Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 13/8

Julez

Mars Bar wrote: »

Herrera was unbelievable last night!

American fans are shocking bad. Mexicam waves can die a death too. No atmosphere in the stadium.
The rose bowl is a nice stadium but traffic is crazy getting to it!

I dunno if ye saw the pitch invader afterwards but two security guards timed their tackles perfectly and absolutely lathered the lad. It was fantastic. Looked like he had a pair of gaa shorts on so I think he might have been Irish!

It showed some fans quite soon after that and there was a lad in an Irish jersey pissing himself. Might have only showed that on fox sports though. But, I reckon the pitch invader was his mate or something.

Vic Vinegar

Mars Bar wrote: »

Herrera was unbelievable last night!

American fans are shocking bad. Mexicam waves can die a death too. No atmosphere in the stadium.
The rose bowl is a nice stadium but traffic is crazy getting to it!

I dunno if ye saw the pitch invader afterwards but two security guards timed their tackles perfectly and absolutely lathered the lad. It was fantastic. Looked like he had a pair of gaa shorts on so I think he might have been Irish!

It showed a bunch of Irish lads laughing in the crowd after that, they were probably his mates!

Eathrin

From Wikipedia, I thought this was quite shocking really. Even when we have sold our best players it was far below their value. The fact that Paul Ince from 1995 is still on this list really shows that we don't get great fees for our players ever, or that we just don't sell all that often!

Top 10 fees received
Player To Fee Date
1 Portugal Cristiano Ronaldo Real Madrid £80 million July 2009
2 England David Beckham Real Madrid £25 million June 2003
3 Netherlands Jaap Stam Lazio £15.25 million August 2001
4 Argentina Juan Sebastián Verón Chelsea £15 million August 2003
5 Netherlands Ruud van Nistelrooy Real Madrid £10.3 million July 2006
6 Argentina Gabriel Heinze Real Madrid £8.1 million August 2007
7 England Andy Cole Blackburn Rovers £7.5 million December 2001
8 England Paul Ince Internazionale £7 million July 1995
9 England Alan Smith Newcastle United £6.7 million August 2007
10 Italy Giuseppe Rossi Villarreal £6.6 million August 2007

JerCotter7

Eathrin wrote: »

From Wikipedia, I thought this was quite shocking really. Even when we have sold our best players it was far below their value. The fact that Paul Ince from 1995 is still on this list really shows that we don't get great fees for our players ever, or that we just don't sell all that often!

Top 10 fees received
Player To Fee Date
1 Portugal Cristiano Ronaldo Real Madrid £80 million July 2009
2 England David Beckham Real Madrid £25 million June 2003
3 Netherlands Jaap Stam Lazio £15.25 million August 2001
4 Argentina Juan Sebastián Verón Chelsea £15 million August 2003
5 Netherlands Ruud van Nistelrooy Real Madrid £10.3 million July 2006
6 Argentina Gabriel Heinze Real Madrid £8.1 million August 2007
7 England Andy Cole Blackburn Rovers £7.5 million December 2001
8 England Paul Ince Internazionale £7 million July 1995
9 England Alan Smith Newcastle United £6.7 million August 2007
10 Italy Giuseppe Rossi Villarreal £6.6 million August 2007

What's arsenals like? They are the only fair comparison since they had a steady manager as well.

RGDATA!

JerCotter7 wrote: »

What's arsenals like? They are the only fair comparison since they had a steady manager as well.

Not really comparing like-for-like as they've been far more of a selling club than Utd in the last 20 years, regularly having their best players poached and paying the price in terms of trophies. So sure they will have a far higher income from sales. If you compare to Bayern though - they have only, i think, three +10m sales.

Mars Bar

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

It showed a bunch of Irish lads laughing in the crowd after that, they were probably his mates!

I was down near the left corner flag at the end where we played into in the first half. There was a bunch of Irish lads with a flag near me so it was probably them alright.

Donnielighto

Pro. F wrote: »

You can play a winger type in that front two of the 3412. They can move into positions to use their pace on whichever defender they fancy their chances against, so making space and providing chances for the other attackers.

I'd say what's more of a threat to Nani, Zaha and Young's place in the squad is the number of players for those front two positions. There's those three wingers, the four strikers and possibly even one of the 10s on occasion, all competing for games there.

Do you mean playing the winger as one of the front 2 or where in that formation?

DM_7

Donnielighto wrote: »

Do you mean playing the winger as one of the front 2 or where in that formation?

Yes Pro mentioned the front two. Like Ronaldo for Madrid or Robben in the World Cup

gosplan

Reedsie wrote: »

As I said way back:

I don't know why this is the case, but there you go.



Fergie is one of the true greats. His record speaks for itself. Absolutely incredible, unparalleled results with St. Mirren, Aberdeen and Man United.

Van Gaal:
- His last club job he was sacked due to poor position.
- With AZ he left successful (although he had to be persuaded to stay on prior to that year after finishing a lowly 11th).
- He left Ajaz due to an internal conflict.
- He was sacked at Barcelona when having them just 3pts off relegation in January!
- In his first stint at Barcelona he was forced out following extreme media criticism (and losing the title).
- At Ajax he could do no wrong and left successfully having served his contract.


The reality of it is that Van Gaal is certainly not consistent and he is more often than not sacked due to poor results.



I'm delighted to have him here and can't wait for the season to kick off. But lets be realistic.

I think LVG is absolutely the right choice for Man U right now. Low risk - proven competence. However I can't see him outdoing Jose or Pellegrini of the latter two have resources to match.

The idea that LVG is a tactical genius that's going to propel utd back to the top is incorrect. What he is is a guy with buckets of experience, that's used to dealing with the top players, that has a good standing in the game and will be able to attract stars, that will get United united and moving back in the right direction. Importantly, he was also the best manager available at the time.

As someone pointed out, his record isn't that great. That Ajax team was a bit if a freakshow in terms of talent and it's been patchy since then ... plus that was 2 decades ago (man, I feel old). It is a top level CV though and that's the important thing for Utd.

Fergie was a freakshow though. As time passes, it's going to look better and better too.

kstand

Reedsie wrote: »

As I said way back:

I don't know why this is the case, but there you go.



Fergie is one of the true greats. His record speaks for itself. Absolutely incredible, unparalleled results with St. Mirren, Aberdeen and Man United.

Van Gaal:
- His last club job he was sacked due to poor position.
- With AZ he left successful (although he had to be persuaded to stay on prior to that year after finishing a lowly 11th).
- He left Ajaz due to an internal conflict.
- He was sacked at Barcelona when having them just 3pts off relegation in January!
- In his first stint at Barcelona he was forced out following extreme media criticism (and losing the title).
- At Ajax he could do no wrong and left successfully having served his contract.


The reality of it is that Van Gaal is certainly not consistent and he is more often than not sacked due to poor results.



I'm delighted to have him here and can't wait for the season to kick off. But lets be realistic.

Agree wholeheartedly with everything you have said above - while Van Gaal is an improvement on Moyes, I don't think he's the saviour everyone seems to be raving on about and there is a much better chance of this all ending in tears than in glory - there will be a huge fall out in time, that is the only inevitable thing about it. We may have a good season coming up with no Euro action but how well it is depends on what he does with the wallet. I'm happy to see him there - mainly because he was the only one who stood out. But I'm openly sceptical as to how things will go for him.

kstand

In other news I see some report this morning where Vidal has said he's not coming to Manchester when asked when he got back to Italy last night - not sure how true that is.
Success this season is hugely dependant on us signing a midfielder in that mould to replace Carrick along with a centre half and a winger.

Trigger

kstand wrote: »

In other news I see some report this morning where Vidal has said he's not coming to Manchester when asked when he got back to Italy last night - not sure how true that is.
Success this season is hugely dependant on us signing a midfielder in that mould to replace Carrick along with a centre half and a winger.

Here's the conversation with the Journo.. He was rushing thru the airport at the time.. never said he is not going to Manchester.. He brushed of the question saying no no basically he wasn't answering the question

NUTZZ wrote: »

....

Sport witness have the video of it on their twitter

bucketybuck

kstand wrote: »

In other news I see some report this morning where Vidal has said he's not coming to Manchester when asked when he got back to Italy last night - not sure how true that is.

Some reporter shouted a question at him as he hurried past and got a non-answer. That meaningless non-answer has been analysed and debated for about twenty pages. Thats how true it is.

Iago

Keno wrote: »

My order status is 'Picking'.

Hurry it up lads...

Paid for express delivery, 3 jerseys arrived this morning.

Result!

hufpc8w3adnk65

Mars Bar wrote: »

I was down near the left corner flag at the end where we played into in the first half. There was a bunch of Irish lads with a flag near me so it was probably them alright.

If you go back a few pages yesterday someone posted a gif of the pitch invader getting speared by security!

MagicIRL

The whole Vidal thing honestly reads like a man who wanted to go home and the last thing he wanted was to satisfy some inquiring journalist.

Copper_pipe

I'm still pretty confident we'll sign Vidal

Delboy5

With Vidal back in training on Monday and Juve flying out on their Asian tour the following weekend i think we'll get closure on this one way or the other next week....

Thank fcuk!

Maximus Alexander

Any signings since I went to bed last night?

Copper_pipe

@ESPNFC

When pressed on whether he is going to join #MUFC, Vidal repeated "no" three times to Sky Sport Italia, joking he will sign for Lazio.

Mitch Connor

Copper_pipe wrote: »

@ESPNFC

When pressed on whether he is going to join #MUFC, Vidal repeated "no" three times to Sky Sport Italia, joking he will sign for Lazio.

He was actually asked if it is true that he is NOT going to United - to which he said no no no, which would actually confirm he IS going to United.

Done deal lads.

IMO, what was said last night means nothing - it wasn't a firm denial imo. He was being pressed by a reporter who wouldn't leave him alone, when he didn't want to be talking to him. All I really took from the comments last night is that he isn't 100% about staying at Juve.

homerjay2005

regarding the Vidal saga, a mate of mine at work is from Turin and he just sent me this text -

"Today Vidal said that he is not sure to stay to juventus club , but he told also no negotiation with MU at the moment"

that would be a proper translation of it i would say.

Mitch Connor

homerjay2005 wrote: »

regarding the Vidal saga, a mate of mine at work is from Turin and he just sent me this text -

"Today Vidal said that he is not sure to stay to juventus club , but he told also no negotiation with MU at the moment"

that would be a proper translation of it i would say.

He wasn't asked about negotiations with United, he wasn't asked if there was contact from United, so it is not a correct translation of what was said - unless there is a second interview your mate has access to that no one else seems to.

Lord TSC

The one thing I take from all of this, over the last few weeks, is that he doesn't seem to have come out and flatly denied it with a statement of "ffs, I am 100% not going anywhere", no matter how often he's asked. It's constant dodging the question, giving vague but non-committal answers....

Now that's not to say he's coming to us; I still think this is just this summer's Snedjier/Fabregas fiasco. We get them every year. It's as likely he thinks he can get a money move or an even better contract at Juve and is keeping every door open to him.

bangkok

shadowcomplex wrote: »

Fergie has never been the best tactician and we all know that

not sure if serious??

homerjay2005

bangkok wrote: »

not sure if serious??

while its not black and white straight forward saying he was poor tactically, there definitely is merit in it.

i mean in terms of success, surely saying his motivation, organisational, desire and will to win skills, along with some cracking players playing at the top of their game had a bigger influence than his tactical skills?

bullvine

Fergies philosophy was always "I have the best team! I can beat anyone." He started to change after they got stung by Real in 2000 but generally his teams were built to outplay the other teams and not tactically setup to win games.

MagicIRL

We beat a 4th place MLS team and suddenly Sir Alex can't tactically set up a team for football. Christ on a bike.

jamesbere

Any news on Daley blind, I think he would be great asset if we can get him

Maximus Alexander

Fergie didn't know the first thing about football, obvs.

homerjay2005

MagicIRL wrote: »

We beat a 4th place MLS team and suddenly Sir Alex can't tactically set up a team for football. Christ on a bike.

what has this got to do with La Galaxy?

there has been discussion about Fergies tactics for years, nothing to do with LVG.

look at what Rene said a few months back about how Fergie sometimes never listened to them and how mistakes were made in certain big games, that could have went better with better planning/tactics.

this discussion is not new.

bangkok

homerjay2005 wrote: »

while its not black and white straight forward saying he was poor tactically, there definitely is merit in it.

i mean in terms of success, surely saying his motivation, organisational, desire and will to win skills, along with some cracking players playing at the top of their game had a bigger influence than his tactical skills?

he was probably one of the best tacticians of all time!!!

look at what he won with st Mirren, all the success he had with Aberdeen, all the titles he won with Utd. Sure look at real Madrid when they had all the galacticos, zidane, Ronaldo etc they had all the best players in the world and they didn't win much, as tactically there weren't up to scratch.


Even when United played the likes of wigan, sunderland over the years tactics were worked on every game.



The fact that some think fergie was bad at tactics is mind boggling!!!

TheDoc

Few websites have a much more detailed Vidal quote.

It essentially says Juventus fans can be calm...I'm not moving anywhere this summer.

So unless its all smoke and mirrors and Kuventus decide to sell him..I think we can forget about that one.

And all of a sudden the pool of talented CMs looks gone...with Kroos having made his move.

bangkok

homerjay2005 wrote: »

what has this got to do with La Galaxy?

there has been discussion about Fergies tactics for years, nothing to do with LVG.

look at what Rene said a few months back about how Fergie sometimes never listened to them and how mistakes were made in certain big games, that could have went better with better planning/tactics.

this discussion is not new.

this is the same rene that was shown up tactically at Fulham??

of course there were mistakes in some big games, but sure what manager doesn't make mistakes, it was just fergie made the least amount.

TheDoc

Lord TSC wrote: »

The one thing I take from all of this, over the last few weeks, is that he doesn't seem to have come out and flatly denied it with a statement of "ffs, I am 100% not going anywhere", no matter how often he's asked. It's constant dodging the question, giving vague but non-committal answers....

Now that's not to say he's coming to us; I still think this is just this summer's Snedjier/Fabregas fiasco. We get them every year. It's as likely he thinks he can get a money move or an even better contract at Juve and is keeping every door open to him.

Well according to what's circulating it appears he has very much denied any intention to move.

Lord TSC

TheDoc wrote: »

Well according to what's circulating it appears he has very much denied any intention to move.

Is there more new quotes? Or are these the same as yesterday and just a continuing twist on them?

Backstreet Moyes

homerjay2005 wrote: »

what has this got to do with La Galaxy?

there has been discussion about Fergies tactics for years, nothing to do with LVG.

look at what Rene said a few months back about how Fergie sometimes never listened to them and how mistakes were made in certain big games, that could have went better with better planning/tactics.

this discussion is not new.

Rene talks a lot of **** in fairness. Look at how the tactical genius was so successful in his time at Fulham.

FutureGuy

Ok. My two cents based on all the little bits of information and which ones I feel have some merit. I could be wrong and I probably am. All I know is we have no idea how this going to resolve but I am not going to lose sleep over it.

We want Vidal and we will certainly be in for him. I think United have sounded out Juve and both sides are open to the move once the deal is fair. I think the player is open to a move.

However, I don't think we have sat down formally with Juve as the player is on holiday and his knee has not being assessed. If the knee shows no signs of anything long term, United will sit down and a deal could be thrashed out. It's a lot of money for a player who was rushed back from the WC.

Juve have spent a lot of money, and with little movement on Pogba,, I think they may have to sell.

Anyways I'm going to enjoy the weekend and will make a nice cup of tea before watching the Roma game.

Mitch Connor

Nuts102 wrote: »

Rene talks a lot of **** in fairness. Look at how the tactical genius was so successful in his time at Fulham.

You can be very good tactically, and still be a poor manager.

You can be ok tactically, and still be a great manager.

Tactics aren't the be all and end all of management or football.

For me, if Fergie was amazing tactically, we'd have had better success in europe under him than we did. When we won the cup under him, we had pretty much the best side in Europe those seasons, imo. We never punched above our weight in Europe, and arguably for most seasons we didn't even punch at our weight.

I'm not saying Fergie was terrible tactically speaking - but I would say his tactical style was more suited to football in the 90's, and his tactical knowledge/awareness/usage/whatever, didn't press on in the 2000's. Towards the end of his time at United we were tactically shown up in many big games, imo.

bullvine

Fergie got better with tactics as the years went by that was pretty clear but I think it coincided with Carlos Queroz joining.

ericzeking

Whatever about Vidal...we urgently need defenders, just sheer numbers if this is the system LVG is set on, maybe 2 centre backs and a left back.

At this particular moment in time (Kenny Cunningham voice) we will only really NEED another midfielder if we are offloading one or 2. From the set up the other night it's clear one of the 3 midfielders will be a true no. 10, so we are set there with Mata and Kagawa. So we then have 2 midfield berths to fill from Herrerra, Fletcher, Fellaini, Cleverly and Carrick when he gets fit.
Regardless of what one might think of the quality of those, the least you can say is that we have numbers. Defence is the immediate priority as I see it because we are an injury or two away from not being able to field a full set of defenders.

Also, on the midfielder issue, if we are going to play a system with a true midfield number 10 as seems apparent then it is less important that we spunk 40 million quid on someone else to play behind them after all we've already spent the bones of 30 m on Herrerra.

We would all like Vidal, but we don't neccessarily need him, just yet anyway.

On the Fergie debate, his tactics were basic enough an awful lot of the time, his solution to many a problem was more strikers and more wingers but he still got it done. He should arguably have done better in Europe.

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

The fact that some think fergie was bad at tactics is mind boggling!!!

Thats not that the argument was, as is pretty clear from what the other posters said.

Mitch Connor

bucketybuck wrote: »

Thats not that the argument was, as is pretty clear from what the other posters said.

THis is the internet - if something isn't amazing, it is sh1t.

bullvine

You only have to look at the 2011 CL final, what a disaster that match was.

MagicIRL

Mitch Connor wrote: »

THis is the internet - if something isn't amazing, it is sh1t.

The internet needs to be purged of the words; awesome, amazing and epic. :cool:

bangkok

bullvine wrote: »

You only have to look at the 2011 CL final, what a disaster that match was.

they worked on tactics for weeks in the build up to that game, they just happened to be playing the greatest club side of all time

bangkok

bullvine wrote: »

Fergie got better with tactics as the years went by that was pretty clear but I think it coincided with Carlos Queroz joining.

was queroz with him at Aberdeen when he won all the trophies and even beat the mighty real Madrid?

how did queroz fair when he went to real Madrid?

fergie was a tactical genius

Mitch Connor

bangkok wrote: »

they worked on tactics for weeks in the build up to that game, they just happened to be playing the greatest club side of all time

So what if they worked on tactics?

No one is saying Fergie ignored tactics - we are saying it wasn't his strong suit. He had other attributes that made up for not being one of the best tactical manager around.

ericzeking

I have never come across a more partisan United fan in all my long hard days walking this planet... 'Everything is awesome'!

merlinsmerryman

bangkok wrote: »

they worked on tactics for weeks in the build up to that game, they just happened to be playing the greatest club side of all time

100% Agree. Didnt really matter what they did tactically that night. Just came up against a supremely talented and well drilled side that night.