utd target, which was previoulsy horrendously inflated just jumped by £10m or more (If they would be interested in joining, which they may well not be, we have hardly been shown to be ambitious this summer with signings)

I know there will be plenty here saying this is doom mongering etc, but if Utd want to be considered as one of the top clubs in the WORLD then they need to start acting like it, don't the morons running the club not realise that success on the pitch should be No. 1, not sponsorship. LVG will do well but if anyone thinks he can get this squad into the champions league then great, I can't see it myself.

No more giving players a chance, these bunch of wasters have been given more second chances then a Disney movie. Preform or get the hell out, that's how a big club should be.

RVN10

Am I the only one who thought januazji was absolutely awful , wake up lads will ye

Adamocovic

Im not too concerned about CB, mostly Wing Backs I'd like to see. No offence to Young/Lingard/Valencia etc they aren't good enough defensively in my view to play as a Wing Back. If we brought in a player who could play RWB, I'd be happy.

Strangely enough after all the talk about our defence it was the attacking that let us down. No real chances created with the passing.

Interesting week ahead. The next match couldn't come sooner in my view.