safely reduce body fat

ecoli

Bruno26 wrote: »

I've never eaten more than two steaks in a day. Lots of butter and veg with the steak.

You can eat as much fat as you want not as much protein as you want though.

The idea is eat as much fat and protein as you want. Try it- you'll soon be satiated and satisfied.

So what your saying is you feel satisfied for long - i.e you need to eat less?

This is a very different statement that carbs make you fat.

SeaDaily

Bruno26 wrote: »

A calorie is not a calorie as we've been told for so long.

And you know this how? Because of anecdotal evidence since you have been able to go from way overweight to average bodyweight? A truly fantastic achievement, well done, continue to make unfounded ridiculous claims at will.

Bruno26

SeaDaily wrote: »

And you know this how? Because of anecdotal evidence since you have been able to go from way overweight to average bodyweight? A truly fantastic achievement, well done, continue to make unfounded ridiculous claims at will.

Enjoy! And wake up a bit.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/well/2014/05/09/fed-up-asks-are-all-calories-equal/

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/2759564/

SeaDaily

Bruno26 wrote: »

Enjoy! And wake up a bit.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/well/2014/05/09/fed-up-asks-are-all-calories-equal/

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/2759564/

Hahaha "wake up a bit". Thanks for those links, one of which is to the Huffington post.... If you want I can link you countless studies showing that eating in a calorie deficit allows you to lose weight?

"wake up a bit". Actually can't get over that. Such unfounded arrogance and ignorance rolled into one.

Bruno26

ecoli wrote: »

So what your saying is you feel satisfied for long - i.e you need to eat less?

This is a very different statement that carbs make you fat.

You don't eat less. You just limit carbs. You will feel satisfied for longer than if you had a carb heavy meal.

ecoli

Bruno26 wrote: »

You don't eat less. You just limit carbs. You will feel satisfied for longer than if you had a carb heavy meal.

So if you feel satisfied for longer the by product is you don't eat as often?

(I am doing my best to actually help you realise that their is an element of common sense as to why your approach may work despite your fantastical claims)

Alf Veedersane

So...word on the street is the OP has stopped caring. He had a cake hangover as we speak.

Bruno26

SeaDaily wrote: »

Hahaha "wake up a bit". Thanks for those links, one of which is to the Huffington post.... If you want I can link you countless studies showing that eating in a calorie deficit allows you to lose weight?

"wake up a bit". Actually can't get over that. Such unfounded arrogance and ignorance rolled into one.

Why would I want them. I know a calorie deficit (starving oneself / living on a diet / depriving yourself) allows you to lose weight. No argument there

Will 3000 calories of sweets have the same effect as 3000 calories of fish and green veg on weight / fat?

Believing a calorie is a calorie is ignorant.

SeaDaily

Bruno26 wrote: »

Why would I want them. I know a calorie deficit (starving oneself / living on a diet / depriving yourself) allows you to lose weight. No argument there

Well if you knew this then why did you say that eating 4000 calories composed only of fats and protein would allow you to lose weight? It wouldn't and if you believe it would you are wrong.

Bruno26

SeaDaily wrote: »

Well if you knew this then why did you say that eating 4000 calories composed only of fats and protein would allow you to lose weight? It wouldn't and if you believe it would you are wrong.

Avoid the carbs and calories are not important for weight loss. Now answer the question I posed?

SeaDaily

Bruno26 wrote: »

calories are not important for weight loss.

I won't further indulge your idiocy I'm afraid. What you have said here is just beyond stupid. On to the ignore list you go.

Bruno26

SeaDaily wrote: »

I won't further indulge your idiocy I'm afraid. What you have said here is just beyond stupid. On to the ignore list you go.

Taken out of context. Quote the full sentence to make sense. Vested interest perhaps?

Ignorance is bliss. Enjoy counting calories forever.

Before you go answer the question- will 3000 calories of sweets have the same effect as 3000 calories of fish and green veg on weight / fat loss?

Bruno26

http://time.com/2988142/you-asked-are-all-calories-created-equal/

Mr.Fun

Bruno the above article proves your point perfectly. Case closed

!RAY

Thanks sorry not been on for a while. When you are cutting you increase protein ? I know its a big ask but what is to your general intake when cutting . cheers

MaceFace wrote: »

To the OP, my advise, after spending years following various plans and doing a lot (and I mean a lot) of reading on the wider subject.

The basics are eat what you want as long as your calorie intake is under or at the level you need for your desired weight loss.
The calories need to contain a certain amount of protein - everyone has their opinion. Mine would be 1g/lb LBM on a cut, maybe higher.
Also needs to contain fats. I don't know if anyone really knows how much fat is absolutely necessary as for too long there was controversy about fat and the common thinking was that it was bad for you. Personally, on a cut, I use anywhere from 1.2g/lb - 2g/lb of bodyweight
Don't need Carbs - ever.

First two are opinion, third is fact.

The longer version is what there is constant arguing about here - how much carbs should one take.
Where Bruno gets a magic 150g number from, I have no idea. I don't understand this "magic" number. There was a time when I ate a low carb (<20g/day) diet and put on weight, so it completely flies in the face of the facts that Bruno puts out.
Maybe for him, 150g/day has worked, but I don't see how that can apply to a general population.

Following a low carb diet (<50g/day generally speaking) should put you into ketosis and your body will look to fat as the primary energy source. I went 3 months with <20g/day of carbs without losing any strength or cardio impact - I never had problems doing 45 mins of cardio. People who never tried keto did not understand how I could do this, but I did. So, carbs are not required, but are difficult to avoid. Problem with a high carb diet though is the blood sugar spikes which cause hunger when they come back down. Protein and fats will keep you satisfied for longer without the spikes.

So, keeping this all very basic, which is all you can do in a forum like this, my recommendation would be to make a plan, write it down - how many calories/protein/fat/carbs you want to consume in a day for your goals. Measure and track everything. Follow religiously and wait.

The other piece of advise I would give is how low your calorie intake should be. Getting to anywhere near 10% bf is going to be very hard. When I cut, I tend to use a deficit of 29 calories/day per lb fat. So, I work out how much fat I am carrying, multiply by 29 and that's my deficit. Anything more risks losing lbm.

!RAY

Thanks Hanley I am strength training I get the sleep and eat about 3-4 meals a day. I got some pt sessions which where great. I trained to the limits but one strange thing I notice that the next day I have fully recovered to tenderness or anything. Cheers

Hanley wrote: »

Does the OP eat at least 3 meals per day consistently?

Does he/she sleep 8 hours per night, minimum?

Do their meals look something like - 2 palm sized portions of protein, 2 handfuls of veg, a cupped handful of starchy carbs on training days and 2 thumb sized portions of fat?

Are they getting it at least 80% right?

Are they strength training?

Cos otherwise you're all majoring in the minors.

Mellor

Bruno26 wrote: »

Ignorance is bliss. Enjoy counting calories forever.

Before you go answer the question- will 3000 calories of sweets have the same effect as 3000 calories of fish and green veg on weight / fat loss?

What do you mean by counting cals for life? If your goals are weight loss, Once you get a grip on what portions should be, and what good quality foods are, you just eat like normal everyday.

The only time I actively count my calories, is if I'm trying to hit specific targets for the day when bulking. It's pretty easy to track, the only other option is to eat a rough surplus.

How's your diet now Bruno? When you listed it a few weeks ago there was still plenty of carbs in it.

Bruno26

Mellor wrote: »

What do you mean by counting cals for life? If your goals are weight loss, Once you get a grip on what portions should be, and what good quality foods are, you just eat like normal everyday.

The only time I actively count my calories, is if I'm trying to hit specific targets for the day when bulking. It's pretty easy to track, the only other option is to eat a rough surplus.

How's your diet now Bruno? When you listed it a few weeks ago there was still plenty of carbs in it.

Read the context as to why it was said. I was responding to someone who believes all calories no matter what foods they are from have the same affect on weight loss.

I'm talking about a person who struggles with weight and who believes counting calories is the only to lose weight .

You pick your portions. What happens when you're still hungry ? You have to deprive yourself on food.

Was there? Which foods?

Mellor

Bruno26 wrote: »

Read the context as to why it was said. I was responding to someone who believes all calories no matter what foods they are from have the same affect on weight loss

Measured at consumption, they aren't equal because different macronutrients have different thermic effects, ie the energy used to process foods. But the difference is a minor part if the overall picture. And in reality, the difference are largely cancelled out by a balanced diet.

I'm talking about a person who struggles with weight and who believes counting calories is the only to lose weight.

The only way to lose weight is to consume less than you expend.
There are numerous ways to achieve that.

You pick your portions. What happens when you're still hungry ? You have to deprive yourself on food.

If you are eating good quality, real foods (like I said) you won't be hungry.
Eating a balanced diet based on real food, means you are unlikely to overeat either.

If somebody is eating crap and still hungry, they wouldn't be meeting those conditions,
Similarly, if somebody was eating a fat based diet, but eating too much (for example snacking on nuts all day can blow your intake). They wouldn't be eating the portion size requirement.

Those points should be obvious

Was there? Which foods?

I can't say I remember specifics. I'd be a bit strange if I could tbh.
But it was a similar thread to this, you were championing a ketogenic diet. Then you posted a typical day/intake, and I pointed out that carbs were probably too high for ketosis.
There's nothing wrong with some carbs of course, it's just bizarre given your zealous anti-carb posting.

Bruno26

Mellor wrote: »

Measured at consumption, they aren't equal because different macronutrients have different thermic effects, ie the energy used to process foods. But the difference is a minor part if the overall picture. And in reality, the difference are largely cancelled out by a balanced diet.


The only way to lose weight is to consume less than you expend.
There are numerous ways to achieve that.


If you are eating good quality, real foods (like I said) you won't be hungry.
Eating a balanced diet based on real food, means you are unlikely to overeat either.

If somebody is eating crap and still hungry, they wouldn't be meeting those conditions,
Similarly, if somebody was eating a fat based diet, but eating too much (for example snacking on nuts all day can blow your intake). They wouldn't be eating the portion size requirement.

Those points should be obvious


I can't say I remember specifics. I'd be a bit strange if I could tbh.
But it was a similar thread to this, you were championing a ketogenic diet. Then you posted a typical day/intake, and I pointed out that carbs were probably too high for ketosis.
There's nothing wrong with some carbs of course, it's just bizarre given your zealous anti-carb posting.

You can lose fat eating as much as you want of the right foods so long as carbs are limited. There is no need to count calories if you choose this method.

The idea of a balanced diet here usually means a plate half filled with carbs which causes a person to be hungry soon after eating.


As far as I can remember I was asked about ketosis but wasn't championing it even though it's perfectly fine. I also never said I was trying for ketosis when I listed the foods I eat.

I'm not anti-carb but would be against sugar and grains (modern production) in particular wheat.

Mellor

Bruno26 wrote: »

You can lose fat eating as much as you want of the right foods so long as carbs are limited. There is no need to count calories if you choose this method.

As much as you want? Don't be stupid. You can gain weight on limited carbs too.
For example, people who eat a low carb diet and are also bulking.
If what you are saying was true, they wouldn't be able to do that.

Now, if you said, following a reduced carb, high protein, high fat diet, you are less likely to overeat due to the satiety of protein and fat. Few would disagree.
But, you don't say that. You jump to ridiculous extremes filled with hyperbole

The idea of a balanced diet here usually means a plate half filled with carbs which causes a person to be hungry soon after eating.

Not its not. Most people here advocate increasing fat and protein, and avoid the carb centric meals of a typical person.

As far as I can remember I was asked about ketosis but wasn't championing it even though it's perfectly fine. I also never said I was trying for ketosis when I listed the foods I eat.

No, you weren't asked about ketosis, you kept going on about it without being ask. Basically saying its the best way to eat. And painting carbs as the devil. Hence the irony of not actually be eating a keto diet.

I'm not anti-carb but would be against sugar and grains (modern production) in particular wheat.

I would also be against sugar and wheat.
I also, eat a high fat and high protein diet.
I've probably gone through a similar weight loss as yourself.
Our diets, in reality are probably very similar.

Yet, I'm not making hyperbolic claims about food intake. The only reason I can think why, if because I've had more time process the info . Maybe you don't realise the way your preaching sounds like you are vilifying carbs. I don;t believe you actually eat different to the majority of posters here either.

Bruno26

Mellor wrote: »

As much as you want? Don't be stupid. You can gain weight on limited carbs too.
For example, people who eat a low carb diet and are also bulking.
If what you are saying was true, they wouldn't be able to do that.

Now, if you said, following a reduced carb, high protein, high fat diet, you are less likely to overeat due to the satiety of protein and fat. Few would disagree.
But, you don't say that. You jump to ridiculous extremes filled with hyperbole


Not its not. Most people here advocate increasing fat and protein, and avoid the carb centric meals of a typical person.


No, you weren't asked about ketosis, you kept going on about it without being ask. Basically saying its the best way to eat. And painting carbs as the devil. Hence the irony of not actually be eating a keto diet.


I would also be against sugar and wheat.
I also, eat a high fat and high protein diet.
I've probably gone through a similar weight loss as yourself.
Our diets, in reality are probably very similar.

Yet, I'm not making hyperbolic claims about food intake. The only reason I can think why, if because I've had more time process the info . Maybe you don't realise the way your preaching sounds like you are vilifying carbs. I don;t believe you actually eat different to the majority of posters here either.

Once again I am talking about an overweight person. I'm not taking about someone bulking.

Yes eat as much as you want but you will stop when satisfied therefore you don't overeat. You just don't count portion, you eat and stop when full. It's not stupid. If you read more carefully you'd realise this is what I've been saying.

Mellor

Bruno26 wrote: »

Once again I am talking about an overweight person. I'm not taking about someone bulking.

How does it make a difference. How does your body know what the goal is? It doesn't.
What if its an overweight person bulking (sporting reasons).
You repeatedly said that it is impossible to gain weight on a high fat diet even if you overeat.

The bulking goal scenario, proves that is not true.

Yes eat as much as you want but you will stop when satisfied therefore you don't overeat. You just don't count portion, you eat and stop when full. It's not stupid. If you read more carefully you'd realise this is what I've been saying.

That's not what you said. Particularly the part about stopping eating.

Which is why I said;

Mellor wrote: »

Now, if you said, following a reduced carb, high protein, high fat diet, you are less likely to overeat due to the satiety of protein and fat. Few would disagree.
But, you don't say that. You jump to ridiculous extremes filled with hyperbole

At times you mentioned the satiety of protein and fat. Which is correct and sensible,. But you cancel that out with nonsense about carbs being the only factor and fat can't cause weight gain. Sim

papu

Bruno26 wrote: »

Once again I am talking about an overweight person. I'm not taking about someone bulking.

Yes eat as much as you want but you will stop when satisfied therefore you don't overeat. You just don't count portion, you eat and stop when full. It's not stupid. If you read more carefully you'd realise this is what I've been saying.

A habitual overeater , and portion mismanager will overeat in both occasions .

Bruno26

papu wrote: »

A habitual overeater , and portion mismanager will overeat in both occasions .

They won't if the diet is based around real food and limited carbs.

Bruno26

Mellor wrote: »

How does it make a difference. How does your body know what the goal is? It doesn't.
What if its an overweight person bulking (sporting reasons).
You repeatedly said that it is impossible to gain weight on a high fat diet even if you overeat.

The bulking goal scenario, proves that is not true.


That's not what you said. Particularly the part about stopping eating.

Which is why I said;


At times you mentioned the satiety of protein and fat. Which is correct and sensible,. But you cancel that out with nonsense about carbs being the only factor and fat can't cause weight gain. Sim

How many times do I need to say it but you don't overeat on high fat diet. You stop when you are satiated. That's what happens when you eat this way. It's a complete change in the way if eating. People overeat because they eat too many carbs.

Fat does not make people fat. Processed food, Sugar and grains make people fat- nothing else.

Theresalwaysone

I could definitely overeat on nuts and not feel satisfied.

Give me a big bag of cashews and watch me get fat.

Mellor

Bruno26 wrote: »

How many times do I need to say it but you don't overeat on high fat diet. You stop when you are satiated. That's what happens when you eat this way. It's a complete change in the way if eating. People overeat because they eat too many carbs.

Fat does not make people fat. Processed food, Sugar and grains make people fat- nothing else.

See, this underestimation of the gluttony of some people is where you are going wrong. A lot if people will stop when they are full. Especially if they are trying to lose weight.
But many overweight people has no problem eating well past satiety. How can you not grasp this.

So we've established that if you stop eating when you are full, you won't gain weight.
But what do you think will happen if somebody does eat more? Let's say that are a glutton, or simply don't have a satiety reflex.

Essien

Low carb cheesecake exists. Trust me, I'd overeat the fuck out of that, no problem.

Bruno26

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

I could definitely overeat on nuts and not feel satisfied.

Give me a big bag of cashews and watch me get fat.

If you want a feed of nuts then eat macadamia nuts. Cashews higher in carbs. Other nuts should be eaten in moderation. If you are overeating nuts then there is something seriously wrong with your diet.

Alf Veedersane

Bruno26 wrote: »

If you want a feed of nuts then eat macadamia nuts. Cashews higher in carbs. Other nuts should be eaten in moderation. If you are overeating nuts then there is something seriously wrong with your diet.

Caveat #549.

Bruno26

Mellor wrote: »

See, this underestimation of the gluttony of some people is where you are going wrong. A lot if people will stop when they are full. Especially if they are trying to lose weight.
But many overweight people has no problem eating well past satiety. How can you not grasp this.

So we've established that if you stop eating when you are full, you won't gain weight.
But what do you think will happen if somebody does eat more? Let's say that are a glutton, or simply don't have a satiety reflex.

Those overweight people eat too many carbs. If they were not eating so many carbs they would not be overweight.

Theresalwaysone

Pretty sure I could overeat the crap out of bacon too.

And peanut butter.

Jesus. The thoughts.

Hook it to my veins.

ford2600

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

Pretty sure I could overeat the crap out of bacon too.

And peanut butter.

Jesus. The thoughts.

Hook it to my veins.

I do a 2,500 calorie 4 egg omelette with chorizo and bacon, and loads of cheese, butter, coconut and olive oil.

You'll be happy and fat!

Bruno26

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

Pretty sure I could overeat the crap out of bacon too.

And peanut butter.

Jesus. The thoughts.

Hook it to my veins.

Peanut butter is a legume, not a nut. To be avoided.

Again surely you'd be eating bacon with something else so you wouldn't be overrating it.

Theresalwaysone

Bruno26 wrote: »

Peanut butter is a legume, not a nut. To be avoided.

Again surely you'd be eating bacon with something else so you wouldn't be overrating it.

But you said as long as its high fat I wouldn't overeat? Regardless of whethers its a legume, a nut or whatever else.

Ok so I eat it with eggs. Could absolutely still overconsume calories of eggs and bacon.

Theresalwaysone

Could also overeat Salmon.

Essien

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

But you said as long as its high fat I wouldn't overeat?

I think Alf is keeping track of the backtracking caveats. I'm not sure what number we're on now.

Bruno26

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

But you said as long as its high fat I wouldn't overeat? Regardless of whethers its a legume, a nut or whatever else.

Ok so I eat it with eggs. Could absolutely still overconsume calories of eggs and bacon.

I've listed specific foods to base your eating around. I've always made that clear. I've always said avoid peanut butter. You can check back my posts for the specific foods. It would fit in with the caveats!

Bruno26

Essien wrote: »

I think Alf is keeping track of the backtracking caveats. I'm not sure what number we're on now.

Do you know what you're talking about? I've always listed the specific foods to be eaten and to be avoided.

Bruno26

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

Could also overeat Salmon.

No you couldn't. Anyway who eats salmon on its own apart from the Inuits (traditional diet)?

Bruno26

ford2600 wrote: »

I do a 2,500 calorie 4 egg omelette with chorizo and bacon, and loads of cheese, butter, coconut and olive oil.

You'll be happy and fat!

You'd be happy and satiated for a long time but you wouldn't get fat. You'd never get fat eating that along with eating the right foods.

mdolly123

Apart from avoiding bread, fruit rice etc...fasting a couple of days works. Don't have to starve yourself just avoid eating until evening if you can or stopping eating about 5pm until noon the following day, works for me

Theresalwaysone

I am 5'8'', I don’t do any exercise and weigh 95kg.
I have a BMR of about 2000 calories. Ill add on 500 for regular day to day stuff.
So I need 2500 calories to stay how I am.

You are telling me I couldn’t consume this on a daily basis?:

Breakfast:
3 Eggs scrambled. (approx. 220 cals 15g Fat 18g Protein
6 Slices Bacon. (approx. 300cals, 12g Fat, 25g protein)

Snack:
4 spoons of Almond butter. Approx 80g. (Approx 500 cals, 6g Carb 43g Fat 22g Protein)

Lunch:
2 Salmon Darnes.(approx. 430cals 0g Carb, 29g Fat, 42g protein) 2 poached eggs. (approx. 150cals 0 Carb, 10g Fat, 12g Protein) Broccoli and nut salad (approx. 150cals).

Snack:
A bag of Cashew nuts (100g). ( approx. 600cals 18g Carb, 48g Fat, 18g Protein)

Dinner:
Half roast chicken (500cals 0g Carb,18g fat, 70g protein) and vegetable and avocado salad (150cals 15g carbs,38g fat 10g protein).

Snack:
250g Greek Yoghurt with two scoops whey protein. (approx. 550 cals 15g carbs, 20g fat, 50g protein)

Totals:
Cals 3550
Fat 233g
Protein 267g
Carbs 59g

What will the extra 1000 calories do?
Where will it go?

Alf Veedersane

Bruno26 wrote: »

Anyway who eats salmon on its own apart from the Inuits (traditional diet)?

Drain the Atlantic, bring me it's bounty and I'll show you.

Bruno26

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

I am 5'8'', I don’t do any exercise and weigh 95kg.
I have a BMR of about 2000 calories. Ill add on 500 for regular day to day stuff.
So I need 2500 calories to stay how I am.

You are telling me I couldn’t consume this on a daily basis?:

Breakfast:
3 Eggs scrambled. (approx. 220 cals 15g Fat 18g Protein
6 Slices Bacon. (approx. 300cals, 12g Fat, 25g protein)

Snack:
4 spoons of Almond butter. Approx 80g. (Approx 500 cals, 6g Carb 43g Fat 22g Protein)

Lunch:
2 Salmon Darnes.(approx. 430cals 0g Carb, 29g Fat, 42g protein) 2 poached eggs. (approx. 150cals 0 Carb, 10g Fat, 12g Protein) Broccoli and nut salad (approx. 150cals).

Snack:
A bag of Cashew nuts (100g). ( approx. 600cals 18g Carb, 48g Fat, 18g Protein)

Dinner:
Half roast chicken (500cals 0g Carb,18g fat, 70g protein) and vegetable and avocado salad (150cals 15g carbs,38g fat 10g protein).

Snack:
250g Greek Yoghurt with two scoops whey protein. (approx. 550 cals 15g carbs, 20g fat, 50g protein)

Totals:
Cals 3550
Fat 233g
Protein 267g
Carbs 59g

What will the extra 1000 calories do?
Where will it go?

I'm sure you could. Your body will adapt. You won't get fat (good calories mostly from real food sources) but I'd avoid all the nuts and whey. I'd replace them with butter, cheese, cream, coconut oil, macadamia nuts etc.. Ideally include the above at meal time . You shouldn't need to snack.

Theresalwaysone

My body will adapt?

What will that adaptation be?

Alf Veedersane

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

What will that adaptation be?

Mindblowing.

Zillah

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

My body will adapt?

What will that adaptation be?

Against the laws of physics, apparently.

Bruno26

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

My body will adapt?

What will that adaptation be?

Fat adapted. See Sam Feltham on YouTube or watch cereal killers. You'll be shocked.