The Big Question: United vs Liverpool - Read Mod Note in OP

Fescue

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Who are you classing as the most influential players? Bearing in mind the player they are now and not a few years ago...

And yes, it's a massive improvement on management and an actual centre mid has been signed. I'm a lot happier with United going into this season compared to what we had last, still expecting more signings too.

Giggs, Vidic, Rio and Evra. All captained Utd at various points.

Van Gaal hasn't done much in the game since 99. Won the Dutch League. Won the Bundesliga with Bayern but that's not a huge surprise and was unceremonioulsy sacked afterwards.

Now I'm playing devils advocate somewhat but there does seem to be this certainty that LVG will turn everything around instantly. Somewhat unfounded if you look at his career in the last 15 years. Plus he is in his mid-sixties. Does he have the drive to succeed anymore?

greenman09

United will finished higher this year. The loss of Suarez is massive. An amazing player when on song. Utd in the other hand start afresh after last year. Quality signings proven manager. And more to come.

Rayne Wooney

greenman09 wrote: »

United will finished higher this year. The loss of Suarez is massive. An amazing player when on song. Utd in the other hand start afresh after last year. Quality signings proven manager. And more to come.

Quality young signings but I doubt other teams would be worried about United's business so far

Need at least 3 more players and someone like Vidal or Strootman before the team is in a good state

Iused2likebusts

Liam O wrote: »

Under 70 for United is one of the more unlikely things posted in this thread. Some ropey statistics being pulled out in this post too.

I'm firmly of the belief that if Walcott and Ramsey didn't get injured then Arsenal would have finished ahead of Liverpool last season for the people above. The fact many aren't including them in their top 4s is craziness. They have better players in every position than Liverpool bar Sturridge being better than Giroud and better than United everywhere other than strikers, goalkeeper and a wash at No.10. They should finish above both but I think squad wise United are closer to them than Liverpool who are miles ahead of United in terms of tactical discipline. That's something I expect LVG to change and make United superior to Liverpool the coming season.

All teams get injuries and 2 people didnt include arsenal in the top 4 its not the issue you are trying to make it out to be. Personally I think arsenal will comfortably get top 3 and could win the league if they get a better striker. Wouldnt be so sure on utd's squad as things stand its very imbalanced 3 CB's , a poor midfield bar herrera, one excellent left sided player and two average right sided options. Abundance of number 10's and forwards some of great quality with not enough games to keep all these players happy.

Fescue

Liam O wrote: »

Until very recently David De Gea didn't have a cap for Spain. Is that how players are judged now? When he gets named in their next squad it will all be good? Van Gaal has won league titles everywhere he's been and just came 3rd in the WC. If he's had more failures than success then I'd hate to think what you think of some other managers i.e. Liverpools one if that's the way you want to play...

De Gea is young, that's understandable. Herrera is 25 next month. Not a single cap for Spain.

Van Gaal has won two league titles in his last 15 years of management. Winning the Dutch league is not so difficult, ask Steve Mclaren. Winning a league with Bayern is expected. He got sacked the following season.

Liam O

Fescue wrote: »

Giggs, Vidic, Rio and Evra. All captained Utd at various points.

Van Gaal hasn't done much in the game since 99. Won the Dutch League. Won the Bundesliga with Bayern but that's not a huge surprise and was unceremonioulsy sacked afterwards.

Now I'm playing devils advocate somewhat but there does seem to be this certainty that LVG will turn everything around instantly. Somewhat unfounded if you look at his career in the last 15 years. Plus he is in his mid-sixties. Does he have the drive to succeed anymore?

Yeah he looked like he had no drive at that big sports thingy last month alright.

Diabhal Beag

Both are going down next year anyways so it doesn't matter.

MD1990

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Doubt any of Liverpool's buys so far will even make it into the first 11 for the Southampton game, last seasons team minus Suarez and add in Lovren

Lovren wasn't at Liverpool last season. You do realise u just contradicted yourself there.

Rayne Wooney

Fescue wrote: »

De Gea is young, that's understandable. Herrera is 25 next month. Not a single cap for Spain.

Van Gaal has won two league titles in his last 15 years of management. Winning the Dutch league is not so difficult, ask Steve Mclaren. Winning a league with Bayern is expected. He got sacked the following season.

There's a year between Ander and De Gea, and your argument there is the same as me saying Bebe is better than Gerrard because he won more league titles

Are you really questioning Van Gaal's credentials while Brendan Rodgers is Liverpool's manager? A man who just steered far outsiders to 3rd place in a World Cup

Rayne Wooney

MD1990 wrote: »

Lovren wasn't at Liverpool last season. You do realise u just contradicted yourself there.

Lovren hasn't signed for Liverpool yet has he

Will I Amnt

Fescue wrote: »

Giggs, Vidic, Rio and Evra. All captained Utd at various points.

Van Gaal hasn't done much in the game since 99. Won the Dutch League. Won the Bundesliga with Bayern but that's not a huge surprise and was unceremonioulsy sacked afterwards.

Now I'm playing devils advocate somewhat but there does seem to be this certainty that LVG will turn everything around instantly. Somewhat unfounded if you look at his career in the last 15 years. Plus he is in his mid-sixties. Does he have the drive to succeed anymore?

Vidic is the only player that will be missed in regards to performances from those you mentioned. Evra has been a liability for a long time now, Shaw will be an upgrade. Giggs is 40 and Rio barely played of late and I could probably outpace him meself at this stage.

The bulk of the problem last season was a lack of respect for the manager and the obvious weaknesses of said manager.
I've no doubt those players will be back to their best or close to it under van Gaal, he's not some God and a lot of the stuff you hear from United fans is tongue in cheek but he's sure as hell a massive upgrade on Moyes.

Fescue

Liam O wrote: »

Yeah he looked like he had no drive at that big sports thingy last month alright.

I was simply illustrating how you can take a rather biased look at a situation to suit your own ends.

Some United fans are suggesting that all the players we have signed won't get into the team, won't improve us as a squad, etc... All the while Herrera, Shaw and LVG will turn everything around instanly for United.

For what it's worth I actually do think LVG will do well with Utd but it's not a given.

osnola ibax

LVG giving out about all the travel and UTD fans have one way tickets to Cloud Cuckoo Land.

Only joking, Europa league is a distinct possibility

MD1990

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Lovren hasn't signed for Liverpool yet has he

Having medical tomorow. Lallana would have been in the first 11 for the frst game. I see the team being for Southampton.
_____________Mignolet________________
Johnson_____Skrtel____Lovren___Flanagan
_____________Gerrard________________
_______Henderson_____Coutinho_______
_____________Sterling_______________
______Sturridge________Remy________

or a 4-3-3 with Can in midfield.
I don't think Rodgers will get rid of the 4-4-2 diamond altogther.

Will I Amnt

MD1990 wrote: »

Lovren wasn't at Liverpool last season. You do realise u just contradicted yourself there.

I think you might have picked that up wrong...

Zico

Whatever about the soccer season, I can't wait for Oranage 3.:)

Soft Falling Rain

I eagerly await DarkKnight and redbarron's opinions on this matter.

Rayne Wooney

MD1990 wrote: »

Having medical tomorow. Lallana would have been in the first 11 for the frst game. I see the team being for Southampton.
_____________Mignolet________________
Johnson_____Skrtel____Lovren___Flanagan
_____________Gerrard________________
_______Henderson_____Coutinho_______
_____________Sterling_______________
______Sturridge________Remy________

or a 4-3-3 with Can in midfield.
I don't think Rodgers will get rid of the 4-4-2 diamond altogther.

Forgetting Johnson and Gerrard it is a good team, Johnson should be finished at Liverpool, Gerrard should play a part across the season but having him as first choice holding midfielder would come back to haunt Liverpool IMO

If I was Rodgers I'd be looking to spend the Suarez money on a RB, LB and a top DM. Although that would take Rodgers' spending to over 100 million

Utd are the biggest club in the world someone said this week.

Finishing below Liverpool again would be unthinkable

Will I Amnt

osnola ibax wrote: »

LVG giving out about all the travel and UTD fans have one way tickets to Cloud Cuckoo Land.

Only joking, Europa league is a distinct possibility

Maybe you could call us all delusional here instead of running off to your team thread...

LuckyLloyd

Barring some very interesting signings, there is going to be a big dropoff for us this year. Liverpool 2014 / 15 is going to be a rerun of Spurs 2010 / 2011 imo.

LVG is money time, he'll get it done.

Iused2likebusts

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Forgetting Johnson and Gerrard it is a good team, Johnson should be finished at Liverpool, Gerrard should play a part across the season but having him as first choice holding midfielder would come back to haunt Liverpool IMO

If I was Rodgers I'd be looking to spend the Suarez money on a RB, LB and a top DM. Although that would take Rodgers' spending to over 100 million

Gerrard isnt a major issue he would get into both arsenal and utd's midfield only city and chelsea he wouldnt. Johnson on the otherhand is a disaster.

Marty McFly

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Gerrard isnt a major issue he would get into both arsenal and utd's midfield only city and chelsea he wouldnt. Johnson on the otherhand is a disaster.

You can't be serious

googled eyes

Orange2 after he created this thread


On a serious note. Obviously I'd be happy for Liverpool to have a season like last season. pushing top 3 would be great. I'll be watching Utd with interest and while I hope that the crash and burn I doubt they will. I can see the race for the top 4 being very tight.

Right now I'll say Liverpool could edge it. Could all change by the start of the season/close of the window though

Will I Amnt

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Gerrard isnt a major issue he would get into both arsenal and utd's midfield only city and chelsea he wouldnt. Johnson on the otherhand is a disaster.

Getting into United's midfield is nothing to shout about. He really shouldn't by the time the window closes but I wouldn't bet on it. Who does he get in ahead of at Arsenal?

Iused2likebusts

Marty McFly wrote: »

You can't be serious

Gerrard and ramsey would be my midfield 2. Gerrard and herrera at Utd.

Iused2likebusts

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Getting into United's midfield is nothing to shout about. He really shouldn't by the time the window closes but I wouldn't bet on it. Who does he get in ahead of at Arsenal?

Id have gerrard over arteta/flamini/wilshire.

Zico

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Gerrard and ramsey would be my midfield 2. Gerrard and herrera at Utd.

Damn, you're so unbiased you could work for Match of the Day.:)

Marty McFly

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Id have gerrard over arteta/flamini/wilshire.

I wouldn't, Gerard of a few years ago. Now no imo.

Will I Amnt

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Id have gerrard over arteta/flamini/wilshire.

Maybe a few years ago. I think he was pretty awful last season, a load of penalties and a few nice long passes glossed over an increasingly obvious downward spiral.

Iused2likebusts

Marty McFly wrote: »

I wouldn't, Gerard of a few years ago. Now no imo.

Id base it on last seasons evidence . I think arteta struggled, flamini had his moments and wilshire has yet to fulfill his potential. Apart from striker I think its tthe only other area arsenal are a bit weak in.

Gerrard was very good 2nd half of last season, superb in some games.

Obviously some more knowledgeable top fans know better than Rodgers of course.

Marty McFly

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Id base it on last seasons evidence . I think arteta struggled, flamini had his moments and wilshire has yet to fulfill his potential. Apart from striker I think its tthe only other area arsenal are a bit weak in.

Oh I do agree it currently a weakness one I'm hoping Arsenal correct this window. One we seem to be trying to correct.

Just feel Gerrard has declined so far I wouldn't have him in the Arsenal midfield .

Iused2likebusts

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Maybe a few years ago. I think he was pretty awful last season, a load of penalties and a few nice long passes glossed over an increasingly obvious downward spiral.

He was poor before Xmas. However Id strongly disagree after Xmas when he was moved into a position that helped him conserve his energy and utilise his passing range. I thought he was as good as Ive seen him in years and he was playing for the team. I was never one that was frothing at the mouth over him in his dynamic days of yesteryear.

Fescue

Marty McFly wrote: »

Oh I do agree it currently a weakness one I'm hoping Arsenal correct this window. One we seem to be trying to correct.

Just feel Gerrard has declined so far I wouldn't have him in the Arsenal midfield .

In his new playmaking role he was the most creative midfielder in the league last season.

Iused2likebusts

Marty McFly wrote: »

Oh I do agree it currently a weakness one I'm hoping Arsenal correct this window. One we seem to be trying to correct.

Just feel Gerrard has declined so far I wouldn't have him in the Arsenal midfield .

Fair enough I saw the decline when liverpool had him trying to do what he was doing in his 20's but in his new role I think he has been one of the better midfielders in the league.

Donnielighto

Fescue wrote: »

What is that based on? I can see an argument to say they might be slightly better but that is largely based on Suarez leaving and Sanchez arriving.

Do you think Liverpools multiple signings are going to have little impact this season?

Ramsey is back. He woulda walked into the team of the season if he had been injured for the 1st half of the season instead of the 2nd. I expect arsenal to be very good this season if they can avoid getting stretched bodies wise in CM and CB.

Donnielighto

Liam O wrote: »

Under 70 for United is one of the more unlikely things posted in this thread. Some ropey statistics being pulled out in this post too.

I'm firmly of the belief that if Walcott and Ramsey didn't get injured then Arsenal would have finished ahead of Liverpool last season for the people above. The fact many aren't including them in their top 4s is craziness. They have better players in every position than Liverpool bar Sturridge being better than Giroud and better than United everywhere other than strikers, goalkeeper and a wash at No.10. They should finish above both but I think squad wise United are closer to them than Liverpool who are miles ahead of United in terms of tactical discipline. That's something I expect LVG to change and make United superior to Liverpool the coming season.

United are stonger at RB imo

WealthyB

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Maybe a few years ago. I think he was pretty awful last season, a load of penalties and a few nice long passes glossed over an increasingly obvious downward spiral.

Oh dear.



Gerrard was moved into an entirely new position half way through the year and excelled.

His dead ball delivery was the best bar none in the league this year too. How many assists from dead balls again?

Iused2likebusts

Zico wrote: »

Damn, you're so unbiased you could work for Match of the Day.:)

I know I have the blinkers on again the captain of a team that finished 2nd in the league with 13 goals and 13 assists and was voted on the pfa team of the year what am I thinking off. You my friend are so predictable Im sure your getting a gerrard slipping Gif ready;)

Donnielighto

rarnes1 wrote: »

Top top top question. I doubt many fans give a rattling fcuk. If Liverpool can secure CL again I actually couldn't care less if Utd finish above us. Obviously prefer if they don't didn't but wouldn't lose much sleep over it.

Surprised an Arsenal fan cares that much

I assumed he was one of your lot :pac::pac:

Will I Amnt

WealthyB wrote: »

Oh dear.



Gerrard was moved into an entirely new position half way through the year and excelled.

His dead ball delivery was the best bar none in the league this year too. How many assists from dead balls again?

I haven't enough internet where I am to see that gif but I hope you're not trying to prove me wrong with 1 incident in gif form?

Paj

Gerrard sure can deliver dangerous balls into the box. no doubt.

Donnielighto

Donnielighto wrote: »

I assumed he was one of your lot :pac::pac:

Sure who knows in here. I wouldn't believe a good few people with the stuff they say over the years!

WealthyB

Will I Amnt wrote: »

I haven't enough internet where I am to see that gif but I hope you're not trying to prove me wrong with 1 incident in gif form?

If you read all my post you'd know I wasn't.

hefferboi

Will I Amnt wrote: »

I haven't enough internet where I am to see that gif but I hope you're not trying to prove me wrong with 1 incident in gif form?

Gerrard was poor before Xmas, he missed a few games and came back in his new position as a dm. He had a shocker in his first game against villa but got better and better every game till the end of the season.

He raked up the assists and played the qb role very well so I think you're being unfair on him.

I would say, though, that in the position he's playing, he doesn't have the defensive capabilities needed an his attacking play glosses over that.

Getting overrun in midfield was a big factor in us leaking goals last season, imo, and gerrard isn't helping in the position he's playing.

Will I Amnt

hefferboi wrote: »

Gerrard was poor before Xmas, he missed a few games and came back in his new position as a dm. He had a shocker in his first game against villa but got better and better every game till the end of the season.

He raked up the assists and played the qb role very well so I think you're being unfair on him.

I would say, though, that in the position he's playing, he doesn't have the defensive capabilities needed an his attacking play glosses over that.

Getting overrun in midfield was a big factor in us leaking goals last season, imo, and gerrard isn't helping in the position he's playing.

I seem to remember when he was out injured that time that the general consensus among fans on here was that the team played much better and looked a much more rounded outfit?

Donnielighto

WealthyB wrote: »

Oh dear.



Gerrard was moved into an entirely new position half way through the year and excelled.

His dead ball delivery was the best bar none in the league this year too. How many assists from dead balls again?

At least he recovered from that slip :P:P

His game has suited the new role. Tbh I think that rodgers getting him to realise what he's capable of doing and not capable of doing was a big step. He was always a bit too much of team on his shoulders attitudde at times through the years will be interesting if he can keep the level of performance up, I imagine he will be managed a bit this season too due to European games.

Ye'll proobably win the CL and come 5ht with utd in 4th :mad::mad:

LuckyLloyd

If you keep saying a player has declined and is past it eventually the inevitability of time will prove you "right". No lose strategy really, *claps*.

Donnielighto

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

I know I have the blinkers on again the captain of a team that finished 2nd in the league with 13 goals and 13 assists and was voted on the pfa team of the year what am I thinking off. You my friend are so predictable Im sure your getting a gerrard slipping Gif ready;)

The PFA thing is pretty flawed though due to the time the votes are done and if you had ramsey injured at the start of the season and not the 2nd half I dont think gerrard would have made it. Still a good season for him.