Ireland at the 41st World Chess Olympiad Tromsø 2014

brianhere

Sam's opponent, fortunately for him, swapped queen's so now its anybody's game. Baburin has so many attacking options now its crazy, although there is no material advantage he has nonetheless destroyed his opponent really. Mark has become a sacrificeaholic, this time a pawn, I guess it will work but risky? Colm is motoring nicely and I think might win alright.

reunion

Look like Colm will drop the extra pawn and it should be level. Sam's game looks level too.

Baburin and Heidenfeld look like they will win.

Women's section: I'm not sure why Poornima didn't take the free pawn on move 21. She seems to be drawing but has chances.

Seems level for Hannah though I prefer her position.

Gearoidin and Karina seems like they will lose. So hopefully Hannah and Porrnima can pull a win and Gearoidin or Karina can get some points too!

brianhere

I think Colm might come up with some way of saving that pawn, or attacking another one in exchange, yet? But yes I think Mark will win and I guess Sam will draw.

cdeb

Baburin and Heidenfeld confirmed as having won; 2-0 at the moment.

Sparks

Sparks wrote: »

That makes even less sense - an unrated FIDE player getting a fool's mate on a 1900 rated FIDE player?!?!?! Someone check if the leads on that board are all plugged in

Checking the site again, it seems they had the sides reversed originally; it now shows the 1900 FIDE player delivering Fool's Mate rather than receiving it which makes slightly more sense. Maybe the leads really did need jiggling!

brianhere

Yes and I still think Colm could add another win although I admit its tricky and I dont understand his last knight move (which is probably because its too deep for me!).

reunion

brianhere wrote: »

Yes and I still think Colm could add another win although I admit its tricky and I dont understand his last knight move (which is probably because its too deep for me!).

The site says Colm's opponent ran out of time..

Did he win? or is this another site error?

If his opponent still has time, it does look like he dropped a pawn.

cdeb

Sparks wrote: »

Checking the site again, it seems they had the sides reversed originally; it now shows the 1900 FIDE player delivering Fool's Mate rather than receiving it which makes slightly more sense. Maybe the leads really did need jiggling!

Still surprising though. You don't go to the Olympiad without knowing Fool's Mate. Certainly not on board 2. I remember in 2010, a Benildus player played against the Seychelles' board 4, who didn't seem to be aware what capturing was. Here's what happened. Good fun!

cdeb

reunion wrote: »

The site says Colm's opponent ran out of time..

Did he win? or is this another site error?

It does that every now and again. I think it gets confused around the 40-move mark in particular (because of the added 30 minutes)

I'd imagine they're still playing.

Edit - two big blunders from Colm, it seems. Must check into what he missed exactly. Moves 39 and 40; maybe time trouble played a part.

cdeb

Draws for Poormina and Sam.

Rook endings is hard.

brianhere

Presumably Colm agreed a draw too so that's 3-1 to us, a great result and hopefully they will go on from there!

cdeb

Colm has a clear advantage now; should be a 3½-½ win.

brianhere

Sorry spoke too soon so, then his opponent must have spent absolutely ages on that move or it was a glitch again?

cdeb

Glitch around the extra 30 minutes, I think. Seems common enough for some reason. Adding 30 to things must be complicated

Might get a 1-3 defeat in the women's, though looking more like ½-3½. Depends if Karina can hold on a pawn down.

Zugszwang

Daly is winning. As regards his "blunders" on move 39 and 40, that's technically correct given the Stockfish evaluations, but the position was very tricky to play for both sides and I think his finishing is quite smooth.

Poor Sam. His plan culminating in the Bxg2 tactic looked like it would give him wriggle room to play for a win, but it didn't. It's just not been his tournament so far.

cdeb

Karina takes a draw by repetition; 3-1 the final result against Chile. More or less according to ratings.

brianhere

It's up now, Colm won so 3 1/2 to 1/2 and a great result! Colm's was the same as the last day in that he wobbled a bit about the 40 mark I think, meaning he could have kept pressing at that point but retreated a bit too soon? Whereas the final few moves were inch perfect. Sam must be suffering from déjà vu at this stage because his games seem to end much the same way!

So far Colm and Sam, the current and former Irish champions, remain unbeaten.

cdeb

Another weak team in round 5; Jamaica, whose top board is 2164. Really should be a 4-0 (and I know whitewashes are hard!)

Palestine for the women's team; also weak, with a 1410 on board 1. So hopefully looking at two 4-0s to start moving us up the table.

Aims at this stage really have to be getting Sam back to breakeven in terms of rating points, and a title for Diana. The latter requires just a 50% score I think?

brianhere

It may be blasphemy to say this but I don't think that getting norms for an individual should even be a priority for an Irish team? There are other competitions they could go to to get that aren't there whereas this is the biggest, and only every two years, Irish team chess event? I think it should only be about the team and getting the best overall result that they can...

cdeb

You could look at it that way alright.

I just guess that as we're a fairly mundane, stuck in the middle, nation in these things, a good 50th place finish isn't much different to a poor 70th place, whereas a title is more notable. I'm unbeaten against titled players I think. A draw against a CM and a WCM, and a win against two WCMs.

(Actually, you can add in a win against Poormina, a win and draw against David Fitzsimons and a 60+ move defeat against Sam Collins, all before they were titled.)

In conclusion - yay for more titled players I could maybe sneak a result off!

Sparks

Coming home with the first Irish-born GM would be the best result the team could have gotten. I mean, they're sixty-second in the seeding and the top ten teams are entirely composed of GMs whose lowest rating is higher than our team's sole GM's rating. A measure of pragmatism and realism is called for here. If they pushed as hard as they could competitively, and moved up twenty places from seeding (and I think we're into the realm of fiction there), then on their return home, outside of the chess community nobody would notice (seriously, they don't know they're gone, why would they notice their return?).


But you come home with Ireland's first native GM and you're on the six-one news and that raises awareness levels and that makes funding easier to find and makes it that bit easier to get ISC recognition and so on. That's worth more than being ranked forty-second, in just about every way.

cdeb

Brief bit on the Fool's Mate game here (in Norwegian; let google translate the page), but no real answers as to what happened. It seems the arbiters are looking into the game to see if anything untoward happened - either the player was messing (possibly helping someone get a step closer a title?) or throwing the game for another reason.

Can't imagine board 2 of Zimbabwe v Togo in the Women's Chess Olympiad draws huge bets down the bookies.

brianhere

But you say its about the grandmaster title etc but any Irish Olympiad I have been following has gone the same way with all the talk of shuffling boards around so x or y can get a norm and I think its a mentality that is devaluing the Irish effort here. Can you get a norm even at Bunratty these days? Why use this competition like that, I don't see other teams talking that way?

I think they should stamp it out completely and say you cannot change boards, as in play people and not others, for that reason fullstop. I think its a team event and you are trying to get the best result.

The Olympiad is definitely the standard that everybody uses to judge where Irish chess is at, what other one is there? I don't think having an Irish grandmaster is going to be six-one news to be honest, whereas if we ever beat a leading team at the Olympiad I think it would be a headline event and its always possible someday.

Thats of course while I hope, and expect, Sam to get the title soon enough.

Sparks

brianhere wrote: »

I think its a team event and you are trying to get the best result.

Exactly, and the best result here - for Irish Chess - would be Sam getting his title. If that means the rest have to take one for the team on this outing... well, frankly, that's why the only I in team is in the A-hole.

I don't think having an Irish grandmaster is going to be six-one news to be honest

In the middle of silly season.
When they're desperate for any good home news at all.
Yeah, I'm gonna disagree with your assessment there.

whereas if we ever beat a leading team at the Olympiad I think it would be a headline event and its always possible someday.

Shy of picking a fistfight with Magnus Carlsen in front of the cameras, I don't think we're beating any of the top teams for the next few years at least...

brianhere

Well even if winning the GM was going to be headline news it would probably be bigger news if it happened at somewhere like Bunratty where RTE could film it hence we can wait till then. Messing around this team like that I think is devaluing Irish chess a bit, we are going to be judged on this result. For the next two years Irish chess is 50th in the world or 110th or whatever and yes I think that does matter.

Sparks

brianhere wrote: »

Well even if winning the GM was going to be headline news it would probably be bigger news if it happened at somewhere like Bunratty where RTE could film it hence we can wait till then.

Yeah, if we could predict it that well, we wouldn't be talking about a competition, would we?

Messing around this team like that I think is devaluing Irish chess a bit, we are going to be judged on this result.

By whom, exactly?

For the next two years Irish chess is 50th in the world or 110th or whatever and yes I think that does matter.

Jump off the top of the empire state building, then jump off the 50th floor and tell me if there's any real difference between 100th and 50th

Unless we're in the top 10 or so, it's not news. A new GM on the other hand, especially the first one born here, that's news. And if you want to grow Irish Chess, instead of just pushing one or two people, that's something to seek.

cdeb

brianhere wrote: »

Can you get a norm even at Bunratty these days?

Not in the main tournament anyway; never could. It's not FIDE rated if nothing else. Think it's possible in the Classic though.

brianhere wrote: »

I don't think having an Irish grandmaster is going to be six-one news to be honest, whereas if we ever beat a leading team at the Olympiad I think it would be a headline event and its always possible someday.

I don't know if either are likely to make the news tbh. Did Sam's draw with Grischuk make it four years ago? That was one of the biggest results ever for Irish chess.

I'll blaspheme too and say I don't think titles are a huge deal either way for Irish chess. If someone's interested, they can find their local club very easily on the internet now. But I think - in Leinster anyway - there's still a huge disconnect between various sections of the game. The Schools' leagues have no link with the Leinster Junior Championships that I can see, and neither have a link with the Leinster leagues. There's no beginners tournament for adults looking to take up the game. There's loads of parents standing around rooms during junior tournaments when they could be being encouraged to play as well. All that's silly (and why I wanted to run for LCU committee, though I've just gone through the Junior Committee to try bring about changes there instead)

Don't want to come across like I'm dismissing your view outright btw! Just two slightly different way of looking at things. Obviously finishing as high up as we can is always nice.

cdeb

brianhere wrote: »

For the next two years Irish chess is 50th in the world or 110th or whatever and yes I think that does matter.

Actually, this is one thing I will disagree with you on. Where did we finish in the last Olympiad? I can't remember. In fact, on this thread, I referred to Sam's draw with Grischuk and got the year wrong (it wasn't 2012, it was 2010). Hasn't affected my game or that of anyone else I know.

I do agree news coverage can make a difference to the game alright. Fischer v Spassky is the best example, when the LCU went up to eight divisions and 100+ teams I think (per Denis Dempsey at the LCU AGM this year)

Sparks

cdeb wrote: »

I don't know if either are likely to make the news tbh. Did Sam's draw with Grischuk make it four years ago? That was one of the biggest results ever for Irish chess.

Yeah, but it's hard to sell a headline like "Our best (native) player got a draw with this really successful Russian grand master - no, not Kasparov, a different one you haven't heard of before".

If the general public knew much about chess and its history and the current people playing it, then yeah, you'd make the news with that story but you also wouldn't need to. Instead they know of names like Fischer and Kasparov, but they probably heard of Kasparov for the Deep Blue matches and thought he was still the world champion until they heard of Carlsen and they probably heard of Carlsen through the GQ modelling contract first and only remember him because he looks like he can't grow a beard yet It's a heavy understatement to say the scene surrounding the game is not all that well known outside of those playing it (and to be fair, its not even that well known inside those playing it, it's only a small core of people who really know the scene - I had to google Grischuk and I'll bet I wasn't alone).

On the other hand, "Ireland's first grand master" is a headline everyone can at least pretend to understand and they'll know what you're talking about (even if it's a bit of a slap for Baburin). And in the middle of silly season, with everything down to the Healy-Raes yelling impotently at burglars making it into the papers, that headline would be eaten alive by the media at this time of year, and even after silly season ends, it's still a fairly easy sell.

Sparks

Meanwhile, today's games are (allegedly ) up here...

cdeb

From Jonathan O'Connor's diary - may explain why the clocks go weird every now and again -

The clocks only add the extra 30 minutes once all the first 90 minutes have run out.

Seems a fairly pointless and confusing system. Jonathan says Colm imagined himself in time trouble against Sudan as a result, which cost half a point.

brianhere

Yes and its understandable that he would get confused. When the heat is on and the clock is going down I am sure a lot of people will be racking their brains trying to remember was the 30 minutes added on yet or not. Overall I am sure it is very well organised but there seems to be a lot of technical stuff going wrong. The website crashes all the time on me, and when it isn't crashing sometimes its seizes and you get no moves for 10 minutes and five moves in a burst etc. Madness but ah well...

Sparks

Not seen the website crash yet. It's probably a bit much for old PCs but feck, you'd need a very old PC indeed...

brianhere

Well anyway today Baburin is looking okish but his opponent has two bishops and maybe a bit more room.

Mark's opponent also has two bishops but one of his looks very restrictive whereas Mark has lots of space and maybe about to launch an attack on the king. Actually its another knight sacrifice, gosh, well it worked spectacularly the last time so who knows! (Mark's opponent is not taking it, he is mighty suspicious!)

Alex Lopez's opponent is playing very open which might count against him as it goes on? But right now its good for him, he has plenty of space and to a degree attacking options.

Sam looks ok but on the otherhand so does his opponent

So for what its worth I'd say nearly all boards are about equal with only Mark maybe about to charge. Unfortunately we are definitely not pulling away as of yet, I hope its not another banana skin!

cdeb

I've found it can be very slow at times. And it has crashed once or twice, though nothing a refresh hasn't solved. Entirely possible that's my computer though (a five-year-old laptop)

Over the board, Hannah and Diana are close to won. Mark has a nice position, and the other five games are all level enough really. Mark's opponent can't take the knight because of 1. ... PxN? 2. ef (and the rook hits the queen) Q moves 3. PxB+ and material is level, but that bishop is a more important piece than the knight at the moment. I presume; obviously these guys are slightly better than me, so maybe there's stuff in there I've missed!

Computer giving us slightly worse on the other three boards (Sam -1 or so), which is slightly worrying given our form to date alright, but there's a long way to go yet.

brianhere

Sorry my mistake again, Mark's opponent coulnt take the knight anyway...or at least would concede a bishop if he did. But that means Mark is pressing quite hard now against his opponent's kingside.

EnPassant

Sparks wrote: »

Not seen the website crash yet. It's probably a bit much for old PCs but feck, you'd need a very old PC indeed...

It crashed a lot for me too ... anyway, should a world tournament not cater for poor countries using recycled PCs?

Looking good for the women's team also: https://chess24.com/en/olympiad2014/live/olympiad2014women/5/62/2

checknraise

Sam is generally so well prepared I am finding it hard to believe he wasnt aware that Nc3 is the main move instead of Nd2. His position is just terrible now tho. Nc3 give white a great game in my opinion and was considered close to a forced win a few years ago.

On the bright side Mark Heidenfeld has a great position.

cdeb

Hannah wins; Diana won't be long following.

Edit - Diana has won. 2-0 there.

Sparks

EnPassant wrote: »

should a world tournament not cater for poor countries using recycled PCs?

Commercially, probably not...

brianhere

Yes the computer is spluttering all kinds of abuse at Sam right now but I don't know, its early days yet? But certainly he doesn't look to be winning and yet I think all the Jamaicans are heavily outranked rating wise...

Sparks

The computer really didn't like that Rd4 from Sam, but his opponent must have, taking all of 33 seconds to respond.
(Nice touch, having the move times in the PGN btw)

brianhere

Ok even my untutored eye is now getting it, I think Sam's position is a bit worse now. He is defending three isolated pawns and it doesn't look easy...

The computer doesn't like Baburin's position either but I cannot see it as being too bad myself (probably cos Im missing stuff!) Overall outside Mark we aren't doing too well really...

cdeb

I think the computer doesn't like the d6 hole in Baburin's position; a rook on there could be awkward, and if it's taken, you get a pawn in there, quickly backed up by c5. Not nice.

Sudan all over? :eek:

Edit - now it's showing all major pieces being swapped off, and entering a 2B+6 v B, N+6 endgame, where Alex's knight is really awkward.

Hard to see either Sam or Alex having winning chances at present anyway. Though the computer says Sam's opponent has let him right back in the game. I guess this can happen when you're playing people 400 points lower-rated. (Assuming the computer is to be trusted of course)

Ficheall

cdeb wrote: »

From Jonathan O'Connor's diary - may explain why the clocks go weird every now and again -


Seems a fairly pointless and confusing system. Jonathan says Colm imagined himself in time trouble against Sudan as a result, which cost half a point.

That's the system in the league matches here in the UK too - time added after both players have used all their time. Stupid system.

cdeb

Ficheall wrote: »

That's the system in the league matches here in the UK too - time added after both players have used all their time. Stupid system.

I actually can't even conceive of the logic behind it tbh.

Makes genuinely no sense.

(Same with match points instead of game points at events like this, but that's another rant! )

brianhere

"(Assuming the computer is to be trusted of course)"

Yes because now his opponent's queen is attacking all three of SAm's isolated pawns simultaenously? Still maybe its right I guess but also SAm is getting bad on time too.
But yeah I dont know howm and Baburin will win so we could be entering Sudan territory although Alex Lopez is not doing badly and Mark will probably win...

cdeb

brianhere wrote: »

Yes because now his opponent's queen is attacking all three of SAm's isolated pawns simultaenously? Still maybe its right I guess but also SAm is getting bad on time too.

Sam has sacced one of those weak pawns and looks like he'll either pick up on in return or get good counterplay with two major pieces on the seventh. He may even be threatening Rxf7 at the moment. Got to be careful of that pawn on c4 though.

Time is ok; 10 minutes plus increments, so 15 minutes to make the control, when he gets an extra half-hour. Not lots of time, but not quite a scramble yet.

Sparks

Funny, Qa5 was the first thing I thought of looking at that board and the first thing I thought wasn't a great idea because even Rb2 neuters it. Sam seems to have gone for a more aggressive neutering though and nearly gotten a whole kidney...

brianhere

Yes fair enough and he has shored up two of those pawns via the queen and he might attack too with queen and rook together on the 7 line at some point?