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5 amp light socket - extension idea

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    #62
    mikeyjames9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 700 ✭✭✭mikeyjames9


    Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »
    For someone to put a plug top on an appliance and regard it as messing around with electrics is unfair in my book.

    it is fair to say that they should be permanently marked for their purpose


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    #63
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »
    For someone to put a plug top on an appliance and regard it as messing around with electrics is unfair in my book.

    The plug top clearly says 5amps on it too.

    If you ignore that and connect more than 5 amps to it don't blame the old plug design!


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    #64
    mikeyjames9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 700 ✭✭✭mikeyjames9


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    The plug top clearly says 5amps on it too.

    If you ignore that and connect more than 5 amps to it don't blame the old plug design!

    mr daleys argument is a stretch

    if you're competent enough to wire a plug you should be able to differentiate between a 13amp plug designed for general appliances and sufficient for the boiler and a 5amp plug


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    #65
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »
    For someone to put a plug top on an appliance and regard it as messing around with electrics is unfair in my book.

    Does it really matter if it is referred to as "messing" or not if it causes a serious accident?

    You should focus more on the dangerous of working with a lethal voltage when you do not know what you are doing and less on what your creation is referred to.


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    #66
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    carlson wrote: »
    All my rooms have dimmers connected to 5 amp sockets


    The issues that I would have with this are:
    1) It would be possible to plug a light into a 5A socket that may not be compatible with the dimmer.
    2) It is possible to plug in too large a load and overload the dimmer.

    I also have spots with dimmers , in fact there are dimmers in every room except for the kids rooms.


    Once the dimmers are suitably selected for the light fittings that they feed this is not a problem.


    i.e. can two lamps be plugged into one 5 amp socket if the third one is never used.


    Generally this is OK, but it needs to be checked.
    What you need to do is look at the loading in relation to the circuit.
    How many watts are each light? How many lights are there?
    How many 5A sockets are there per circuit?


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    #67
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    The plug top clearly says 5amps on it too.

    If you ignore that and connect more than 5 amps to it don't blame the old plug design!

    Does your average home owner know the difference between 5 or 13 amps? i dont think so. It would be a stretch if they could give an explanation of what amps actually means.
    5 amp sockets and the way they are wired to the regs need changing in my opinion anyway.


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    #68
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    Bruthal wrote: »
    If John plugs a 3kw heater and his 3kw burko into a twin socket, that socket will be over loaded probably. So all his twin 13 amp sockets have a flaw going by that criteria.

    Or maybe John will plug the burco into an uncoiled extension lead, and burn the house down. Flawed extension lead.

    5 amp sockets maybe should have it clearly written on them.

    But that won't prevent the possibility of John connecting his 5 amp plug.

    Maybe a 110v one will arrive from eBay. The possible flaws are endless in electrical, and life.

    I never argued that there are other potential flaws, I was being specific to 5 amp sockets. Them other scenarios you mentioned are debate for another thread.


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    #69
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »
    Does your average home owner know the difference between 5 or 13 amps?

    If they don't then they should not be getting involved in electrical work.
    5 amp sockets and the way they are wired to the regs need changing in my opinion anyway.

    Does your average home owner read the regs?

    Why do you think the regulations need to change?


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    #70
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    2011 wrote: »
    If they don't then they should not be getting involved in electrical work.

    Yes you have made your view quiet clear already so that ends that debate. My example was down to a home owner wiring a simple plug top.
    Does your average home owner read the regs?

    Apples and oranges.
    Why do you think the regulations need to change?

    If you personally see no need to improve 5 amp socket wiring then that is your view and I respect that. Everyone will have their own opinion.


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    #71
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »
    If you personally see no need to improve 5 amp socket wiring then that is your view and I respect that.

    I have yet to see or hear of any issue with 5A sockets that were installed properly. Have you? If this was not the case I may have a different view.

    You have yet to tell me why you think the regulations need to be changed.
    What do you suggest they should be changed to?


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    #72
    mikeyjames9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 700 ✭✭✭mikeyjames9


    his concern is about the mismatch between rating of lightswitch/unfused
    outlet and the circuit mcb

    you can argue that they should be rated according to protective device to prevent damage in case of misuse by consumers

    it hasn't proven to be a cause for concern and I believe proper marking on outlet should suffice


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    #73
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »
    I never argued that there are other potential flaws, I was being specific to 5 amp sockets. Them other scenarios you mentioned are debate for another thread.

    Yea but there are few issues due to any of those flaws. I doubt the average householder will be connecting burco boilers to their lighting sockets.

    Clear label is enough imo.


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    #74
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    I'd strongly suspect the 5amp plug is completely over engineered anyway.

    The original propose of those plugs was to be a different size to the 2 and 15 amp plugs and different sized plugs were used on different circuits.

    The pins on those plugs are as big as 16amp Schuko although they don't make contact with anything like the surface area of the pin.

    I can't really see any lethally dangerous issues with two table lamps being plugged into one of them though.

    Just don't exceed 6amps on the dimmer, or whatever its rating is and don't exceed the maximum rating of the circuit.


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    #75
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    mikeyjames9 wrote: »
    his concern is about the mismatch between rating of lightswitch/unfused
    outlet and the circuit mcb

    So that is what the "John and Mary happily married couple planning their daughters communion party" story was all about? :D:D

    Why didn't he just say so? :confused:
    you can argue that they should be rated according to protective device to prevent damage in case of misuse by consumers

    One of the problems with electricity is that it is impossible to prevent misuse.
    I have seen tinfoil around fuses, wire mains voltage lights wired in alarm cable (yes really, and the guy that did it would not accept that there was an issue with it), wire an instantaneous shower from ceiling rose, the list is endless.
    it hasn't proven to be a cause for concern and I believe proper marking on outlet should suffice

    I agree, is it ain't broken don't fix it!

    In my opinion the issue is not with the National Rules for Electrical Installations, ET101:2008. The problem is the lack of compliance with these rules.
    To me this appears to be due to individuals simply not understanding what they are doing or simply not caring.

    The ETCI define a competent person as:
    "For the purposes of the relevant statutory provisions, a person is deemed to be a competent person where, having regard to the task he or she is required to perform and taking account of the size or hazards (or both of them) of the undertaking or establishment in which he or she undertakes work, the person possesses sufficient training, experience and knowledge appropriate to the nature of the work to be undertaken."

    This definition does not apply to in the "John & Mary" story above that provided what Sir Arthur referred to as a "solution".

    People are quick to forget that the ETCI is made up of a staff that all work on a voluntary basis and offer expert advice and assistance to professionals and the general public for free.


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    #76
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    2011 wrote: »
    So that is what the "John and Mary happily married couple planning their daughters communion party" story was all about? :D:D
    They don't look that happily married to me. That's the bit I had trouble believing....
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eYmgAnIPn4


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    #77
    mikeyjames9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 700 ✭✭✭mikeyjames9


    did the party pass off successfully?

    or did the 5amp plug start to overheat and smoke causing the evacuation of the communion party

    and were the fire brigade called out?


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    #78
    Stoner
    Registered Users Posts: 10,952 ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    Old Story,

    We did design and builds on gyms, scene settings,once a big deal, remote controls etc. We had a client request for 5 Amp sockets on dimming channels, it was the old NicoBus system with dimmer packs good stuff back then. Put the packs in the halls for some heat exchange.

    Anyway the clients handyman was more cost effective than a tradesman, we got a call complaining about dodgy goings on, bad installation etc. We called down the handyman had replaced some 5 amp sockets with 13Amp sockets and the hoovers were smoking, funny sounds etc.

    It happens.


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    #79
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    Stoner wrote: »

    Anyway the clients handyman was more cost effective than a tradesman, we got a call complaining about dodgy goings on, bad installation etc. We called down the handyman had replaced some 5 amp sockets with 13Amp sockets and the hoovers were smoking, funny sounds etc.

    Now that is a definition of some one messing with electricity unlike a home owner wiring a 3 pin plug.


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    #80
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »
    Now that is a definition of some one messing with electricity unlike a home owner wiring a 3 pin plug.


    I'm more concerned about how the very resourceful John is (from the aforementioned John & Mary story).


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    #81
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    2011 wrote: »

    I'm more concerned about how the very resourceful John is (from the aforementioned John & Mary story).

    I welcome all possible outcomes, what do you think would happen?


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    #82
    Stoner
    Registered Users Posts: 10,952 ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    yes 2011, I'm also interested in your unambiguous response.:)


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    #83
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »
    I welcome all possible outcomes, what do you think would happen?

    Nothing too eventful probably.


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    #84
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    Bruthal wrote: »
    Nothing too eventful probably.

    It could be still working fine sure.


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    #85
    mikeyjames9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 700 ✭✭✭mikeyjames9


    Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »
    It could be still working fine sure.

    that's it so

    even under the most extreme numpty circumstances

    nothing happened


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    #86
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    mikeyjames9 wrote: »
    that's it so

    even under the most extreme numpty circumstances

    nothing happened

    The house could have also gone on fire with fatal consequences, i never promulgated an ambiguous riposte.


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    #87
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    ....and on that note I think we will leave it.

    If someone has something constructive to add please send myself or Stoner a PM and we will unlock.

    Regards,

    2011


This discussion has been closed.
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