Fiancé has an issue with my salary

mylefttesticle

irishguy1983 wrote: »

I think this is wrong but we are all only speculating.

The big issue is with himself - he is angry that he is not earning more money, he is angry at himself. Fortunately he is projecting this anger onto her. He probably is quite happy your so successful - this is all to do with him and not much to do with you. Can take a bit of therapy to understand this

He wishes he had gone for her job, imagine what he would be earning now? as in he is far superior to her and if he had taken the opportunity she has taken he would be much better at it than her. Do you think that is someone who does not have an issue with another person? What kind of partner puts down the achievement of someone they proclaim to love? by basically saying if I did it I could do it better, be more advanced and be better paid, They are basically saying they are much better than that person without actually having achieved anything to back up their notions.


As I said he see's his own failings through her actions and achievements and that is not the actions of a person who is supposed to love someone enough to marry them. It will become worse and it will become toxic unless its dealt with now.

This partner of course could be a nice guy who just lost his way a little and see's now how he should have done things differently but honestly its no way to treat someone who wants the best for you anyway, He should be proud and delighted his fiancé had the intelligence, guile, get up & go attitude and all the other things that he took for granted, If my partner earned 100,000 a year because she worked her hole of to achieve that I would be proud and delighted for her and that is what it really boils down too & no you don't need therapy for that its called good old fashioned good will.

LegacyUser

Thanks again for all the input.

I think the situation is a little more complicated than splitting everything 50/50 or 75/25. One other thing which causes conflict is his complete inability to hang on to his wages for the duration of the month. We are both paid monthly and as I noted earlier his contribution toward living expenses is transferred in to my account on the last day of every month as the bills come out at all different times and he is completely unable to make his salary last.

He earns 43k per year so it's not too bad a wage, he pays 600 a month toward rent (which isn't half) he then transfers €150 for living costs - this is meant to cover food, toilet paper, washing powder, his mobile phone, TV, Wifi, heating, power, rubbish.....which it doesn't. The reason he contributes so little is because he just cannot budget.

By the 14th of the month he will be down to his last €200 and he'll stretch this but by the 20th he is flat out broke - so, if we want to do anything like go for a nice lunch or meet friends - I end up forking out. I have gone out without him (to try and get him to fix this) but I still have to give him money for lunch and put petrol in his car.

So, I think part of his issue is that he see's himself as dependent on me financially and I know 43k isn't loads but he honestly has very few expenses, besides the €750 I have mentioned he pays €140 on a hire purchase car payment at the start of the month too so he still has a disposable income of €1800 or something. I'm not sure what he spends it on, online games or something.

I know he feels bad about depending on me financially and having to put his hand out so sometimes I wonder if him criticising me for earning more than him is something he does to make himself feel better about it. I do sometimes ask him to make a better effort to budget and that is a lot of the time what kicks off the arguments about how I earn so much and he should be earning more.

He is paid tomorrow so I'm going to initiate a chat about budgeting which will hopefully open the door for us to chat about his resentment towards what I earn

pookie82

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

Thanks again for all the input.

I think the situation is a little more complicated than splitting everything 50/50 or 75/25. One other thing which causes conflict is his complete inability to hang on to his wages for the duration of the month. We are both paid monthly and as I noted earlier his contribution toward living expenses is transferred in to my account on the last day of every month as the bills come out at all different times and he is completely unable to make his salary last.

He earns 43k per year so it's not too bad a wage, he pays 600 a month toward rent (which isn't half) he then transfers €150 for living costs - this is meant to cover food, toilet paper, washing powder, his mobile phone, TV, Wifi, heating, power, rubbish.....which it doesn't. The reason he contributes so little is because he just cannot budget.

By the 14th of the month he will be down to his last €200 and he'll stretch this but by the 20th he is flat out broke - so, if we want to do anything like go for a nice lunch or meet friends - I end up forking out. I have gone out without him (to try and get him to fix this) but I still have to give him money for lunch and put petrol in his car.

So, I think part of his issue is that he see's himself as dependent on me financially and I know 43k isn't loads but he honestly has very few expenses, besides the €750 I have mentioned he pays €140 on a hire purchase car payment at the start of the month too so he still has a disposable income of €1800 or something. I'm not sure what he spends it on, online games or something.

I know he feels bad about depending on me financially and having to put his hand out so sometimes I wonder if him criticising me for earning more than him is something he does to make himself feel better about it. I do sometimes ask him to make a better effort to budget and that is a lot of the time what kicks off the arguments about how I earn so much and he should be earning more.

He is paid tomorrow so I'm going to initiate a chat about budgeting which will hopefully open the door for us to chat about his resentment towards what I earn

There's no easy way to say this really... You're being had. If he felt bad about financially depending on you he wouldn't be ... it's that simple. He'd cut back on his "gaming" spending and actually contribute towards what's needed to run a household.

I think you're kidding yourself a little here... He's by no means on the breadline. Most adults survive on a lot less a month than he takes home and manage to pay all of their bills AND have a social life without relying on anyone else for a cent. You're giving someone who earns 43K a year lunch money?!

He's behaving like this because you're letting him, it's that simple. He's down to his last penny every month because he knows he has a financial cushion. Until you remove that, he won't change.

res ipsa

What does he bring to the table? Clearly not money or good attitude.
Why are you with him?

December2012

So if he makes 43k gross that's roughly €2,600 per month net.

600 for rent
150 for bills (ridiculous - has he ever seen a bill? Gone grocery shopping?)
140 car
Is 900 in total

Leaving him 1700 thereabouts.

And you've no idea where this goes?

When you say online gaming do you mean gambling?

My observations are
1. He has no idea what his bills actually cost
2. He has no idea what his bills SHOULD cost
3. He needs to allocate proper amount of money for food.
4. He should be saving at least €500 per month.
5. He should budget at least €100 per month for his car, petrol, tax, nct, servicing.
6. A proper and realistic view of where he is spending his money will show where he can save and where he can spend.
7. Can you afford the wedding you and he thought you were going to have? How?


What I would do
1. Show him all the monthly bills and decide who is responsible for what? You each should pay for your own clothing, fashion, grooming.
2. Decide how much of a good budget you need for household food.
3. Estimate how much you will need as a couple for household / shared bills.
When you have a figure, open a joint account from which all household bills get paid. Each go you agree to put in the same percentage of your salary as each other - not amount. Eg, each of you put in 50% of your net wages.

4. Open a savings account for your wedding / future. Each if you put in the same percentage, eg 10% (ideally more but this depends on how much you can trust him).

5. Keep the rest in your own accounts as your own money.


you must bring this up with him. The context of saving for the wedding is the appropriate "cover". You must also see what he's spending his money on if it's gambling.

Calmsurrender

"The reason he contributes so little is because he just cannot budget."

Set up a joint account for bills.
He sets up a dd for bills, rent, groceries for after payday . If the money is gone he cant blow it.
You can pay for extra luxuries then. Or set up a savings account (or up the amount of savings you are putting away) - say its for the wedding - and cut spending for a bit until he gets used to the idea of managing money.
He's blowing all his money coz he can.

strandroad

Sounds like an immature gambler with notions who is constantly putting you down to bring you down to his level... Why are you even with him? Apart from the fact that he needs someone to give him money for his lunch of course. He sounds like a joke!

How do you even expect to marry/start a family with someone like him? You'll pay for everything and he'll keep giving out to you?

Sadly yoy can't make anyone grow up or start to appreciate you, he needs to want it himself.

Addle

Have you seen his payslip?
I earn around the same amount gross as him (thought my pay was decent enough!) and my net pay is a lot less than you seem to think it should be.

strandroad

Addle wrote: »

Have you seen his payslip?
I earn around the same amount gross as him (thought my pay was decent enough!) and my net pay is a lot less than you seem to think it should be.

It should be €2626 according to 2014 budget calculator.

Twas Not

pookie82 wrote: »

There's no easy way to say this really... You're being had. If he felt bad about financially depending on you he wouldn't be ... it's that simple. He'd cut back on his "gaming" spending and actually contribute towards what's needed to run a household.

I think you're kidding yourself a little here... He's by no means on the breadline. Most adults survive on a lot less a month than he takes home and manage to pay all of their bills AND have a social life without relying on anyone else for a cent. You're giving someone who earns 43K a year lunch money?!

He's behaving like this because you're letting him, it's that simple. He's down to his last penny every month because he knows he has a financial cushion. Until you remove that, he won't change.

That's truly pathetic alright. Giving an adult earning 43k lunch money ! My god ! You're in for a rough ride OP with wedding costs and kids (down the line) if you stick with this guy....

LegacyUser

The problem is, if I don't sub him his mother will and I really don't want him to go to her with a story about how I am living it up and he can't ask me or I'll tell him where to go. I know his brothers depend on his mum almost entirely so it's just how they have been brought up with an expensive taste and no logic at all as to how to actually make money. His family is wealthier than mine, although, they aren't rich exactly. In my house had enough but I started working at 16 and if I had no money I stayed home. He just had a totally different relationship with his parents and there is no shortage of money there. We are a couple so we should be able to stand alone without her help and I can't stomach the thoughts of him explaining to her that he needed lunch money and I wouldn't give it to him.

As I have said before I really love him and as much as this is an issue for me at the moment I think after such a long time together it's not a reason to end our relationship. He is kind and affectionate. I can see why he behaves this way and he's a product of his upbringing I think. It's not his fault and I know he would like to have a better handle on finances but I know he wouldn't respond well to me dictating and monitoring where his money is spent. He's his own person. He's great fun and he totally understands me, i do feel like we complete each other and i can't imagine him not being in my life.

I think he plays casino games online and occasionally wins and will use that money to buy something expensive like a laptop recently or watches, bikes and phones etc. I've tried to encourage him to put this money toward living expenses but I don't want to nag at him when we have the whole earnings sensitivity thing going on anyway. Smaller wins just stay in his betting account and he uses them to keep it going. He does play quite a lot but I don't think that's why he doesn't make it to the end of the month as he just plays those things to pass the time, it's the same as me being on facebook, it's a social thing.

I think he goes through his money so quickly because he see's the big number on payday assumes it's a never ending amount and for the first week of the month will buy some sort of expensive gadget (which he'll be bored of a month later) and there's been a few stag parties where he's come home after spending a grand.... he just doesn't seem to think before he spends and I know he does regret it afterwards. I, and most people I know feel a bit guilty about splashing out on something I don't necessarily need but he doesn't have this setting. He can't even understand it.

All of this I could deal with, it's actually the resentment towards me for earning more than him that bothers me but everything else makes it very hard to confront this issue on it's own. If he could just get to a point where he actually felt grateful that I have a good wage and appreciated that I was supporting him and was rooting for me to do even better and earn more I think the problem would be solved. But right now, I think he'd be delighted if I lost my job and he'd still be fine for money as his mum would look after that. I know it sounds crazy but I don't even know where to start

LegacyUser

pookie82 wrote: »

You're giving someone who earns 43K a year lunch money?!

THIS. My jaw literally dropped when reading your update. Staggering.

He's turned you into his Mammy, giving him pocket money. And then of course he gets resentful of Mammy and wants to take her down a peg.

And now you have to be Mammy again and sit down and tell Baby how to budget? He's a grown man! He fecking knows how to budget! He doesn't WANT to!

He wants to spend what he likes, when he likes, without any nagging, and then expect his loaded girlfriend to help him out cos sure what would she be doing with all that money anyway, and sure shouldn't it be shared money anyway. Its not as if he couldn't do better if he wanted, and lets not forget it!

Meanwhile, you have failed to realise that your "soulmate" is a big baby.

By the way, if ever there was a person who needs to re-evaluate the definition of "soulmate" its you. No soulmate would be so casual in their cruel remarks. No soulmate would secretly wish their partner to lose their job.

You are evaluting the man by his good parts, when you should be evaluating him by his petty parts. All people have pettiness hidden inside, but the ones we decide to marry should be the ones who are never petty about US.

I suggest instead you get MAD. You've been passive about this for far too long. You have a right to be proud of every penny in your payslip. And you have a right to be sharing and planning your life with a financial grown-up. If he were financially responsible, then it COULD be a fair 75/25 split, with everything very clear and straightforward. Instead he's setting you so that you're always the bad guy, the fun-sucker, the nag, THE MAMMY.

kylith

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

Thanks again for all the input.

I think the situation is a little more complicated than splitting everything 50/50 or 75/25. One other thing which causes conflict is his complete inability to hang on to his wages for the duration of the month. We are both paid monthly and as I noted earlier his contribution toward living expenses is transferred in to my account on the last day of every month as the bills come out at all different times and he is completely unable to make his salary last.

He earns 43k per year so it's not too bad a wage, he pays 600 a month toward rent (which isn't half) he then transfers €150 for living costs - this is meant to cover food, toilet paper, washing powder, his mobile phone, TV, Wifi, heating, power, rubbish.....which it doesn't. The reason he contributes so little is because he just cannot budget.

By the 14th of the month he will be down to his last €200 and he'll stretch this but by the 20th he is flat out broke - so, if we want to do anything like go for a nice lunch or meet friends - I end up forking out. I have gone out without him (to try and get him to fix this) but I still have to give him money for lunch and put petrol in his car.

So, I think part of his issue is that he see's himself as dependent on me financially and I know 43k isn't loads but he honestly has very few expenses, besides the €750 I have mentioned he pays €140 on a hire purchase car payment at the start of the month too so he still has a disposable income of €1800 or something. I'm not sure what he spends it on, online games or something.

I know he feels bad about depending on me financially and having to put his hand out so sometimes I wonder if him criticising me for earning more than him is something he does to make himself feel better about it. I do sometimes ask him to make a better effort to budget and that is a lot of the time what kicks off the arguments about how I earn so much and he should be earning more.

He is paid tomorrow so I'm going to initiate a chat about budgeting which will hopefully open the door for us to chat about his resentment towards what I earn

Your fiancé is taking the complete and total piss. A grown man, earning a good wage, who's not paying his own way in rent and bills who has to have you giving him money on a regular basis?! He must be bringing home about €2500 a month and he gives you €750 of it, so where is the other €1750 going? If you're happy to subsidise his rent and bills that's between you and him but if I were you I'd be insisting on 50% of rent and bills, and after that if he runs out of money it's his own look out. If he can't afford lunch it's his own fault. A couple of hungry days might teach him to look after his money better.

Twas Not

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

The problem is, if I don't sub him his mother will and I really don't want him to go to her with a story about how I am living it up and he can't ask me or I'll tell him where to go. I know his brothers depend on his mum almost entirely so it's just how they have been brought up with an expensive taste and no logic at all as to how to actually make money. His family is wealthier than mine, although, they aren't rich exactly. In my house had enough but I started working at 16 and if I had no money I stayed home. He just had a totally different relationship with his parents and there is no shortage of money there. We are a couple so we should be able to stand alone without her help and I can't stomach the thoughts of him explaining to her that he needed lunch money and I wouldn't give it to him.

As I have said before I really love him and as much as this is an issue for me at the moment I think after such a long time together it's not a reason to end our relationship. He is kind and affectionate. I can see why he behaves this way and he's a product of his upbringing I think. It's not his fault and I know he would like to have a better handle on finances but I know he wouldn't respond well to me dictating and monitoring where his money is spent. He's his own person. He's great fun and he totally understands me, i do feel like we complete each other and i can't imagine him not being in my life.

I think he plays casino games online and occasionally wins and will use that money to buy something expensive like a laptop recently or watches, bikes and phones etc. I've tried to encourage him to put this money toward living expenses but I don't want to nag at him when we have the whole earnings sensitivity thing going on anyway. Smaller wins just stay in his betting account and he uses them to keep it going. He does play quite a lot but I don't think that's why he doesn't make it to the end of the month as he just plays those things to pass the time, it's the same as me being on facebook, it's a social thing.

I think he goes through his money so quickly because he see's the big number on payday assumes it's a never ending amount and for the first week of the month will buy some sort of expensive gadget (which he'll be bored of a month later) and there's been a few stag parties where he's come home after spending a grand.... he just doesn't seem to think before he spends and I know he does regret it afterwards. I, and most people I know feel a bit guilty about splashing out on something I don't necessarily need but he doesn't have this setting. He can't even understand it.

All of this I could deal with, it's actually the resentment towards me for earning more than him that bothers me but everything else makes it very hard to confront this issue on it's own. If he could just get to a point where he actually felt grateful that I have a good wage and appreciated that I was supporting him and was rooting for me to do even better and earn more I think the problem would be solved. But right now, I think he'd be delighted if I lost my job and he'd still be fine for money as his mum would look after that. I know it sounds crazy but I don't even know where to start

CASINO GAMES ONLINE !!!!???!!!


That's where the money is going OP ! You are funding a gambler!

Calmsurrender

Sorry but sounds like a gambling problem.

Twas Not

Calmsurrender wrote: »

Sorry but sounds like a gambling problem.

Completely. There should be a spare grand a month knocking around based on the numbers the OP gave - AND HE CAN'T EVEN AFFORD LUNCH!!

Obviously his snide comments about her salary are to cover up his gambling losses.

LegacyUser

No, being totally upfront I 100% do not believe he has a gambling problem. By all accounts he seems to win on them all the time and he really does just do it for fun. When we are watching the TV he sometimes has the laptop open while he's playing and he only bets in denominations of €2 or €3 so it's not big bucks but if he runs out of money he transfers €10 and that seems to keep him going for a week. He just likes playing the games and chatting to other people playing. He never bets on sports or anything.

I am so sure he doesn't have a problem with this as i was concerned at the start when I didn't know anything about it and i thought it sounded suspect but he showed me the games and how to play them and it's just like the actual games he enjoys and you have to have a small amount of money in your account or you can't take part. So, some of his money does go towards it but he's won 400 and 500 sometimes so it's not costing him money as he doesn't spend much on it

Barely There

From your own calculations, if he's down to €200 by the 14th of the month, he burning through about €800 a week on online gambling.

This is not normal!

He has a serious gambling addiction - and you're enabling it and funding it - how can you not see that?

You must have very low self-esteem to put up with his self-centred and pathetic behaviour.

Penny Tration

Op, I really don't know how you can liken his gambling to you using Facebook.

It's not a social thing at all.

He's gambling so much that he can't afford lunch on 43k a year.

He has a serious gambling problem. My dad was the exact same when he was a gambling addict.

The fact that he leaves any small amounts that he wins on his account to gamble away should be a massive red flag to you.

strandroad

Anywayssss wrote: »

He's turned you into his Mammy, giving him pocket money. And then of course he gets resentful of Mammy and wants to take her down a peg.

And now you have to be Mammy again and sit down and tell Baby how to budget? He's a grown man! He fecking knows how to budget! He doesn't WANT to!

That's it in a nutshell.

Also OP, boys who turn their girlfriends into mammys like to ditch them after a while to go after a new girl they "really love", while the mammy will be remembered as that stingy nag who was holding him back.
His lack of commitment to take your relationship further after 8 years (no, words don't count, actions count - does he have anything saved?) would raise major red flags with me in this aspect. He has it good with you and he knows it, but he has no respect for you.

Let him go back to his mammy and ask her for his lunch money, on €43k. Ridiculous...

Twas Not

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

The problem is, if I don't sub him his mother will and I really don't want him to go to her with a story about how I am living it up and he can't ask me or I'll tell him where to go. I know his brothers depend on his mum almost entirely so it's just how they have been brought up with an expensive taste and no logic at all as to how to actually make money. His family is wealthier than mine, although, they aren't rich exactly. In my house had enough but I started working at 16 and if I had no money I stayed home. He just had a totally different relationship with his parents and there is no shortage of money there. We are a couple so we should be able to stand alone without her help and I can't stomach the thoughts of him explaining to her that he needed lunch money and I wouldn't give it to him.

As I have said before I really love him and as much as this is an issue for me at the moment I think after such a long time together it's not a reason to end our relationship. He is kind and affectionate. I can see why he behaves this way and he's a product of his upbringing I think. It's not his fault and I know he would like to have a better handle on finances but I know he wouldn't respond well to me dictating and monitoring where his money is spent. He's his own person. He's great fun and he totally understands me, i do feel like we complete each other and i can't imagine him not being in my life.

I think he plays casino games online and occasionally wins and will use that money to buy something expensive like a laptop recently or watches, bikes and phones etc. I've tried to encourage him to put this money toward living expenses but I don't want to nag at him when we have the whole earnings sensitivity thing going on anyway. Smaller wins just stay in his betting account and he uses them to keep it going. He does play quite a lot but I don't think that's why he doesn't make it to the end of the month as he just plays those things to pass the time, it's the same as me being on facebook, it's a social thing.

I think he goes through his money so quickly because he see's the big number on payday assumes it's a never ending amount and for the first week of the month will buy some sort of expensive gadget (which he'll be bored of a month later) and there's been a few stag parties where he's come home after spending a grand.... he just doesn't seem to think before he spends and I know he does regret it afterwards. I, and most people I know feel a bit guilty about splashing out on something I don't necessarily need but he doesn't have this setting. He can't even understand it.

All of this I could deal with, it's actually the resentment towards me for earning more than him that bothers me but everything else makes it very hard to confront this issue on it's own. If he could just get to a point where he actually felt grateful that I have a good wage and appreciated that I was supporting him and was rooting for me to do even better and earn more I think the problem would be solved. But right now, I think he'd be delighted if I lost my job and he'd still be fine for money as his mum would look after that. I know it sounds crazy but I don't even know where to start

I wonder where that idea that being on Facebook = Online Gambling ie "just a social thing to pass the time" came from?!


Believe me gamblers are the most manipulative people in the world. The best at deceiving everyone including themselves.

Calmsurrender

If you lost your job tomorrow, aside from being delighted you'd be put in your place, he'd not have a cent to give you. Even if he isn't seriously addicted to gambling and just pissing money away for the heck of it are you really gonna sit down and have a conversation about how to live on just "his" wages? How will you do that without being a "nag"?
If you can't talk about money and the future and even your day to day living how are you going to survive ?

pookie82

OP you probably don't even realise it, but each time you explain the reality of his actions, this is coming across as way worse than even the original problem.

In a nutshell, not only does he have a problem with money, he appears to have been raised with a gross sense of entitlement.

Believe me when I say this, as someone who has been in this kind of relationship, you will never, ever change that attitude once it's been entrenched.

You need to think LONG and hard about marrying this lad. I don't care how affectionate he is, I don't care if he gets you roses on a daily basis and runs you baths and brings you breakfast in bed... this type of financial recklessness IS a reason to end a relationship unless you want to be taken for a mug for the rest of your life.

What if you ever lost your job/had kids and chose not to work down the line... what are you going to do then? Who's going to support you?

pookie82

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

The problem is, if I don't sub him his mother will and I really don't want him to go to her with a story about how I am living it up and he can't ask me or I'll tell him where to go. I know his brothers depend on his mum almost entirely so it's just how they have been brought up with an expensive taste and no logic at all as to how to actually make money. His family is wealthier than mine, although, they aren't rich exactly. In my house had enough but I started working at 16 and if I had no money I stayed home. He just had a totally different relationship with his parents and there is no shortage of money there. We are a couple so we should be able to stand alone without her help and I can't stomach the thoughts of him explaining to her that he needed lunch money and I wouldn't give it to him.

As I have said before I really love him and as much as this is an issue for me at the moment I think after such a long time together it's not a reason to end our relationship. He is kind and affectionate. I can see why he behaves this way and he's a product of his upbringing I think. It's not his fault and I know he would like to have a better handle on finances but I know he wouldn't respond well to me dictating and monitoring where his money is spent. He's his own person. He's great fun and he totally understands me, i do feel like we complete each other and i can't imagine him not being in my life.

I think he plays casino games online and occasionally wins and will use that money to buy something expensive like a laptop recently or watches, bikes and phones etc. I've tried to encourage him to put this money toward living expenses but I don't want to nag at him when we have the whole earnings sensitivity thing going on anyway. Smaller wins just stay in his betting account and he uses them to keep it going. He does play quite a lot but I don't think that's why he doesn't make it to the end of the month as he just plays those things to pass the time, it's the same as me being on facebook, it's a social thing.

I think he goes through his money so quickly because he see's the big number on payday assumes it's a never ending amount and for the first week of the month will buy some sort of expensive gadget (which he'll be bored of a month later) and there's been a few stag parties where he's come home after spending a grand.... he just doesn't seem to think before he spends and I know he does regret it afterwards. I, and most people I know feel a bit guilty about splashing out on something I don't necessarily need but he doesn't have this setting. He can't even understand it.

All of this I could deal with, it's actually the resentment towards me for earning more than him that bothers me but everything else makes it very hard to confront this issue on it's own. If he could just get to a point where he actually felt grateful that I have a good wage and appreciated that I was supporting him and was rooting for me to do even better and earn more I think the problem would be solved. But right now, I think he'd be delighted if I lost my job and he'd still be fine for money as his mum would look after that. I know it sounds crazy but I don't even know where to start

No, OP, he most definitely is not his own person, and it sounds like he has you blindsided. Someone who is their "own person" does not rely on their fiance/mother for lunch money.

I have to take my hat off to him on the manipulation front too... not only has he taken you for a mug financially, he has you apologising for him to boot. "It's not his fault"? Listen to yourself.

And I'm not saying that in a nasty way but really... listen to yourself.

Twas Not

pookie82 wrote: »

No, OP, he most definitely is not his own person, and it sounds like he has you blindsided. Someone who is their "own person" does not rely on their fiance/mother for lunch money.

I have to take my hat off to him on the manipulation front too... not only has he taken you for a mug financially, he has you apologising for him to boot. "It's not his fault"? Listen to yourself.

And I'm not saying that in a nasty way but really... listen to yourself.

It's a gambler's manipulation in action. Have seen it before.

tinkerbell

God OP, you are being played for a complete fool. A complete and utter fool. I can't believe you're saying it's not his fault and it's a product of his upbringing, no it's not! And the you say you don't want to nag. This is not nagging! Bloody hell, no wonder he only gives you pittance because he knows you wouldn't dare ask for any more. If he wants to go to his mother, let him off! Let someone else pay for him. And if he whines to his mother about you, well then you set her straight and let her see how feckin useless her son is. Oh and it sounds like he does have a gambling problem. He's likened his "social gambling" to you being on facebook. Eh facebook is FREE and it's social networking, not social gambling!

You're supposed to be in a partnership. If you can't talk about something so basic as making sure that you both have enough money set aside each month to meet household expenses, then you have no relationship. Walk away.

If you set up a joint account, then set one up totally separate with no bank cards as otherwise you'll have him withdrawing money from that. And for feck sake, stop giving him money.

LegacyUser

I have already replied to this but as i'm not registered for this thread it hasn't appeared.

I really don't think he has a gambling problem, he would definitely come to me for help with that, we're very honest with each other.

I understand where everyone is coming from and you are all viewing this objectively however we have been together a very long time and we are solid, everything else is great. I still feel so so happy when I am in his company and after all these years I know that that is not a bad thing. He makes me feel good about myself in every other way besides my earnings.

I probably suffer from low-self esteem, I try extra hard to get people to like me and approve of me. I know this, it's probably why I've done so well in work. He's so charismatic and handsome and he could have anyone he wanted, he's completely devoted to me and would do anything for me. He does want to be better with money it' just a really sensitive issue and I have brought it up but when his mums not standing too far away with a cheque-book I really just never ever want her to see us not getting on as she already has expressed concerns about me in the past, my dad was a factory worker which she felt at the start was beneath her son, she doesn't need another reason to dislike me. If she thinks he's struggling financially with me I'll be doomed for good.

So, for me (if I am allowed be selfish), I would rather help him financially and pay a bit extra for things but I need it to seem fair. Like the sofa example or the wedding gifts to friends. It never feels like we are even partners in this, even allowing for the salary difference, the majority of his money is his and my money is ours, but more than this and I hate that he resents my salary. I want both of us to just be happy and content but right now this issue is becoming bigger than both of us

Barely There

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

No, being totally upfront I 100% do not believe he has a gambling problem. By all accounts he seems to win on them all the time and he really does just do it for fun. When we are watching the TV he sometimes has the laptop open while he's playing and he only bets in denominations of €2 or €3 so it's not big bucks but if he runs out of money he transfers €10 and that seems to keep him going for a week. He just likes playing the games and chatting to other people playing. He never bets on sports or anything.

I am so sure he doesn't have a problem with this as i was concerned at the start when I didn't know anything about it and i thought it sounded suspect but he showed me the games and how to play them and it's just like the actual games he enjoys and you have to have a small amount of money in your account or you can't take part. So, some of his money does go towards it but he's won 400 and 500 sometimes so it's not costing him money as he doesn't spend much on it

OK, so where is the €800 a week disappearing? Cocaine? Hookers?

Seriously, your fiance is going through €800 disposable income a week for 2 weeks and then borrowing money off you to get him through the rest of the month.
Are alarm bells not blaring?

LegacyUser

Squandering away close to a grand a month on gambling and you think thats fine!!! there are people out there with families on way less than he is and are able to manage. The fact he is broke by the 2nd week of the month shows he's up to his neck in it. How do you know the "lunch" money you are giving him is going towards lunch and not towards his next gamble??

Big Bag of Chips

My friend is married to a gambler. She knew he was in the bookies every day. She knew if she was in town and needed him he was in the bookies. She knew he had an account with them. She knew he could ring from home and put on a bet if he wanted.

She then found an overdue bill, (He always collected the post, sorted out bank statements etc) and asked him about it... It was a mistake, he'd sort it out etc.

Eventually she found out the extent of their money problems. A gambling problem never even crossed her mind... She accused him of going to prostitutes!!! To her the gambling was so "normal" and only a fiver here and there, he sometimes had wins etc it seemed more likely to her that it was prostitutes. He lied, manipulated her, had her doubting herself even when she has undeniable proof he still twisted things around to have her doubting herself and apologising to him.

Does any of that sound familiar?

Maybe he's not heavy gambling, but maybe he is. Either way, money and finances is one thing that a couple need to be able to discuss without anyone getting defensive.

My friend is still married to her husband, but it has been a long long road. And even when he promised he was being completely honest with her, little by little more and more things kept coming out.

A liar will only admit to what is absolutely undeniable. They will very rarely volunteer information that they know will more than likely cause them hassle.

December2012

He's using your pride against you to manipulate you into giving him money.

I'm not saying break up with him, let him allocate a float for his gambling and spend just that.

Don't give him any money.

Don't go for a loan or mortgage or joint credit card with him until he sorts his financial management out.

And if he runs complaining to his Mammy - let him! You can stop enabling him because if this isn't already a problem it is well on it's way.

alibab

I don't often post in this section and I know no matter what anyone says on here that you will not take there advice . Why not because you are in a manipulating and controlling relationship. Everything you have written here is classic behaviour . You keep thinking of his good points so these outweigh the bad .

I am not going to get into the gambling only to say that I hope you are aware that if you don't have a mortgage etc already with a online betting account you will never get one .its a huge no no now and a automatic refusal by the banks . He has a problem small and all as you see it this problem will get worse .

Move forward a few years all this is manageable now . You get married you have kids and a mortgage something happens and you can't work you might think will never happen but it does . This is when the **** will hit the fan and the realisation will dawn on you that this man is squandering money and there is nothing there for you and your kids . The independent women that you were will have been eroded by years of subtle abuse and you will be a shell .

You might think no way but take it from someone who has been there and who had minor concerns and used to joke about how useless the person was with money etc and skipped down the aisle. The cracks soon started to show once I had kids one with bad special needs so had to take time off work . There was no support and no money . Massive money I'm wages coming in but apparently we had nothing and I never knew where it was going .

The best thing ever was the breakdown of the marriage. It took me years to rebuild but I know have a great job and I have recently bought my own house etc and I am back to being where I was before it started but it took 5 long years to get myself back on track.

This is a warning that you need to sort this out now or walk away . I would have serious alarm bells from all you have said but I think you are realising things are not quite right but take these feeling and build on them as they are you instincts.

kylith

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

I really don't think he has a gambling problem, he would definitely come to me for help with that, we're very honest with each other.

He will only come to you for help if he thinks he has a problem, and he will never think he has a problem, especially when you and mammy keep bailing him out. By the time he admits to you that he has a gambling problem things will have gotten bad. There are threads on here from people dealing with a partner's gambling and it's not unusual for there to be tens of thousands of euro worth of hidden debt. Seriously, he is losing almost €2000 a month (more than I earn in the same period of time, just to put it into perspective), to the point where he can't afford food and you don't think he has a problem?!?!?!

Tell him that you are saving your money for the wedding (because it sounds like if it happens at all you'll be the one footing the bill) and that you won't be giving him any more cash. Tell him that if he can afford to throw thousands of euro down the toilet that is gambling then he can afford food.

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

I probably suffer from low-self esteem, I try extra hard to get people to like me and approve of me. I know this, it's probably why I've done so well in work. He's so charismatic and handsome and he could have anyone he wanted,

There we have it, you think you're lucky that he's with you, so you don't want to do anything to upset him in case he leaves. He is using your desire to please and to be liked for his own ends, whether he means to or not.

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

So, for me (if I am allowed be selfish), I would rather help him financially and pay a bit extra for things but I need it to seem fair. Like the sofa example or the wedding gifts to friends. It never feels like we are even partners in this, even allowing for the salary difference, the majority of his money is his and my money is ours, but more than this and I hate that he resents my salary. I want both of us to just be happy and content but right now this issue is becoming bigger than both of us

This will never happen while he's spending all his money on gambling. He could be earning five times what he is now and his money would still be his rather than 'ours'. No amount of money will ever be enough while he is gambling to that extent.

I’m usually not one for getting mammys involved but in this case I would. Contact her and tell her that you’re sick of subsidising his gambling and are fed up of a man who earns good money asking you to pay for his lunch because he’s spending more than €1000 a month on Paddy Power. Ask her to join you in cutting him off because as long as you and she keep topping him up there is zero impetus for him to change. I know you said that she doesn't think you're good enough (f*ck what she thinks), but you're the breadwinner here, and it's her that's raised a self-entitled man-child who can't look after himself.

LegacyUser

OP, you're basically saying now "I don't care that he flushes €800 down the toilet a month as long as he shuts up about my job"

With a hefty side dose of "He's so much better than me in terms of looks/personality/family background, I'm nothing special, he could have someone else in a heartbeat"

OH REALLY??? Cos I wouldn't put up with this manchild for a week.

But you're determined to put him on a pedestal it appears. So best of luck. You're gonna need it.

pookie82

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

he's completely devoted to me and would do anything for me.

Then he will listen to your concerns.

Then he will stop frivolously gambling money that should be spent on food and fuel.

Then he will respect you as an equal, be grateful for all the help you have given him to date, and make a concerted effort to start acting like a partner and not a burden.

Then rather than go crying to his mother for extra pocket money, he will respect you drawing a line under the financial help you have given him, and will make changes in his own spending habits to compensate.

If what you've typed above is really true, you wouldn't even have needed to start this thread.

strandroad

I wouldn't involve his mother but you need to put your foot down and test him out. Declare that you are not bailing him out anymore, you are saving for the wedding and he should be doing it as well. His commitment to saving will show his true colours with regards to the plans he really has with you. Expect nothing and you won't be disappointed.

A €43k salary is a ridiculous amount for a guy with no commitments to spend every month on god knows what and come crawling to you for even more. With what you're supplementing in bills, treats and spending money he's burning through €50k at least. There are whole families living fairly comfortable lives on one salary like that. He's a liability, but more importantly he feels entitled to it and he has you to cater to that ridiculous entitlement.

LegacyUser

A few hours ago I was adamant that he didn't have a problem with the internet games and I honestly thought he was spending max €50 a month...I still very much want to believe this.

However recently he applied for a €500 over draft from his bank and was refused. I thought this was really odd as I was under the impression they will give you at least half of your monthly salary. He said it was because he was in his job less than 5 years, which also sounded strange but I didn't doubt him, just thought the bank were useless or it might have been something to do with his erratic spending which would have been obvious.

We have been talking about buying a place, eventually. I really think he only spends a small amount on that betting site but maybe tonight, pay day, I'll suggest opening up a savings account that we both contribute too and also ad that that stuff looks really bad on his bank statement so to stop using it while we're saving to give ourselves the best chance. I'm sure there are free games online that are similar, as far as I am to believe it's the actual games he enjoys and the money bit is just for access, winning is a bonus.

I really want to believe he's not a gambler. He's always been terrible with money, always!

Big Bag of Chips

One other thing about my friend's husband.. I don't think it will make a difference if you stop giving him money, and if you tell his mother to stop.. He will get it somewhere else. My friend's husband had borrowed from numerous friends. He had borrowed from me under the guise of wanting to buy her an extra special anniversary present etc.

Stopping handing over money to him isn't going to fix him or teach him to manage his money. He will just move on to his next source.

kylith

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

One other thing about my friend's husband.. I don't think it will make a difference if you stop giving him money, and if you tell his mother to stop.. He will get it somewhere else. My friend's husband had borrowed from numerous friends. He had borrowed from me under the guise of wanting to buy her an extra special anniversary present etc.

Stopping handing over money to him isn't going to fix him or teach him to manage his money. He will just move on to his next source.

It's all she can do though. He might borrow from other people, he might take out loans or credit cards, there's nothing she can do in that case but not agree to be guarantor for any loans and thus avoid being held liable for any debt he may get into.

cintec

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

I really don't think he has a gambling problem, he would definitely come to me for help with that, we're very honest with each other.

he could just have a hobby and gamble a bit when he is bored I play poker online when bored but haven't spent more then €50 in the last 4 months.

If he is winning enough to buy laptops then he has to be gambling larger amounts.

You should bring up the subject of how much he gambles if he says he hasn't a problem ask to see his account transaction history as it will record all deposits and withdrawals.

tara73

to add to alibabs' post, at this stage after reading your posts and all the brilliant advice you got, I say you'll stick to this guy no matter what.

you'll probably marry him, might have kids and sooner or later things will happen in a way alibab described it.

you are delusional in not accepting there's some severely wrong in your relationship, and how your partner treats you.
And unfortunately you're not alone with this, so many people live in abusive, manipulating relationships. for what I ask myself. for fear of being alone? It's mindboggling, I could never do that.

OP, I'm not writing this to put you down, I'm writing this still with a slight hope it might open your eyes and you'll tackle the real issues, stand up for yourself, take the great advice here on board, whatever consequences it involves.

all the best

ILikeBananas

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

He's so charismatic and handsome and he could have anyone he wanted,

No he couldn't. He's a bum. Most women will sense this a mile off. As you said yourself, you have low self esteem and he's preying on it. Guys like this have a talent for finding the kind of women who'll put up with their nonsense.

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

when his mums not standing too far away with a cheque-book I really just never ever want her to see us not getting on as she already has expressed concerns about me in the past, my dad was a factory worker which she felt at the start was beneath her son, she doesn't need another reason to dislike me. If she thinks he's struggling financially with me I'll be doomed for good.

She sounds like a horrible snob and if that's the case then nothing you do will change her opinion of you.

The galling bit in all of this story is that he clearly is beneath you and despite all of the evidence, that you yourself have supplied to support this fact, you don't believe it.

You've got character. You've shown hard work, loyalty and perseverance. All he's shown is an unearned sense of entitlement. Get rid.

(Oh and I earn €36k and manage to pay rent, run a car, socialise go on foreign holidays and save €500 per month. Again, he's a bum)

Big Bag of Chips

kylith wrote: »

It's all she can do though. He might borrow from other people, he might take out loans or credit cards, there's nothing she can do in that case but not agree to be guarantor for any loans and thus avoid being held liable for any debt he may get into.

It would be better to try get to the root of it though rather than just move the problem to owing others money.

If you are going to marry this man then whether you like it or not your finances are going to be intertwined. With every post, and with every explanation/excuse he gives you he sounds more and more like my friend's husband. Almost word for word.

Would you consider going to GamAnon? Just to see if anything sounds familiar to you?

This isn't unsalvageable, by the way. You can actually live quite happily... Once everything is out in the open. My friend recently told me her husband admitted a weight lifted when things started unravelling for him. He had tied himself up in so many knots, lying to everyone, family, friends, neighbours etc.. All to balance this mess he had gotten in to.

And the one big thing he always did if she questioned him... Turn it back around to attack her for not trusting him, questioning him, doubting him etc. Looking back now she is only realising what was happening. That he was deflecting attention away from himself so as not to get found out.

DaisyD2

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

1) However recently he applied for a €500 over draft from his bank and was refused.

2) We have been talking about buying a place, eventually

3) maybe tonight, pay day, I'll suggest opening up a savings account that we both contribute too

4) it's the actual games he enjoys and the money bit is just for access, winning is a bonus.

5) I really want to believe he's not a gambler. He's always been terrible with money, always!

1) He will NEVER get a mortgage with any record of gambling on any bank accounts.

2) Hes ALL talk

3) no MAYBE. Sit him down and tell him you are together 8yrs, its time to open a joint living/savings account so you can both show bank for that mortgage he'll never get & wedding - I'm sorry dear but - he does not want or you would be saving toward it already

4) BULL. Every one of those online games is available without spending a penny. I loved the texas hold-em poker myself (until weirdos started sending me fb requests to a private account designed not to be seen by anyone I don't know in real life!) but never once did it cost me a cent

5) nobody wants to believe their loved one has any sort of addiction. A cousin of mine loved 2p slots, what harm could possibly come of 2p slots thought his family until bailiffs turned up one day (I kid you not, it was in UK) & threw himself, partner & child out & took house, furniture & car keys for debts he had run up without anyone knowing.

&

I'm sorry but you will NEVER be good enough for Mammy! She knows she still has him by short n curlys by dangling that cheque book & I would, forgive me, hazard a bet if you spoke to the woman he has been running to her this entire time for loans cos you "won't sub him til payday"!

Why else did he suddenly need an overdraft?!

alibab

Being realistic if he was turned down for a overdraft of 500 euros there is no way a mortgage is ever going to be approved . Online betting accounts in any guise even if spending 20 euro a week are a complete no no . He would need to close it now and keep squeaky clean accounts for the next year .

I earn roughly what your partner does and I run a car , have 2 kids and pay a mortgage and bills etc and still save a bit every month I have a good social life and although I watch the pennies no major money worries now . I suppose after having nothing for a long while I became excellent at budgeting .

There is something seriously wrong here and the sooner the penny drops the better . I don't mean to be harsh but he will drag you down and is doing so already .

I am with a new partner now he earns less than me by a good bit but he treats me 100 times better than my ex and when we are out he will insist on treating me etc and we take turns . It swings in roundabouts like I saw a pair of work boots on special he needed yesterday so bought them for him so all in all works out in issues .

December2012

DaisyD2 wrote: »

I'm sorry but you will NEVER be good enough for Mammy! She knows she still has him by short n curlys by dangling that cheque book & I would, forgive me, hazard a bet if you spoke to the woman he has been running to her this entire time for loans cos you "won't sub him til payday"!

Why else did he suddenly need an overdraft?!

Given the way that addicts can be ashamed and manipulative it would not surprise me if part of the reason Mammy doesn't like you is because of the light he has painted you in.

After all it's much easier for him to blame you for everything rather than take responsibility for anything.

strandroad

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

However recently he applied for a €500 over draft from his bank and was refused. I thought this was really odd as I was under the impression they will give you at least half of your monthly salary. He said it was because he was in his job less than 5 years, which also sounded strange but I didn't doubt him, just thought the bank were useless or it might have been something to do with his erratic spending which would have been obvious.

That's a lie... Even for something big like a mortgage they only look a year back, and it's 6 months PAYE employment for overdrafts! Banks may have policies differing by a few months but not up to 5 years for a relatively small overdraft, don't believe it.
They saw something smelly - either his gambling coming off his account or the simple fact that on a decent salary all his money is spent in the first half on the month, which would be a red flag in itself.

LegacyUser

OP you don't seem to be great with finances either, how did you swallow that about the €500 overdraft. Come on jeez when I was a student on a grant and working part-time I was able to get a bloody overdraft. I know banks have tightened up things but somebody who is on that salary and is refused a €500, there is something seriously up there!!

Please don't not open a savings account with him unless you have total control over it!

Calmsurrender

Look for a savings account that can't be easily accessed too.

tinkerbell

kylith wrote: »

It's all she can do though. He might borrow from other people, he might take out loans or credit cards, there's nothing she can do in that case but not agree to be guarantor for any loans and thus avoid being held liable for any debt he may get into.

He loans become her problem if she marries him.

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

A few hours ago I was adamant that he didn't have a problem with the internet games and I honestly thought he was spending max €50 a month...I still very much want to believe this.

However recently he applied for a €500 over draft from his bank and was refused. I thought this was really odd as I was under the impression they will give you at least half of your monthly salary. He said it was because he was in his job less than 5 years, which also sounded strange but I didn't doubt him, just thought the bank were useless or it might have been something to do with his erratic spending which would have been obvious.

We have been talking about buying a place, eventually. I really think he only spends a small amount on that betting site but maybe tonight, pay day, I'll suggest opening up a savings account that we both contribute too and also ad that that stuff looks really bad on his bank statement so to stop using it while we're saving to give ourselves the best chance. I'm sure there are free games online that are similar, as far as I am to believe it's the actual games he enjoys and the money bit is just for access, winning is a bonus.

I really want to believe he's not a gambler. He's always been terrible with money, always!

STOP making excuses for him. Are you really that clueless that you think a bank would turn him down for a measly €500 overdraft because he's only been in a job less than five years? Banks give student overdrafts for almost the same amount!! I was given one in college (automatically), I didn't ask for it and I wasn't even in part-time work. They have denied your boyfriend a €500 overdraft coz there's something dodgy as hell going on in his accounts.

And you would be even more stupid if you married this guy. If you're married, his debts become yours. Judging by his lack of ability to pay for anything, you'll end up bailing him out.

I really believe you're in an abusive relationship - you are justifying his behaviour because he supposedly is so nice to you in every other aspect. Err how? He drains your account every month, he is an asshole to you, he is jealous of your accomplishments and he looks down his nose at you. Yet you think it's ok because he's not bad in the looks department and reckon he could have any woman he wanted. As someone else said, nobody else would want him because he is a good for nothing leech!

You've done great in your career, you should have the same high hopes and expectations for your personal life. Why settle for this scumbag when it's YOU who can do so much better.