Fiancé has an issue with my salary

Twas Not

kylith wrote: »

And yet somehow his outgoings every month are in the region of €1700. If lunches and petrol wouldn't amount to €500 then where does the money go?

Online gambling.

Czarcasm

OP I honestly get the impression from your posts that you will defend your boyfriend to the hilt despite knowing he's lying to you, despite the fact that you are subsidizing his spendthrift ways (frankly I don't care what he's spending his money on, burning through €20k+ in a year with nothing to show for it is crazy, even if he were earning ten times that), the fact that he would be delighted if you lost your job, that he considers himself more capable of your job than you are...

I mean, from your above post, you're now lying to yourself and lying to him, to keep him happy! Where is the trust in your relationship? I hate to be cynical OP but it sounds to me like your boyfriend knows well which side his bread is buttered so to speak, and he doesn't see you as a person, he looks at you and sees dollar signs. He's milking you for all you're worth, and you think this is love? All I see is money, and talk of money (I'm still recovering after reading your €42k isn't a lot comment!), but the degree to which you are willing to play down your boyfriends behavior and his attitude tells me that while you may be smart when it comes to your career, you're just as deluded as your boyfriend when it comes to money and what relationships are supposed to be about.

I don't think anyone here is going to convince you of anything, despite the overwhelming amount of fantastic advice you've been given, so I would recommend you make an appointment with the people that do this stuff for a living - a financial consultant first of all to have a look at both you and your boyfriends' income and expenditure, and plans for the future (have you any life insurance, medical insurance, pension plan in place?), and a relationship counselor (because any more lies and mistrust and the multitude of issues going on here).

Honestly to me it sounds like you're both just with each other because each other is all you've known since college, you got with him because he was popular in college, and he stayed with you because, well, he saw a mug really, one who he knew would always work hard and put her heart and soul into everything she does, even at great personal and financial cost to herself. The only thing you have left to lose now is the professional cost, and if you lose that, then your boyfriend's dominance over you will be complete, and you'll have let it happen because you weren't willing to tackle all the little things and indicators and red flags, for the sake of keeping the relationship together in the immediate term, the very same as your boyfriend is only thinking in the immediate term, without any sort of planning for the future when the day comes that you realize the actual value of €42k and a boyfriend who genuinely cares about you as a person.

alibab

Of course we don't expect you to up and pack your bags based on a thread on the Internet by a bunch of strangers but there is no smoke without fire and I do think that the positive that has come out of this is that in your head you now know something is not right and you are questioning things .

He should be surviving on his wage as others have pointed out people have mortgages and are supporting full families on it .

This will be a slow process for you but I recommend in the next month or two sitting back and watching everything. Keep track as best you can what is going on and maybe try saying no etc if he comes to you for the money or at the very least if he is broke then ask to see the statements and why you are justified in this .

You want to spend the rest of your life with this man then there has to be full disclosure by both of you . You have done your bit now let him do his . I would firmly suggest that you tell him you now need to start a savings account in both your names he should at least be able to contribute to this if he refuses ask him where is the money to come from for the wedding and house deposit. If he refuses then as suspected he things you should pay all and you have your answers .

rainbowtrout

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

I was hoping to avoid specifics here but now it seems relevant. The RTA I was involved in has had a permanent albeit minor effect on my mobility. It's not preventing me from getting around but it's limited my ability to exercise and do sports etc which would be something I enjoyed before. There is a few fairly noticeable things, including some close to my face, hair growth etc but I'm assured it will eventually be close enough to pre-accident so i've almost come to terms with all of it now. That said, I could not have done this without his help and support, it was never life or death so there was never any dramatic bedside prayers but he's helped me a lot in dealing with the aftermath and coming to terms with my new situation. I feel like I owe him my support in return to be honest, i'm sure I could have come out the other end by myself, but I didn't have to.

So, he is a good person, to me anyway.

I'm sure he did support you and it was very noble of him, it doesn't mean he can't have a gambling problem at the same time and burn through all this money and then turn to you for a handout. Being nice and being a gambler are not mutually exclusive.

You said yourself he was charismatic. Do you think he'd be able to wheedle money out of you and his mother so easily if he wasn't??

You don't owe him anything. Sure you've invested in this relationship, but for it to work in the longrun he has to come clean about his spending, his likely addiction and want to change. Because he was nice to you when you were recovering doesn't mean you fund his gambling lifestyle for the rest of his life, because that's what you are currently doing. By paying his way for real life stuff he is able to fritter his money away on his addiction.

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

An update on the other situ. Last night wasn't a great time to talk he had a rough day in work and wasn't in the best of form. We went out for dinner and I lied an said I read an article about how it's really hard to get loans or overdrafts or anything if you have gaming transactions on your statement. I was expecting him to get defensive with me but he really didn't. He said the most he's ever spent is €100 one week and that was an accident, he meant to transfer €10. He also said that was over a year ago and he's never made the same mistake again. I told him to be careful and also suggested finding some free games which he said wouldn't be as good. He suggested getting a prepaid credit card for his gaming which will keep the transactions off his statement. I don't know how I feel about that honestly? It doesn't really change anything.

Don't make excuses for him, everyone has busy lives, have crap days in work etc. There is never a good time to talk about a possible addiction.

That story about the €100... he realised you're getting a little suspicious so he's fed you a tidbit to pacify you. Don't you think if his spending was under control at €10 per week, you'd have heard all about it if he spent €100 by accident?

So then he further tried to pacify you by saying it's never happened since. Lying through his teeth.

He told you the truth in the next line: free games wouldn't be as good.

If he wasn't a gambler playing free games would be fine. But that's not enough for him.

And you're right, prepaid cards don't solve anything. If anything he's trying to stay one step ahead of you. If you push to see his current credit card statement I'd bet that it's full of gambling transactions. If he gets a prepaid card you probably won't be able to see any of it.

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

So playing it safe as he was already on edge, I also brought up perhaps getting a joint bank account for expenses that I kept the card for. I suggested transferring a little bit more each month - maybe €500 for him and €900 for me. Then if he ran short because he spent his money on things that weren't important, at least if he was resorting to that account it would be his own money. Then the surplus every month could be transferred in to a savings account for whenever we need it. He was very much against this and felt I was trying to take over his life and it turned in to an argument about how lunches and petrol would never amount to €500 and I was being ridiculous and trying to manipulate him and how would he ever be able to put aside €500 when he can't even survive on what he gets now.

And the next question should be why he can't survive on 1750 per month when all his bills have been taken care of, and what exactly is he spending it on? He's quite right, lunches and petrol wouldn't cost him €500 per month, so what is he spending €800 per week on for the first two weeks of the month????

He's against this idea because you're trying to take away his gambling money.

Also if he was anyway serious about getting married to you and wanted to help fund the wedding, he would be open to this idea.

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

I see his point, I would hate for anyone to try and dictate to me how I was spending money.

Nope. He just doesn't want you to dictate how much he can fritter away on gambling. He has no point for you to see. He has a problem and he doesn't want to deal with it and you are the crutch that will keep funding his lifestyle. He doesn't want you to take that away from him.

Stop subbing his lunch money for the last two weeks of the month this month and see what happens.

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

Something else which clicked in (and I really don't want to go with the thoughts he might have a gambling problem)

Addictions are not nice things to deal with by their nature OP, and you've already had a lot to consider from the advice you got on this thread, but if you don't take steps to deal with it, the problem will never be dealt with, because he's not going to do it while you're there to enable his addiction.

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

I have noticed after he runs out of money he is still able to play these games. He has always told me that he has won so many times in the lead up that the funds are in his account but now I'm questioning this.

See the thing is, if gambling online was just a hobby where he spent a few euro every week it wouldn't be a problem. If he was broke at the end of the month and he had a couple of hundred in his online gambling account to spare he would just transfer it over and use it to pay his daily expenses. But he doesn't. Every penny he wins goes back into gambling more or less.

There is a common phrase which refers to gambling 'The house always wins' ILoveBananas explained it in detail in an earlier post, but your fiance will always lose more than he wins. You will never hear about the losses only the wins. For him to win €500 he's lost an awful lot more.

He can't win as much as he lets on anyway. The maths don't allow it.

Also, he tells you he runs out of money. It doesn't necessarily make it true. Why would he tell you he has money, when you fund his lifestyle? When it happens this month tell him to take it out of his gaming account and see what happens.

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

It's not impossible that he is pretending he's out of money when he is not. I know what he earns, I've seen his payslips and I've seen his bank statements arrive in the post but I have never once noticed one lying around whereas his phone bills and other post is all left in a pile of our correspondence in our kitchen. I flicked through it this morning and there is nothing from his bank at all so there is a possibility these are being kept somewhere deliberately. I can't ask for him to show me his statement though, that's like asking to see someone's diary. I respect him more than that.

Yes, there is a claim pending but it will be a long time before we smell or see it. So, nothing is planned for that money, we've no idea if or when that will ever happen.

Funny that, he clearly doesn't mind you seeing his correspondence when it's left lying around the house, but never his bank statements. So what's he trying to hide? There are transactions on it that he doesn't want you to see. It would seem a bit out of character to hide only one piece of correspondence when the rest including his payslip are available for you to see.

You have a lot of thinking ahead OP. But if you want this to stop, you have to stop enabling his behaviour. Let his money run out.

kylith

Twas Not wrote: »

Online gambling.

I'm of the opinion that that is probably what it is, but since the OP seems so sure it isn't I'm just trying to encourage her to ask where it goes, since it's unlikely to just evaporate. My other guess would be that he's actually loaded and his bank account is very healthy but he's of the opinion that he'll just get her to pay his way because he's such a miser.

Penny Tration

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

Well thank you for your input.

I think it's harsh that people expect me to get up and leave someone i've spent most of my adult life with overnight with very little insight in to the full dynamics of our situation and with only a hint of a problem.

I will do my best to investigate this further and make an informed decision. I don't know much of gambling at all. I didn't even realise there was a potential problem until yesterday. I can't bulldoze my entire emotional life based on a few anonymous internet comments so forgive me.

Thanks everyone, I'll take it from here

I wouldn't automatically jump to telling you to dump him, first off.

If you're financing him, you're well within your rights to want to see his bank statements. If he has nothing to hide, why is he hiding these?

The fact that he says non-paid games aren't fun is worrying. They're the same thing, just without money. He's pretty much admitted the fun is in betting.

If he's only spent a tenner a week on gambling, where is his money gone?? He needs plausible explanations for this.

Honestly, what you're posting, I saw in my father for years. Even though he's been in recovery for over 10 years, he still has some of the traits, you never fully lose them.

I'm not suggesting you leave him. But you need to have a very serious discussion. He needs to account for his outgoings. In general, I wouldn't expect someone to tell me where their money goes, but when you're financing them, I absolutely would. Because I earn more than my boyfriend, and have less outgoings, I pay for more than he does. So, if I ask, he tells me where his money has gone, without feeling any need to argue.

If he admits to a problem, good. He can get help, you can support him, and you can hopefully build a happy life together.

If he doesn't admit to it, and can't or won't account for his money, then you need to ask yourself are you happy being his cash cow, and accepting the venom he spews over you earning more?

I wish you all the best. It may be no harm to speak to your GP about getting a referral to somebody who can help you with your self esteem, because you seem to be lacking in it, and almost afraid to broach anything with him. You need open and honest communication if you're going to spend your lives together.

Twas Not

kylith wrote: »

I'm of the opinion that that is probably what it is, but since the OP seems so sure it isn't I'm just trying to encourage her to ask where it goes, since it's unlikely to just evaporate. My other guess would be that he's actually loaded and his bank account is very healthy but he's of the opinion that he'll just get her to pay his way because he's such a miser.

The OP says she doesn't know much about online gambling and she seems to want to keep the head in the sand.

There's a pretty easy solution here. Just get a look at the last 12 months statements for the bank account or credit card linked to the online gambling site. It should tell the true story here.

rainbowtrout

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

Well thank you for your input.

I think it's harsh that people expect me to get up and leave someone i've spent most of my adult life with overnight with very little insight in to the full dynamics of our situation and with only a hint of a problem.

I will do my best to investigate this further and make an informed decision. I don't know much of gambling at all. I didn't even realise there was a potential problem until yesterday. I can't bulldoze my entire emotional life based on a few anonymous internet comments so forgive me.

Thanks everyone, I'll take it from here

OP, it is hard to take on board lots of information from anonymous people on the internet and yes, you do have an emotional relationship with this man etc, etc.

No one is telling you to up and leave - but your original post described how he made snide remarks about your earnings every day and how he would be earning more money than you if he was doing your job.

None of this behaviour will change while the problem of his spending remains. You might love him and think he's the bees knees, but I can't see how this situation will improve if the problem of where all his money is going isn't tackled head on and solved.

You can make changes by not supporting the way he spends his money, but he will also have to make changes and if indeed he does have a gambling addiciton, he will have to be the one to make the change.

strandroad

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

Something else which clicked in (and I really don't want to go with the thoughts he might have a gambling problem) I have noticed after he runs out of money he is still able to play these games. He has always told me that he has won so many times in the lead up that the funds are in his account but now I'm questioning this.

OP credit money can be paid out to use at any time. Look at what's going on here right in front of you - even if he's really out of cash after two weeks he could take his credit out and pay for his lunches like a normal person. But he prefers to leave it in to gamble and take your money for lunches instead.
He also turns it around to make you feel bad about it - that's textbook manipulation.

Twas Not

mhge wrote: »

OP credit money can be paid out to use at any time. Look at what's going on here right in front of you - even if he's really out of cash after two weeks he could take his credit out and pay for his lunches like a normal person. But he prefers to leave it in to gamble and take your money for lunches instead.
He also turns it around to make you feel bad about it - that's textbook manipulation.

Manipulation manipulation manipulation !

That's the tool of the gambler. Have seen it up close. You would be amazed really amazed the length gamblers go to feed their addiction. It's as bad as heroin.

res ipsa

It seems like you're the pied piper, so start calling the tune!

tinkerbell

OP, asking for his bank statements when YOU are bailing him out isn't like reading someone's diary. You're funding him 26 weeks out of the year - you have every right to see his bank statements! Otherwise, tell him you are no longer bank rolling him. Things are not going to change if you keep your mouth shut. You owe it to yourself to tell him how it is. People are not telling you to just up and leave him without talking to him as maybe you'd like to salvage your relationship. People are telling you to stop making excuses for him and deal with the problem.

Big Bag of Chips

You know nothing about gambling, and up until yesterday it wasn't even a consideration... So please use the advice and experience of people who do know about it. People who are offering you advice based on what they do know, to maybe help you not get so deep as they've gotten.

I would guess you are in pretty deep at this stage. By the time things start becoming suspicious to the outside observer, the person themselves are gone too far.

The fella I've been telling you about had 2 maxed out credit cards and 2 separate bank loans that his wife was completely unaware of.

I know all of this might be difficult for you to hear, and difficult to process right now. So take your time with it. Read and reread... But please don't dismiss people. This is salvageable, but if you bury your head in the sand the same way that your fiancé is burying his head it is only going to get you deeper and deeper into it.

Trust me, you think he was being honest with you last night about the mistake with €100, and there's nothing else to tell... I would bet my house (bad pun) that everytime you talk to him about this he will tell you another little bit, and another little bit. But it won't be the full picture. It could be years before you find out the full extent, if you ever do.

Czarcasm

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Trust me, you think he was being honest with you last night about the mistake with €100, and there's nothing else to tell... I would bet my house (bad pun) that everytime you talk to him about this he will tell you another little bit, and another little bit. But it won't be the full picture. It could be years before you find out the full extent, if you ever do.

Actually for the OP I think this is an entirely relevant and excellent point to consider. Between them the OP and her boyfriend have the guts of €150k income, and he can't get a €500 overdraft from his bank?

OP you're not earning €100k a year without knowing that being refused a €500 overdraft while earning €42k a year... It just doesn't happen, unless there is something seriously, seriously wrong. People on a quarter of your boyfriends income are able to get overdraft facilities of €1k after six months with their bank.

I know I keep coming back to the €42k isn't a lot comment, but it's enough for a deposit on a house. Your boyfriend can't even get an overdraft facility for €500, so what do you think are your chances of getting a mortgage for €500k?

The other thing I worry about for you OP is that if you actually DO decide to question, and I mean question (not just "Can we talk about your spending? No? Ok then") your boyfriend about his finances, and you do decide that he has to learn to budget properly for himself, and you do decide that you're no longer willing to fund his spendthrift lifestyle... I'm just worried that he might go along with you to your face, while behind your back he's tapping Payday Loan companies, and, well, whatever you might be forgiven for not knowing about banking, I'm sure you're all too aware how payday loan companies make their money, and the utter destruction dependency on them causes in peoples lives.


EDIT: Actually OP forget about ever getting a mortgage, I'm just going over the thread again to see is there anything I can pick up on that I may have missed out on, and I'm wondering what hope have you of ever having a serious conversation about your finances or your future when you can't even make a decision on a bloody couch -

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

Thank you all for the feedback.

Yes, I think I have absorbed a lot of his resentment and dismissed it, more so because I wanted to avoid acknowledging that this is really an issue between us. We got engaged 2 and a half years ago but we have said 2016 so no planning has really gotten underway yet.

We are a solid couple otherwise and I feel like he does bring out the best in me. In terms of sharing the burden of cost, usually we take turns paying for things but even at that I am more likely to pay for the bigger expenses. He lodges some money in to my account at the end of the month after he has been paid and all bills are paid by me during the month. It's pretty fair.

I don't mind paying extra honestly, with the couch I didn't even think we needed a new couch, he did, then he picked one of the most expensive ones in the shop, which I loved but thought it was a little extravagant. Then when he offered to contribute 20% he genuinely thought that that was fair and was embarrassed that he couldn't reach 50% of the cost. But he basically picked one he couldn't afford knowing I'd wind up paying for most of it and that's why I joked about him only sitting on 20% of it. He needs to see.

The problem is, if I bring it up he will completely deny any resentment toward my earnings and tell me that I don't need on a high horse about my wages.... If I wait until he brings it up he is already in defensive mode.

We don't really fight the rest of the time and I love him very deeply, I just can't see a way to tackle this with out blowing the whole thing out of proportion and creating a hurricane

Your boyfriends spending, and your relationship is already out of control, everything is already blown out of proportion, and now your only option is to engage in some serious damage limitation exercise, and as mike_ie says in his first post, you really need to sit down together and have that conversation with no more lies from either of you, because the more you lie to appease your boyfriend, the easier you're making it for him to make a fool of you.

kylith

Twas Not wrote: »

The OP says she doesn't know much about online gambling and she seem to want to keep the head in the sand.

There's a pretty easy solution here. Just get a look at the last 12 months statements for the bank account or credit card linked to the online gambling site. It should tell the true story here.

I agree with you that it's most likely that he is gambling but if the OP doesn't want to believe it then she won't until the proof is in her hands.

OP, thankfully I've never had a relationship with a gambler, but I did have one as a housemate once. I couldn't have cared less if he shoved his money up his arse as long as he paid his rent and bills, but let me tell you this - if your OH is using slots or roulette then €10 wouldn't last pissing time, even if it's only €1 a play then that's only 10 spins, or about 5 minutes of play. If he's claiming to win enough in that time to fund him the rest of the week then he is either a brazen-faced liar or the luckiest man on the planet and he should be paying your way. There is no way that he is only spending €10 a week if he is spending more than 15 minutes on these sites.

No matter what, OP, you handing him more money to tide him over until payday should require you to see, not be told, see with your own eyes where his money is going; i.e. being shown a bank statement and, well, if he's spending the money on gambling you'll be vindicated, and if he's using it to support Venezuelan orphans you can apologise.

Penny Tration

With regards to his online gambling, there's a pretty easy way to find out if he's being honest - tell him to show you his transactions on the website.

pookie82

Nobody WANTS to have to believe or even have to consider some of the things that have been suggested to you here as the root of the problem... but if you don't want to consider them, it's all a little pointless asking, really.

No one here is trying to attack YOU... all of the venom is actually directed at your situation, a situation created by him. You seem like a wonderful person whose only flaw is being unquestionably generous and unwilling to "nag"... they're hardly bad personality traits, are they?

However, if you're trying to broach a conversation with him about his finances and he shuts you down, you won't have a happy marriage with this man. He's not willing to be transparent about the most basic aspects of what it takes to make a life together, buy a house, raise children, feed yourselves... how do you think this will end?

Up to you from here how much you want to force the issue with him but I, like everyone else here, I assume, only wish you the very best.

Dark Phoenix

Op I wanted to reply to your thread because I am worried about you. You sound like a lovely kind person who is staying with someone who is taking advantage of her because her confidence is low, especially after a recent accident. You have been with your OH 8 years and its very hard to leave because it is at this stage all you know. Its impossible to think about not being with them because most memories and events you have had were with them.

About a decade ago I moved in with my ex. He had just gotten a new job and he was okay at first but after a while he started running out of money. Now he didnt expect me to fund him and he had an ex wife and kids to support so at first it didnt seem odd but after a while I knew he was keeping things from me. Like you I was terrified to confront him because he had an answer for everything. I ended up going through his things one day when he was out because I'd hit breaking point - he was a cocaine addict. It was his first well paid job and what had he done with the money? stuffed it up his damn nose. He had been so devious about it all, lied about his money, about where he was, about what he was doing. Anyway he had an addictive depressive personality. We got through that (I should have dumped him) and it was only ten years later that we broke up. How we broke up well he decided one day to up sticks and leave but afterwards it became obvious that it was all a facade he had it all planned for a while. The oast few years hadnt been great due to him being broke the whole time (all as a result of his past bad decisions but never his fault) and he had an addictive personality if he drank he drank to get hammered etc. Anyway why am I telling you this? because if someone can live with you and lie to you every day they rarely change their spots. My ex didnt. Sure he stopped taking drugs (as far as I know!) but he would and could lie about whatever suited him. That never went away. Often I would just know damn well he was lying about something but he had a way of making you feel like an idiot. It is really hard to believe that someone you love is bareface lying to you which often is what makes it easy for them to do it.

Your OH may or may not be a gambling addict. However the reality is that between you, with a salary of almost 150k, no mortgage and no dependents you are 'planning on saving up' for a wedding. You should be able to afford a wedding in a few months, you should be able to afford very many things. He is not contributing at all. yes he gives you 750 at the start of the month but then he takes a good chunk back off you for his lunch, for his petrol etc half way through the month.

His money is going somewhere. he is secretive for a reason. He did not get an overdraft for a reason. He hides his bank statements for a reason. When you try and talk about it he gets defensive or changes the subject for a reason. he knows how to manage you - you give him the lunch money or he tells his mammy on you who you are already afraid doesnt like you. he makes snide remarks about you being wealthy to distract from the fact that he is living expense free on 43k.

His money is going somewhere. Its not clothing or you would see it. Its not going out as you would know. It could well be gambling. It could be a drug addiction. It could even be him squirrelling away money as part of an exit strategy or for another reason.

Your choices are hard. You can force him to talk, you can investigate (always a hard one because no one wants to breech trust by going through a partners things). My suggestion would be give yourself a day or two to clear your head and then have a look around the place you share when he isnt there. I am not suggesting that you go throguh his personal stuff but just look around and I bet when you do this with s clear head you will notice things you wonder about. Are there expensive items around that he has bought or are those now gone somewhere. Has he loads of clothes you didnt notice before. is there an area of the place he discourages you from going into or cleaning? With my ex he became quite territorial about the spare room so I looked in there one day and found a box of condoms (he swears to this day he never cheated but who knows) and several items with specks of what powder etc. It was all obvious and there to see without me ever checking his phone or going through his stuff I just had to open my eyes and I started to see things.

I know it probably feels like no way could you be okay without him. You can, you will. You cannot move forward in the relationship really until you know what the hell is going on and then decide if its worth saving. Do it soon before you end up in ten years being the woman who used to earn 100k+ a year but has no assets to show for it because it was all spent on funding the lifestyle of an adult child.

kjl

OP i have to say that this is honestly one of the most interesting threads I have ever read.

You seem to be a really nice, smart person who has done very well for yourself, but somehow you have this leech hanging on. I can never understand how clever people like yourself get conned by people like your bf. He doesn't pull his weight, he never takes you out or buys you things and has his hand out expecting you to subsidise hes already generous salary.

This guy has really mastered the treat em mean keep em keen form of manipulation. He constantly belittles you about your earnings but at the same time completely relies on you for lunch.

Whether or not he has a gambling addiction (which given all the evidence seems likely) he still blows all his money every month. Like I could understand the odd time running out of money, but every month? If it's not gambling it's something else like drugs or prostitutes or maybe someone else on the side.

Not only that, he resents you. He has some daft notion that if he had applied for the same job he would be on much more than you. You know this isn't true, yet you allow him to control you with this.

I ask to see his accounts, when he object, tell him why should you subsidies his lifestyle and not be entitled to see where he spends his salary.

Toots

Toots* wrote: »

OP, I'm not trying to shout at you, but I'd be seriously concerned about your situation.

I work in a bank and I can categorically tell you that being in a job for 5 years is not a requirement for an overdraft, particularly one that small. My inkling is that his account has been operating badly, they saw all the online gambling transactions, and it was a straight out decline.

Addicts are absolute master manipulators. That whole thing about 'by all accounts he wins most of the time' sounds like exactly the type of thing a gambler would say. "The house always wins." If he's winning enough to buy laptops etc then he's betting a lot more than a few euro a go.

ILikeBananas wrote: »

OP, sorry if this sounds patronising but I'm going to assume that you don't understand the mathematics behind casino games.

To use a trivial example, let's imagine there is a game that flips a coin and it costs €1 to play. Now if you guess the correct side you get your €1 and win an extra 95c. However if you guess wrong you lose your original €1.

In a game like that you'll win money as often as you lose money. The key fact though is that when you win you don't win as much money as you lose when you lose (each time you win you make a profit of 95c, but each time you lose, you lose €1). So in the long run you'll lose money. Every single casino type game, no matter how complicated or exciting looking, runs on this basic principle.
It's impossible to win at these games in the long run which is why there are no such things as professional roulette players. (As an aside: The only game that is actually possible to become profitable at is poker purely because you can make more money off of the other players than you lose to the house at the same time, but even that is so difficult to do, that only about 10% of players do it in the long run).


So in short, no he's not making money from these games. What you're seeing is the short term wins but you're not hearing about the losses. As someone else pointed out, if he's winning €400-€500 when he wins then that's a signal that he's putting a lot more money in than €10 every week or so.

Just to expand on this a bit, there's a lot of psychology behind gambling also. So many of these games (particularly online bingo) are programmed that you're often ridiculously close to winning, but not quite there. This encourages the gambler to spend more money, they think that the next one will be 'the big one'.

Then after several more games (and obviously a good bit more money), they do win. The vast majority of the time the amount they win is less than the amount they had to spend in order to win it (10 games lost at €50 per game vs winnings of €300) But in their mind the fact that they won confirms that if they hang in there, they will win. This can lead to them reasoning that if they bet even more money, they'll have an even bigger win, but as ILikeBananas pointed out, they'll never come out on top.

The professional poker players who make big bucks don't earn it from game winnings, it's the prize money for actually winning the tournament. He's not going to get rich with online gambling.

I've seen accounts owned by gambling addicts and the pattern usually goes like this:

01/07/14 DEBIT "Online Betting" €500
02/07/14 DEBIT "Online Betting" €500
03/07/14 DEBIT "Online Betting" €500
04/07/14 DEBIT Petrol station/local shop €40
DEBIT "Online Betting" €500
05/07/14 DEBIT "Online Betting" €500
06/07/14 DEBIT "Online Betting" €500
07/07/14 CREDIT "Winnings" €1000

Then the whole cycle begins again. You usually see that the bets will be higher in the days immediately following the win, particularly if there's two wins close together because the gambler thinks they're "on a roll". You also see the situations where they've gotten themselves into a mess and they know it, but think that if they keep going they'll have one big win that'll sort everything out, and then they'll walk away. Unfortunately even if the big win comes, they don't walk away.

I've met A LOT of customers whose partners are gambling addicts and usually by the time they find out, the problem is already bad. I had one guy who had absolutely no idea that his wife had ever gambled in her life until he went to take €20 out of the ATM and it swallowed his card, when I checked his account (joint with his wife) I discovered that the cards had been revoked. The account was overdrawn and the wife had been forcing credit with online gambling. He looked like he was going to be sick and asked could he withdraw €20 from their savings, but it had been cleaned out too. That's just one story, I could tell you dozens more.

OP, I know this whole scenario is nightmarish, and I really hope we're all wrong in our suspicions, but there are serious alarm bells ringing. His comment about the free gambling not being as much fun is also a warning. I play poker quite regularly (not online, but with my family/friends) and it's equally fun whether we're playing with money or with matchsticks.

I've never suggested this to anyone before, because usually I feel that snooping on partner is a massive invasion of privacy, but I really think you need to do a bit of digging here. Have a hunt around the house and see can you find his bank statements. If you know he uses the same username and password for everything, try logging in to one of the online gambling sites and check his usage history.

Stop giving him extra money. Let him wheedle and whinge. If ye are renting, tell him you're putting the money away so that ye can buy a house and be settled in before the wedding. If he's giving out that he hasn't got money for lunch, get some nice lunch foods in and let him bring a packed lunch. If you work in the same company, give him a lift to work, or buy him a leap card and drop him to the bus stop. For the love of all that's holy, DO NOT open up a joint account with him.

Obviously I'm not going to tell you to outright leave him, but you HAVE to do some investigation because he's just being too evasive and I think that deep down you know something's not right. If you investigate and discover that he is hiding stuff from you, at least you'll have a better idea where things stand.

Matteroffact

I get the impression from reading this post that you are the one who resents your partners salary and not him resenting yours. This is not meant to be a criticism though. I get the impression that he appreciates the fact that you earn more and when he said imagine what money he would be on if he had gone your route that this was a compliment, and not an insult. I feel that you resent having to chip in more money for things than he does but to me men have been doing this for centuries and have never resented it. It probably hurts your partner's ego that he is not the one who is earning more and that is understandable, but he acts like it doesn't bother him and that irks you. The best advice has already been given here and that is that you should both be chipping in to a central fund and then that money is used to buy whatever is needed and you both should have an equal say in what is bought and not you having a bigger say just because you contribute more.

LegacyUser

Dear OP, you have a whole lot to take in here and I can imagine you're overwhelmed by the posters having highlighted the gambling when you thought you only had a fella who was a bit tight/mean spirited in the financial aspects of your relationship.

I'm going unregged for this because I'm slightly ashamed at my own situation, ie. I'm a lone parent, in receipt of handouts from the state (yes, that means from all of you tax paying employed folk, so thanks - I am grateful and ambitious to turn my situation around asap). I want to give some perspective to the 42K though. I support 2 kids, pay my bills, run a car and manage to have food in the house on approximately 17K per year. The ODD time, I have had to ask my folks for some help and I feel so indescribably guilty about that (although they are delighted to help) that I beat myself up about buying myself one bottle of cheap ass wine for the weekend. I hate being the poor mouth, really REALLY hate it and it will change one day, I know.

If there's one thing that this income has taught me, it's that without nice money, you can't have nice things. Your fella is on some very nice money, for someone with no kids who has a very solvent partner. All the gambling speculation aside, that he is broke for the last 2 weeks of the month and simultaneously resents/requires your handouts is a massive problem and one that he is effectively bullying you into not being able to address with him. If he shouts you down or dismisses your opinion every time you bring this up, you are being put in the unlovely position of either letting him be in sole charge of your financial relationship, or having to get much more proactive about taking the reins, ie. stop financing him altogether. This may seem unimaginable, given his ability to make you feel like sh1t when you don't agree to/question his spending.

OP, you know you have a problem when someone on 17K with 2 kids is feeling sorry for you. Do yourself a favour and rise to the confrontation about this, and find out what he's really like NOW, rather than when you're married with kids, eh? Good luck.

rainbowtrout

Matteroffact wrote: »

I get the impression from reading this post that you are the one who resents your partners salary and not him resenting yours. This is not meant to be a criticism though. I get the impression that he appreciates the fact that you earn more and when he said imagine what money he would be on if he had gone your route that this was a compliment, and not an insult. I feel that you resent having to chip in more money for things than he does but to me men have been doing this for centuries and have never resented it. It probably hurts your partner's ego that he is not the one who is earning more and that is understandable, but he acts like it doesn't bother him and that irks you. The best advice has already been given here and that is that you should both be chipping in to a central fund and then that money is used to buy whatever is needed and you both should have an equal say in what is bought and not you having a bigger say just because you contribute more.

That's very unfair. They both contribute to pay rent and bills. He has about €400 per week for the rest of the month for discretionary spending and it's gone in two weeks. It doesn't matter how much the OP earns, she shouldn't have to fund his lifestyle when he can't manage his money.

The bit highlighted above couldn't be taken as anything but an insult. He's saying it to get a dig at her.

Twas Not

rainbowtrout wrote: »

That's very unfair. They both contribute to pay rent and bills. He has about €400 per week for the rest of the month for discretionary spending and it's gone in two weeks. It doesn't matter how much the OP earns, she shouldn't have to fund his lifestyle when he can't manage his money.

The bit highlighted above couldn't be taken as anything but an insult. He's saying it to get a dig at her.

Agreed. It's said in an insulting mean spirited way. Almost like "well if I started when you did where you did I'd be on 200k cos I'm better than you".

Czarcasm

otherperspective wrote: »

OP, you know you have a problem when someone on 17K with 2 kids is feeling sorry for you. Do yourself a favour and rise to the confrontation about this, and find out what he's really like NOW, rather than when you're married with kids, eh? Good luck.

otherperspective I just wanted to say I don't think anyone would deny helping out someone who is actually trying to make a better life for themselves. Your determination is what shines for me in your post, and I know it's going to pay off for you in the long term while setting a great example of a grown adult taking responsibility for your children.

OP if you're still following this thread, otherperspective's story above is one I hear on a day in, day out basis, each story with it's own nuances and quirks. That's the thing about PI, posters here are talking from experience. As I read Dark Phoenix' post above I thought "When did my wife join Boards?", because she could've written that post ten years ago. The difference being that I've always been the sole earner in our relationship, but because money means nothing to me, if we were to have any future, I had to let my wife handle the finances. I simply cannot have access to money as I don't trust myself with it. My wife gave me €20 to go to the shop for smokes for myself one night, I met a homeless couple on my way and took them with me down to the shop and let them get €20 worth of groceries for themselves. For my wife, it wasn't the money, it was the fact that I couldn't even do that much without not seeing what I had done, again!

OP you're basically bankrolling a spoilt child. It takes some doing to go out and spend a grand on a night out, and then buy a load of fancy gadgets at the start of the month, and then as you said he's tired of them a month later, and then coming to you mid-month to be bankrolled again? You're so scared that people won't like you that you'll cower to his demands every time, under threat that he'll run back to his mother, who you know doesn't like you because you're not "good enough" for her son. He doesn't particularly like you either by all accounts, or he would genuinely support you and see that his spending is an issue.

He probably won't though, because he's never been forced to examine his own behavior. I was forced to examine my own behavior OP when it came down to my wife nearly walking out on me. Scared the shìt out of me tbh, and was enough for me to get my act together and sort myself out.

You need to realize your own value OP, because you're worth a hell of a lot more than just somebody else's piggy bank, underneath all that power dressing, there's a person that needs to start copping on before they're left with nothing, and you will be, because if he ever does manage to clean you out, he'll just move on to the next fool, and you'll be left on your own to pick up the pieces.

LegacyUser

I fully intended on bowing out of this thread yesterday however on reflection a lot of posters have been exceptionally helpful and I am utterly grateful for their contributions which have alerted me to things which I can only deal with at my own pace.

I really am disheartened by the contributions dismissing my efforts to come to terms with this in a very short-space of time whilst I am openly having small discussions and trying to investigate these things whilst also dealing with my own emotional overload etc. I am trying to make good choices here so please, I would ask kindly for posters to appreciate this.

Last night I stayed up to watch the end of a movie after he had gone to bed and I (for the first time in my life) decided to open his laptop. His gaming account was logged in and open and I found myself looking at his profile and transaction history. There are no words to describe how horrible and malicious I felt checking up on him and honestly, I'm even more distraught by what I found. I am ashamed and embarrassed for being so oblivious but yes, there's a lot more money moving around the betting account than I have been led to believe....in fact, about twice what I would have even considered to be a problem.

I went to bed and didn't even want to touch him, I feel sad for him if he has this problem but also, I feel quite numb.

Any advice or opinions on how I should tackle this will be greatly recieved. I have not yet said this too him, I'd rather he didn't know I went on to his laptop so if there's a way I could coax it out of him it would be better. I'd rather help him than lose him but at the same time, today, I'm not even sure who he is. Sorry if this sounds very dramatic it's just not the outcome I expected. If anything on some level I was hoping looking at his account would set my mind at ease.

kylith

OP, just to say too... stop feeling guilty that you do better than him. I get the feeling that when he gets snarky you try to make him 'feel better' about it. He's not upset because you earn more than him, he's using your guilt about doing better than him as a stick to beat you with while you flatter his ego.

Next time he says that if he had your job he'd be earning more than you just tell him "Off you go, so. Go do it. If you'd be so great go get a job like mine and make a ton of money". No sympathy for him - if he wanted or could do a job like yours there's nothing stopping him from going looking for one.

Neyite

Toots* wrote: »

I've never suggested this to anyone before, because usually I feel that snooping on partner is a massive invasion of privacy, but I really think you need to do a bit of digging here. Have a hunt around the house and see can you find his bank statements. If you know he uses the same username and password for everything, try logging in to one of the online gambling sites and check his usage history.

I'm also a great one for respecting other's privacy - I personally dont think its right to snoop on someone, but OP, I'm afraid in this case, because it will have a very serious bearing on your lives together if you marry, and you will be as badly affected by his credit rating and financial decisions, that I think you have no choice but to find out everything you can before you marry.

For me, I'd need to see his bank statements and have access to view his online banking account before I could marry. I think because you are on an excellent salary yourself, you see that him being on less than half is on the breadline.

The breadwinner in our family is on similar to your partners salary. Combined, we take home less than half what you both do, and we run two cars, pay rent, bills, and have a child so have added expenses - clothes, shoes, doctors, baby equipment, and pay full time creche fees. We are not rolling in it, and we do have to mind what we spend, but if we had your combined income, we would consider ourselves rich. I think you have lost sight of the fact you both have a massive income combined.

Our next door neighbours just got a mortgage this year and bought a 4 bed house. From start to finish, they began looking in September, and the process complete in March. They are working in the catering industry and together have the same gross salary as your partner has alone. So if they can get a mortgage, on such a low wage (and no, they didnt have assets or a big deposit either) how come a bank wont give your partner €500 overdraft?

You sound lovely. Someone with down to earth values, no airs or graces or delusions of grandeur like your future mother in law, you are someone who's parents worked hard all their lives and showed you the value of working solidly and hard towards your career. I bet they are really proud of you. YOU should be proud of you. I love to see people like you succeed in life.

He has a bad attitude. Putting you down and belittling your achievements is NOT what someone who loves you should do. Sneering or being cruel have no place in a loving relationship. This is a serious red flag. Being defensive, storming off, projecting, gaslighting you when it comes to any thing you are genuinely concerned about is not what someone who would do anything for you would do.

Its great you are recovering from your RTA. But think, for a minute, that if your injuries had been greater, that perhaps you were permanently disabled, and couldnt work, and relied on disability benefit and his salary. If you were physically and financially dependant on him. Maybe throw a couple of children into that scenario if someday you would like that to happen. Think about this. Think about how frustrated and beaten down you would be at his refusal to discuss finances openly. Think about how scared you'd be two weeks of every month when you've no money for your pain meds. Or what if you had a special needs child who needed full time care and you had to live off one wage?

We take the vow when we marry - for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health. And I know a couple, more than one in fact, who had a special needs child, resulting in a drastic lifestyle change with a full time carer and one income. A good friend had cancer and had to give up her business while she got treatment so her household income plummeted. She has 3 kids. I know another woman who was a stay at home mother until her husband had an accident and landed in a wheelchair. My point is, when you marry, you are both in it together. Right now, what is his, is his, and what is yours, is his too. Thats wrong.

Find out as much facts as you can. I doubt any poster will tell you you shouldnt snoop with an issue as serious as this. Then take your time to absorb all the facts, then make the best decision for you.

whats_my_name

I was just about to post something along the lines of what otherperspective has said. My ex earns about €32,000 a year, after tax has a disposable income of about €500 a week. He has a mortgage & all the expenses that go with that, he travels 120 km a day to & from work costing him about €80 a week in petrol, he pays maintenence to his son €75 a week, travels 300km round trip every second week to see his son. I went back to college, thankfully in my final year & we also have a son. If my ex was able to sustain a household (now it was a struggle) with 2 adults & 1 child, paying maintenance for another on his wage, why cant a man with a lot more disposable income not sustain himself??

You come across as a lovely person but I think you need a big dose of reality & I mean that in the nicest possible way, €43k is not a small wage packet by any stretch of the imagination, there is something seriously wrong if one person cannot sustain themselves on that wage & that's not even taking into consideration what you contribute.

LegacyUser

Hi OP.

Something struck me about your situation. It may not have any bearing, but it's worth noting. You mentioned that you were in an RTC and have some scarring. Don't discount the massive effect this will have had on your self-esteem.

You mention how "handsome" and "charismatic" your fiancé is and how he could have anyone he wants and to me that comes across as a genuine fear that he could leave you at any time if you kick up a fuss. On some level you may be feeling "If he leaves me, will I ever meet someone else?"

My mam was in a serious collision a few years ago. She had comparatively minor injuries but suffered significant scarring to her face. I can't stress how huge an effect this had on her. It has taken her YEARS to come to terms with it and she still hates being photographed and feels that it's all people look at, even though with time it's barely noticeable.

Obviously I don't know and it's none of my business what injuries you have sustained, but being aware of the effect it may be having on you might help you to see things more objectively.

As for the money thing, my partner and I put together earn just a little more than what your fianceé does and we still pay rent at inflated Dublin prices, car and bus costs, all our bills, food and supplies for our pets, some little treats like books and dvds, prescription medicine costs, a trip to Costa every Saturday for breakfast, and[/]b put money into savings every month. We're hardly loaded but we don't like like paupers either. There's no good reason for a salary of €43k to leave someone broke for the last two weeks of the month.

Neyite

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

I fully intended on bowing out of this thread yesterday however on reflection a lot of posters have been exceptionally helpful and I am utterly grateful for their contributions which have alerted me to things which I can only deal with at my own pace.

I really am disheartened by the contributions dismissing my efforts to come to terms with this in a very short-space of time whilst I am openly having small discussions and trying to investigate these things whilst also dealing with my own emotional overload etc. I am trying to make good choices here so please, I would ask kindly for posters to appreciate this.

Last night I stayed up to watch the end of a movie after he had gone to bed and I (for the first time in my life) decided to open his laptop. His gaming account was logged in and open and I found myself looking at his profile and transaction history. There are no words to describe how horrible and malicious I felt checking up on him and honestly, I'm even more distraught by what I found. I am ashamed and embarrassed for being so oblivious but yes, there's a lot more money moving around the betting account than I have been led to believe....in fact, about twice what I would have even considered to be a problem.

I went to bed and didn't even want to touch him, I feel sad for him if he has this problem but also, I feel quite numb.

Any advice or opinions on how I should tackle this will be greatly recieved. I have not yet said this too him, I'd rather he didn't know I went on to his laptop so if there's a way I could coax it out of him it would be better. I'd rather help him than lose him but at the same time, today, I'm not even sure who he is. Sorry if this sounds very dramatic it's just not the outcome I expected. If anything on some level I was hoping looking at his account would set my mind at ease.

I'm so sorry to hear that you found out something awful, but I am glad that you are finding out the truth, however much it hurts you.

Firstly, I would contact gambling anon and get advice on how to handle it with him. Now you know that he has a serious problem, you need to try to get a handle on the typical mindset of a gambler.

I'm sad to say, many lose houses, savings, and families before they are willing to face up to their addictions and address their behaviour. I know someone who willingly let his children be fostered rather than spend the money he was gambling on rearing them.

So, dont confront him just yet. Gather your information - get printouts or screenshots of his gambling accounts, talk to GAnon. Go back and re-read Big Bag of Chips posts about her friend and husband who have trudged down that road.

And may I offer massive virtual hugs to you. I'm so sorry, you dont deserve this.

December2012

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

I fully intended on bowing out of this thread yesterday however on reflection a lot of posters have been exceptionally helpful and I am utterly grateful for their contributions which have alerted me to things which I can only deal with at my own pace.

I really am disheartened by the contributions dismissing my efforts to come to terms with this in a very short-space of time whilst I am openly having small discussions and trying to investigate these things whilst also dealing with my own emotional overload etc. I am trying to make good choices here so please, I would ask kindly for posters to appreciate this.

Last night I stayed up to watch the end of a movie after he had gone to bed and I (for the first time in my life) decided to open his laptop. His gaming account was logged in and open and I found myself looking at his profile and transaction history. There are no words to describe how horrible and malicious I felt checking up on him and honestly, I'm even more distraught by what I found. I am ashamed and embarrassed for being so oblivious but yes, there's a lot more money moving around the betting account than I have been led to believe....in fact, about twice what I would have even considered to be a problem.

I went to bed and didn't even want to touch him, I feel sad for him if he has this problem but also, I feel quite numb.

Any advice or opinions on how I should tackle this will be greatly recieved. I have not yet said this too him, I'd rather he didn't know I went on to his laptop so if there's a way I could coax it out of him it would be better. I'd rather help him than lose him but at the same time, today, I'm not even sure who he is. Sorry if this sounds very dramatic it's just not the outcome I expected. If anything on some level I was hoping looking at his account would set my mind at ease.

I think you were right to do what you did.

I think you're starting to process a lot of information and you're head, quite understandably, is spinning.

Your boyfriend will probably justify his spend on gambling - tell you it's not that much, that he can afford it, etc.

He is going to try and blame you for it - somehow you will have caused the problem by "not trusting" him, "snooping" and probably he will justify his insecurities about money by saying it's you who make him feel this way by examining his money. He's wrong of course, but that doesn't matter.

He may be an addict or just an asshole but you love him, you want this to work and that's fine too.

Maybe the best thing to do right now is nothing direct. Contact Gam Anon and see if they can give you advice on how to deal with this.

Or you could try an alternative approach and try and bring this out in the open by making an appointment with a mortgage broker, forcing him to list his expenditure. This might highlight whether it not the gambling is an addiction or an expensive hobby.

For now, don't tell him you know.

strandroad

OP I am very sorry for you, it must have been horrible to see it all in black and white.

But at least you are no longer groping in the dark and doubting yourself - you have identified the problem. Also, none of this is your fault, your fiance is an addict. I don't have any advice to offer on gambling addiction (i'm sure you can plenty of good advice here and in support griups) but I hope that you can start dealing with it once you've seen the situation clearly - you seem to be a very decent and balanced person.

tinkerbell

Oh OP, I'm sorry you found what you did. You did the right thing by snooping - after all, you are bank rolling him so when he's costing you money, you need to know why he can't afford to pay for his own things.

I'd echo what the others have said - contact GamAnon, they'd be best placed to advise you how to proceed next. I know it's an awful lot to process right now and your life has been turned upside down in the space of a few days but you are best finding out about this now than further down the road.

kylith

Definitely take the advice to contact GamAnon, or a similar help group, get printouts and screenshots of his account.

The only thing is, I know you want to get him to admit to it so that you don't look like the bad one for snooping but I honestly don't think that that will ever happen. You will have to gather your evidence and confront him with it. You will have to say "I checked your online gambling account and you have been lying to me", or words to that effect. There is no way that you can ask if there's anything he wants to talk about and have him confess that he's been blowing all his money, and probably some of yours, on gambling. He is a liar and he will continue to lie until he knows that he has been caught out.

Think of it like a cheater, if you ask them if they're cheating they'll say no. Tell them you saw them kiss someone and they'll swear blind it was just a kiss until you tell them you saw them go to a hotel, and so on. A habitual liar will admit to only as much as they know you know.

There will be a fight. He will accuse you of snooping, driving him to it, making mountains out of molehills, all kinds of stuff. Stay strong and stay calm.

When he admits that he has a problem, and you may have to be prepared for the fact that he may not be at the point where he can admit it, I think that he can contact the sites and ask them to block him and they will do that.

rainbowtrout

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

I fully intended on bowing out of this thread yesterday however on reflection a lot of posters have been exceptionally helpful and I am utterly grateful for their contributions which have alerted me to things which I can only deal with at my own pace.

I really am disheartened by the contributions dismissing my efforts to come to terms with this in a very short-space of time whilst I am openly having small discussions and trying to investigate these things whilst also dealing with my own emotional overload etc. I am trying to make good choices here so please, I would ask kindly for posters to appreciate this.

Last night I stayed up to watch the end of a movie after he had gone to bed and I (for the first time in my life) decided to open his laptop. His gaming account was logged in and open and I found myself looking at his profile and transaction history. There are no words to describe how horrible and malicious I felt checking up on him and honestly, I'm even more distraught by what I found. I am ashamed and embarrassed for being so oblivious but yes, there's a lot more money moving around the betting account than I have been led to believe....in fact, about twice what I would have even considered to be a problem.

I went to bed and didn't even want to touch him, I feel sad for him if he has this problem but also, I feel quite numb.

Any advice or opinions on how I should tackle this will be greatly recieved. I have not yet said this too him, I'd rather he didn't know I went on to his laptop so if there's a way I could coax it out of him it would be better. I'd rather help him than lose him but at the same time, today, I'm not even sure who he is. Sorry if this sounds very dramatic it's just not the outcome I expected. If anything on some level I was hoping looking at his account would set my mind at ease.

So sorry to hear OP that your fears have been confirmed.

First off the bit I've highlighted above: Don't think posters here are attacking you, I think everyone here is on your side and is just trying to help you protect yourself in the long run. It's a huge shock to the system to find out that your partner of 8 years has this problem and probably doesn't sit with what you know about him.

However, it is there is black and white. I don't have direct experience of dealing with a gambling addict but I would echo what others have said, gather the evidence where you can and go to GamAnon where people with vast experience in this area can advise you.

Perhaps it would be better for now to avoid conversations about gambling with him when it comes to financial matters. You know it's going on, you need to gather information to protect yourself - and to help him if you want the relationship to survive.

You probably do need to cut back on giving him handouts, but tackle it from the point of view that you both need to start budgeting for mortgage and marriage, rather than 'i know you have a gambling problem and i'm not going to feed it'.

You probably need to spend some time thinking over what you have seen and learned in the last few days and get some help from people that know what they are doing, but it's something you need to do for both of you, but particularly yourself OP, because if it's not tackled and you get a mortgage together or get married, you will end up shouldering the debt for the rest of your life. In worst scenario you could lose everything you've worked for due to his addiction.

Look after yourself OP.

LegacyUser

another thought wrote: »

Hi OP.

Something struck me about your situation. It may not have any bearing, but it's worth noting. You mentioned that you were in an RTC and have some scarring. Don't discount the massive effect this will have had on your self-esteem.

You mention how "handsome" and "charismatic" your fiancé is and how he could have anyone he wants and to me that comes across as a genuine fear that he could leave you at any time if you kick up a fuss. On some level you may be feeling "If he leaves me, will I ever meet someone else?"

Yes....this.

I didn't want to say this, or even acknowledge it to myself but there is definitely a feeling that post accident my own stocks have plummeted. I feel like no man would find me attractive, that's not something I would ever divulge to family or friends, or to seek reassurance. It feels like a fact. I've secretly felt (selfishly maybe) like I'm lucky to have been in a solid relationship before this accident happened as nobody would find me attractive now. It all sounds pathetic, I know. In some ways I've felt guilty for expecting him to deal with the things that have happened to me. I have always seen him as perfect, even moreso when he stuck by me and although it's hard for me to completely change my perspective overnight I now thing at least on some level he has been using this to his advantage.

If I hadn't wound up with the post-accident issues, I probably would have fought the financial thing more. Up until this week I was happy to accept it, I just wanted him to appreciate me more financially. He doesn't feel I work hard, he thinks it's because I've been with my employer so long but plenty of staff are there longer than me and haven't progressed very far.

I've taken down the phone number for Gam Anon in my city and will phone them once I've left work.

For those with experience dealing with gamblers. Is it something they cannot help? Is he lying to me because he disrespects me, or can he not help himself?

If it's an addiction then surely he would prefer to not be gambling at all?

My plan - for now, unless I'm advised against by a professional is to have a formal finance meeting tonight and I will take out my bank statements and will ask him to do the same. My efforts will be with a plan to make sure he makes it to the end of the month - this will be in response to his refusal re the joint account suggested on Tuesday.

When he refuses to produce his statements, which I assume he will, I will ask him to log in to online banking. No doubt he'll have forgotten his password. I'll ask him to phone his bank and reset his online banking. I believe this is a 24 hour service although he may need to wait until after the weekend. I hope not, I don't think I can keep this in all weekend. I know I wont be my usual self.

I would like to help him through this but I don't know what's ahead. Is it possible he's not addicted? He plays every night I think, even on holiday he's played on his phone. I know, I am so stupid to believe it was just €10 a week but I was equating it to a play station and thought I was lucky he wasn't forcing me to watch football...

Help

alibab

I think when you started this thread you most certainly did not expect this outcome and you are now in shock .

Sometimes a outside perspective is what is needed and a lot of posters here very quickly regonised there was a issue and that is from very personal experiences they have been through so it's invaluable advice .

You have a lot of thinking to do but be prepared for the defensive behaviour and I would fully expect him now to try and put the blame back on you in some way and somehow make this all your fault . This is not your fault it's his problem remember this . I took loans out in my name in the past on promises of a new start etc do not go down this road .

Only you can decide if this is salvageable and weather you can get through this . My experiences were not good I won't say they were but it's your decision. I married had 2 kids and separated after 7 years and took me another 5 to get back to where I was before .

Twas Not

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

I fully intended on bowing out of this thread yesterday however on reflection a lot of posters have been exceptionally helpful and I am utterly grateful for their contributions which have alerted me to things which I can only deal with at my own pace.

I really am disheartened by the contributions dismissing my efforts to come to terms with this in a very short-space of time whilst I am openly having small discussions and trying to investigate these things whilst also dealing with my own emotional overload etc. I am trying to make good choices here so please, I would ask kindly for posters to appreciate this.

Last night I stayed up to watch the end of a movie after he had gone to bed and I (for the first time in my life) decided to open his laptop. His gaming account was logged in and open and I found myself looking at his profile and transaction history. There are no words to describe how horrible and malicious I felt checking up on him and honestly, I'm even more distraught by what I found. I am ashamed and embarrassed for being so oblivious but yes, there's a lot more money moving around the betting account than I have been led to believe....in fact, about twice what I would have even considered to be a problem.

I went to bed and didn't even want to touch him, I feel sad for him if he has this problem but also, I feel quite numb.

Any advice or opinions on how I should tackle this will be greatly recieved. I have not yet said this too him, I'd rather he didn't know I went on to his laptop so if there's a way I could coax it out of him it would be better. I'd rather help him than lose him but at the same time, today, I'm not even sure who he is. Sorry if this sounds very dramatic it's just not the outcome I expected. If anything on some level I was hoping looking at his account would set my mind at ease.

A key point to know is that the only solution is for him to quit gambling COMPLETELY !

It is no use try to cut down. It's an addiction. Part of the thrill for gamblers is to bet up to and beyond the point of losing more than they can afford.

Expect major aggression when you confront him. Anything that will deflect away from his gambling problem.

A letter to him with all your feelings and thoughts set out may be the way to go.

Obviously you will need to control all finances and accounts if you are to marry this man. That is important. He has shown that he lies and attacks if his addiction is questioned. He cannot be fully trusted again with money

Ever.

Dark Phoenix

OP you poor thing I am so sorry that it has turned out that he has been lying and does have a problem. It cannot have been at all easy for you to check his laptop. Do not beat yourself up for doing so - you only did it because he flat out refused to talk to you about money no matter how often you brought it up. I know it probably feels like you have been punched in the stomach and this must all be a big shock. Is there anyone you can talk to? When I found out what my ex had been doing I rang a friend I could trust, sat down with them and talked it out and it was a massive relief just to share the burden with someone and sometimes in talking about you acknowledge its real and its a little bit easier to deal with. Please please mind yourself now instead of minding him. Take solace in the fact that you are not married and dont have a mortgage so whats yours is yours he can;t take it from you and you can walk away from him and this mess tomorrow if you want to. It is a good thing that you have found this now before kids and marraige were in the equation.

As for what you do next I think there are other posters on here who would advise you better than I would. Contacting Gamanon is a very good idea. You need to understand a gamblers mindset and to understand how an addictive personality operates. They will lie, they will guilt trip, they will think firstly of themselves, they will try and make you think this is your fault, they will think only of the next thrill. I agree with the poster who said there is no cutting down here - he has to stop 100% - he cannot just reduce his gambling. That would be like an alcoholic only having three drinks a day its not a solution and it will escalate again. I;d also be prepared, if he does quit gambling that if he has an addictive personality it may errupt somewhere else because he has conditioned himself to thrive on a thrill and he struggles to control himself. This might come out as problems with alcohol or with drugs or even with obsession with exercise. In my case while the drugs stopped as far as I knew, but i ended up with someone who was drinking a six pack of beer a night and couldnt go out for a night out without drinking every shot he got his hands on. When he would go on the dry for a few months he would become obsessed with exercise instead. What I mean is if you do decide to stay with him (your decision) and he agrees to get help understand its more than just fixing a gambling problem its fixing a mindset. Also bear in mind that sometimes when you catch someone at something they will keep doing it but they just learn to lie better and hide it better than they did before.

As for how you tell him you can subtely bring it up, you can say nothing or you can rip off the bandage which is terrifying I know and you can ask him outright. I;d imagine his repsonse will tell you a lot. He will probably either deny it and accuse you of breaking trust by going through his stuff and making you out to be the bad guy to deflect from himself or he will break down and admit theres a problem. At the moment you know he has a problem. He may or may not know you know. You know you cannot trust him. You know he has been lying. I guess I'd say to you what more have you got to lose by challenging him on it?

Either way please mind yourself, confide in someone you trust and do not give him a penny from today onwards.

pookie82

Very sorry to hear about your discovery OP. It's rare enough on here to see a thread start on one issue only to gradually turn into something much bigger and then to have that confirmed when it wasn't even something you considered writing your first post.

I'm glad that you kept reading what people had to say, and listened enough to take action, that in itself shows both the value of threads like this (with the objective advice of strangers) and how much of a rational and capable person you are... many people reading what they simply didn't want to hear would have logged off long ago. You have shown great courage and determination to tackle this bit by bit.

First thing's first, before ANYTHING else, cut him off. No more petrol money, no more lunch money, no more discretionary spending on massive sofas of his choosing. If he goes to his mother, so be it, it might be time for her to find out where his money is really going.

I understand you don't want to admit you snooped but you were utterly driven to it. You have shown more than once in this thread that you gave him every chance to open up to you the easy way and were met with resilience and accusations of dramatics.

I would tell him what you've found, unapologetically, although the advice about speaking to Gamblers Anon first to gauge how to broach it is good advice. He will undoubtedly rail against you for invading his privacy, perhaps try to excuse or lie his way out of it, and maybe even in some twisted way insinuate you carry some of the blame ... all known tactics of someone with an addiction problem. You have the luxury now (I know that's a bad phrase given the circumstances) of spending a little time with this new knowledge yourself before confronting him.

Is there any way you could get away for a couple of days somewhere? I know you won't want to approach friends or family with this ... even an afternoon alone to clear your head and process what you have found? Once you have come to terms with it you'll be more able to confront him in a manner which will allow you to keep your calm, and believe me, you'll need to be able to, because he won't see this coming and by all accounts sounds like the type who will explode and panic and turn it all somehow back on you.

Bottom line is, you've been funding someone who has been p*ssing your hard earned cash away, while simultaneously resenting your very ability to be a source of income. There's a lot of issues to be worked through here, so first and foremost, protect your finances now by making sure he has no more access to a penny of anything you've earned.

Try not to think too far down the line either, you've had a massive shock. All sorts of thoughts might enter your head, such as can I trust anything he says, does he really love me, is my future marriage a sham, is my life as I know it over? There's no point in pondering these issues until you know more. For now, you need to concentrate on arming yourself with the full truth and get him to agree that he has a problem before you even look ahead to anything more. And remember, it might feel like your whole world is currently imploding, but THANK GOODNESS you found this out now, not a mortgage, marriage, and 2 kids down the line.

Take one step at a time.

Big Bag of Chips

Hi OP, you mightn't like what I say, but I say tell him. Tell him what you found. Tell him you had no choice but to look for yourself where his money was going because he kept turning it back on you.

I know I keep going on about my friend and her husband, but when my friend started to question him, and pushed him for answers as to why there were unpaid bills, why he wouldn't let her see bank statements etc, he started, like your bf, drip feeding little bits. She ended up having a panick attack and being brought to A&E. While she was in hospital she asked him to tell her the truth. He swore there was nothing else. She knew he was lying. She threatened him that she was leaving, their marriage was over and he had nothing else to lose now. That his only chance was to be honest about exactly how much money he owed. He told her another bit... Etc.

A month later she was still finding out about loans, money borrowed from friends etc.

You have to be straight with him. Even though he will not be straight with you at first. He will twist it. He will blame you. He will tell you that's all, there's nothing else etc.. You can guarantee he owes a lot more money to a lot more people.

This is something that cannot be tiptoed around. For too long you've allowed him to dictate the tone of your relationship. Now it's your turn.

My friend's husband threatened to leave, etc, but he never did. He knew he needed he help. He broke down after a few weeks begging for her to forgive him. Go to GamAnon. It's for people who live with a gambler in their lives. Trust me, you will learn exactly how devious the gambler cam become and you will realise that every story of the partner/wife etc is almost identical.

You are slightly out of the age bracket of my friend and her husband, and you are way out of their wage bracket, but his behaviour, excuses, and arguments with you are a mirror image of them.

You have no choice but confront him.. And please realise, things are about to get very very much worse. It is going to take a long time to recover from this. It all started about 5 years ago with my friend, and it's only in the past year things are settling down for them.

I wish you luck, you will need a lot of personal strength to tackle this, because he will try everything he can to make you and your questions go away. This thread can stay open for as long as you need it.

Big Bag of Chips

And one other thing... Find one friend to confide in. I was invaluable to my friend at the time. I could offer her no advice because I knew nothing about it... My advice would have been leave him But she was getting her advice from GamAnon.. What she got from me was an ear.

I listened. I let her cry. I let her get mad. I let her say all the things she thought that she couldn't say to him... Etc.

Please confide in 1 person.

pookie82

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

And one other thing... Find one friend to confide in. I was invaluable to my friend at the time. I could offer her no advice because I knew nothing about it... My advice would have been leave him But she was getting her advice from GamAnon.. What she got from me was an ear.

I listened. I let her cry. I let her get mad. I let her say all the things she thought that she couldn't say to him... Etc.

Please confide in 1 person.

I would echo this but try, if you think it's possible, to "pick" someone who won't judge or force opinions onto you about what they think you should do. Do you have someone in mind who might just do like BBOC did... be an ear and a comfort?

I have lots of friends but some I just wouldn't go to about something so personal, because I know certain people would be pushy about leaving him/maybe even want to get involved.

Gauge who you tell carefully, try to choose someone who you know will be the support you need but not intrusively.

Big Bag of Chips

In my friend's case I am one of only 2 people who knew what was happening. He told one of his friends.

Their families don't even know the extent... I'm not even sure their families know about GA etc, I think they just knew he was giving up the bookies.

MissFlitworth

If I were you I'd hold my counsel for the moment while I set up support systems and got advice from Gamblers Anonymous on how to approach this and I would also go back to his laptop and gather more information.

What you've seen is what can be passed off as acceptable, fun gambling. He was very careful to show it to you, little games that he played that were no concern at all, only the odd tenner here and there. My concern would be is that there might be other gambling that he has hidden from you entirely that he couldn't as easily explain to you (one of my parents is an alcoholic and for years the other parent used to wonder how they got so drunk on the 3 or 4 pints that they insisted they had when they went out, little knowing that when they went to the bar they always went as far away as possible, so they couldn't be seen and got a double short that they necked before they came back. Addicts can be very, very careful to cover their trails and set themselves up with A Very Acceptable Story. It can make you feel like you are losing your mind, genuinely like you're mentally ill because your gut tells you one thing but all that you see and are told tells you another.), look through his history for more betting sites. Screenshot and save info that you find, because he is going to get very careful when you confront him. Prepare yourself for anger and lies and for accusations of you driving him to this, over exaggerating what he's doing & being a kill joy. None of it is true and it's something that quite possibly will be flung at you.

Definitely talk to a friend and also get yourself someone to talk to who will be entirely neutral, sometimes friends and family members can be so angry on your behalf that while they are amazing to talk to they don't always give you the best advice

Neyite

He will accuse you of all sorts, try to distract you with other hurtful things like maybe telling you horrible things he says his mother /friends/ siblings thinks about you. He'll try to list your faults and failings.

Remember this: Do not listen or believe to these kind of things. Not for a second. Ever see a chase in a movie where the person throws obstacles in the path of the baddie chasing them? That is what he will do, he will throw emotional obstacles in your way to try to slow you down finding out the truth.

Dont let yourself be sidetracked by these, however hurtful they are. He is an addict who will do and say lots of things to keep his addiction minimised and hidden. Like a drug or alcohol addict.

I really think that you should speak to Gamblers Anon a good bit first before you speak to him. Contact them today if you can.

Neyite

Matteroffact wrote: »

However, he points out a lot that "It's a pity I didn't apply for your job back then, imagine what I'd be on if that's what you're getting"

To me this just means that if he had gone down the route you took he would be getting similar money if not more and I don't see how this is a put down, in fact I think it is a compliment. He is acknowledging that you are on good money and saying that he could be on good money too had he done what you did.

This by the way is BS. He would never have the self-discipline, concentration or attention to detail to do my job. I find this comment particularly offensive as he has said it so often it's almost like the big shame in his life that he never applied to my company.


Do you not think that the above statement comes across as you thinking you are better than he is and you are accusing him of thinking he is better than you ?

"Not all of us earn over a hundred grand a year"

Why read things into this statement, would this not be a common jibe about people who earn less, a common joke as it were ?

Your interpretation on the couch thing is a bit petty I think. I feel he has a right to give his opinion on which couch to buy, just like you have. Asking him was he going to sit on 20% of it was way below the belt.

The worst part is, as much as we are in love. I know if something happened at work, if I got a paycut or lost my job; He would be delighted. This is very wrong.


This is a ridiculous thing to say, of course he would not want you to lose your job or get a paycut, that is just your negativity playing up. Sorry.

I just feel he is not the right man for you OP because you resent him because he is not earning as much as you are and you want to lord it over him, instead of sharing with him. Sorry but you asked for opinions and that is what I think, something different to what everyone else thinks here I guess.

I think you didnt read the full thread, there has been massive developments.

LegacyUser

^ no offence to your post, but I think the OP has a serious amount on her plate right now. Nit picking her first post is a waste of your time, bigger issues have to come to light now anyway.

Twas Not

Matteroffact wrote: »

However, he points out a lot that "It's a pity I didn't apply for your job back then, imagine what I'd be on if that's what you're getting"

To me this just means that if he had gone down the route you took he would be getting similar money if not more and I don't see how this is a put down, in fact I think it is a compliment. He is acknowledging that you are on good money and saying that he could be on good money too had he done what you did.

This by the way is BS. He would never have the self-discipline, concentration or attention to detail to do my job. I find this comment particularly offensive as he has said it so often it's almost like the big shame in his life that he never applied to my company.


Do you not think that the above statement comes across as you thinking you are better than he is and you are accusing him of thinking he is better than you ?

"Not all of us earn over a hundred grand a year"

Why read things into this statement, would this not be a common jibe about people who earn less, a common joke as it were ?

Your interpretation on the couch thing is a bit petty I think. I feel he has a right to give his opinion on which couch to buy, just like you have. Asking him was he going to sit on 20% of it was way below the belt.

The worst part is, as much as we are in love. I know if something happened at work, if I got a paycut or lost my job; He would be delighted. This is very wrong.


This is a ridiculous thing to say, of course he would not want you to lose your job or get a paycut, that is just your negativity playing up. Sorry.

I just feel he is not the right man for you OP because you resent him because he is not earning as much as you are and you want to lord it over him, instead of sharing with him. Sorry but you asked for opinions and that is what I think, something different to what everyone else thinks here I guess.

Sorry but above is nonsense.