Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 13/8

Maximus Alexander

TimeToShine wrote: »

This series of posts deserves so, so much more credit than it got.

For the soccer forum, they got a hell of a lot of credit...

Mitch Connor

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Ya a blind spot of looking past what he does off the field and can see what he can do on the field.

You are just getting worked up about how he became famous and what he has done for himself, you just want to begrudge him.

If Madrid had so many star names that could sell papers, why would they need to buy Beckham when they already had the players that sold shirts and papers?

Beckham was only big in the Media in England, a bit like Rooney.

Madrid didnt need to sell papers in England or branch out in England because they werent known.

Beckham was HUGE in Asia. HUGE.

Larry Wildman

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Ya a blind spot of looking past what he does off the field and can see what he can do on the field.

You are just getting worked up about how he became famous and what he has done for himself, you just want to begrudge him.

If Madrid had so many star names that could sell papers, why would they need to buy Beckham when they already had the players that sold shirts and papers?

Beckham was only big in the Media in England, a bit like Rooney.

Madrid didnt need to sell papers in England or branch out in England because they werent known.

You're conveniently ignoring Beckham's massive worldwide appeal, Asia in particular.

To be honest, I'm shocked that people are disputing this. But then blind loyalty from fans should never be shocking.

Spazdarn

Larry Wildman wrote: »

It was rubbish in your view.

Unfortunately people in this thread have blind spots in relation to certain players.

The outpourings of love for jokers like Dimitar Berbatov are a prime example, as is this Beckham stuff and as is the Rio Ferdinand stuff.

There's a difference between loyalty and blind loyalty.

Beckham had a certain skillset and he made the utmost best of his abilities. He was definitely world class, and one of if not the best person in his position.

How is any of that based on his celebrity status

Cypher_sounds

Looks like Liverpool about to sign two defenders in one go while woodie is probably trying to negotiate another deal with a sponsor.

Mitch Connor

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Looks like Liverpool about to sign two defenders in one go while woodie is probably trying to negotiate another deal with a sponsor.

the reality of United, players aren't important. It is a pathetically ran club on the playing side.

Spazdarn

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Beckham was HUGE in Asia. HUGE.

Remember stories of Asian teenagers getting pictures with a toilet seat he may or may not have sat on while he visiting

:S

dahat

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If United aren't after Vidal (and WHY THE FECK NOT??) then who are we after? Surely LVG can't think the midfield options we have are good enough? The guy can't be that stupid, can he?

There is no way it is rumbling on this long without any interest from Utd, no journo has asked LVG himself about Vidal which given the media and Twitter mess over it seems pretty odd to me.

I say the club are playing a pretty good game of bluff with alot of the home media on this, if he fails to come they are covered by the pretty lame denials.

NoviGlitzko

Don't know if this was already posted. La Tercera saying we have agreed personal terms with Vidal for a 200k salary. 48M. Getting number 7 shirt.

Cypher_sounds

Mitch Connor wrote: »

the reality of United, players aren't important. It is a pathetically ran club on the playing side.

No doubt that sponsors are important but more important is quality of players and it seems we are happy with the alternative player rather than the best. ie we got Herrera when we should have Fabergas.

TheTownie

Larry Wildman wrote: »

To what end?

His contract was renewed pretty recently.

Because of FFP, others seem hamstrung.

If it'd a "come get me" plea, then why don't we just do it?! If we don't want him, that's worrying.

I don't know what Vidal is at tbh but if Vidal wanted Utd to come get him then I'm confident he could get in touch with Utd privately, not publicly through El Mercurio.

keane2097

Larry Wildman wrote: »

You're conveniently ignoring Beckham's massive worldwide appeal, Asia in particular.

To be honest, I'm shocked that people are disputing this. But then blind loyalty from fans should never be shocking.

I'm not convinced one bit by you Larry.

The Moldy Gowl

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Beckham was HUGE in Asia. HUGE.

Dammit you're right.

So he was bought just to sell jerseys over there. Thats why we signed Park and Kagawa.


It all makes sense now.

Spazdarn

Why do people get so worked up by Player has agreed terms with club. Until the clubs agree a fee it doesn't matter a s%^t

bullvine

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Beckham had a certain skillset and he made the utmost best of his abilities. He was definitely world class, and one of if not the best person in his position.

How is any of that based on his celebrity status

Beckham World class? I am not so sure.

MagicIRL

What about that Nani guy eh? What a cod!

Coat22

fitze69 wrote: »

It's not a difference between loyalty and blind loyalty, it's just a difference of opinion between you and others. I'm more partial to certain players from the 90's because that's when I really got into supporting United, I'm sure others are the same about the 70's or 00's etc.

I’d say its more telling of the demographics of this board.

IMHO Stam was the best defender I’ve seen playing for united in the past 30 years. But another thing worth bearing in mind when comparing defenders is whats playing in front of them. Maybe Stam looked better because he has Keane at his peak playing in front of him. Likewise both Pallister (at the start) and Ferdinand (after the start) both had average mid fields in front of them. McGrath was the one of the best readers of the game I’ve ever seen (he had to be because he couldn’t run) but he played in a poor team (and had other “issues”) so will never be rated.

In 10 years time someone will probably be on a 2024 version of boards screaming that some as yet unknown Eastern Ukranian (after they won independence in 2019) was the best defender ever to play for United and that Ferdinand was so prone to lapses in concentration he once forgot to take a p1ss and ended up banned for 9 months and uproar will ensue and the great debate will go on forever.

Spazdarn

bullvine wrote: »

Beckham World class? I am not so sure.

Depends on your definition of World Class. But I'd imagine he was definitely in a very select group of players that could claim to be the best in his position at the time. He was key to United success, did well enough at Real. Was hugely important to England throughout his international career.

Mikeyt086

Larry Wildman wrote: »

It was rubbish in your view.

Unfortunately people in this thread have blind spots in relation to certain players.

The outpourings of love for jokers like Dimitar Berbatov are a prime example, as is this Beckham stuff and as is the Rio Ferdinand stuff.

There's a difference between loyalty and blind loyalty.

Liam O

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

No doubt that sponsors are important but more important is quality of players and it seems we are happy with the alternative player rather than the best. ie we got Herrera when we should have Fabergas.

Or someone who's been in form for the last season over someone who hasn't? Herrera is more of an all rounder than Fabregas too who is mainly an attacker now.

Larry Wildman

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Beckham had a certain skillset and he made the utmost best of his abilities. He was definitely world class, and one of if not the best person in his position.

How is any of that based on his celebrity status

How can I express this in simple terms...

There were four orginal Galacticos. Ronaldo, Figo, Zidane and Beckham. The first three are arguably in the top 20 players of all time. Beckham is arguably nowhere near that standard. Yet in people's minds, he's up there.

NoviGlitzko

I'd just like to add on the Beckham debate: It's insulting that some of you Beckham naysayers are dismissing others as partially blinded by medias hyped image of him. if anything this makes him underrated by some as there are many who think like you in that way.

He was world class without a doubt in my book, and will probably never see a better dead ball delivery in our lifetime. Yorkes goal against Bayern to put us 2-1 up away in 1999 tells you a lot about his ability.

MagicIRL

You can insult Beckham. You can insult Fergie. But don't you ever, EVER, insult that glorious human that is Berbatov.

What a ****ing legend.

beakerjoe

Larry Wildman wrote: »

How can I express this in simple terms...

There were four orginal Galacticos. Ronaldo, Figo, Zidane and Beckham. The first three are arguably in the top 20 players of all time. Beckham is arguably nowhere near that standard. Yet in people's minds, he's up there.

Ah he was near that standard. Come on now Father, your not dead again are you?

TheDoc

Coat22 wrote: »

BTW (and I know I’ll probably get eaten alive for this) but I’d take issue with Ferdinand and Vidic being “the best two defenders in the history of the club” – how old are you? 13?

We have had plenty of great CB's at the club, but Vidic and Ferdinand were the only recognised pair, as World Class, on global reputation.

Previously our only other really widely recognised world class CB was Jaap Stam. Blanc unfortunately was on the tail end of his career.

While many make the argument for Bruce and Pallister, while both were fine Premier League players and as a pairing, they were nowhere near the level of the top CB pairs operating in Europe at the time.

Rio and Vidic were recognised, at the highest level, of being two of the best operators in the business. And that was backed up by multiple league titles and Champions league final appearances. No one really comes close to them, regardless off history.

So please enlighten us with your wisdom and inform us who the better pairings were?

Spazdarn

Larry Wildman wrote: »

How can I express this in simple terms...

There were four orginal Galacticos. Ronaldo, Figo, Zidane and Beckham. The first three are arguably in the top 20 players of all time. Beckham is arguably nowhere near that standard. Yet in people's minds, he's up there.

I am not claiming he was close to them, but as mentioned before that's not to say he was a great player, paling in comparison to them.

To say a player isn't great or is overrated because he's not (and in your opinion) not in the top 20 players of all time is ridiculous.

Maximus Alexander

Coat22 wrote: »

In 10 years time someone will probably be on a 2024 version of boards screaming that some as yet unknown Eastern Ukranian (after they won independence in 2019) was the best defender ever to play for United and that Ferdinand was so prone to lapses in concentration he once forgot to take a p1ss and ended up banned for 9 months and uproar will ensue and the great debate will go on forever.

And maybe they'll be right.

The Moldy Gowl

Im So so so soooory guys

Liam O

I agree with Larry on this one even if I don't agree with how he's gone about it. You ask regular people to name the best United player from the 90s and they'll probably think of Beckham before Keane, Scholes, Giggs, Cantona etc. yet I don't think he was better or more important than any of those players and his celebrity status inflated his reputation as a player.

Cookiemunster

Coat22 wrote: »

I’d say its more telling of the demographics of this board.

You have no idea of the demographics of this board. There are plenty on here of us in our late 30's / 40's. I'm 38 and I disagree with most of your you opinions. Does that fit with your demographics theory?

fitzer1982

It could be argued that Figo isn't one of the top 20 players of all time in fairness.

Iused2likebusts

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If United aren't after Vidal (and WHY THE FECK NOT??) then who are we after? Surely LVG can't think the midfield options we have are good enough? The guy can't be that stupid, can he?

James Mccarthy has been backed in to fairly short odds sky sports are reporting probably nothing in it though.

Larry Wildman

fitze69 wrote: »

It could be argued that Figo isn't one of the top 20 players of all time in fairness.

It could.

I would venture that Beckham is not in the top 100 players of all time.

keane2097

Liam O wrote: »

I agree with Larry on this one even if I don't agree with how he's gone about it. You ask regular people to name the best United player from the 90s and they'll probably think of Beckham before Keane, Scholes, Giggs, Cantona etc.

[ ] Citation needed

No way that's correct IMO

fitzer1982

Liam O wrote: »

I agree with Larry on this one even if I don't agree with how he's gone about it. You ask regular people to name the best United player from the 90s and they'll probably think of Beckham before Keane, Scholes, Giggs, Cantona etc. yet I don't think he was better or more important than any of those players and his celebrity status inflated his reputation as a player.

No No No, I'm going to try represent the early 30's group here but not one of the lads who support United(that i know) would put Beckham as the best player from the 90's. He was one of our best players, no doubt about that, his contribution in 99 was immense but what about Cantona and Keane, has to be a toss up between the two for the 90's.

Liam O

TheDoc wrote: »

So please enlighten us with your wisdom and inform us who the better pairings were?

Thought of this

bullvine

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Depends on your definition of World Class. But I'd imagine he was definitely in a very select group of players that could claim to be the best in his position at the time. He was key to United success, did well enough at Real. Was hugely important to England throughout his international career.

He was a very good player, had a great career, was a great player for United. I just don't don't think he was a truly world class player in his prime. He lost his place in the United team to Solskjaer when was in his prime and was shipped out.

He was never even close to winning the PFA award as a United player, he finished runner up to Rivaldo in 99 in the Balon D'or when their had been 5-6 players better than him in the Treble season which I could never fathom.

bangkok

Larry Wildman wrote: »

It could.

I would venture that Beckham is not in the top 100 players of all time.

Honours

Club

Manchester United

• Premier League (6): 1995–96, 1996–97, 1998–99, 1999–2000, 2000–01, 2002–03
• FA Cup (2): 1995–96, 1998–99
• FA Community Shield (4): 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997
• FA Youth Cup (1): 1991–92
• UEFA Champions League (1): 1998–99
• Intercontinental Cup (1): 1999

Real Madrid

• La Liga (1): 2006–07
• Supercopa de España (1): 2003

Los Angeles Galaxy

• MLS Cup (2): 2011, 2012
• MLS Supporters' Shield (2): 2010, 2011
• MLS Western Conference
  • Winners (Regular Season) (3): 2009, 2010, 2011
  • Winners (Playoffs) (3): 2009, 2011, 2012

Paris Saint-Germain

• Ligue 1 (1): 2012–13

International

England

• Tournoi de France: 1997
• FA Summer Tournament: 2004

Individual

• 1999 Ballon d'Or: Silver Award
• Premier League Player of the Month (1): August 1996
• PFA Young Player of the Year (1): 1996–97
• FWA Tribute Award: 2008
• Sir Matt Busby Player of the Year (1): 1996–97
• England Player of the Year: 2003
• UEFA Club Footballer of the Year (1): 1998–99
• UEFA Club Midfielder of the Year (1): 1998–99
• Premier League 10 Seasons Awards (1992–93 to 2001–02):
  • Domestic & Overall Team of the Decade
  • Goal of the Decade (vs. Wimbledon, 17 August 1996)
• BBC Sports Personality of the Year (1): 2001
• UEFA Team of the Year: 2001, 2003
• Real Madrid Player of the Year (1): 2005–2006
• PFA Team of the Year (4): 1996–97,1997–98,1998–99,1999–2000
• FIFA 100[266]
• ESPY Award – Best Male Soccer Player: 2004[267]
• ESPY Award – Best MLS Player (2): 2008, 2012
• English Football Hall of Fame: 2008
• BBC Sports Personality of the Year Lifetime Achievement Award (1): 2010[268]
• MLS Comeback Player of the Year Award (1): 2011[269]

Orders and special awards

• Officer of the Order of the British Empire by Queen Elizabeth II: 2003
• United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) Goodwill Ambassador (2005–present)
• "Britain's Greatest Ambassador" – 100 Greatest Britons awards[270]
• The Celebrity 100, number 15 – Forbes, 2007[271]
• Number 1 on the list of the 40 most influential men under the age of 40 in the UK[272] – Arena, 2007
• Time 100: 2008[273]
• Gold Blue Peter Badge winner, 2001
• Do Something Athlete Award, 2011[274]

Records

• First Englishman to win league titles in four different countries (England, Spain, USA, France)
• First England player to score at three World Cups
• First British footballer to play 100 Champions League games
• Has the joint-second most goal assists in European Championship finals history
• The 400th Paris Saint-Germain player
• Has been England's best regular World Cup player since England last won it in 1966 – having created the most chances.
• Third in the Premier League's all time time assist provider chart, with 152 assists in 265 appearances.[275]

if that's not the work of a world class player nothing is..

fatherted1969

Beckham was a great player, certainly in the top group of players that have ever played for Utd. He produced in several different leagues and has won honours in all he played in. Best technique ive ever seen at utd in dead ball, crossing situations. He should never be grouped in the the same category as Zidane, Maradona, Messi, Ronaldo etc imo

Liam O

keane2097 wrote: »

[ ] Citation needed

No way that's correct IMO

Note I didn't say United fan, but Beckham was the most popular jersey choice, even in Ireland with probably our best ever player in the team at the time and Irwin too, you were still far more likely to see a Beckham shirt.

Larry Wildman

bullvine wrote: »

He was a very good player, had a great career, was a great player for United. I just don't don't think he was a truly world class player in his prime. He lost his place in the United team to Solskjaer when was in his prime and was shipped out.

He was never even close to winning the PFA award as a United player, he finished runner up to Rivaldo in 99 in the Balon D'or when their had been 5-6 players better than him in the Treble season which I could never fathom.

Spot on.

bullvine

Fergie didn't have him down as a World class player that's enough for me!

bucketybuck

dahat wrote: »

I say the club are playing a pretty good game of bluff with alot of the home media on this, if he fails to come they are covered by the pretty lame denials.

This posits that United are indeed trying to buy the player, in which case the obvious question is why the **** it takes them so long. Why is it weeks upon weeks without getting either a yes or a no?

Coat22 wrote: »

Likewise both Pallister (at the start) and Ferdinand (after the start) both had average mid fields in front of them.

Pallister had the likes of Bryan Robson, Paul Ince and then Roy Keane in front of him, as far from average as you could possibly get.

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Beckham is arguably nowhere near that standard. Yet in people's minds, he's up there.

Thats the same strawman you pulled the last time also.

fitzer1982

Liam O wrote: »

Note I didn't say United fan, but Beckham was the most popular jersey choice, even in Ireland with probably our best ever player in the team at the time and Irwin too, you were still far more likely to see a Beckham shirt.

I again would disagree with that, Keane was by far the most popular choice for name on a jersey in my area.

Maximus Alexander

I really enjoy our weekly Beckham debate.

Al Capwned

^^^ was just gonna ask is it last week again.

Will I Amnt

Coat22 wrote: »

Plenty of chances with Ferdinand and his inability to play over the past couple of seasons, if he was up to it he’d have dislodged him 3 or 4 seasons back (I know. I know. Ferdinand made it to the team of the year in 12/13 and is therefore untouchable). Vidic also has missed most of the last 2 seasons with injury and yet Evans was unable to make an impact.

You make your opportunities – if you’re good enough you will get your chances. Evans had plenty but couldn’t make the most of them.

BTW (and I know I’ll probably get eaten alive for this) but I’d take issue with Ferdinand and Vidic being “the best two defenders in the history of the club” – how old are you? 13?

If you bothered to ready my post properly you would have seen I said 2 of the best not the 2 best.

keane2097

Liam O wrote: »

Note I didn't say United fan, but Beckham was the most popular jersey choice, even in Ireland with probably our best ever player in the team at the time and Irwin too, you were still far more likely to see a Beckham shirt.

If you can find me anyone who'll claim Beckham was a better player than Keane I'll be pretty surprised.

bucketybuck

Liam O wrote: »

You ask regular people to name the best United player from the 90s and they'll probably think of Beckham before Keane, Scholes, Giggs, Cantona etc.

What relevance does this even have? What does it matter which footballer your granny remembers?

Football fans simply do not place Beckham ahead of Keane or Cantona, and the opinions of non-football fans are pretty irrelevant to a serious football discussion. You can't claim Beckham is overrated because the only footballer some housewife knows is Beckham.

homerjay2005

two weeks to the swansea game and we have 4 gaps in our first 11 at the moment

RB injured
vidic not replaced
rio not replaced
carrick injured.

at least 3 signings needed and nothing done to address it so far. how on earth has it come to this, again?