J4/5 (Social Rugby) Season 2014/2015

salmocab

It is a mess but there can be other reasons for lads dropping down levels, if a guy couldn't do sundays and loses his place in the firsts completely then its reasonable to drop to say the thirds which could in some clubs mean going from AIL to div 7/8. The real problem is the attitude of clubs and more often coaches to bending the rules are probably more importantly the spirit of the rules.

cloneslad

So this explains why the Clontarf firsts won't even let me train with them....I've played too many metro division 10 games

.ak

cloneslad wrote: »

So this explains why the Clontarf firsts won't even let me train with them....I've played too many metro division 10 games

That and your unorthodox method of stopping a game.

ArmchairQB

gaius c wrote: »

Trust me, it's not the case in the situation I'm referring to.

And then you have teams failing to submit teamsheets electronically so nobody can keep track of what they are up to.

We're going to have to move to player ID cards with photos to stamp out the bangers unfortunately.

That is a clear breach of the rules if team sheets are not being submitted results are null and void one call to the branch from your hon sec should sort that out. A referee should not start a game without a copy of a teamsheet printed from sports manager

The Lost Sheep

ArmchairQB wrote: »

That is a clear breach of the rules if team sheets are not being submitted results are null and void one call to the branch from your hon sec should sort that out. A referee should not start a game without a copy of a teamsheet printed from sports manager

Team sheets not a referees problem. A significant number of referees will start a game if one team doesn't have a team sheet in correct order and its then up to branch to decide what will happen as a result of team sheet with no player id numbers, or a handwritten team sheet etc

GavMan

A player who has say, 2 or more starts in the AIL should not be allowed play below Div2

cloneslad

.ak wrote: »

That and your unorthodox method of stopping a game.

Ending a game!!

The Lost Sheep

GavMan wrote: »

A player who has say, 2 or more starts in the AIL should not be allowed play below Div2

What if their 2nd team is in metro division 3 or 4 which is the case for several clubs in the AIL. A measure like that isn't feasible.

stephen_n

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

Realistically the only way to do it is by team, so an AIL player can drop down to their 2nd team regardless of the division, but no lower. And so on so forth.

This^^

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

That's very hard on players and circumstances behind why a player is playing at a certain level below what they have played. Comeback from Long term injury etc

Dropping 6 divisions is not necessary no matter what and if a player has played in the current season at AIL, it's not that long term an injury.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

What if their 2nd team is in metro division 3 or 4 which is the case for several clubs in the AIL. A measure like that isn't feasible.

It could easily be legislated for in the small number of cases that would effect, as in you can't drop more than one team below your highest team your club i.e if your J2/J3's are your seconds, that's as far as you can go. Not that difficult to monitor.

jamesbondings

cloneslad wrote: »

So this explains why the Clontarf firsts won't even let me train with them....I've played too many metro division 10 games

I think you will find if you assk the head coach there isnt a problem......
Try do preseason with them nightmare!!

gaius c

jamesbondings wrote: »

I think you will find if you assk the head coach there isnt a problem......
Try do preseason with them nightmare!!

Fit lads would be okay in the warmup until it comes to the first contact bit. I got broken ribs in my very first ever adult ruck!

jamesbondings

i did 2 preseasons with them and a few training sessions before, and they dont go easy in training but i was never fit so i was always vomitting during the contact hahahaha

i dont know if other clubs are like that but i was playinn at j3 level at the time and one message on fb or text to see if you were able to go to firsts training and no problem was always the answer!

The Lost Sheep

stephen_n wrote: »

Dropping 6 divisions is not necessary no matter what and if a player has played in the current season at AIL, it's not that long term an injury.

If you have 3 maybe 4 teams and an AIL/2nds player is out for a while through injury or whatever and needs a game within reason they should and can play 4ths and circumstances like that have and will be let happen by regradings committee.

It could easily be legislated for in the small number of cases that would effect, as in you can't drop more than one team below your highest team your club i.e if your J2/J3's are your seconds, that's as far as you can go. Not that difficult to monitor.

Dropping just one team isnt right. What of guys who are tried at a higher level just say j2 having played all rugby before at j4 and then are "found out" should they then be ineligible because they play some j2?

GavMan

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

What if their 2nd team is in metro division 3 or 4 which is the case for several clubs in the AIL. A measure like that isn't feasible.

How many of those are there? I can only think of Skerries.

As has been mentioned above, some flexibility like, you can't play below Div 2 if you have started 2 or more AIL games or play in a team lower than your 2nd grade team where the 2nd grade team plays below Metro Div 2

stephen_n

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

If you have 3 maybe 4 teams and an AIL/2nds player is out for a while through injury or whatever and needs a game within reason they should and can play 4ths and circumstances like that have and will be let happen by regradings committee.
Dropping just one team isnt right. What of guys who are tried at a higher level just say j2 having played all rugby before at j4 and then are "found out" should they then be ineligible because they play some j2?

In those extreme and RARE cases, there should be an appeals process but you can't make laws based on a set of very rare occurrences, was alot easier when senior teams had to field and all levels , with no gaps.

Guy:Incognito

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The competition regulations state If a player has started 6 games or more at a higher level he must be regraded before he can play at a lower level. Its up to the re-grading committee to decide if a player can move down levels or not.

Started or played in?

The Lost Sheep

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Started or played in?

Started.
http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/domestic/clubs/competition_regulations.php

Guy:Incognito

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Started.
http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/domestic/clubs/competition_regulations.php

That makes the rule even worse so. You could have a guy that plays 3 quarters of every ail game playing every game for a team way down the ladder.

The Lost Sheep

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

That makes the rule even worse so. You could have a guy that plays 3 quarters of every ail game playing every game for a team way down the ladder.

Regs also state: "On regrading a player can only play for the next team down in that Club."
You cant have the situation you describe

Footage from Clondalkin V Barnhall in div 8. The Clon 13 didn't stand a chance!

http://www.the42.ie/irish-rugby-george-north-clondalkin-1941627-Feb2015/

.ak

He did get caught by surprise from the pop pass in fairness. But still funny.

GavMan

Any word on the cups?

I believe the draws were supposed to be this week

gaius c

Cups cups cups
J1
J2
J3

gaius c

Winters cup is done but not publicised yet.

gaius c

J4
J5

jamesbondings

hahaha class, Tarf could have 2 teams in the final, that is a match id love to see hahaha although nure first round......

.ak

jamesbondings wrote: »

hahaha class, Tarf could have 2 teams in the final, that is a match id love to see hahaha although nure first round......

Yeah honestly speaking we (div11 team) would do well to beat that Nure team who are div10 afaik. You never know though.

jamesbondings

but imagine that final, some piss up after lol..............jaysus id nearly come homw just to watch it....a competitve friendly lol

Teferi

There was an all Nure final there a few years ago and it turned into an absolute brawl apparently. Loads of bad blood for months after. Not convinced an all club final is the best thing tbh.

.ak

Teferi wrote: »

There was an all Nure final there a few years ago and it turned into an absolute brawl apparently. Loads of bad blood for months after. Not convinced an all club final is the best thing tbh.

So, even Nure hate playing Nure?

Pudsy33

You're playing my team AK!

.ak

Pudsy33 wrote: »

You're playing my team AK!

Were you playing for them last year in the league? I played in div10 last year so probably played you...

I won't be playing that game this year however, unless I find a miracle cure for broken collarbones in the next week or so.... Might give Heaslip a buzz actually.

stephen_n

.ak wrote: »

I won't be playing that game this year however, unless I find a miracle cure for broken collarbones in the next week or so....

FFs you broke your collarbone? Do you Clontarf boys not drink milk or something. Clearly you're more Luke than Jamie.

gaius c

jamesbondings wrote: »

hahaha class, Tarf could have 2 teams in the final, that is a match id love to see hahaha although nure first round......

No Kilkenny. Terenure will walk this cup.

Pudsy33

gaius c wrote: »

No Kilkenny. Terenure will walk this cup.

Wouldn't say that, Suttonians are a good team.

.ak

stephen_n wrote: »

FFs you broke your collarbone? Do you Clontarf boys not drink milk or something. Clearly you're more Luke than Jamie.

Ha, actually, I don't drink milk much, and it apparently does not improve bone strength or health....


But I'm not really a good example of disproving that.

And yes, I'll take being likened to Luke Fitzgerald. :pac:

gaius c

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Wouldn't say that, Suttonians are a good team.

Aye but Terenure are cup specialists with a massive player base. Hard to look past them really.

After that, the division 9 teams, of which Wesley are the highest placed, are the most likely. You did notice that there are division 9 teams in the J5 cup, didn't you? ;-)

cloneslad

gaius c wrote: »

No Kilkenny. Terenure will walk this cup.

We played and beat them twice this season, though only by 2&3 points in each game, and the game could have gone either way.

They do have a good side, but Suttonians beat them 38-0 in January, like the bective team that won the cup last season, there may be dubious looks into the team that turns that scoreline around.

delta_bravo

jamesbondings wrote: »

hahaha class, Tarf could have 2 teams in the final, that is a match id love to see hahaha although nure first round......

I may be wrong but if that happens the higher team wins automatically and no game is played. Last season in the J4 cup terenure had 2 teams in the semi but both ended up losing but I believe at the time someone mentioned this would happen. Open to correction though.

jamesbondings

delta_bravo wrote: »

I may be wrong but if that happens the higher team wins automatically and no game is played. Last season in the J4 cup terenure had 2 teams in the semi but both ended up losing but I believe at the time someone mentioned this would happen. Open to correction though.

If that is the case i would find it terribly unfair on the lower side, considering they are supposed to be "worse" that those above them, if i was on the lower team id really feel off by that....but lets be honest both tarf teams wont go all the way, hopefully one does though

delta_bravo

jamesbondings wrote: »

If that is the case i would find it terribly unfair on the lower side, considering they are supposed to be "worse" that those above them, if i was on the lower team id really feel off by that....but lets be honest both tarf teams wont go all the way, hopefully one does though

Same thing happens in the league though. You can never have 2 teams in the same division.

jamesbondings

ah yeah but a cup is different imo if they both worked hard, knocked out good opponents and didnt get the chance to compete in a final they would have a right to be pissed.

GavMan

Would be a very unsatisfactory outcome IMO. I would definitely want a crack at a higher grade team in my club

jamesbondings

also id feel like a cheat if it was just handed to me, i mean the lower team did just as well as the higher graded team....it would be a great day out too is suppose.....i highly doubt there would be any bad blood either! seriously good day out win or lose.....

a tarf man can only dream though!

JonnyF

any word on the J6/Development Cup this year - think it's called the Guilfoyle?

gaius c

JonnyF wrote: »

any word on the J6/Development Cup this year - think it's called the Guilfoyle?

Think it got scrapped because some clubs didn't quite get the "development" part of the ethos and fielded their U20's supplemented by former professional rugby players, including an ex-Ireland A player and a Heineken cup medal winner.

Example: http://www.leinsterrugbydomestic.com/diagram/23281/guilfoyle-james_cup(metro_j6)

shoutman

Hey,

Does anyone know what the eligibility rules are for the J5 cup?

I've been hearing that you need to have played 4 league matches in division 9/10/11 in order to be eligible to play. Does anyone know if this is the case?

The Lost Sheep

shoutman wrote: »

Hey,

Does anyone know what the eligibility rules are for the J5 cup?

I've been hearing that you need to have played 4 league matches in division 9/10/11 in order to be eligible to play. Does anyone know if this is the case?

Would assume the eligibility rules are in the below link. About 4 games sounds right to play as it stops teams putting in players who haven't played the lower leagues all season and are just in for the cup

Contact @Dermotom , domestic rugby admin, if unsure.

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/domestic/clubs/competition_regulations.php

shoutman

Thanks, found the paragraph in question:

For a player to be eligible to play in any Metropolitan Cup (with the exception of the
Leinster Senior League Cup,) or the play-offs of any Metro League Competition or
under 20’s Competitions, they shall have played in at least 4 matches at that level or
below in the current season.

cloneslad

shoutman wrote: »

Thanks, found the paragraph in question:

For a player to be eligible to play in any Metropolitan Cup (with the exception of the
Leinster Senior League Cup,) or the play-offs of any Metro League Competition or
under 20’s Competitions, they shall have played in at least 4 matches at that level or
below in the current season.

I really hope teams abide by that. Last year nobody won the cup because of a team playing bangers and we had some serious injuries out of playing against a team who did.