Ban on Boards.ie for what's said on Twitter

Agueroooo

I posted this on the soccer forum, it was deleted, and was advised to maybe post it here.
It seems in recent weeks for whatever reason that it's now possible to get banned from boards.ie for what is said on Twitter.

This is a direct cut and paste from the 'off topic' thread and it speaks for itself so I don't have to go into much more detail, but there is more on what exactly is going on over on the soccer forum for the more curious lurkers...

Lord TSC wrote: »

Lads, stepping in to end that discussion pretty quick.

If there's fears of trolling, if there's worries about users off site trying to organize problems on here, contact a mod. I don't fancy seeing a witch-hunt starting up on here, so that ends right now.

As I said, if you have fear or proof of any such things, get in touch with a mod but going public like this will only serve to make problems worse.

I hear you Lordy and I'm not questioning your moderation in anyway on this point, but my suggestion is that a line needs to be drawn on what is acceptable, have an open debate, change or add new rules etc.

It's a bit silly (imo) banning on here for stuff that is said on another site.

What next?
Treat what someone says on Twitter like the new rule about discussion/gloating on a topic in a different thread?

What someone says in work, Twitter, Pub etc should have no impact on their boards account.

You come on here and act the dick knowingly breaking the rules then off you go, and should be banned as far as I'm concerned.

But cross site banning will open up a whole different can of worms for you guys imo.

I can also (probably like you) already see some scapegoating occurring.

I probably should have sent this PM. If I have then please delete, but I do think it's an important issue that needs to be debated openly.

Mr E

Dav was pretty clear that this wasn't up for discussion.

I'm closing the thread because this isn't up for discussion. I'm sickened that it even has to come to this.

Mr E

OK we've decided to reopen this for discussion. We don't mind Twitter or other discussion sites, but when those discussions lead to organisation of bullying, orchestrated attempts to get mods or users banned, forum invasions, concerted trolling as revenge for a mod action, then we most definitely will take such conversations into account and will act on them on boards.

Griping, bellyaching and being disgruntled is fine. Disruption and detraction from other users' experience of boards is not.
If you use other sites to arrange these things then don't be surprised if we don't want you as part of our community.

gandalf

Thanks for reopening this.

I agree totally with stopping bullying etc on boards, having modded here in the past I am aware of some of the bad behaviour some users direct towards others and especially towards moderators.

However banning people based on their interactions on a third party site or social media platform is opening up a very slippery slope indeed.

The only other time I have seen banning occurring because of peoples interactions on third party sites was because of people using their own blogs to get around the rules on the politics forum. At least you could clearly identify the user getting around the rules using this and sanction them accordingly.

I for one would like to clarify how you intend to ensure that you are banning the correct person based on a third party profile that may differ from the one here?

On the soccer forum off topic thread there are posts indicating that doppelganger profiles have been set up on Twitter in the names of established regular posters on the forum.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91455563&postcount=685

How are you going to differentiate between these and the actual users should "dodgy" tweets appear about boards or exhibiting the behaviour that initiated this particular new direction?

As I said no problems with boards stopping bullying and nonsense just a bit concerned that initiating a blanket statement like that could lead to situations where boards users who are innocent of any wrongdoing are targeted incorrectly.

Will I Amnt

It never ceases to amaze me how a person's stance on a particular incident changes depending on who is involved.

So which is it Aguerooo? People shouldn't be banned for stuff said on Twitter or people should be banned for stuff said on Twitter?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=87573883&postcount=35

gandalf

So Will I Amnt rather than use this thread as a tool to get a dig at another user whats your opinion?

Should people be banned because of interactions on third party sites or social media platforms?

Agueroooo

Will I Amnt wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me how a person's stance on a particular incident changes depending on who is involved.

So which is it Aguerooo? People shouldn't be banned for stuff said on Twitter or people should be banned for stuff said on Twitter?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=87573883&postcount=35

again you completely miss the point of the post.

I've asked for clear rules and guides on what is acceptable, what can, or cannot be dragged across..do you not agree?

and again I stand by my point above (eg) If I go over to Twitter and racially abuse someone just cause I can get away with it over there amongst a similar group, then I do not expect to be welcomed back on here with open arms.

I stand corrected but It now seems by Davs post that a dangerous precedent has been set and I fear there may now be a lot of fishing going on Twitter (bogus accounts etc) and the screen grabs being sent to mods to get certain people banned for the most trivial of things (I am not talking about racial or personal abuse here) ...to me this should fall under the same rules as false reporting etc, and along with other things needs to be added, or current boards rules amended.

but hey just like usual you post something off the cuff and to me looking for a reaction.

Dav

It's very simple. I saw our mods being abused behind their backs by people who cause more work for them on the soccer forum. I saw plans to invade the other tribe's threads and start causing more stress. I respectfully suggest that when someone's planning on attacking this site, we should be acting on it.

We've taken this sort of action before several times in the past, and should we need to do so again in the future, we will. It's always been very clear cut and never done on a whim. We're not policing anything but our own corner of the internet, but when something else impacts on our site, we're not going to simply ignore it. If there is some action we can take here to prevent more abuse of our volunteers then we'll certainly do it.

Will I Amnt

gandalf wrote: »

So Will I Amnt rather than use this thread as a tool to get a dig at another user whats your opinion?

Should people be banned because of interactions on third party sites or social media platforms?

How is it a dig?
9 months ago the OP wanted someone banned from boards for something said on Twitter, now he is complaining that somebody got banned for something they said on Twitter. Do you not find that extremely hypocritical?

My view is this. If you want to abuse people from boards on Twitter, use the PM function or keep your profile private.
Putting it out in the public domain where others, including the subject of the abuse can come across it is not the same as talking to your mates down the pub or at work.

Will I Amnt

Agueroooo wrote: »

again you completely miss the point of the post.

I've asked for clear rules and guides on what is acceptable, what can, or cannot be dragged across..do you not agree?

and again I stand by my point above (eg) If I go over to Twitter and racially abuse someone just cause I can get away with it over there amongst a similar group, then I do not expect to be welcomed back on here with open arms.

I stand corrected but It now seems by Davs post that a dangerous precedent has been set and I fear there may now be a lot of fishing going on Twitter (bogus accounts etc) and the screen grabs being sent to mods to get certain people banned for the most trivial of things (I am not talking about racial or personal abuse here) ...to me this should fall under the same rules as false reporting etc, and along with other things needs to be added, or current boards rules amended.

but hey just like usual you post something off the cuff and to me looking for a reaction.

This is what you said.

"What someone says in work, Twitter, Pub etc should have no impact on their boards account."

That's more than just asking what should be allowed. That's your view and it has turned on it's head in 9 months. I haven't picked anything up wrong.

Agueroooo

fair enough Dav and I remember during the racial abuse thread on a certain @boardseye you said similar.

I just think that those willing to try and cause trouble need to also know the consequences.

make clear what's acceptable?

and those willing to sending/bombing screen grabs etc from Twitter to boards mods know that if bullying is suspected then that also gets treated the same.

simple things imo cause the current status quo is open to too much interpretation -good or bad.

Agueroooo

Will I Amnt wrote: »

This is what you said.

"What someone says in work, Twitter, Pub etc should have no impact on their boards account."

That's more than just asking what should be allowed. That's your view and it has turned on it's head in 9 months. I haven't picked anything up wrong.

I'm not getting into the usual bolloxology back and forth posts as we can both do without that.

but why did you decide not to quote the first line of my post/request?

I hear you Lordy and I'm not questioning your moderation in anyway on this point, but my suggestion is that a line needs to be drawn on what is acceptable, have an open debate, change or add new rules etc.

last word to you.

Will I Amnt

Agueroooo wrote: »

I'm not getting into the usual bolloxology back and forth posts as we can both do without that.

but why did you decide not to quote the first line of my post/request?


last word to you.

I quoted the most relevant part to the point I was making.
The part you just quoted is happening right now.

Agueroooo

Will I Amnt wrote: »

I quoted the most relevant part to the point I was making.
The part you just quoted is happening right now.

emm which was the whole point of my post yesterday, and the reason for this thread.

oops; last word

Dav

I did say that, but there was a lack of any clear evidence as to the identity of the @boardseye account, so there was nothing I was able to do at the time - I still don't know who was responsible, but if I did, I would take action against that person.

I'm not going to start making clearly defined rules for this - I can't. It's a case by case thing (like 90% of what I do here). But here's an idea for people who are worried - stop being a dick and you won't have any problems. Talking to your friends on a medium like Twitter or Facebook about how you're unhappy with a moderation decision is fine - there's nothing I would ever do to stop you if that's all it was. But when I'm seeing really strong abusive language being used about our volunteers as well as people talking about making more work for them by upsetting other parts of any of our communities, then I'm not going to sit and wait for that to happen before taking action.

Will I Amnt

Agueroooo wrote: »

emm which was the whole point of my post yesterday, and the reason for this thread.

oops; last word

Yes and you are getting the answers. The same answers you got in the other thread when you were making the opposite argument.

gandalf

Dav wrote: »

It's very simple. I saw our mods being abused behind their backs by people who cause more work for them on the soccer forum. I saw plans to invade the other tribe's threads and start causing more stress. I respectfully suggest that when someone's planning on attacking this site, we should be acting on it.

We've taken this sort of action before several times in the past, and should we need to do so again in the future, we will. It's always been very clear cut and never done on a whim. We're not policing anything but our own corner of the internet, but when something else impacts on our site, we're not going to simply ignore it. If there is some action we can take here to prevent more abuse of our volunteers then we'll certainly do it.

Hi Dav, thanks for clarifying this. Obviously just trying to clear this in my own mind here.

I suppose given the whole situation with "faked boardsie" twitter accounts being communicated on the off topic thread in Soccer there would have to be assurance that no action would be taken unless it can be shown that the "Off site" persona is 100% the same person as the boards.ie persona.

For the record not trying to cause problems here I just saw this as a very slippery slope for Boards.ie to make decisions on bannings based on off site interactions.

Bobeagleburger

Any chance the personal spat can be taken to PM? Nobody else wants to read it.


It's an intriguing subject and one that has cropped up a few times now. First the racial abuse and now the mod abuse.

Did anything come from the first as a matter of interest? I know one poster at least was banned from the second.

Not sure how people get the time to abuse people on Twitter tbh. This place is taxing enough!


Edit, just seen your reply Dav Re previous incident. Thanks

Will I Amnt

rarnes1 wrote: »

Any chance the personal spat can be taken to PM? Nobody else wants to read it.

It's not a spat. I asked him a question resulting in an exchange of posts, it's how a message board operates. There was nothing untoward in what either of us posted.

I think it was pretty relevant to the thread to point out that other contradictory post.

Soft Falling Rain

Firstly, I don't know the specifics of what happened and I don't want to know either. What I will say though is that I've known Nuri for a good few years on here and he is, IMO, a good guy. I still believe that.

But, speaking generally and as someone who used to mod on here, I would not be happy if I was getting grief on another platform such as twitter. As Dav alluded to, mods are volunteers, some giving a lot more time than they should too, but they do it because they love this place.

To pick on these people in such an underhanded manner is bang out of order and Boards are within their rights in protecting their interests (i.e. ensuring they don't lose good mods) in such circumstances.

Kunkka

Let's not pretend we don't know why this thread was made.

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

Firstly, I don't know the specifics of what happened and I don't want to know either. What I will say though is that I've known Nuri for a good few years on here and he is, IMO, a good guy. I still believe that.

You see this is an illusion. He came across as a nice chap in most circumstances(I thought this too initially) but to the mods & many others he was nothing but a pain in the arse. I've been subjected to unsolicited PMs from him accusing me of being another user on here and I am not the only one that has got these types of PMs. My only ever dealings with him directly where in this thread where I seen one of his MANY outbursts on this site http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77947019&postcount=1156 . I wasn't directly involved in this at all but I remembered it and when I seen him do it on MANY other forums while creating more work for mods for no reason but to feed his own ego I just completely lost respect for the guy. You'd think being a Liverpool fan myself I'd get along with the guy but I've easily seen through a lot of the stuff he's posted.

Add in all that he had done while on this site(that no one apart from the mods know to be honest and I wouldn't believe what he has told any of you either) & this new stuff on Twitter I think it is a well earned ban to be honest. There shouldn't be a discussion about it anymore and fair play to Zaph, Dav etc for getting rid of a nuisance it's been a long time coming & he had more warnings than most.

Bobeagleburger

Kunkka wrote: »

Let's not pretend we don't why this thread was made.



You see this is an illusion. He came across as a nice chap in most circumstances(I thought this too initially) but to the mods & many others he was nothing but a pain in the arse. I've been subjected to unsolicited PMs from him accusing me of being another user on here and I am not the only one that has got these types of PMs. My only ever dealings with him directly where in this thread where I seen one of his MANY outbursts on this site http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77947019&postcount=1156 . I wasn't directly involved in this at all but I remembered it and when I seen him do it on MANY other forums while creating more work for mods for no reason but to fed his own ego I just lost complete lost respect for the guy. You'd think being a Liverpool fan myself I'd get along with the guy but I've easily seen through a lot of the stuff he's posted.

Add in all that he had done while on this site(that no one apart from the mods know to be honest and I wouldn't believe what he has told any of you either) & this new stuff on Twitter I think it is a well earned ban to be honest. There shouldn't be a discussion about it anymore and fair play to Zaph, Dav etc for getting rid of a nuisance it's been a long time coming & he had more warnings than most.

I'd imagine it's up to the mods to decide if this discussion should continue or not tbf.

It's supposed to be about Twitter and other sites rather than tirades about an ex user.

This will be an issue again in the future I'd imagine . I want to know how it's to be dealt with.

Washington Irving

Kunkka wrote: »

My only ever dealings with him directly where in this thread where I seen one of his MANY outbursts on this site http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77947019&postcount=1156 . I wasn't directly involved in this at all but I remembered it and when I seen him do it on MANY other forums while creating more work for mods for no reason but to fed his own ego I just lost complete lost respect for the guy.

If you knew the whole story behind that post you wouldn't be viewing him as the bad guy.

It has nothing to do with this thread anyway. Doesn't matter who was banned, it doesn't change the point the OP is hoping to discuss. You're just using the thread as a platform to spew your grievances and disagreements with a former poster.

Bounty Hunter

Don't see the confusion here, If you use another public platform to openly state your intention to impact negatively on boards.ie no matter what the board is or who the user doing so is, that person should they be identified should not be allowed to follow through with their plans if at all possible.

I understand the notion that having a clear set of rules and guidelines with regards what you can or cant do could seem appealing but tbh it could also create far more problems as it would highlight to people that way inclined what it is they can do without action being taken while people shouldnt need to be told that the above (see first small paragraph) isn't allowed.

This thread may have been brought about in relation to a recent incident where an already banned soccer forum member was then site banned in relation to off site activity but this issue and thread are not and should not be just about the soccer forum.

Dav referenced a previous incident on boards where due to a lack of any clear evidence as to the identity of the twitter account no action was taken, that was a major incident where if it was possible to take action it would have been taken so suffice to say if people are sad enough to make fake twitters handles and post stuff that they make sure finds its way to the mods it will no doubt take more than just the name of an account to get action taken against a boardsie.

LuckyLloyd

I don't believe this ban constitutes a new precedent (people have been sitebanned for behaviour on other platforms before) nor do I think the line Dav has drawn is unclear. As an admin of a forum with a lot of cross membership it seems to me that:

- commentary, opinion and a certain amount of venting is okay;
- vitriol, harassment and an express intention to attack is not;

And I think that is absolutely fair enough. It is also reasonable for boards.ie to make the assessment of which is which and set their own standards in that regard.

Bobeagleburger

What if you're anonymous on Twitter and abuse mods and users from boards ?

That's all somebody has to do unfortunately .

LuckyLloyd

rarnes1 wrote: »

What if you're anonymous on Twitter and abuse mods and users from boards ?

That's all somebody has to do unfortunately .

Absolutely, people will be smart enough to do **** and get away with it. But that does not in anyway mean that boards.ie shouldn't take action when they have an amount of evidence they deem conclusive. As Bounty correctly notes, this is not an area that lends itself to black and white rules and community driven processes.

KevIRL

I would imagine its fair enough to say that previous history on Boards in terms of warnings/infractions/forum and site bans would be taken into account in terms of deciding the punishment and severity of action taken. Certainly seems to have happened in the incident referenced on this thread anyway

Bobeagleburger

KevIRL wrote: »

I would imagine its fair enough to say that previous history on Boards in terms of warnings/infractions/forum and site bans would be taken into account in terms of deciding the punishment and severity of action taken. Certainly seems to have happened in the incident referenced on this thread anyway

That's true too I'd imagine

Kunkka

Washington Irving wrote: »

If you knew the whole story behind that post you wouldn't be viewing him as the bad guy.

It has nothing to do with this thread anyway. Doesn't matter who was banned, it doesn't change the point the OP is hoping to discuss. You're just using the thread as a platform to spew your grievances and disagreements with a former poster.

I really don't care about Nuri I am just pointing out that he is the reason this thread has started. Let's not pretend it was created for any other reason, if it was a user with 50 posts who was banned because of a Twitter rant we wouldn't have this thread and that is fact. Aguero along with others have constantly defended him in the past when he has been out of line. I think the people that run the site are totally in the right on this issue and I've disagreed with loads of other things in the past.

I don't know the complete background to that post I will admit but I do know that he has had outbursts like that in many other places from what I've seen of him and this is why I think he shouldn't be part of this community. He really could be a nasty piece of work. He just causes so much unwanted hassle. Before anyone says I am just having a free pop at someone, I am not. I really couldn't give two ****s about him I am just stating the obvious and why I think the ban was right & what I really think the reasons for having this thread were.

gandalf

My input into this thread is based on the concept of a user being banned for their interactions outside Boards.ie and not because of the personality involved in the direct banning.