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Are lazy people using strength workouts

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    #32
    long range shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,493 ✭✭✭long range shooter


    Blackpanther95 wrote: »
    I disagree, even there is a limit NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO!

    I agree,more training is actually better.
    It's better to train 6 times a week than 3.only then with half as many sets as you would do 3 times a week.


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    #33
    neil_
    Registered Users Posts: 274 ✭✭neil_


    Blackpanther95 wrote: »
    So strict curls aren't strength? I thought they were part of powerlifting competitions. Good point, a structured strength plan might require more (out-of-the-gym) work. No, the 1 hour curl 6 dropset thing was just one exercise, we usually do 3 exercises of biceps. The rest are usually supersets though rather than true dropsets. After which I feel the skin around my arms is what stopping them from growing (super-pump haha). Also it seems that the key to growing with strength is to eat like 10,000+ calories a day, most of the record holders are 100+ kg and the guys I see don't put that work in. I guess you could say that strength done properly isn't laziness at all, but I'm talking about the people who claim they want to look 'swole' and then just do this quick strength workout (and not seasoned powerlifters).

    Also just to clarify, I do train legs, I just drink saltwater or peanuts (salted) beforehand to stop the cramps. I never got cramps when I was doing strength though. Also I usually train legs for around two hours (3 times a week) so I don't skip on that department anyways!

    I think you you need to read up on what strength training and powerlifting are actually about... For starters, there are weight classes in powerlifting. Strict curl is not a powerlifting movement. Whether you do 2 reps or 10 reps is not as important as some people make it out to be, provided you're getting enough volume altogether and increasing the weight over time. Doing an exercise until you actually cannot move the muscle anymore is very rarely a good idea regardless of what you're training for.

    But I do agree that in most gyms there are a lot of people around who probably aren't getting much out of their workouts, whether it's through laziness or ignorance. I don't think any particular style of training is to blame, some people just want the results without realising they have to put a lot of effort in to get them. In the immortal and wise words of Ronald Dean Coleman, eight times Mr. Olympia winner: "Errybody wanna be a bodybuilder, don't nobody wanna lift this heavy ass weight."


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    #34
    generic2012
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,013 ✭✭✭generic2012


    Video posted by Layne Norton yesterday evening. Watched it and couldn't help but think of BlankPanther95 :'), I find it hard to believe that this was a thread started for genuine reasons but it's a relevant vid!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD3KxvQ9_KY

    We're all going to make it braaaaahs!


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    #35
    long range shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,493 ✭✭✭long range shooter


    i would rather try the myo reps for volume and strenght.
    its proven allready as the best training for both.

    http://borgefagerli.com/myo-reps-in-english/

    http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/reignite-progress-with-new-science/


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    #36
    Blackpanther95
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Blackpanther95


    long range shooter wrote: »
    i would rather try the myo reps for volume and strenght.
    its proven allready as the best training for both.

    http://borgefagerli.com/myo-reps-in-english/

    http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/reignite-progress-with-new-science/

    What do you mean by proven? Arnold's split is online, and he's regarded as the second best of all time (after good ol' Ronnie). Its kind of strange that people view what a scientist says as proven versus what the best say.

    Personally I think if you want to be Arnold or Ronnie big, you gotta train like them (and do WHATEVER it takes) or else you won't be as big. I see you posting videos where the guy talking is like 200 Lbs, why not listen to the 300 Lbs ers ?

    Also does anybody really bother with weight classes, in bodybuilding the main event is always the 220+, the others are just kiddy events, I'd imagine the record holders in powerlifting are all 220+ (I obviously mean records independent of the lifters weight)


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    #37
    long range shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,493 ✭✭✭long range shooter


    Blackpanther95 wrote: »
    What do you mean by proven? Arnold's split is online, and he's regarded as the second best of all time (after good ol' Ronnie). Its kind of strange that people view what a scientist says as proven versus what the best say.

    Personally I think if you want to be Arnold or Ronnie big, you gotta train like them (and do WHATEVER it takes) or else you won't be as big. I see you posting videos where the guy talking is like 200 Lbs, why not listen to the 300 Lbs ers ?

    Well it depends on your goals,difference again between bodybuilding and powerlifting,and also your gens most of all.
    But this scientific program have helped many powelifters and bodybuildere for better gains.
    And the results for Carl yngvar Christensen speaks for itself.
    What videos are you referring to where it's 200 lbs guys?


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    #38
    Blackpanther95
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Blackpanther95


    long range shooter wrote: »
    Well it depends on your goals,difference again between bodybuilding and powerlifting,and also your gens most of all.
    But this scientific program have helped many powelifters and bodybuildere for better gains.
    And the results for Carl yngvar Christensen speaks for itself.
    What videos are you referring to where it's 200 lbs guys?

    generic 2012's one. Well he's heavier than 200, but Id say definitely >250


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    #39
    long range shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,493 ✭✭✭long range shooter


    Blackpanther95 wrote: »
    generic 2012's one. Well he's heavier than 200, but Id say definitely >250

    Ok yes Probaly in the 230-240 range i would say


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    #40
    Blackpanther95
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Blackpanther95


    long range shooter wrote: »
    Ok yes Probaly in the 230-240 range i would say
    He's not even cut aswell. But just to clarify, I'm not giving out, they have got great physiques and probably give it socks in the gym, but I'd just prefer to 'learn from the best' so to speak.


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    #41
    long range shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,493 ✭✭✭long range shooter


    Blackpanther95 wrote: »
    He's not even cut aswell. But just to clarify, I'm not giving out, they have got great physiques and probably give it socks in the gym, but I'd just prefer to 'learn from the best' so to speak.

    Offcourse i understand that,i myself prefer a more scientific approach towards results,cause i dont think all the big boys are completetly clean if you know what i mean.


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    #42
    Blackpanther95
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Blackpanther95


    long range shooter wrote: »
    Offcourse i understand that,i myself prefer a more scientific approach towards results,cause i dont think all the big boys are completetly clean if you know what i mean.

    Probably next to none, someone should do research to see whether certain training techniques are more or less effective depending on the use of performance enhancing drugs. Due to guys like Rob Riches, everyone started to believe that lifting heavy was the key for nattys but now that he tested positive people still think that heavy is best.


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    #43
    generic2012
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,013 ✭✭✭generic2012


    Blackpanther95 wrote: »
    He's not even cut aswell. But just to clarify, I'm not giving out, they have got great physiques and probably give it socks in the gym, but I'd just prefer to 'learn from the best' so to speak.

    http://www.unleashedbeasts.com/gallery/layne-norton-gallery/
    I'd say he's pretty cut. I'm more interested in his strength though.

    He's Elite Raw. Best Squat - 617lb, Best Bench - 386lb, Best Deadlift - 700lb, Best Total - 1680lb. Competes in drug tested events too, not saying he is or isn't natural though!


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    #44
    Blackpanther95
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Blackpanther95


    generic2012 wrote: »
    http://www.unleashedbeasts.com/gallery/layne-norton-gallery/
    I'd say he's pretty cut. I'm more interested in his strength though.

    He's Elite Raw. Best Squat - 617lb, Best Bench - 386lb, Best Deadlift - 700lb, Best Total - 1680lb. Competes in drug tested events too, not saying he is or isn't natural though!

    Didn't CT Fletcher bench 725lbs. More than this guys deadlift. What about strict curl. Don't know anything about powerlifting but CT is always saying how he has the record for a 225lb strict curl (unbelievable)


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    #45
    long range shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,493 ✭✭✭long range shooter


    Blackpanther95 wrote: »
    Probably next to none, someone should do research to see whether certain training techniques are more or less effective depending on the use of performance enhancing drugs. Due to guys like Rob Riches, everyone started to believe that lifting heavy was the key for nattys but now that he tested positive people still think that heavy is best.

    Yeah true,its hard to stay on top they say,and many have gone down that road unfortunately.
    But I am sure there some good gens left in us,so at least we can get some good gains,lol.


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    #46
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,335 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Blackpanther95 wrote: »
    Didn't CT Fletcher bench 725lbs. More than this guys deadlift. What about strict curl. Don't know anything about powerlifting but CT is always saying how he has the record for a 225lb strict curl (unbelievable)
    I think you are getting a bit mixed up. Powerlifting is Squat, bench, deadlift. The strict curl is not really part of powerlifting events. I’d be a nightmare trying to standardise what passes for a legal lift. Squats are bad enough as it is.
    The curl is the ultimate bro-lift, so of course there have been curls competitions in the past, probably still are somewhere. At one of these comps in the early 90s CT Fletcher did 225lbs with his back against a wall. There’s video of guys curling with 275lbs-315 for reps also, but not completely strict. Without s standardised curl, it’s all a load of nonsense.
    CT Fletcher says his best bench was 650 in comp btw, 705 in the gym.

    What are you trying to achieve, size, strength or both?
    Personally I think if you want to be Arnold or Ronnie big, you gotta train like them (and do WHATEVER it takes) or else you won't be as big. I see you posting videos where the guy talking is like 200 Lbs, why not listen to the 300 Lbs ers ?
    You could train like them for years and not get close to their size or condition. Training is only a quarter of the story.
    FWIW, Arnie wasn't a 300lbs, not even close. Going by the last sentence, we shouldn't listen to him.


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    #47
    papu
    Registered Users Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭papu


    Mellor wrote: »

    You could train like them for years and not get close to their size or condition. Training is only a quarter of the story.
    FWIW, Arnie wasn't a 300lbs, not even close. Going by the last sentence, we shouldn't listen to him.

    Listen to smart people , not big people .
    This guys video is very good on the topic , there is no way you're going to be able to achieve what people do when they're enhanced.
    They can do whatever they want and still get huge , so they each put their own unique marketing spin on it and sell it as the way to get huge , sure ... if you spends 100s of thousands on drugs.
    Powerlifting to win
    Training Natty vs. Enhanced: http://youtu.be/RRQVfIc_HvA


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    #48
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,335 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    papu wrote: »
    Listen to smart people , not big people .
    This guys video is very good on the topic...
    Powerlifting to win
    Training Natty vs. Enhanced: http://youtu.be/RRQVfIc_HvA

    I'm only 30 seconds in but he has just said that;
    "enhanced lifters can get away with training less but I don't believe that to be optimal, it just tends to be what happens in reality."

    If he thinks enhanced lifters train less than natural lifters I have serious doubts over how knowledgeable he could be on the subject. Not a good start, he has 10mins to improve his credibility though.


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    #49
    Blackpanther95
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Blackpanther95


    papu wrote: »
    Listen to smart people , not big people .
    This guys video is very good on the topic , there is no way you're going to be able to achieve what people do when they're enhanced.
    They can do whatever they want and still get huge , so they each put their own unique marketing spin on it and sell it as the way to get huge , sure ... if you spends 100s of thousands on drugs.
    Powerlifting to win
    Training Natty vs. Enhanced: http://youtu.be/RRQVfIc_HvA

    Ye I have to disagree as well. Getting huge is easy, just about any routine with good supplementation, nutrition (and "stuff") will get you there eventually. On the other hand to get big fast and to get big enough to win Mr. O. is a very different story.


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    #50
    papu
    Registered Users Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭papu


    Blackpanther95 wrote: »
    Ye I have to disagree as well. Getting huge is easy, just about any routine with good supplementation, nutrition (and "stuff") will get you there eventually. On the other hand to get big fast and to get big enough to win Mr. O. is a very different story.

    Well then you agree? Did you even watch the video? That's pretty much exactly what he said..


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    #51
    Blackpanther95
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Blackpanther95


    papu wrote: »
    Well then you agree? Did you even watch the video? That's pretty much exactly what he said..

    Woops- ye I agree.


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    #52
    Blackpanther95
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭Blackpanther95


    Actually, after watching even more, I super agree.


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    #53
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    As an aside, is there anything wrong with using a 8*3 routine? I'm looking to build strength primarily so I'm looking to almost fail on my last rep on the 3rd set. I've been told that's the best way to build strength rather then lean out?


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    #54
    generic2012
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,013 ✭✭✭generic2012


    .ak wrote: »
    As an aside, is there anything wrong with using a 8*3 routine? I'm looking to build strength primarily so I'm looking to almost fail on my last rep on the 3rd set. I've been told that's the best way to build strength rather then lean out?

    Lower Reps for strength but you'll need more sets than three if you want to make consistent progression. (This obviously depends on your training frequency and level of experience though). Diet is what will 'lean you out'.

    EDIT: And failing reps isn't usually conducive to consistent gains in strength.


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    #55
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Yeah what I meant by 'failing' is finding the right weight that you last rep of 8 on your third set is your maximum.


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