Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 13/8

Donnielighto

On the happiness thing for homer. I'm not unequivocally happy no, who would be after a loss and with the squad short on numbers. I am also not unequivocally unhappy, the club has brought in a good manager who will assess things before splurging, we knew this when we got lvg. Hell we knew this with Moyes too and despite the on field trouble I do feel he would have been very active the summer gone had he had the job and be allowed to spend with his signings giving him the respect he should have had. Getting rid of Rio evra and showing that fergie was running a threadbare squad was needed he's just been the sacrificial lamb. Lvg I trust to get signings and improve the play. I expect a busy window next summer with 3 signings between now and the January window. The Glazers have put plenty of money on the table for players it isn't their job to identity targets. I was very anti glazer but they have done a great job in as much as they can. Unless you want owner signings a la real and early abromovich Chelsea.


Tl Dr it isn't black and white so please stop framing it as such.

Vinz Mesrine

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Who said nobody else was interested in Shaw? What if the next season he performed in a way that attracted a lot of interest?

Mata was signed while the club were actively seeking a central midfielder. It wasn't an "either or" situation

Chelsea got their left back, as did Liverpool. Arsenal and City didn't need one.
He would have been available next summer, I have no doubt about that.

And Mata wasn't needed, United needed and still need a central midfielder. It was a waste of 35+ million which would have been better spent on a midfielder.

Rayne Wooney

I think Fergie saw Kagawa as Park 2.0 and used him accordingly

Will I Amnt

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

Chelsea got their left back, as did Liverpool. Arsenal and City didn't need one.
He would have been available next summer, I have no doubt about that.

And Mata wasn't needed, United needed and still need a central midfielder. It was a waste of 35+ million which would have been better spent on a midfielder.

Do you think United couldn't afford a CM because of Mata?

dahat

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I think Fergie saw Kagawa as Park 2.0 and used him accordingly

No, Kagawa was signed to play behind Rooney but then RVP came on the market.

Donnielighto

Larry Wildman wrote: »

The next fortnight will be huge in the history of Manchester United. With the current squad, we're likely to finish outside the top four. This could create a terminal decline in that really top drawer players will definitely avoid us (if they're not already doing so).

We urgently need:

- A midfielder

- A centre half

- A left back

- A right back

We also need another midfielder, another centre half and maybe a winger.

Utd have huge income locked in for the next few years. Players will come to clubs that aren't the champions. How do you think the top sides in leagues change so much? Utd also have a historical draw. We need intelligent spending or massive wads either will keep top players on the books.

Vinz Mesrine

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Do you think United couldn't afford a CM because of Mata?

I think it was a waste of funds in an area that didn't need strengthening.

homerjay2005

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Do you think United couldn't afford a CM because of Mata?

our transfer policy at the moment is a bit like walking into a brothel with 10k in your wallet and not being able to get an erection when it comes down sealing the deal.

Will I Amnt

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

I think it was a waste of funds in an area that didn't need strengthening.

That's not answering the question.

ShoulderChip

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

I think it was a waste of funds in an area that didn't need strengthening.

How different things would look if Matic instead of Mata was bought imo

Donnielighto

5starpool wrote: »

They've pinched billions of pennies from the club over the last few years though.

Their net contribution is in and around level I'd say due to their ability to get the best sponsorship around and I credit them with putting that in place.

beno619

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I think Fergie saw Kagawa as Park 2.0 and used him accordingly

People on here confuse facts with their own perceptions, Kagawa was a starter under Fergie and only missed a chunk of matches due to injury from around December - February and as already posted Fergie was gonna dump Rooney for him.

Vinz Mesrine

Will I Amnt wrote: »

That's not answering the question.

A central midfielder was needed, a number 10/left winger was signed.
That central midfielder wasn't signed in January, neither you nor I know the reasoning behind that.

Will I Amnt

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

A central midfielder was needed, a number 10/left winger was signed.
That central midfielder wasn't signed in January, neither you nor I know the reasoning behind that.

Not signing a CM has nothing to do with signing Mata, it went on for years until only recently.

Larry Wildman

homerjay2005 wrote: »

our transfer policy at the moment is a bit like walking into a brothel with 10k in your wallet and not being able to get an erection when it comes down sealing the deal.

We also walk into the brothel, tell the Madame that we have £10k in our pocket and then ask her the price of a ride.

bucketybuck

Adamocovic wrote: »

Hopefully we will get most of our injured players back soon. Welbeck and RVP were big losses.

RVP made fuck all difference when he came back last year and he will make fuck all difference to this team when he comes back this time. He will just end up isolated up front and touching the ball about three times a game, same as last year.

Our forwards are not the problem and so RVP is not the answer.

redbaron_99

Media have already latched onto the glazers out on twitter. Eurosport running the story. That escalated rather quickly.

kryogen

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Where does this Juan Mata love stem from? Jose Mourinho was happy to get rid of him. No other clubs were interested in signing him. And he hasn't done much since he joined.

Mentioning him in the same breath as Ronaldo or Gareth Bale is ludicrous to be honest.

A panic buy who is yet to prove whether he's another disastrous purchase.

The jury is out.

The jury is out on a two time player of the year (including a European Cup winning season!)

No other club wanted Juan Mata? Honestly, you couldn't make this **** up.

I'd say the people who have an appreciation for Juan Mata's abilities are most likely people who have watched the English Premier League for a few years and actually seen him play. That's probably it.

Has Jose ever alienated a good player in the past do you think?

homerjay2005

Donnielighto wrote: »

On the happiness thing for homer. I'm not unequivocally happy no, who would be after a loss and with the squad short on numbers.

the discussion had nothing to do with the loss as such, this was about how the mood was before and during the game - one of the worst and strangest i have experienced in 12 years.

apart from that (and maybe subjective to the fact we were losing), 10,000 + people had left before the final whistle and being honest it was probably twice that.

fair enough, it happened last season, but not in such an important game in what was supposed to be a new era. perhaps its difficult to gauge happyiness as you said and perhaps i should have outlined that better, but at the same time my point stands - our fanbase is really disheartened/disillusioned and pissed off.

kryogen

5starpool wrote: »

They've pinched billions of pennies from the club over the last few years though.

Do you need to read my post again?

Will I Amnt

kryogen wrote: »

The jury is out on a two time player of the year (including a European Cup winning season!)

No other club wanted Juan Mata? Honestly, you couldn't make this **** up.

I'd say the people who have an appreciation for Juan Mata's abilities are most likely people who have watched the English Premier League for a few years and actually seen him play. That's probably it.

Has Jose ever alienated a good player in the past do you think?

Mata is fairly useless now apparently if you believe what you read in this forum.

Vinz Mesrine

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Not signing a CM has nothing to do with signing Mata, it went on for years until only recently.

I'm aware of how long United have needed strengthening in the middle, what I can't understand is why Ferguson never addressed it or why Moyes spent money on Mata instead of signing someone who might have helped him keep his job.

Donnielighto

Larry Wildman wrote: »

We also walk into the brothel, tell the Madame that we have £10k in our pocket and then ask her the price of a ride.

Do you think other clubs didn't know utd are coining it until eds comments? We knew it cos of the required announcements for a listed company.

Cantstandsya

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I think Fergie saw Kagawa as Park 2.0 and used him accordingly

Makes sense, he thought Moyes was Fergie 2.0 because he was from Glasgow and working class. That logic isn't a million miles away from all Asian footballers = Park.

Montroseee

Adamocovic wrote: »

Call me delusional but I still think we are going to have a good enough season this year. Yesterday was a flat performance, we didn't create much real chances but saying that I'm confident that the team will be able to put it behind them. Hopefully we will get most of our injured players back soon. Welbeck and RVP were big losses.

This type of statement highlights how weak the squad is at the moment.

DrPhilG

Larry Wildman wrote: »

We urgently need:

- A midfielder

- A centre half

- A left back

- A right back

We also need another midfielder, another centre half and maybe a winger.

No denying that.

But do you honestly think that we will achieve even half of that? I know you're Mr "Friday" Positivity, but that list of requirements has been valid since the start of the summer and still here we sit.

There really isn't any sensible reason for it to have taken this long. We got back from the US 2 weeks ago.

Ps, I don't blame the Glazers. I would prefer that we had an owner who wasn't pulling a fortune out of the club etc but they haven't interfered with the team a la Abramovic, and they haven't withheld money, (4 x £30M players in the last year).

kryogen

redbaron_99 wrote: »

They've drained a lot of money out of the club though.
And they low balled on transfers all last summer. Then brought in one player to shut the fans up.

They didnt. They don't negotiate our transfers do they?

Vinz Mesrine

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Mata is fairly useless now apparently if you believe what you read in this forum.

I'd like to go on record stating that I've never even hinted at that, I know how you like to twist posts. He is an excellent player, he just wasn't needed at United at that time.

titan18

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Who said nobody else was interested in Shaw? What if the next season he performed in a way that attracted a lot of interest?

Mata was signed while the club were actively seeking a central midfielder. It wasn't an "either or" situation

Shaw is good, but he was overpriced. Chelsea and Liverpool have got equally as good, if not better, LBs at cheaper prices.

homerjay2005

bucketybuck wrote: »

RVP made fuck all difference when he came back last year and he will make fuck all difference to this team when he comes back this time. He will just end up isolated up front and touching the ball about three times a game, same as last year.

Our forwards are not the problem and so RVP is not the answer.

RVP had a better goals to game ratio last season than the season before...just saying, even with the team playing the worst football in 27 years.

Will I Amnt

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

I'm aware of how long United have needed strengthening in the middle, what I can't understand is why Ferguson never addressed it or why Moyes spent money on Mata instead of signing someone who might have helped him keep his job.

Well depending on who you believe, he wanted and bid for midfielders and the deals didn't get done.

Vinz Mesrine

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Well depending on who you believe, he wanted and bid for midfielders and the deals didn't get done.

Again, not down to the Glazers.

Larry Wildman

kryogen wrote: »

The jury is out on a two time player of the year (including a European Cup winning season!)

No other club wanted Juan Mata? Honestly, you couldn't make this **** up.

I'd say the people who have an appreciation for Juan Mata's abilities are most likely people who have watched the English Premier League for a few years and actually seen him play. That's probably it.

Has Jose ever alienated a good player in the past do you think?

Who wanted him?

"Two time player of the year"...give me a break. The best manager in the league wanted rid of him.

I'd love to see some of this wondrous magic you speak of in a United shirt.

You know, just because people here go on about how good he is, it doesn't make it so. Based on what he's done so far, he's another £35m turkey like Berbatov.

The fact of the matter is we'd be better off with Kagawa playing at 10 and spending the Mata money where it's needed - Midfield and defence.

A likeable fella but a show pony who we don't need. Hopefully he'll prove to be an excellent signing in time, but if you stand back and analyse his United career and contribution so far, you'd have to conclude "flop".

Will I Amnt

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

Again, not down to the Glazers.

I never said it was
I'm stating that the Mata signing wasn't a factor in not signing a CM.

titan18

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Mata is fairly useless now apparently if you believe what you read in this forum.

I don't think anyone thinks Mata is useless. But, we already couldn't fit Kagawa into the side, and then going and spending all that money on Mata instead of a position of need was stupid.

homerjay2005

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Mata is fairly useless now apparently if you believe what you read in this forum.

fairly useless is putting it at the usual boards over-reacting levels!

saying that our £37.5m midfielder has so far not playing at a level you'd expect him to, is a different matter.

if id to rate his United career so far, id rate it as a 6 out of 10....lets be fair here, he has been really poor in many games, totally anonymous in fact.

Will I Amnt

titan18 wrote: »

I don't think anyone thinks Mata is useless. But, we already couldn't fit Kagawa into the side, and then going and spending all that money on Mata instead of a position of need was stupid.

I was referring to something I read elsewhere on the forum today.

bucketybuck

kryogen wrote: »

The jury is out on a two time player of the year (including a European Cup winning season!)

No other club wanted Juan Mata? Honestly, you couldn't make this **** up.

I'd say the people who have an appreciation for Juan Mata's abilities are most likely people who have watched the English Premier League for a few years and actually seen him play. That's probably it.

His core point is very much correct though. I can appreciate the quality of Juan Mata as much as the next man but he has not had any real impact on our performances whatsoever since he joined the club. He has not improved us, he has just become another attacker floating around up front starved of service and unable to influence games.

He is a player we didn't need that hasn't done much since he joined. Love him all you want but thats the reality of that signing.

Vinz Mesrine

Will I Amnt wrote: »

I never said it was
I'm stating that the Mata signing wasn't a factor in not signing a CM.

How do you know that?

Is it totally implausible that the Glazers gave Moyes 40m to spend in January, he had a few rejections from central midfielders so just bought Mata because he was available instead of widening the net and catching a player who was needed?

Will I Amnt

bucketybuck wrote: »

His core point is very much correct though. I can appreciate the quality of Juan Mata as much as the next man but he has not had any real impact on our performances whatsoever since he joined the club. He has not improved us, he has just become another attacker floating around up front starved of service and unable to influence games.

He is a player we didn't need that hasn't done much since he joined. Love him all you want thats the reality of that signing.

If the midfield gets sorted you will see a different Mata. He played in a sh*t United team that was pathetically managed.

DrPhilG

Latest rumour is that United are going all out for Di Maria.

While I don't deny that he's a superb player, it makes all this talk of signing Mata as a marquee signing who wasn't actually what we needed a bit familiar...

twam2008

I like Mata, but Jose played that perfectly. Sold us Mata for £37m and then gets Fabregas for £30. I'd have preferred Fabregas.

Lord TSC

Thread closed cause we're nearing 10,000 posts. Thanks all.