safely reduce body fat

Bruno26

generic2012 wrote: »

Ill be more concise for you, this is directly from my previous post, which you tried to answer -
'Don't make a statement with no rationale, such as fat doesn't make you fat, carbs are evil or whatever. Don't mention carbs at all, just the reason fat doesn't make you fat. Don't send me to a book either.'

I said on't mention carbs, I asked how can eating 3,500 calories from fat not cause someone with a daily expenditure of 2,500 calories to put on weight. Could you please answer that question, not one I didn't ask.

Read more carefully. Fat does not raise blood sugar therefore you won't get fat. Simple

Your scenario is pretty ridiculous for the average person.

generic2012

Bruno26 wrote: »

Read more carefully. Fat does not raise blood sugar therefore you won't get fat. Simple

Your scenario is pretty ridiculous for the average person.

So you can only gain fat from increases in blood sugar and/or insulin?

Bruno26

generic2012 wrote: »

So you can only gain fat from increases in blood sugar and/or insulin?

Ye that's pretty much it. People who are overweight are carb resistant in varying forms.

People are not overweight from eating too much fat and protein.

Sephya

Bruno26 wrote: »

Ye that's pretty much it. People who are overweight are carb resistant in varying forms.

People are not overweight from eating too much fat and protein.

lolz

generic2012

Have you read anything about Acylation Stimulating Protein (ASP)?

generic2012

Sephya wrote: »

lolz

sssshhhhh
We'll see where this goes!

jebuz

Bruno26 wrote: »

Carb back loading - what a pile of bull.

I really don't like when people dismiss an idea as bull because they disagree with it or it's not the way they operate. I've given my experiences and what works well for me, similarly I respect your approach and what works for you. There's no need for dismissal posts like that, hardly helpful.

Forget about the label "carb backloading" I agree it sounds a bit fad-ish but it's simply a way of timing the consumption and types of carbs after exercise when your muscles are in a depleted state, this along with an adaptation of mobilising fat over longer distances fuels me for my workouts, what's the issue?

I actually agree with a lot of your mentioned food choices and approach to eating but you're too aggressive with your opinions and can barely acknowledge others viewpoints.

Bruno26

generic2012 wrote: »

sssshhhhh
We'll see where this goes!

Yes.

Can you both show me the examples of overweight people who live on a diet of fat and protein?

generic2012

Bruno26 wrote: »

Yes.

Can you both show me the examples of overweight people who live on a diet of fat and protein?

Can you answer the question I asked you? about ASP

Bruno26

generic2012 wrote: »

Can you answer the question I asked you? about ASP

Again read carefully. I answered you. I said yes.

Please show me the overweight people who live on fat and protein?

ecoli

Bruno26 wrote: »

Please show me the overweight people who live on fat and protein?

The "average" Inuit population?

http://www.circumpolarhealthjournal.net/index.php/ijch/article/viewFile/17802/20285

generic2012

Bruno26 wrote: »

Again read carefully. I answered you. I said yes.

Please show me the overweight people who live on fat and protein?

So you know it's a hormone generated by fat that stores dietary fat as body fat? So how can you say you can't store fat as fat?

Inuits-
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10951530

Bruno26

ecoli wrote: »

The "average" Inuit population?

http://www.circumpolarhealthjournal.net/index.php/ijch/article/viewFile/17802/20285

If referring to Inuit refer to their traditional diet.



Here's a quote from Observations on the Western Eskimo and the Country they Inhabit; from Notes taken During two Years [1852-54] at Point Barrow, by Dr. John Simpson:
These people [the Inuit] are robust, muscular and active, inclining rather to spareness [leanness] than corpulence [overweight], presenting a markedly healthy appearance. The expression of the countenance is one of habitual good humor. The physical constitution of both sexes is strong. Extreme longevity is probably not unknown among them; but as they take no heed to number the years as they pass they can form no guess of their own ages.


The Inuit diet has changed.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7759744

Bruno26

generic2012 wrote: »

So you know it's a hormone generated by fat that stores dietary fat as body fat? So how can you say you can't store fat as fat?

Inuits-
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10951530

See my previous post.

Now try again to point out the people who are overweight from too much fat and protein.

generic2012

Bruno26 wrote: »

If referring to Inuit refer to their traditional diet.



Here's a quote from Observations on the Western Eskimo and the Country they Inhabit; from Notes taken During two Years [1852-54] at Point Barrow, by Dr. John Simpson:
These people [the Inuit] are robust, muscular and active, inclining rather to spareness [leanness] than corpulence [overweight], presenting a markedly healthy appearance. The expression of the countenance is one of habitual good humor. The physical constitution of both sexes is strong. Extreme longevity is probably not unknown among them; but as they take no heed to number the years as they pass they can form no guess of their own ages.


The Inuit diet has changed.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7759744

The Irish ate low fat around the 1850s and they were very very skinny. I don't see anything in that wee quote showing how much they ate? everyone here (apart from you of course) is saying that low calorie diets will cause weight loss regardless of composition. So like the Irish at the same time as your inuits, if life is tough chances are you're not going to be fat.

I don't any people that eat high fat and protein full stop. Nevermind their weight. I have a feeling you'd just say 'their diet has changed' to any I had found anyway. Tell me some sure?

What about this ASP? Are you just ignoring it or what? It stores dietary fat as fat. That is a fact. What is your response to that and how it destroys your theory?

Bruno26

jebuz wrote: »

I really don't like when people dismiss an idea as bull because they disagree with it or it's not the way they operate. I've given my experiences and what works well for me, similarly I respect your approach and what works for you. There's no need for dismissal posts like that, hardly helpful.

Forget about the label "carb backloading" I agree it sounds a bit fad-ish but it's simply a way of timing the consumption and types of carbs after exercise when your muscles are in a depleted state, this along with an adaptation of mobilising fat over longer distances fuels me for my workouts, what's the issue?

I actually agree with a lot of your mentioned food choices and approach to eating but you're too aggressive with your opinions and can barely acknowledge others viewpoints.

It's still a pile of bull. If you are hungry eat. If you are not hungry don't eat.

Bruno26

generic2012 wrote: »

The Irish ate low fat around the 1850s and they were very very skinny. I don't see anything in that wee quote showing how much they ate? everyone here (apart from you of course) is saying that low calorie diets will cause weight loss regardless of composition. So like the Irish at the same time as your inuits, if life is tough chances are you're not going to be fat.

I don't any people that eat high fat and protein full stop. Nevermind their weight. I have a feeling you'd just say 'their diet has changed' to any I had found anyway. Tell me some sure?

What about this ASP? Are you just ignoring it or what? It stores dietary fat as fat. That is a fact. What is your response to that and how it destroys your theory?

It was the famine- of course they were f**kin skinny.

ASP nothing to be concerned about. Insulin is the issue.

Again now try again and tell me all the overweight people who eat mostly fat and protein?

jebuz

Bruno26 wrote: »

It's still a pile of bull. If you are hungry eat. If you are not hungry don't eat.

Nice. Believe me if I'm hungry I eat, who said anything about denying yourself food if you are hungry? I was talking about about timing of foods to optimise performance

generic2012

Bruno26 wrote: »

It was the famine- of course they were f**kin skinny.

ASP nothing to be concerned about. Insulin is the issue.

Again now try again and tell me all the overweight people who eat mostly fat and protein?

Exactly. They struggled for food. Do you think the inuits had it handy? I told you I don't know anyone that eats HFLC nevermind what their weight is. Tell people who eat HFLC and I'll find overweight members of that population for you.

HOW CAN YOU SAY ASP IS NOTHING TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT!!!? IT STORES DIETARY FAT AS BODY FAT IN THE ABSENCE OF CARBOHYDRATES!! NOT ONLY DOES IT SHOW YOUR TALKING THROUGH YOUR HOLE, IT TOTALLY DESTROYS YOUR THESIS!? YOU'RE DELUDED!!!!

ecoli

Bruno26 wrote: »

ASP nothing to be concerned about. Insulin is the issue.

ASP can augment insulin secretion so surely it is something to be concerned about

generic2012

ecoli wrote: »

ASP can augment insulin secretion so surely it is something to be concerned about

In the absence of carbs it is important to add. You're far more likely to store fat as fat than carbs.

rocky

ASP wasn't mentioned by Taubes, so it doesn't exist.

QED.

generic2012

rocky wrote: »

ASP wasn't mentioned by Taubes, so it doesn't exist.

QED.

'And he vanished in a puff of logic'

ford2600

Bruno26 wrote: »

It's still a pile of bull. If you are hungry eat. If you are not hungry don't eat.

I eat circa 60/65% fat and train a lot and generally avoid carbs except fruit and veg, and while I didn't have or remember the name, I back load also.

I hadn't been doing it, but came across Ryan Sherlock an elite mountain biker, an he does it to aid recovery after strenuous exercise.

It may be placebo but it works!

I've've read part of reason maybe the insulin spike fires up the body's recovery process.

Bruno26

generic2012 wrote: »

Exactly. They struggled for food. Do you think the inuits had it handy? I told you I don't know anyone that eats HFLC nevermind what their weight is. Tell people who eat HFLC and I'll find overweight members of that population for you.

HOW CAN YOU SAY ASP IS NOTHING TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT!!!? IT STORES DIETARY FAT AS BODY FAT IN THE ABSENCE OF CARBOHYDRATES!! NOT ONLY DOES IT SHOW YOUR TALKING THROUGH YOUR HOLE, IT TOTALLY DESTROYS YOUR THESIS!? YOU'RE DELUDED!!!!

People aren't overweight because of ASP . Move on.

Now try again- name the people who are fat from eating mostly fat and protein?

Sephya

Bruno26 wrote: »

People aren't overweight because of ASP . Move on.

gonna have to try harder than that. explain why "People aren't overweight because of ASP"

generic2012

Bruno26 wrote: »

People aren't overweight because of ASP . Move on.

Now try again- name the people who are fat from eating mostly fat and protein?

I said I don't know any people that eat mosty fat and protein.
So I can't know any that are/aren't overweight
I then asked you to name a group of people that eat mostly fat and protein.
Then I will find you people who are overweight from eating mostly fat and protein.

Read that again so you get it this time.
(For a person who doesn't value evidence I don't know why you care so much. Ps If there is a group of people who eat mostly fat and protein and are underweight/a healthy weight I am 100% sure it would be from undereating calories, not carbs)

How can you say that? You can't just say ASP doesn't matter! It proves you wrong. It's like saying photos of the earth from space don't matter because the earth is flat. You're a deluded zealot.

ecoli

Bruno26 wrote: »

ASP nothing to be concerned about. Insulin is the issue.

ecoli wrote: »

ASP can augment insulin secretion so surely it is something to be concerned about

generic2012 wrote: »

In the absence of carbs it is important to add.

Bruno26 wrote: »

People aren't overweight because of ASP . Move on.

Care to elaborate the rationale that drew you to this conclusion (School rules apply - no marks awarded unless you show you work)

Bruno26

generic2012 wrote: »

I said I don't know any people that eat mosty fat and protein.
So I can't know any that are/aren't overweight
I then asked you to name a group of people that eat mostly fat and protein.
Then I will find you people who are overweight from eating mostly fat and protein.

Read that again so you get it this time.
(For a person who doesn't value evidence I don't know why you care so much. Ps If there is a group of people who eat mostly fat and protein and are underweight/a healthy weight I am 100% sure it would be from undereating calories, not carbs)

How can you say that? You can't just say ASP doesn't matter! It proves you wrong. It's like saying photos of the earth from space don't matter because the earth is flat. You're a deluded zealot.

You cannot name any group who got fat from high fat and protein because there never has been an overweight group who lived mostly on fat and protein.

Traditional Masai diet.

So if it's not fat or protein that makes people fat. What could it be that makes people fat?

ecoli

Bruno26 wrote: »

You cannot name any group who got fat from high fat and protein because there never has been an overweight group who loved mostly on fat and protein.

Traditional Masai diet.

So if it's not fat or protein that makes people fat. What could it be that makes people fat?

You do realise Ugali is an integral part of the Masai diet and has been over the last 50 years? Would be interesting to see your stats on obesity levels prior to this (not to mention bread and tea with a high sugar content but this is just based off anecdotal evidence from my dealings so I won't use this for the sake of argument)

generic2012

Bruno26 wrote: »

You cannot name any group who got fat from high fat and protein because there never has been an overweight group who loved mostly on fat and protein.
Traditional Masai diet.

No, as I said three times before I don't know any groups that eat high fat high protein. I said give me a group and I'd show you they'd be under eating. Go to the 4th minute of this video if you can't stand all the facts before it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnXF4qgrg5Q&list=PLsUgZnrBSuaoCJ9_m4w2QCPUk92cupt_h&index=4 - it should play in a playlist for you. There's two videos before about your inuit.

Bruno26 wrote: »

So if it's not fat or protein that makes people fat. What could it be that makes people fat?

It's calories regardless of macronutrient make up.

Now. Your take on ASP.

Bruno26

generic2012 wrote: »

No, as I said three times before I don't know any groups that eat high fat high protein. I said give me a group and I'd show you they'd be under eating. Go to the 4th minute of this video if you can't stand all the facts before it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnXF4qgrg5Q&list=PLsUgZnrBSuaoCJ9_m4w2QCPUk92cupt_h&index=4 - it should play in a playlist for you. There's two videos before about your inuit.



It's calories regardless of macronutrient make up.

Now. Your take on ASP.

Why is ASP being mentioned now. It's never mentioned when people are being advised that the only way to lose weight is by counting calories. If it's so important why is it not mentioned?

So there is no evidence of any fat people who lived on fat and protein.

When carbs were introduced to traditional hflc tribes they got fat.

So what makes people fat?

Bruno26

ecoli wrote: »

You do realise Ugali is an integral part of the Masai diet and has been over the last 50 years? Would be interesting to see your stats on obesity levels prior to this (not to mention bread and tea with a high sugar content but this is just based off anecdotal evidence from my dealings so I won't use this for the sake of argument)

I do. It's new to their diet. Refer to traditional diet.

Bruno26

ecoli wrote: »

Care to elaborate the rationale that drew you to this conclusion (School rules apply - no marks awarded unless you show you work)

Why so much mention of ASP. According to you lot it's only calories out or calories in that matters.

generic2012

Bruno26 wrote: »

Why is ASP being mentioned now. It's never mentioned when people are being advised that the only way to lose weight is by counting calories. If it's so important why is it not mentioned?

So there is no evidence of any fat people who lived on fat and protein.

When carbs were introduced to traditional hflc tribes they got fat.

So what makes people fat?

I think you could be literally insane. It's never mentioned because if you eat less calories than you expend you will lose weight. Insulin or ASP doesn't matter, it's net calories.

You say eating more calories from fat than you expend will not make you gain weight. This violates physics. You said it happens because no insulin is produced so no fat is gained. We told you about ASP because its how the body stores excess fat. It's why you're wrong.

Excess calories make people fat. It's common sense, it's not even disputed.

generic2012

Bruno26 wrote: »

Why so much mention of ASP. According to you lot it's only calories out or calories in that matters.

It is, but according to you calories in doesn't matter. You say that dietary fat isn't stored as fat I was just show the mechanism by which the body stores dietary fat as body fat.

But you said you know about ASP so I'm still left asking you why it doesn't matter as you've been saying.

generic2012

Bruno26 wrote: »

I do. It's new to their diet. Refer to traditional diet.

Did you watch that video I linked?

Sephya

saying carbs make you fat and fat doesnt is ridiculous. carbs are a fuel source which the body prefers to burn rather than store as converting carbs to fat is inefficient. dietary fat on the other hand is already in the chemical form for storage. however you like to believe that the body will convert carbs to fat in order to store and at the same time burn dietary fat as a fuel instead!

ecoli

Bruno26 wrote: »

I do. It's new to their diet. Refer to traditional diet.

Every pre industrial revolution diet will show decreased obesity levels simply because less food available and labour intense processes meant that energy expenditure levels were much higher in relation to readily available foods.

You can't single out carbs here without taking other factors into account

ecoli

Bruno26 wrote: »

Why so much mention of ASP. According to you lot it's only calories out or calories in that matters.

It was brought up because you reckon that Insulin was the issue as opposed to ASP despite there being a correlation between the two. I was trying to follow your thought pattern?

rocky

Bruno26 wrote: »

People aren't overweight because of ASP . Move on.

Now try again- name the people who are fat from eating mostly fat and protein?

Jimmy Moore

Bruno26

Sephya wrote: »

saying carbs make you fat and fat doesnt is ridiculous. carbs are a fuel source which the body prefers to burn rather than store as converting carbs to fat is inefficient. dietary fat on the other hand is already in the chemical form for storage. however you like to believe that the body will convert carbs to fat in order to store and at the same time burn dietary fat as a fuel instead!

Carbs make you fat. Fat doesn't.

It's really straight forward.

Sephya

Bruno26 wrote: »

Carbs make you fat. Fat doesn't.

It's really straight forward.

tell that to the 1.7 billion asians living on rice. clearly obese.

Bruno26

rocky wrote: »

Jimmy Moore

The keto guy who lost all the weight by eating hflc ?

generic2012

Bruno26 wrote: »

Carbs make you fat. Fat doesn't.

It's really straight forward.

But they don't? I asked a few posts ago why eating fat doesn't make you fat.

You said because carbs make you fat. Of course that was an answer to a question I didn't ask (and a wrong answer too).

So eventually you gave a concrete statement about a physiological process, you said fat doesn't make you fat because it doesn't raise blood sugar or insulin and your body can't store the dietary fat. You said that. That was how you said you can eat fat ad lib and not gain weight, because you can't store fat in the absence of carbs.

ASP is how the body stores dietary fat as body fat. That of course means you can store dietary fat as body fat. That also means you're wrong.

So I'll give you another shot.

How can you eat excess fat and not gain weight?

Again, no directions to books, if you read it in a book just tell us the part that told you how it works. No 'it just does', and no mention of carbs, this is about you saying you cant store fat as fat.

Bruno26

Sephya wrote: »

tell that to the 1.7 billion asians living on rice. clearly obese.

As I've always said I'm talking about your average overweight person.

Some people are carb resistant some are carb tolerant. The overweight people are that way because they are carb resistant and eat too many carbs.

ford2600

@Bruno I know you mean well and genuinely believe what you are posting, but you can't apply a diet that has worked for you to an entire population. I doesn't suit a lot of people. It isn't a silver bullet.

Peter Attia is well know in in the HFLC world, as a medical doctor and elite endurance sea swimmer. Despite swimming 4-5hrs daily he was balloning in weight following a food pyrimad type diet. He was well on his way to being diabetic. By going HFLC his health improved remarkably, lost fat etc etc.

Attia is really bright and a relentless self experimenter who has gained as much as you from HFLC. What is his stance on obesity? He doesn't have an answer, but he is asking questions, loads of really interesting questions.

He is sitting down with guys, from universities all over USA with a huge variance in their outlook on obesity, asking question doing research and trying to solve what is a public health crisis. He is not stuck with some "new" dogma but looking for answers with people who think he is nuts.

Palmitoleic Acid is one interseting thing I've come across as a potential very early marker for the group of people that a high carb diet doen't suit. Seemingly it can be a marker way before insulin resistance is a problem. Might be a rabbit hole but we will never know unless we start asking questions.

On the Masai, I spent a week with them also. They are very lean. In Tanzania/Kenya they are a wealthy tribe because of their cattle, by our standards they are dirt poor and don't eat much of anything.

The diet staple in Tanzania is the banana, about 30 odd varieties. They use bananas for everything, beer, meat stew, breakfast etc etc. They also have lots of maize. Again they are not fat either

Bruno26

generic2012 wrote: »

But they don't? I asked a few posts ago why eating fat doesn't make you fat.

You said because carbs make you fat. Of course that was an answer to a question I didn't ask (and a wrong answer too).

So eventually you gave a concrete statement about a physiological process, you said fat doesn't make you fat because it doesn't raise blood sugar or insulin and your body can't store the dietary fat. You said that. That was how you said you can eat fat ad lib and not gain weight, because you can't store fat in the absence of carbs.

ASP is how the body stores dietary fat as body fat. That of course means you can store dietary fat as body fat. That also means you're wrong.

So I'll give you another shot.

How can you eat excess fat and not gain weight?

Again, no directions to books, if you read it in a book just tell us the part that told you how it works. No 'it just does', and no mention of carbs, this is about you saying you cant store fat as fat.

So there's no evidence of any group of people getting fat from eating mostly fat and protein.

Forget about your calories and your hormones.

Solution: Limit the carb intake in overweight people. Eat lots more fat.

Result: Weight issues solved.

generic2012

Bruno26 wrote: »

So there's no evidence of any group of people getting fat from eating mostly fat and protein.

Forget about your calories and your hormones.

Solution: Limit the carb intake in overweight people. Eat lots more fat.

Result: Weight issues solved.

Are you just ignoring the question again?

How come eating fat doesn't make you fat?

In regards to hormones you're the one who brought up insulin. (Insulin is a hormone btw)

How come eating fat doesn't make you fat?

rocky

Bruno26 wrote: »

The keto guy who lost all the weight by eating hflc ?

He initially lost the weight on a low fat diet, since then he's yo-yo ing weight wise, but eating HFLC all the time. How come he cannot lose the weight again? Espeially since he's involved in the 'scene'. Maybe he's eating too much? I dunno, just throwing it out there...