Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 13/8

Maximus Alexander

homerjay2005 wrote: »

???? it changes f*ck all. Michael Carrick was the last big player we signed during preseason, 8 years ago this week. it was 30 transfers ago. transfers 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 etc etc all fall into the same category.

What are the stats on Louis Van Gaal and Ed Woodward's transfer strategies? Far more relevant.

Donnielighto

homerjay2005 wrote: »

for those interested, i took a look at our last 29 transfers since August 2006 and when the players were signed, splitting it into 5 categories -

• 8 were signed in January window.
• 14 were signed in time for preseason (before July 10th)
• 1 was signed during pre-season (Mame Diouf - July 10th to August 10th)
• 4 players were signed late in summer window (RVP, butter, Henriquez, bebe - August 11th to Deadline day)
• 2 were signed on deadline day (Berbatov and Fellaini)

when you look at it like that, in 8 years we have had one successful transfer in the late in summer window category.

indeed, the last time United signed a big player during preseason tour, was Michael Carrick on July 31st 2006 who would be the 30th player on the list.

Fellaini may come good (dont kill me)

Berba performed well, i wouldnt blame him for the move not being a success, i wouldnt even blame fergie at the time. The team just progressed in a different direction.

Donnielighto

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Critical Exception in boards.post.homerjay2005: Sample size too small.

Well if you include carrick then the sample size is the minimum required to be classed statistically significant. But then we wouldnt have the numbers massaged as much I suppose.

keane2097

homerjay2005 wrote: »

???? it changes f*ck all. Michael Carrick was the last big player we signed during preseason, 8 years ago this week. it was 30 transfers ago. transfers 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 etc etc all fall into the same category.

It changes the table of numbers you presented to make your point.

It increases the July onwards tally by 15% or something by the way. It's just an amusing thing to go back to #29 because #30 doesn't suit your argument.

homerjay2005

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

What are the stats on Louis Van Gaal and Ed Woodward's transfer strategies? Far more relevant.

Ed Woodward and Louis Van Gaal have signed zero players during the last 8 preseasons for Manchester United.

Happy now?

jimmytwotimes 2013

No point in looking over past transfers as an indicator of what may happen his summer. This summer is unique as united had not finished 7th prior to those listed transfers. Nor had we lost 3 of a back 4.

The need for strengthening is obvious this summer, unlike the light tinkering that would have been needed before.

This is a unique situation. United can't afford to finish outside the top 4 again, therefore there will surely be some more, significant movement.

Liam O

Donnielighto wrote: »

Fellaini may come good (dont kill me)

Berba performed well, i wouldnt blame him for the move not being a success, i wouldnt even blame fergie at the time. The team just progressed in a different direction.

It was plain as day the team didn't suit Berbatov before he moved. Terrible transfer and I said it at the time. He was only useful 1 season and even then it wasn't for a sustained period in that season and a lot to do with the ability of Nani or Carrick to provide quality passes and crosses in Nani's case.

Donnielighto

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Happy now?

Cool, can I have the UTD job next, I won as much as manager of united since I was born as Klopp?

Donnielighto

Liam O wrote: »

It was plain as day the team didn't suit Berbatov before he moved. Terrible transfer and I said it at the time. He was only useful 1 season and even then it wasn't for a sustained period in that season and a lot to do with the ability of Nani or Carrick to provide quality passes and crosses in Nani's case.

He put the ball in the net when he was played. Anyway he added another dimension to attack. No point not having a plan b or c

Maximus Alexander

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Happy now?

Well in that case we can conclusively say that there will be no more signings.

Nalz

TheDoc wrote: »

After the quick fire transfers of Herrera and Shaw, the last two weeks have been so dreary

Its like when the lead singer of Cruachan has two Zaytoons after pay day and the rest of the month he's on the sauce.... sauce out of the bachelors bean can that is!

onemorechance

For better or for worse, we might know Di Maria's club for next season this weekend:

El futuro de Di María se resolverá en pocos días, según sus agentes

www.cope.es

No direct quotes, but they say his people [agent ?] have told them that his future will be decided this weekend and they speculate the player is interested in PSG or United.

adox

Jaysus I'd be classed as one of the more pessimistic posters I'm sure, but even I'm expecting probably 3 signings before the window closes.

dahat

Andy Mitten is running with the vidal deal has been pulled by LVG.

Lord TSC

dahat wrote: »

Andy Mitten is running with the vidal deal has been pulled by LVG.

The ass covering begins.....

homerjay2005

adox wrote: »

Jaysus I'd be classed as one of the more pessimistic posters I'm sure, but even I'm expecting probably 3 signings before the window closes.

i think 99% of us on here are expecting 3 players. the differences in opinion (worry/fear) lies however about whether they will be the right ones or not.

we really should have 2 more defenders signed by now, the club have had 3 months to prepare for Vidic and Rio for instance.

Zico

Liam O wrote: »

It was plain as day the team didn't suit Berbatov before he moved. Terrible transfer and I said it at the time. He was only useful 1 season and even then it wasn't for a sustained period in that season and a lot to do with the ability of Nani or Carrick to provide quality passes and crosses in Nani's case.

I still cringe when I think how much was paid for him, and although Tevez turned out to be a nightmare I think Fergie would have made better use of him.

Pro. F

Liam O wrote: »

Em, Fergie DID regularly change his team and since Ronaldo left there was plenty of defensive displays akin to Mourinho's first stint at Chelsea, 1-0s galore. The thing with the 1-0s for United is that they looked a lot less sure than Chelseas. Fergie as I said yesterday was great at picking players for a role but never really imparted a style of play on his teams. That was seemingly dictated by the centre mids he had at the time who really slowed down from 2010 on. I feel Liverpool without Suarez last season would have still done well and been around the top. I don't feel the same without Rooney, RVP, Nani or whoever the main standout player was in Fergie's last few years. There just wasn't a plan except put more attackers on a lot of the time. The never say die United are almost dead now when chasing a game late on and that didn't start with Moyes imo.

Changing the personnel is not the same as changing the tactics. Week in and week out the tactics generally revolved around pressing the opposition at key times in the game, attacking and using width.

I did say that Fergie got into defensive football for big games for a good few years. It was at it's height when Ronaldo and Queiroz were at the club and got a bit better when Ronaldo left. But Fergie was never as defensive as Jose.

Every season or two United had different players who were the standouts under Fergie. It's always said that Fergie's United couldn't have done it without this or that player, yet they all came and went and he always kept winning.

United had a very obvious style and plan under Fergie. The change and what was lost when Moyes came in was also obvious.

homerjay2005

Lord TSC wrote: »

The ass covering begins.....

maybe, just maybe he could be right? while it makes no sense to us, it makes sense in the respect that he wants Strootman (or somebody else) and thats it.

The_Kew_Tour

This is just a bad dream right?

Dont let me down Ed now!

Lord TSC

homerjay2005 wrote: »

maybe, just maybe he could be right? while it makes no sense to us, it makes sense in the respect that he wants Strootman (or somebody else) and thats it.

Maybe.

The reality is we'll likely get 100 different versions of why it's not happening with 100 different excuses. Be interesting to see which ones people go with to suit their thought processes....

homerjay2005

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

This is just a bad dream right?

Dont let me down Ed now!

nope, its true... so long Bebe.

Lord TSC

EDIT: Beaten to it :P

redbaron_99

It was quite obvious two months ago that we needed to 2 centre backs. Why the delay?

onemorechance

redbaron_99 wrote: »

It was quite obvious two months ago that we needed to 2 centre backs. Why the delay?

Van Gaal also refused to comment on transfer targets, with Juventus star Arturo Vidal understood to be at the top of his wishlist.

"I want to learn about my players, to know them and, when I give the orders, I want to see how they perform," he added. "That is why I cannot answer this question now. I want to give all the players a chance to show themselves under my guidance."

redbaron_99

onemorechance wrote: »

Van Gaal also refused to comment on transfer targets, with Juventus star Arturo Vidal understood to be at the top of his wishlist.

"I want to learn about my players, to know them and, when I give the orders, I want to see how they perform," he added. "That is why I cannot answer this question now. I want to give all the players a chance to show themselves under my guidance."

It's not a point of what the current players are capable of. No matter how they do in pre season, we need more centre backs.
It's a problem of mathematics and not quality.

It's another transfer window that has been managed badly. Moyes out!

Zico

Van Gaal " Yesh I have CEO who likes selling the shirts and the advertishing but he cannot with buying the playersh"

homerjay2005

onemorechance wrote: »

Van Gaal also refused to comment on transfer targets, with Juventus star Arturo Vidal understood to be at the top of his wishlist.

"I want to learn about my players, to know them and, when I give the orders, I want to see how they perform," he added. "That is why I cannot answer this question now. I want to give all the players a chance to show themselves under my guidance."

i think you are missing the point, how can he assess players when they have already left?

4 defenders gone, (5 if you include Fabio) meaning compared to this point last year, we have 5 defenders as opposed to 9.

now, all he has to assess is Michael Keane and at a stretch Blackett. you honestly telling me that these guys are going to be good enough to be first 11 players?

fair enough include them, but thats still only 7 defenders, 3 of who have never played for the first team and the other 4 have horrific injury records. we need at least two top class defenders, its not opinion and it doesnt need assessing, those players could and should have been signed before the team left for the states.

there is no excuse for it (no senior defenders signed by now) in my opinion.

DM_7

redbaron_99 wrote: »

It was quite obvious two months ago that we needed to 2 centre backs. Why the delay?

Some targets busy with that football tournament in Brazil. Van Gaal and his coaches probably wanted to see what skills were needed rather than just numbers once players returned for training.

onemorechance

redbaron_99 wrote: »

It's not a point of what the current players are capable of. No matter how they do in pre season, we need more centre backs.
It's a problem of mathematics and not quality.

It's another transfer window that has been managed badly. Moyes out!

He said in his first press conference that he wanted a month with the players already there, after which time he would look at brining players in. (Just what Moyes said last year! :pac: )

He mentioned that Shaw and Herrera were "already on the list" and he approved their purchase.

I think he is a similar manger to Mourinho in that he has a system and that he wants players who are able to play in his system. I figure that he thinks a decent player, especially a young one who is eager to learn can play well enough in his system if they are willing to put the effort in. He likes to give young players a chance, so while I doubt he cares about breaking the bank, I think he's looking to make the best of what he has, give the players some time to see if they will fit into his system, and then see who needs to come in.

He has only been in the job for a couple of weeks. With the likes of Smalling, Evans, Jones in the CB roles, I doubt the board could have easily decided whether to buy a 1st team CB or a back up CB for example.

redbaron_99

DM-ICE wrote: »

Some targets busy with that football tournament in Brazil. Van Gaal and his coaches probably wanted to see what skills were needed rather than just numbers onde players returned for training.

One of his coaches knows every player very very well. And the World Cup excuse is wearing thin at this stage.

Maybe we will sign the right players, or at least some capable back up players, and all be grand. Who knows. It's just getting a bit worrying now IMO. Hope my fears are quashed soon.

Cookiemunster

redbaron_99 wrote: »

One of his coaches knows every player very very well. And the World Cup excuse is wearing thin at this stage.

Maybe we will sign the right players, or at least some capable back up players, and all be grand. Who knows. It's just getting a bit worrying now IMO. Hope my fears are quashed soon.

Giggs may well know all they players, but LVG doesn't. He is quite obviously his own man and he'll make his own judgement on the players. And I don't see how the world cup excuse is wearing thin. It's only 13 days since the last Dutch game and 9 days since LVG started at Utd.

lordgoat

My take on it is: we were in for Vidal and say maybe Hummels, waited til both were back after the WC, to be told no by the player. I'm guessing Vidal will move elsewhere or sign a new deal.

gosplan

redbaron_99 wrote: »

One of his coaches knows every player very very well. And the World Cup excuse is wearing thin at this stage.

Maybe we will sign the right players, or at least some capable back up players, and all be grand. Who knows. It's just getting a bit worrying now IMO. Hope my fears are quashed soon.

LVG has been working with the players for a week.

If there are no signings by the end of the window then you should be terrified of the intentions of the glazers.

homerjay2005

onemorechance wrote: »

He has only been in the job for a couple of weeks. With the likes of Smalling, Evans, Jones in the CB roles, I doubt the board could have easily decided whether to buy a 1st team CB or a back up CB for example.

why on earth would we sign a back up center half?

for f*ck sake, our CE is telling us we have uncapped budget and are in for the best players in the world. we are apparently holding off signings to give reserve players who have never appeared for the club a chance of filling in for 3 of our greatest ever defenders.

you couldnt make this up.

DM_7

redbaron_99 wrote: »

One of his coaches knows every player very very well. And the World Cup excuse is wearing thin at this stage.

Maybe we will sign the right players, or at least some capable back up players, and all be grand. Who knows. It's just getting a bit worrying now IMO. Hope my fears are quashed soon.

I hope your fears go to deadline day just to annoy you at this stage

Ah no, but if your going to say players should be signed two months ago I will make jokes.

I don't think Giggs opinion alone was going to make Van Gaals mind for him. Its obvious he needs more defenders, he said it himself, what isn't obvious is what skill sets he requires to be brought in without looking at the players.

Does he need a right sided centre half to play in his three or is he happy Smalling and Jones are enough. Does he want two commanding players brought in, a first choice and back up to play as the central of the three defenders as he wouldn't be happy with any of the three lads already there or maybe none as he thinks Evans are Jones are good enough (and so on).

tupac_healy

Just seen the match highlights there from the Galaxy game, I think it's pretty clear that Herrera has a great eye for a pass!

With himself and Mata slipping balls through for RVP I can see good things happening up front, but of steel in the backline and CM and we are up and running

Donnielighto

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i think 99% of us on here are expecting 3 players. the differences in opinion (worry/fear) lies however about whether they will be the right ones or not.

we really should have 2 more defenders signed by now, the club have had 3 months to prepare for Vidic and Rio for instance.

Hey Homer just wondering would you prefer if the club took it's time and got players further up it's list of preference or got once not as preferred but earlier in the window.

Not saying thats the situation, just curious.

Rubber_Soul

homerjay2005 wrote: »

you couldnt make this up.

You just did.

Donnielighto

homerjay2005 wrote: »

maybe, just maybe he could be right? while it makes no sense to us, it makes sense in the respect that he wants Strootman (or somebody else) and thats it.

He would've wanted strootman months ago though so the vidal thing was either a runner or it wasn't once LvG was signed up imo. If it's a case of it being vidal/strootman and not vidal+strootman then that means wiating on strootman would preclude us from bidding at all or it should have no impact on the signing.

Mitten is covering himself (as he should)

dahat

We will sign Vermalen and Cavani, be like Ed to push Cavani on us if Hernandez goes.

adox

The defender situation is a bit puzzling. Utd are very short there in numbers, Van Gaal played three at the back and hinted it may be the way he goes for the season, which makes the situation worse, numbers wise.

He even said when asked why he played Fletcher at CB in the second half,"because I had no one else".

Also his comments on the squad being unbalanced with too many number 10s all should be leading to personal change.

Now it should still happen but I just for the life of me can not see how a CB or two haven't been signed by now. No matter what Van Gaal wanted to see in the players, defenders were going to be need to be signed.

It is leaving a hell of a lot of work to be done in the latter part of the window.

onemorechance

homerjay2005 wrote: »

why on earth would we sign a back up center half?

LA Galaxy game, 3 CB's changed at HT; Van Gaal said: "I have no more defenders, so I have to pick a player [Fletcher] who can do the job but he is not so suitable for this position."

homerjay2005 wrote: »

for f*ck sake, our CE is telling us we have uncapped budget and are in for the best players in the world.

we are apparently holding off signings to give reserve players who have never appeared for the club a chance

In his first press conference he said that he will work with the current bunch of players for "three to four weeks" before deciding whether to buy anyone else

homerjay2005 wrote: »

of filling in for 3 of our greatest ever defenders.

you couldnt make this up.

I think Jones, Smalling, Evans, Shaw are the ones who will be filling in for those.

adox

dahat wrote: »

We will sign Vermalen and Cavani, be like Ed to push Cavani on us if Hernandez goes.

I think I'd cry if Utd wasted money on Cavani.

Donnielighto

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i think you are missing the point, how can he assess players when they have already left?

4 defenders gone, (5 if you include Fabio) meaning compared to this point last year, we have 5 defenders as opposed to 9.

now, all he has to assess is Michael Keane and at a stretch Blackett. you honestly telling me that these guys are going to be good enough to be first 11 players?

fair enough include them, but thats still only 7 defenders, 3 of who have never played for the first team and the other 4 have horrific injury records. we need at least two top class defenders, its not opinion and it doesnt need assessing, those players could and should have been signed before the team left for the states.

there is no excuse for it (no senior defenders signed by now) in my opinion.

How could he assess fabio who already left? Vidic was gone too and I think the club let evra go out of decency to himself (that's just opinion) so we're really just looking at rio and buttner to be reviewed in defence who have been moved on.

Edit: also if you are complaining about shaw never having played for the 1st team.... well that'd be the same issue for anyone brought in anyway

dahat

@Ian_Ladyman_DM: Twitters obsession with #mufc and Vidal continues. Definite message of 'no interest' from the club, tho.

Looks like the interest has most certainly cooled if Ladyman is seen as somewhat reliable.

Donnielighto

dahat wrote: »

We will sign Vermalen and Cavani, be like Ed to push Cavani on us if Hernandez goes.

Care to explain how? He doesn't exactly have previous of it.

Zico

adox wrote: »

I think I'd cry if Utd wasted money on Cavani.

The coffers are being swelled enough by people buying shirts they never intended to, thanks to the store "glitch"

dahat

Donnielighto wrote: »

Care to explain how? He doesn't exactly have previous of it.

Push him as a marquee signing if we fail to add proper quality to midfield, masking failures in the market again. Only a thought rather than something concrete.

Rubber_Soul

Interesting excerpt from James Ducker's latest tour diary

Wilfried Zaha says he “definitely feels like this is a clean slate” after a miserable first season at Old Trafford, although it was telling that the England Under-21 winger was one of only a handful of players not to get on the pitch at the Rose Bowl as Louis van Gaal blooded 20 players all told against LA Galaxy. At the start of pre-season back in Manchester, United’s players were told one Friday that they didn’t have to come in the next day if they didn’t want to. The underlying message was pretty clear, though – get yourself in if you expect to be treated seriously. The only player who didn’t show that Saturday? Zaha. Talent is one thing, attitude is another, and it seems the former Crystal Palace player still has a lot to learn on that front.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/football/article4157831.ece