The Big Question: United vs Liverpool - Read Mod Note in OP

Will I Amnt

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Yet lvg choose to start his 6th choice cb in a system change

McNair? Who could have played ahead of him? He was starting regardless of the system.
Reverting to 3 CB's was a result of the injury crisis, it has played a huge part whatever way you look at it.

Iused2likebusts

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

If you are missing 3 of the same type of player, it is worse than being missing 3 players in different positions. It means that not only are your first choice players gone, but your cover as well. It means you have to dig into your youth system for inexperienced players that may not even be good enough to cement a career in the championship, let alone the PL. The severity of injuries is completely relative to the standard of cover in these areas. I can't believe you aren't acknowledging this.

I'll make it clearer. If United lose Rooney they replace with Mata, Jones they replace with Smalling, DDG they replace with Lindegaard and Blind they replace with Carrick. That is 4 first team players injured but they are being replaced with quality that has proven itself over the years. If United lose Jones, Rafael, Rojo and Evans, it means we must play a winger at RB and at least one youth team player or midfielder at CB. This creates a far bigger problem. Do you get it now?

Also, it is one thing playing Valencia at RB against palace where we had 70% possession and another playing him against Arsenal. I think you are wilfully trying to downplay or ignore clear factors in every situation for some reason.

I'd argue rooney adm and ddg would be a far bigger loss than Evans Rojo and Jones. As I've said from the start he didn't have to play 3 youth players and arsenal were missing the same number of key players. Conceding goals hasn't been Utds problem they have only let in 3 against arsenal Chelsea and city so maybe your underestimating Blackett and mcnairs ability compared to your four senior CBs.

PhlegmyMoses

kryogen wrote: »

Chose?

He is arguing that LVG could have used only one youth team defender against a Arsenal, instead of two. It ignores our right back and subsequent left back woes.

Donnielighto

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

It's not net spend but gross overall spend.

Should have elaborated, there was a conveyor of CFS in particular for a few seasons. Outgoings had to tot up eventually.

PhlegmyMoses

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

I'd argue rooney adm and ddg would be a far bigger loss than Evans Rojo and Jones. As I've said from the start he didn't have to play 3 youth players and arsenal were missing the same number of key players. Conceding goals hasn't been Utds problem they have only let in 3 against arsenal Chelsea and city so maybe your underestimating Blackett and mcnairs ability compared to your four senior CBs.

You actually aren't getting my point. I'm not saying Jones and Rojo are bigger losses than ADM. Ah forget it. Not the thread for it anyway.

Will I Amnt

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

I'd argue rooney adm and ddg would be a far bigger loss than Evans Rojo and Jones. As I've said from the start he didn't have to play 3 youth players and arsenal were missing the same number of key players. Conceding goals hasn't been Utds problem they have only let in 3 against arsenal Chelsea and city so maybe your underestimating Blackett and mcnairs ability compared to your four senior CBs.

They are youth team players in a position that traditionally you will want experience. Just because they have faired alright in the stats doesn't take away from the fact that it's a makeshift defence.

Iused2likebusts

kryogen wrote: »

Chose?

Oh ye chose ☺

Iused2likebusts

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

You actually aren't getting my point. I'm not saying Jones and Rojo are bigger losses than ADM. Ah forget it. Not the thread for it anyway.

I do get your point . Let's forget it anyway I should be playing with my kids.

rarnes1

rarnes1 wrote: »

Well the opening post was who would finish higher in the league.

If it has defaulted into a Liverpool v Utd thread all the.better. It'll keep discussion away from the superthreads.

It hasn't really though. Most of the points being made are all relevant to what the outcome might actually be at the end of season and the various reasons why or why not Utd will finish ahead of Liverpool or vice versa.

M!Ck^

M!Ck^ wrote: »

It hasn't really though. Most of the points being made are all relevant to what the outcome might actually be at the end of season and the various reasons why or why not Utd will finish ahead of Liverpool or vice versa.

It's great tbh

The Moldy Gowl

rarnes1 wrote: »

Kryogen Rex??


Thought I was reading the same post twice for a second!

At least we are consistent.

I had the tab open, just hadnt replied before him, or maybe we are the same person.

Gowlasauras Rex

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

At least we are consistent.

I had the tab open, just hadnt replied before him, or maybe we are the same person.

Your kryos sarcastic alter ego / evil twin :pac:

kryogen

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

He is arguing that LVG could have used only one youth team defender against a Arsenal, instead of two. It ignores our right back and subsequent left back woes.

That would be where my confusion comes from, there wasn't really that much choice defensively with who was available

The Moldy Gowl

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Your kryos sarcastic alter ego / evil twin :pac:

Im just his bold brother. He bullied me.



Now watch as the next few visitors to our profiles will be mods.

The Moldy Gowl

Look at us now, posting at the same time. Coincidence?

kryogen

The timing is superb in fairness

Things hotting up ahead of the upcoming clash of ex titans.

Both unconvincing but picking up wins. Utd probably playing a bit better.

rarnes1

rarnes1 wrote: »

Things hotting up ahead of the upcoming clash of ex titans.

Both unconvincing but picking up wins. Utd probably playing a bit better.

To be fair, probably is an understatement. "Oh no he didn't"

The Moldy Gowl

Stop bing a bold boy mick.

garra

rarnes1 wrote: »

Things hotting up ahead of the upcoming clash of ex titans.

Both unconvincing but picking up wins. Utd probably playing a bit better.

Yeah I would make Utd favourites going into this tie, firing on all cylinders at home. Dont give LFC much chance here at all

OwaynOTT

garra wrote: »

Yeah I would make Utd favourites going into this tie, firing on all cylinders at home. Dont give LFC much chance here at all

I'd agree with that. Liverpool had not got a hope, tbh. I'd be happy as long as we can keep Rooney within Earth's gravitational pull.

garra

garra wrote: »

Yeah I would make Utd favourites going into this tie, firing on all cylinders at home. Dont give LFC much chance here at all

.... Pretty sure utd were favs for the old Trafford game last year too

OwaynOTT

OwaynOTT wrote: »

I'd be happy as long as we can keep Rooney within Earth's gravitational pull.

Had a giggle at that one, Well played

Rayne Wooney

United need to be brushing aside midtable teams if they are serious about getting top 4, anything other than at least a two goal win against Liverpool will be considered poor

Augeo

Augeo wrote: »

.... Pretty sure utd were favs for the old Trafford game last year too

Two very different circumstances.....

Rayne Wooney

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

United need to be brushing aside midtable teams if they are serious about getting top 4, anything other than at least a two goal win against Liverpool will be considered poor

And its the equaliser... Oh yes get in

Liam O

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

United need to be brushing aside midtable teams if they are serious about getting top 4, anything other than at least a two goal win against Liverpool will be considered poor

I don't know, a player like Lambert is fairly unstoppable. Poor players like Rojo and Fellaini wouldn't get near the Liverpool team at the moment they've been so bad this season. I seen United on match of the day in September and all this was obvious.

Iused2likebusts

Liam O wrote: »

I don't know, a player like Lambert is fairly unstoppable. Poor players like Rojo and Fellaini wouldn't get near the Liverpool team at the moment they've been so bad this season. I seen United on match of the day in September and all this was obvious.

Fellani has had his first good month in his utd career. In the interest of fairness it took 2 years of suarez being unplayable and signing for barca before a lot could accept he probably would've got In the Utd team after all.

Liam O

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Fellani has had his first good month in his utd career. In the interest of fairness it took 2 years of suarez being unplayable and signing for barca before a lot could accept he probably would've got In the Utd team after all.

Probably because United had the previous top 2 strikers in the league. Hardly comparable to an over the hill Gerrard, Allen and though he has been good Henderson. Do we just not take Fellaini at Everton into account at all? Sure why would we?

Rayne Wooney

The only season Suarez would have got in the United team is last season

I wouldn't take any Pool players now, maybe Sterling to replace Januzaj on the bench, and you could fit Henderson on the bench somewhere too

Rayne Wooney

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

The only season Suarez would have got in the United team is last season

I wouldn't take any Pool players now, maybe Sterling to replace Januzaj on the bench, and you could fit Henderson on the bench somewhere too

I would throw Sturridge in there as cover for RVP

The Moldy Gowl

Sturridge would be the new improved Danny Welbeck.

Lovern as well. Was good last year. Our new Fellaini

Will I Amnt

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Sturridge would be the new improved Danny Welbeck.

Lovern as well. Was good last year. Our new Fellaini

Never got on the Lovren train myself, I watched a lot of Southampton last season and he wasn't anything special.

PhlegmyMoses

I'd have Sterling definitely. Huge potential. Sturridge is a great player but United's frontline is already crowded with talent. Would take Henderson but not as a starter. Moreno is potentially very good as well.

brevity

Utd have the better team at present. Mata, Rooney and Di Maria are all excellent players and Liverpool don't really have anyone of that ilk.

Still its Utd vs Liverpool, all bets are off.

Will I Amnt

brevity wrote: »

Still its Utd vs Liverpool, all bets are off.

Pretty much this.
Over the last 10 years or so, I have only been confident going into this fixture once, a couple of seasons back, despite the gulf in quality at certain times.

Liam O

brevity wrote: »

Utd have the better team at present. Mata, Rooney and Di Maria are all excellent players and Liverpool don't really have anyone of that ilk.

Still its Utd vs Liverpool, all bets are off.

I don't believe for a second that the United team aren't capable of a huge capitulation and Liverpool aren't capable of raising their game against them. With Di Maria probably out Herrera will have to have one of his on days and Blind would have been a better option than Carrick in it. Hopefully there's a bit more defensive cover by next week and one of Jones or Evans can be there if something happens to Rojo or Smalling until then. Smalling isn't great against a pressing system so that would worry me, Evans has far more ability to play the ball out which will be important because a lot of recent United-Liverpool games have descended into a long ball farce from United. If Rooney can keep up his form going into it I'll be confident of a win. If he looks sluggish on Monday probably a draw tbh.

brevity

Will be interesting to see how the managers approach it. Will they set out for the draw, a loss at this stage as both teams are picking up a bit of form might not be the best for confidence.

brevity

brevity wrote: »

Will be interesting to see how the managers approach it. Will they set out for the draw, a loss at this stage as both teams are picking up a bit of form might not be the best for confidence.

I can't see Utd setting up for a draw a home, defiantly not under LVG. I'm hoping Liverpool melt under pressure and we press them back into their half.
Mignolet is laughable in goal as is Johnson at RB & Lovren @ CB, considerable weak points in the pool team that we should exploit.
Hope to **** Chris Smalling doesn't do anything stupid like he did against city.
Would love to see some payback for last year and give Pool a right hammering and this is probably the best chance of doing that in some time.
Rodgers only hope would best try and counter this and dig his team in-deep, hope to frustrate us and pray Sterling starts running at defenders on the break if there to have a chance of getting a result.

Cyrus

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I can't see Utd setting up for a draw a home, defiantly not under LVG. I'm hoping Liverpool melt under pressure and we press them back into their half.
Mignolet is laughable in goal as is Johnson at RB & Lovren @ CB, considerable weak points in the pool team that we should exploit.
Hope to **** Chris Smalling doesn't do anything stupid like he did against city.
Would love to see some payback for last year and give Pool a right hammering and this is probably the best chance of doing that in some time.
Rodgers only hope would best try and counter this and dig his team in-deep, hope to frustrate us and pray Sterling starts running at defenders on the break if there to have a chance of getting a result.

few wins and the confidence is high

there are as many weak spots in uniteds team as there are in liverpools, there isnt one decent CB, suspect full backs and centre midfield is weak.

it will be a tight enough game, score draw

Cyrus

Cyrus wrote: »

few wins and the confidence is high

there are as many weak spots in uniteds team as there are in liverpools, there isnt one decent CB, suspect full backs and centre midfield is weak.

it will be a tight enough game, score draw

Player for player in the positions you mention we are stronger this season in nearly every area than the equivalent for Liverpool.

Iused2likebusts

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

The only season Suarez would have got in the United team is last season

I wouldn't take any Pool players now, maybe Sterling to replace Januzaj on the bench, and you could fit Henderson on the bench somewhere too

Some lads are on the wind up and having a bit of fun and fair enough. But I dont think that is the case with yourself and you genuinely believe this stuff. Like do you really think suarez wouldnt have got in the utd team the year before last.
DDG, ADM and a utd forward are the 3 players Id take at liverpool in a heartbeat. I dont think there is anything between the rest of the options at both clubs.

The lack of Europe and cup comps should help Utd. Should be fresher.

Add the fact they are better in every department it's only a matter of turning up

You could argue no player bar De Gea would get in the Liverpool team. He has been the difference in those 5 points.

Cyrus

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Player for player in the positions you mention we are stronger this season in nearly every area than the equivalent for Liverpool.

disagree

Liam O

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Some lads are on the wind up and having a bit of fun and fair enough. But I dont think that is the case with yourself and you genuinely believe this stuff. Like do you really think suarez wouldnt have got in the utd team the year before last.
DDG, ADM and a utd forward are the 3 players Id take at liverpool in a heartbeat. I dont think there is anything between the rest of the options at both clubs.

Which United forward? The 3 that are better than all of Liverpool's? So you are saying you wouldn't have Mata over Coutinho? Carrick over Gerrard in the deep midfield role? Shaw over Moreno or whoever? Rojo over Skrtel? Fellaini over Can or Allen? Herrera over Henderson (the only debatable one so far)? One team had a horrendous start and is picking it up now. One team has been consistently bad all season. United have more quality all over the field and on the bench than Liverpool, it really shouldn't be up for debate I'd have thought but yet performances and results seem to be irrelevant in the face of 'I seen Leicester score 5 against United on MotD a couple of months ago, they must still be bad in defence.' Only conceding 3 against City, Chelsea and Arsenal would say otherwise.

Rayne Wooney

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Some lads are on the wind up and having a bit of fun and fair enough. But I dont think that is the case with yourself and you genuinely believe this stuff. Like do you really think suarez wouldnt have got in the utd team the year before last.
DDG, ADM and a utd forward are the 3 players Id take at liverpool in a heartbeat. I dont think there is anything between the rest of the options at both clubs.

RVP scored 26 league goals the season before last winning us the title, there is no way Suarez would have replaced him in the team


As for the teams, De Gea is better than Mignolet, Shaw better than Moreno, I'd take Rojo over Lovren on what I've seen from both this season, Rafael over Johnson, Blind over Gerrard at DM, toss up between Fellaini and Henderson really both have had one very good season in the PL and Fellaini is probably winning now you could play both formation depending, Di Maria over Sterling, Rooney and Mata over Lallana and Coutinho and Falcao/RVP over Sturridge

You could argue that one liverpool CB would get in there because Evans, Jones and Smalling haven't been great, but that's it really. Maybe two liverpool players would get in the United team with everyone fit

Cyrus

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

RVP scored 26 league goals the season before last winning us the title, there is no way Suarez would have replaced him in the team


As for the teams, De Gea is better than Mignolet, Shaw better than Moreno, I'd take Rojo over Lovren on what I've seen from both this season, Rafael over Johnson, Blind over Gerrard at DM, toss up between Fellaini and Henderson really both have had one very good season in the PL and Fellaini is probably winning now you could play both formation depending, Di Maria over Sterling, Rooney and Mata over Lallana and Coutinho and Falcao/RVP over Sturridge

You could argue that one liverpool CB would get in there because Evans, Jones and Smalling haven't been great, but that's it really. Maybe two liverpool players would get in the United team with everyone fit

Shaw better than moreno? very little in it so far this season, rafael over johnson? bad as glenjo has been, no thanks, blind over gerrard, nope, fellani and henderson is a toss up, leave it out, sterling easily gets one of the spots behind rvp aswell, most likely matas

Cyrus

Cyrus wrote: »

disagree

Fair enough if you disagree, but I would be interested in hearing why you actually disagree player for player

Cyrus

Cyrus wrote: »

Shaw better than moreno? very little in it so far this season, rafael over johnson? bad as glenjo has been, no thanks, blind over gerrard, nope, fellani and henderson is a toss up, leave it out, sterling easily gets one of the spots behind rvp aswell, most likely matas

You can't be serious?