The Big Question: United vs Liverpool - Read Mod Note in OP

Godge

whatawaster wrote: »

Everton without Lukaku ahead of United and Pool?

Liverpool without Suarez and the extra matches of Champions League ahead of Spurs, Utd., Newcastle, Southampton or Everton?

It is all a matter of conjecture at this stage.

Never make predictions before 1 September. The transfer window has closed and there have been three games to assess teams.

jester77

whatawaster wrote: »

Everton without Lukaku ahead of United and Pool?

Liverpool squad is too light to handle the extra CL games, Utd still feel unbalanced to me. As the current squads stand I think Everton might just pip them but there is still time left before the transfer window closes.

whatawaster

jester77 wrote: »

Liverpool squad is too light to handle the extra CL games, Utd still feel unbalanced to me. As the current squads stand I think Everton might just pip them but there is still time left before the transfer window closes.

Everton will have Europe too and have a far lighter squad than Liverpool

niallo27

Are people really thinking arsenal will challenge. They haven't for years and nothing has changed. They were guaranteed top 3 last year as well we were told but the same old failings came up. Arsenal will drop out of the top 4 this year I guarantee it, the fa cup was just papering over the cracks.

Paj

Nothing has changed?
New physio
New fitness coach (ten years with the german national team)
new alexis sanchez
Debuchy upgrade over sagna
Calum chambers
David ospina

Don't forget we were 5 points behind second last season.
I don't expected arsenal to challenge, Chelsea are too strong, but to dismiss us from the top four is foolish and has been done before over the past seventeen seasons. Resulting in broken guarantees.

whatawaster

Paj wrote: »

Nothing has changed?
New physio
New fitness coach (ten years with the german national team)
new alexis sanchez
Debuchy upgrade over sagna
Calum chambers
David ospina

Don't forget we were 5 points behind second last season.
I don't expected arsenal to challenge, Chelsea are too strong, but to dismiss us from the top four is foolish and has been done before over the past seventeen seasons. Resulting in broken guarantees.

Debuchy is not an upgrade on Sagna unless ill discipline is what you're looking for

Hidalgo

niallo27 wrote: »

Are people really thinking arsenal will challenge. They haven't for years and nothing has changed. They were guaranteed top 3 last year as well we were told but the same old failings came up. Arsenal will drop out of the top 4 this year I guarantee it, the fa cup was just papering over the cracks.

On what basis will Arsenal fade
They've a big upgrade in Sanchez. They were missing Walcott for a lot of last season. If he stays fit thats searing pace in attack.
Right now they're a surer bet than Liverpool minus Suarez. Lots of question marks as to how new players will settle in at Anfield?

niallo27

niallo27 wrote: »

Are people really thinking arsenal will challenge. They haven't for years and nothing has changed. They were guaranteed top 3 last year as well we were told but the same old failings came up. Arsenal will drop out of the top 4 this year I guarantee it, the fa cup was just papering over the cracks.

Depends how Sanchez clicks really.

They were seriously lacking a striker last year and some bottle in big games.

Giroud isn't top 4 standard, not near it.


In relation to this thread, I think themselves, Utd and Liverpool will be battling for 2 CL places.

gosplan

niallo27 wrote: »

Are people really thinking arsenal will challenge. They haven't for years and nothing has changed. They were guaranteed top 3 last year as well we were told but the same old failings came up. Arsenal will drop out of the top 4 this year I guarantee it, the fa cup was just papering over the cracks.

How much then?

Marty McFly

niallo27 wrote: »

Are people really thinking arsenal will challenge. They haven't for years and nothing has changed. They were guaranteed top 3 last year as well we were told but the same old failings came up. Arsenal will drop out of the top 4 this year I guarantee it, the fa cup was just papering over the cracks.

Want to put your money were your mouth is? Because I guarantee your talking Shiite

Paj

whatawaster wrote: »

Debuchy is not an upgrade on Sagna unless ill discipline is what you're looking for

Well Deschamps disagrees with you, also so do statistics. Regardless, sagna has been replaced well.

glued

I don't think Arsenal are going to challenge for the title but they'll finish in the top 4.

Sanchez is a good player but they lack a good striker and you still have serious question marks about their bottle in the big games. Also outside of Kos I wouldn't rate Arsenal defensively.

Paj

glued wrote: »

Also outside of Kos I wouldn't rate Arsenal defensively.

Yeah most people don't rate us defensively, last year only city Chelsea and Everton conceded less than us, considering we were murdered in three games that's no too bad, and the season before only Chelsea conceded less.

Marty McFly

Paj wrote: »

Yeah most people don't rate us defensively, last year only city Chelsea and Everton conceded less than us, considering we were murdered in three games that's no too bad, and the season before only Chelsea conceded less.

Yea but but ..... the media says Merts is slow and **** so it must be true :pac:

Let's not forget Cech and Sczez also both kept most clean sheets last season.

gimmick

I'm just glad this thread is being closely monitored by the mods. A great job they do.

Rayne Wooney

You could make a much better argument for Liverpool dropping out than Arsenal

Saying Arsenal will drop out is unfounded IMO, people have been saying it almost 20 years


Edit: I can't believe I actually have to say the above when Liverpool have finished 8th and 7th in the past 3 years.

Godge

niallo27 wrote: »

Are people really thinking arsenal will challenge. They haven't for years and nothing has changed. They were guaranteed top 3 last year as well we were told but the same old failings came up. Arsenal will drop out of the top 4 this year I guarantee it, the fa cup was just papering over the cracks.

The F.A. Cup was one trophy more than Liverpool and Utd. won last season.

I can guess what you are at so I won't reply any further.

CSF

rarnes1 wrote: »

Depends how Sanchez clicks really.

They were seriously lacking a striker last year and some bottle in big games.

Giroud isn't top 4 standard, not near it.


In relation to this thread, I think themselves, Utd and Liverpool will be battling for 2 CL places.

Giroud is such a good player IMO. There are just games that he isn't particularly suited to which is why having another guy is so crucial to Arsenal.

Skylinehead

niallo27 wrote: »

Are people really thinking arsenal will challenge. They haven't for years and nothing has changed. They were guaranteed top 3 last year as well we were told but the same old failings came up. Arsenal will drop out of the top 4 this year I guarantee it, the fa cup was just papering over the cracks.

Keep saying it, one day it might come true

shano_88

niallo27 wrote: »

Are people really thinking arsenal will challenge. They haven't for years and nothing has changed. They were guaranteed top 3 last year as well we were told but the same old failings came up. Arsenal will drop out of the top 4 this year I guarantee it, the fa cup was just papering over the cracks.

The Pontiac

Godge wrote: »

The F.A. Cup was one trophy more than Liverpool and Utd. won last season.

I can guess what you are at so I won't reply any further.

In fairness, no one cares about the FA Cup anymore. It died in 2000 when Fergie decided to pull out for a season.

The follow seasons mangers of the big clubs used the competition to test new talent. Hence, it's not a reflection of the best team/s.

PhlegmyMoses

The Pontiac wrote: »

In fairness, no one cares about the FA Cup anymore. It died in 2000 when Fergie decided to pull out for a season.

The follow seasons mangers of the big clubs used the competition to test new talent. Hence, it's not a reflection of the best team/s.

As a United fan, I'd have killed for an FA Cup win last season. And by win I mean one actual game.

Marty McFly

The Pontiac wrote: »

In fairness, no one cares about the FA Cup anymore. It died in 2000 when Fergie decided to pull out for a season.

The follow seasons mangers of the big clubs used the competition to test new talent. Hence, it's not a reflection of the best team/s.

Strange that since every team last season played strong teams in it.

The Pontiac

Marty McFly wrote: »

Strange that since every team last season played strong teams in it.

So Hull will be contesting for the league this season then?

Marty McFly

The Pontiac wrote: »

So Hull will be contesting for the league this season then?

Bravo try harder.

Look back through the qualifying rounds and tell me top teams didn't play there best team?

You'll even find Arsenal knocked out a full strength Liverpool team along the way.

Either your trying to troll or have no clue either way your failing

The Pontiac

Marty McFly wrote: »

Bravo try harder.

Look back through the qualifying rounds and tell me top teams didn't play there best team?

You'll even find Arsenal knocked out a full strength Liverpool team along the way.

Either your trying to troll or have no clue either way your failing

Wigan were in the 2013 final, does that not tell you something?

Marty McFly

The Pontiac wrote: »

Wigan were in the 2013 final, does that not tell you something?

Ooh look my other argument was proven wrong I'll try another tact and avoid the flaws that were pointed out in my original post.

Some say that is the beauty of cup football.

Arsenal and United are joint top winners of the F.A cup since top teams don't take it seriously two of the most successful clubs have won it a lot of times.

niallo27

gosplan wrote: »

How much then?

7 euro 40. Maybe I was a bit harsh on arsenal after a few scoops, I just can't understand why people are saying arsenal are guaranteed to challenge. What has changed from the last few years. All the teams around them are getting stronger.

niallo27

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

You could make a much better argument for Liverpool dropping out than Arsenal

Saying Arsenal will drop out is unfounded IMO, people have been saying it almost 20 years


Edit: I can't believe I actually have to say the above when Liverpool have finished 8th and 7th in the past 3 years.

Yes you could argue that but why is the possibility of arsenal falling out of the top 4 so unrealistic to people. I mean if van gal was in charge last year there is every chance arsenal would have come 5th.

Milkers

Paj wrote: »

Nothing has changed?
New physio
New fitness coach (ten years with the german national team)
new alexis sanchez
Debuchy upgrade over sagna
Calum chambers
David ospina

Don't forget we were 5 points behind second last season.
I don't expected arsenal to challenge, Chelsea are too strong, but to dismiss us from the top four is foolish and has been done before over the past seventeen seasons. Resulting in broken guarantees.

Yes these changes and signings have sent shockwaves throughout the Premier League. Real statements of intent. Pellegrini and Mourinho are totally ****ting it now.

Hidalgo

niallo27 wrote: »

7 euro 40. Maybe I was a bit harsh on arsenal after a few scoops, I just can't understand why people are saying arsenal are guaranteed to challenge. What has changed from the last few years. All the teams around them are getting stronger.

Are liverpool really stronger minus Suarez?
Only time will tell. Arsenal themselves should be stronger with the addition of Sanchez

Marty McFly

niallo27 wrote: »

7 euro 40. Maybe I was a bit harsh on arsenal after a few scoops, I just can't understand why people are saying arsenal are guaranteed to challenge. What has changed from the last few years. All the teams around them are getting stronger.

Well last year we finished 7pts of top, led the league more than anyone else ( I know that count for feck all at the end of the season) but Arsenal really only tailed of when we lost 3 key players for a simultaneous sustained period in Ramsey , Walcott and Ozil.

We were weak in DM which all indications show were looking to do something about it have brought in Sanchez and two other solid signings so far with more to come along with a new well respected fitness coach who can hopefully sort our injury issues.

We're more likely to challenge than drop out the top 4.

Paj

Milkers wrote: »

Yes these changes and signings have sent shockwaves throughout the Premier League. Real statements of intent. Pellegrini and Mourinho are totally ****ting it now.

Just showing your lack of knowledge. Arsenal losing key players to injury too often and for too long are major issues. Should be solved now with these additions

gosplan

niallo27 wrote: »

7 euro 40. Maybe I was a bit harsh on arsenal after a few scoops, I just can't understand why people are saying arsenal are guaranteed to challenge. What has changed from the last few years. All the teams around them are getting stronger.

They're not guaranteed to challenge. They're probably going to improve a bit though.

Last year they finished 7 points off the winner - which was also the avg premiership points winning total.

I'd imagine that if we get lucky with injuries, we'll be 3 or 4 points better off, which may or may not be enough to challenge.

You shouldn't post when drunk btw, not if you're going to start 'guaranteeing' where people will finish.

It's quite clear you have an Arsenal hate and don't really base te arguments on anything objective or rational.

niallo27

gosplan wrote: »

They're not guaranteed to challenge. They're probably going to improve a bit though.

Last year they finished 7 points off the winner - which was also the avg premiership points winning total.

I'd imagine that if we get lucky with injuries, we'll be 3 or 4 points better off, which may or may not be enough to challenge.

You shouldn't post when drunk btw, not if you're going to start 'guaranteeing' where people will finish.

It's quite clear you have an Arsenal hate and don't really base te arguments on anything objective or rational.

Hate is a very strong word. Every year people say arsenal will challenge. New players we were unlucky with injuries last year. I don't see what's going change this year. The same injury prone players are there. You can't just say you hate arsenal just because some has a go at your team.

Marty McFly

niallo27 wrote: »

Hate is a very strong word. Every year people say arsenal will challenge. New players we were unlucky with injuries last year. I don't see what's going change this year. The same injury prone players are there. You can't just say you hate arsenal just because some has a go at your team.

Same injury prone players still there? It was Ozil first season last season and apart from a broken leg Ramsey is not injury prone.

Walcott is but as has been said new fitness coach has been brought in so a lot is being pinned on him. Also it's been a long time since people said Arsenal would challenge last year was the first time in years it was even mentioned

Plus as I said Arsenal are more likely to challenge than to drop out of the top 4 history back this up despite claims by many every year Arsenal will drop out.

So you going to back up your "guarantee" or was it all talk?

niallo27

Marty McFly wrote: »

Same injury prone players still there? It was Ozil first season last season and apart from a broken leg Ramsey is not injury prone.

Walcott is but as has been said new fitness coach has been brought in so a lot is being pinned on him. Also it's been a long time since people said Arsenal would challenge last year was the first time in years it was even mentioned

Plus as I said Arsenal are more likely to challenge than to drop out of the top 4 history back this up despite claims by many every year Arsenal will drop out.

So you going to back up your "guarantee" or was it all talk?

Ok I'll guarantee it so.

Marty McFly

niallo27 wrote: »

Ok I'll guarantee it so.

Grand, since you can guarantee it how much? Looser donates money to the charity of winners choice?

niallo27

Marty McFly wrote: »

Grand, since you can guarantee it how much? Looser donates money to the charity of winners choice?

Ok 7 euro 40 to the charity of other persons choice.

niallo27

niallo27 wrote: »

Ok 7 euro 40 to the charity of other persons choice.

Skylinehead

niallo27 wrote: »

Hate is a very strong word. Every year people say arsenal will challenge. New players we were unlucky with injuries last year. I don't see what's going change this year. The same injury prone players are there. You can't just say you hate arsenal just because some has a go at your team.

And equally, every year, people say Arsenal will drop out of the top 4 at the expense of Spurs/Liverpool/Everton. Still waiting...

gosplan

niallo27 wrote: »

Hate is a very strong word. Every year people say arsenal will challenge. New players we were unlucky with injuries last year. I don't see what's going change this year. The same injury prone players are there. You can't just say you hate arsenal just because some has a go at your team.

But you didn't say they wouldn't challenge. You guaranteed they'd drop out of the top 4.

You're clearly not basing that on anything rational so I'm assuming after a drink or two an irrational dislike or hatred of Arsenal comes out.

... Unless you've another explanation that is?

Marty McFly

niallo27 wrote: »

Ok 7 euro 40 to the charity of other persons choice.

Make it 20/30 Euro?

gosplan

niallo27 wrote: »

Hate is a very strong word. Every year people say arsenal will challenge. New players we were unlucky with injuries last year. I don't see what's going change this year. The same injury prone players are there. You can't just say you hate arsenal just because some has a go at your team.

Btw every year someone also says humans walked with dinosaurs and the holocaust didn't happen.

It's been a long long time since anyone with a clue tipped arsenal to challenge.

In fact on the balance you're completly wrong as the majority of pundits have been tipping them to drop out of the top four.

Have a go if you want but don't try and disguise it.

There is one club famous for talking about 'our year' though.

niallo27

gosplan wrote: »

Btw every year someone also says humans walked with dinosaurs and the holocaust didn't happen.

It's been a long long time since anyone with a clue tipped arsenal to challenge.

In fact on the balance you're completly wrong as the majority of pundits have been tipping them to drop out of the top four.

Have a go if you want but don't try and disguise it.

There is one club famous for talking about 'our year' though.

There is posts in this thread saying arsenal will challenge.

niallo27

Marty McFly wrote: »

Make it 20/30 Euro?

20 quid so.

Knex*

gosplan wrote: »

Btw every year someone also says humans walked with dinosaurs and the holocaust didn't happen.

It's been a long long time since anyone with a clue tipped arsenal to challenge.

In fact on the balance you're completly wrong as the majority of pundits have been tipping them to drop out of the top four.

Have a go if you want but don't try and disguise it.

There is one club famous for talking about 'our year' though.

Its been a while since I've seen as bizarre a football related analogy, as you comparing niallo to holocaust deniers.

Christ, gosplan!

The Pontiac

Marty McFly wrote: »

Ooh look my other argument was proven wrong I'll try another tact and avoid the flaws that were pointed out in my original post.

Some say that is the beauty of cup football.

Arsenal and United are joint top winners of the F.A cup since top teams don't take it seriously two of the most successful clubs have won it a lot of times.

And you still don't see the change in trend in the last 20 yrs?

Portsmouth, Wigan Athletic, Stoke City and Hull all made the final in the last 5 yrs.

But don't lose this argument - come back with another smartass comment instead of having a mature debate.

And no, no one with half a brain believes it is half as competitive as it once was, when it was the best domestic cup in the world.

Tssk

Well liverpool will need another signing or 2-Remy has failed a medical and the deal is off

shadowcomplex

I'm a United fan , have a bet with 2 lads in work who are Liverpool fans that United will finish above Liverpool . 40 euro each