Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 13/8

Mitch Connor

ericzeking wrote: »

What astounds me is that people are getting so hot and bothered about whether or not we sign Arturo focking Vidal or another central midfielder when we don't have enough defenders in the squad numbers wise to cover a Sunday league season not to mind the Premier League, that's what I find astounding.

LVG has been publicly clear about wanting to sign defenders, so I don't consider that to yet be a worry.

He, and the club, have said nothing at all about wanting to improve our woeful midfield.

ericzeking

Mitch Connor wrote: »

IMO, you could swap Vidals name in for Fabregas - we are repeating the exact same saga as last summer, just with a new target.

IMO:

1. We have agreed a contract, in principle, with Vidal and his agent.
2. Juve will sell at a fee that looks like their hand will be forced.
3. United are unwilling to pay what is required to buy him.

I believe the EXACT same thing happened with Fabregas last summer. I am hoping for a better outcome for United this time around, but i'm not getting my hopes up anymore, I don't trust United or Woodward.

What's the magic number for the fee that you have in your head?

Remember now we spent 28m on Fellaini, 37m on Mata, 27m on Shaw, 30m on Herrerra.

ericzeking

Mitch Connor wrote: »

LVG has been publicly clear about wanting to sign defenders, so I don't consider that to yet be a worry.

He, and the club, have said nothing at all about wanting to improve our woeful midfield.

It has been improved, Herrerra has signed and Mata will play as a true number 10 at the top of the midfield.

Adamocovic

If we add to our midfield great, if we don't I won't lose too much sleep. The main area I want to see a signing is in the backs. A centre back and a wing back would be great.

homerjay2005

Mitch Connor wrote: »

LVG has been publicly clear about wanting to sign defenders, so I don't consider that to yet be a worry.

but its very weird that considering what was being promised all year, that we have not addressed our defensive shortages.

my worry is that while everybody would believe we need 3 signings there, we only will actually get one (Vermaelen) - Blackett, Keane and James are the players who will replace the 3 lads gone.

either LVG doesnt want to spend the money (or we actually dont have it until the Addidas deal kicks in), the players we wanted have turned us down or LVG really wants to go with Youth as opposed to buying.

its a mixture of all 3 to be honest.

Headshot

TheDoc wrote: »

I'm expecting my first child, which should have been here Friday past, but seems to be a little too comfy in there. It's a funny parallel. I come home from work, ask hows things, any movement, do we think it will be this evening or tonight.

Then I move to SSN, see how's things, any movement, and if anything will happen that night.

I can't help but feel I should blame Woodward for this delay. And the transfers too.

Call you first child Vidal

weisses

bucketybuck wrote: »

What astounds me is that people can't see it. Our squad is in bits and people are happy to believe that it will all be hunky dory.

In Fairness those kind of remarks where made about the Dutch squad as well before the WC ... And look what happened

If the squad is in bits then that is what LvG will focus on ... Big name signings doesn't make you better necessarily

Balance in the squad and player fitness both physically and mentally is what is needed first

Macca07

Mitch Connor wrote: »

IMO, you could swap Vidals name in for Fabregas - we are repeating the exact same saga as last summer, just with a new target.

IMO:

1. We have agreed a contract, in principle, with Vidal and his agent.
2. Juve will sell at a fee that looks like their hand will be forced.
3. United are unwilling to pay what is required to buy him.

I believe the EXACT same thing happened with Fabregas last summer. I am hoping for a better outcome for United this time around, but i'm not getting my hopes up anymore, I don't trust United or Woodward.

I would completely disagree with you. Fabregas moved to Chelsea this summer for around £30 million, United were believed to have offered them the same amount last year and was rejected. Some say we even offered more. Cesc didn't move because he didn't want to move to United. His missus didn't want to move.

Regarding Vidal, only Juve and United know if there has been a bid made, but it doesn't look like it.

Coat22

DM-ICE wrote: »

Interesting point below



Does anyone actually think it will all be hunky dory if Van Gaal doesn't add to the squad?

Nope.

He’s spot on – it is in bits.

We have a strong keeper

2 strong full backs but we’re going to play 3-5-2 and need them to become wing backs (shouldn’t be a problem with the 2 we have). No real cover on either side but are pressing two wingers into these roles.

3 average CBs, one of whom (Jones) may blossom if given a chance – the other 2 never going to be first choice at top 5 clubs.

A seemingly strong midfielder in Herrara (we hope), Carrick who can be both great and shocking but who would get into all the PL squads at the moment. Squad players in Cleverly, Fellani, Fletcher who again wouldn’t cut it at another top 5 club (ok – maybe Liverpool)

Nani who was bought as the new Ronaldo and will give you a great game in every 5 and is now redundant.

Up front is where we are very strong and this is what probably clouds people’s judegment of the whole squad. For me RVP needs to prove himself again this season or move on next summer. Rooney & Mata potential league winners if those behind them are beefed up. Kagawa a great option but won’t get in ahead of these 2. Hernandez still quality IMO. Wellbeck has his uses but isn’t as good as he thinks he is.

So I think it is fair to say the squad is in bits (“Broken” as VG put it) but a couple of CBs and a CM would start putting it right pretty quickly.

Mr.Prodston

I think our squad is relatively ok this season without Europe to worry about. Of course we need a midfielder and a defender but aside from that I don't see the panic. Sure it'd be great to have many superstars rock up this year but if we can get our first team fit and geared up for one game every week then we don't need a huge squad.

Look at Liverpool last year (This is not to be construed as a dig in any way, shape or form. I have no time for that bullsh!t one-up manship). Their squad was threadbare a good 12/13 players but very little behind that and they did rather well. They suffered very few injuries so were able to sustain a challenge and United probably have a couple of extra player who are able to step in if an injury occurs.

We let LVG mould the team and hopefully pre-season thus far can translate into a good start to the season. We then strengthen accordingly and hopefully will be back in the CL next year. We have a few promising youngsters who can get game time, it's something we'd all like to see yes? This is the season to do it.

I know that's the best case scenario but there's too much pessimism creeping in here recently regardless of whether it's founded or unfounded. We have De Gea, Mata, Herrera, RVP and a Rooney who looks trimmer than he has been in a long time, not to mention the Iron Tullip. Things could be worse

v3ttel

Fletch has probably played the most amount of minutes of anyone on the tour so far, has been very good in both games, and one of our better players overall. He looks incredibly fit thus far.

To completely write him off as being "finished" is crazy given that:

- He's proved that over the short term (last 9 months or so), his illness hasn't caused him to be unavailable
- He's showing signs of getting back to his best.
- He looks incredibly fit and has taken a full part in pre-season, playing more minutes than most
- He's said since his operation he feels back to normal.

Let's judge at the end of the season. IMHO, he is well worth his place as a third/fourth choice midfielder in the squad, right now. The main issue is that we to sign a world class midfielder to play alongside Herrera.

RayCun

homerjay2005 wrote: »

my worry is that while everybody would believe we need 3 signings there, we only will actually get one (Vermaelen)

why are you so sure that if we get a defender, it will be Vermaelen?
I would have put Blind ahead of him - younger, more positional flexibility, Van Gaal has worked with him before...

Mitch Connor

ericzeking wrote: »

What's the magic number for the fee that you have in your head?

Remember now we spent 28m on Fellaini, 37m on Mata, 27m on Shaw, 30m on Herrerra.

40million was the price for Fabregas last summer.

On Vidal, I don't know what his price would be - 45million or so seems to be the talk going around, but I don't know if that is true or not. I do believe Vidal would be sold, at the right price, by Juve.

bucketybuck

weisses wrote: »

In Fairness those kind of remarks where made about the Dutch squad as well before the WC ... And look what happened

If the squad is in bits then that is what LvG will focus on ... Big name signings doesn't make you better necessarily

Balance in the squad and player fitness both physically and mentally is what is needed first

This is the sort of wishy washy crap that winds me up.

The Dutch squad did well at the world cup, fair play to them, means **** all to this United squad in the Premier league.

Balance in the squad? What, the balance of having no defenders and rubbish midfielders? All the mental fitness in the world ain't fixing that problem.

bullvine

How do we know Fellaini is not going to be given a chance?

Mitch Connor

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

I think our squad is relatively ok this season without Europe to worry about. Of course we need a midfielder and a defender but aside from that I don't see the panic.

We have ONE right back. ONE left back. 3 injury prone senior defenders, mistake prone too one could argue. Then we get onto the midfield issue, and the lack of quality on the wing.

How you can say our squad is ok is beyond me.

homerjay2005

bullvine wrote: »

How do we know Fellaini is not going to be given a chance?

we dont, but theres talk out there that we are trying to flog him and Napoli are interested.

MagicIRL

Mitch Connor wrote: »

We have ONE right back. ONE left back. 3 injury prone senior defenders, mistake prone too one could argue. Then we get onto the midfield issue, and the lack of quality on the wing.

How you can say our squad is ok is beyond me.

Both Smalling and Jones can play RB. So that's one decent RB and two covers. Valencia can play Wingback and RB if needed.

Shaw is playing LB, and Young is covering at wingback. This needs to be addressed.

In midfield we have Fletcher, Carrick, Herrera, Cleverley and Fellaini. Not ideal but there is cover there. ****e cover, but cover none the less.

Mitch Connor

Coat22 wrote: »

So I think it is fair to say the squad is in bits (“Broken” as VG put it) but a couple of CBs and a CM would start putting it right pretty quickly.

On the broken comment.... I am convinced Van Gaal meant mentally broken - as in short of confidence and belief after last season. When he said the squad was broken, he said it in the context of Moyes getting a squad of champions, while he got a broken squad (basically the same squads) as a result of finishing 7th.

He may well also think the balance (he has said this) and quality isn't up to scratch, but I don't think that is what he was referring to when he says broken.

Mitch Connor

MagicIRL wrote: »

Both Smalling and Jones can play RB. So that's one decent RB and two covers. Valencia can play Wingback and RB if needed.

Shaw is playing LB, and Young is covering at wingback. This needs to be addressed.

In midfield we have Fletcher, Carrick, Herrera, Cleverley and Fellaini. Not ideal but there is cover there. ****e cover, but cover none the less.

Smalling and Jones are crap at right back, may as well say we can play Carrick there. Valencia is crap at right back, might be a good wing back.

All you are basically saying is the squad is ok because we have a lot of players. To me that is rubbish. If the cover (or first team option) is rubbish then the squad is weak as a result.

bucketybuck

v3ttel wrote: »

Fletch has probably played the most amount of minutes of anyone on the tour so far, has been very good in both games, and one of our better players overall. He looks incredibly fit thus far.

To completely write him off as being "finished" is crazy given that:

- He's proved that over the short term (last 9 months or so), his illness hasn't caused him to be unavailable
- He's showing signs of getting back to his best.
- He looks incredibly fit and has taken a full part in pre-season, playing more minutes than most
- He's said since his operation he feels back to normal.

Let's judge at the end of the season. IMHO, he is well worth his place as a third/fourth choice midfielder in the squad, right now. The main issue is that we to sign a world class midfielder to play alongside Herrera.

Oh come on. Ignoring for now how little a pre-season tour means to anything Fletcher has frequently been unavailable in the last nine months. Have you forgotten what I think was the Fulham game where we had to move Rooney back into midfield while Fletcher sat on the bench? More than that, we haD no midfield last season yet in the second half of the season Fletcher was never a first choice player, now why was that?

And getting back to his best? Even when he did play he was rarely anything more than adequate. Lets be realistic about the lad here.

bucketybuck

MagicIRL wrote: »

Both Smalling and Jones can play RB.

Grand. So who is CB when they are playing RB?

RasTa

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Smalling and Jones are crap at right back, may as well say we can play Carrick there. Valencia is crap at right back, might be a good wing back.

All you are basically saying is the squad is ok because we have a lot of players. To me that is rubbish. If the cover (or first team option) is rubbish then the squad is weak as a result.

We aren't playing a 4-4-2 under Van Gaal so anybody playing as a wingback needs to get up and down. Valencia and Rafael are good enough for this job.

Hence why Nani will be leaving. We still however need someone on the left as Jan won't be able to play in that system.

MagicIRL

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Smalling and Jones are crap at right back, may as well say we can play Carrick there. Valencia is crap at right back, might be a good wing back.

All you are basically saying is the squad is ok because we have a lot of players. To me that is rubbish. If the cover (or first team option) is rubbish then the squad is weak as a result.

You asked how he could say the squad was ok, I pointed out how he could say it.

Our squad is ok. It's not great, fantastic or world changing, but it is ok. We won't get relegated, therefor the squad is ok. I'm not happy with it, but I'm not going to sensationalise things.

MagicIRL

bucketybuck wrote: »

Grand. So who is CB when they are playing RB?

I suppose Keane and Blackett are on tour for the sun tan.

Mr.Prodston

Mitch Connor wrote: »

We have ONE right back. ONE left back. 3 injury prone senior defenders, mistake prone too one could argue. Then we get onto the midfield issue, and the lack of quality on the wing.

How you can say our squad is ok is beyond me.

Am I allowed to assume United will be playing 3-4-1-2/3-5-2 variations next season?
GK: De gea, Lindegaard, Amos

CBs: Jones, Evans, Smalling, New Defender, maybe x2, Keane, Blackett

RB/RWB: Rafael, Valencia

LB/LWB: Shaw, Young (no not totally happy but willing to give him a chance if LVG seems content, James

CM: Herrera, Cleverley, Carrick, Fletcher, New midifelder, Fellaini, Kagawa (seems like LVG may play him there)

No 10: Mata, AJ, Kagawa, Lawrence

Forwards: Rooney, RVP, Welbeck, Hernandez, Wilson

That's not a small squad, I'm making the point that we can give young players a chance. No where did I say it was anywhere close to perfect. I'm the first to acknowledge we need defenders and a midfielder. I would love another RB, LB and 2 new CBs to play alongside Evans.

Also I said "relatively" ok suggesting we needed to be strengthened. We cut the deadwood and strengthen going forward.

homerjay2005

clear message from LVG for Woodward to get his act together.

LvG: "We must improve the first team squad, not only by training sessions but also transfers, cause all the other clubs are doing the same".

bucketybuck

MagicIRL wrote: »

I suppose Keane and Blackett are on tour for the sun tan.

I suppose you really think we will mount a title challenge with the likes of Keane and Blackett?

I can't wait for our first big game against Chelsea or City and because of injury the defence is Shaw, Evans, Keane Blackett and Jones. That will be just super.

Backstreet Moyes

MagicIRL wrote: »

I suppose Keane and Blackett are on tour for the sun tan.

What have they about 2 minutes first team football between them.

MagicIRL

bucketybuck wrote: »

I suppose you really think we will mount a title challenge with the likes of Keane and Blackett?

I can't wait for our first big game against Chelsea or City and because of injury the defence is Shaw, Evans, Keane Blackett and Jones. That will be just super.

I think you need to go and figure out what the term "relatively ok" actually means. No one is saying we're going to title challenge with the squad.

You don't win things with kids anyway.

Coat22

Mitch Connor wrote: »

On the broken comment.... I am convinced Van Gaal meant mentally broken - as in short of confidence and belief after last season. When he said the squad was broken, he said it in the context of Moyes getting a squad of champions, while he got a broken squad (basically the same squads) as a result of finishing 7th.

He may well also think the balance (he has said this) and quality isn't up to scratch, but I don't think that is what he was referring to when he says broken.

Hope you’re right (As that’s easily fixed) but don’t think so.

I think he meant it was broken in that it has no senior defenders (Rafael for Gods sake is the most experienced and he always seems to me to be bluffing it somehow), no first class mid fielders (hence he gave the nod for Herrara whom he said was “not his choice” but who will hopefully add some flair to the team) and whole load of number 10s.

He’s on record about the defenders (in fairness it doesn’t take a genius to figure out we need defenders) and hopefully can re-invent some of the others to cover for some areas (Young/Valencia/Kagawa) but that’s just short term.

It won’t get fixed in one window but hopefully he addresses the first XI in this one and uses subsequent windows to address the cover options he has (or hasn’t) available

Mitch Connor

MagicIRL wrote: »

You asked how he could say the squad was ok, I pointed out how he could say it.

Our squad is ok. It's not great, fantastic or world changing, but it is ok. We won't get relegated, therefor the squad is ok. I'm not happy with it, but I'm not going to sensationalise things.

Manchester United won't get relegated, therefore the squad is ok. What wonderful aspirations.

Cookiemunster

bucketybuck wrote: »

I suppose you really think we will mount a title challenge with the likes of Keane and Blackett?

I can't wait for our first big game against Chelsea or City and because of injury the defence is Shaw, Evans, Keane Blackett and Jones. That will be just super.

Anyone who thinks we'll mount a title challenge this season is delusional. We're too far behind Chelsea and City. Top 4 is the target.

bucketybuck

MagicIRL wrote: »

No one is saying we're going to title challenge with the squad.

Sad isn't it, how far we have fallen.

SlickRic

Manchester United have had a £47m bid for Juventus midfielder Arturo Vidal accepted.

From TransferScoop's Twitter.

MagicIRL

bucketybuck wrote: »

Sad isn't it, how far we have fallen.

What's sad is that anyone who deviates from the norm in this thread is hopped on by people who don't correctly read before the type.

C'est la vie of a football fan I'm afraid.

bangkok

http://www.emol.com/noticias/deportes/2014/07/28/672164/juventus-se-pondria-plazo-hasta-el-6-de-agosto-para-negociar-una-probable-salida-de-vidal.html

basically saying utd did a medical check on vidal in chile..

Adamcp898

homerjay2005 wrote: »

clear message from LVG for Woodward to get his act together.

Noticed that in the press releases after the Inter game. I still think we're oinly after squad quality defenders though

However.......

Manchester United's owners have piled the pressure on new boss Louis van Gaal by stressing the potential financial perils of failure to qualify for the UEFA Champions League for a second consecutive season.

After David Moyes' dismal reign as manager at Old Trafford last term the club find themselves without European football for the first time since 1995, and a prospectus released by the club highlights the dangers of failing to re-establish themselves in the top four at the first time of asking.

The document also revealed that the highly-publicised 10-year kit deal with adidas is dependent on results and will drop 30 per cent from £75million to £52.5m if the club fail to qualify for the Champions League in two consecutive seasons.

The news comes as the Glazer family, who own the club, are set to draw out £89m by reducing their shareholding in the club to 85%.

The prospectus says: 'Because of the prestige associated with participating in the European competitions, particularly the Champions League, failure to qualify for any European competition, particularly for consecutive seasons, would negatively affect our ability to attract and retain talented players and coaching staff, as well as supporters, sponsors and other commercial partners.

'Failure to participate in the Champions League for two or more consecutive seasons would also reduce annual payments under the recently announced agreement with adidas by 30 per cent of the applicable payment for the year in which the second or other consecutive season of non-participation falls.'

United's combined broadcasting and matchday revenue from Europe has fallen in the last three years from £59.7m in 2011 to £38.9m in 2013

....I hope leaving everything in no uncertain terms like this prospectus does lights a fire under either Ed's or LvG's ass to be a bit more ambitious than just squad players.

MagicIRL

SlickRic wrote: »

From TransferScoop's Twitter.

Coat22

SlickRic wrote: »

From TransferScoop's Twitter.

Stop that

Headshot

I think ill burst into tears of happiness if Vidal joins, not a chance thou

TheDoc

hahahah

Image of a doctor holding my baby in his hands saying " What's this it's holding ?"

And hands me a piece of paper that says "Vidal, done deal, #itk"

bangkok

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Anyone who thinks we'll mount a title challenge this season is delusional. We're too far behind Chelsea and City. Top 4 is the target.

wont win anything with kids

MagicIRL

TheDoc wrote: »

hahahah

Image of a doctor holding my baby in his hands saying " What's this it's holding ?"

And hands me a piece of paper that says "Vidal, done deal, #itk"

If your baby pops out and Vidal signs, you're naming him Arturo, right? Or maybe Árturo, gotta' get that Irish fáda in.

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

hahahah

Image of a doctor holding my baby in his hands saying " What's this it's holding ?"

And hands me a piece of paper that says "Vidal, done deal, #itk"

Which then quickly turns into a nightmare as Bangkok bursts through the doors shouting "WHERES MA BABY!"

TheDoc

MagicIRL wrote: »

If your baby pops out and Vidal signs, you're naming him Arturo, right? Or maybe Árturo, gotta' get that Irish fáda in.

Toni was on the cards until he moved to Madrid. Fears that we'd be handed the baby and he'd walk away with other parents.

RasTa

SlickRic wrote: »

From TransferScoop's Twitter.

Wtf is this crap?

Previous tweet

TransferScoop @TransferScoop · Jul 23
Manchester United have agreed a stunning £16m fee for Borussia Dortmund defender Mats Hummels.

Larry Wildman

Eh, I'm getting texts saying that Vidal is done at £47m?

advertsfox

Don't be minding those Twitter posts, 99% pure bull**** that everyone repeats. On a lighter note, the BBC have reported on the Vidal situation

BBC Sport wrote:

Italian newspaper Gazzetta dello Sport is reporting that the future of Juventus midfielder Arturo Vidal is increasingly uncertain.

They say Vidal will in the next few hours communicate his desire to leave the Italian giants for Manchester United in a deal reportedly worth 60m euros (£48m).

http://www.bbc.com/sport/live/28528127

Maximus Alexander

advertsfox wrote: »

On a lighter note, the BBC have reported on the Vidal situation

http://www.bbc.com/sport/live/28528127

Well, they haven't really. They've reported that someone else has reported on it. :P