Small Businnes Idea! :) - ADVICE NEEDED!

daviecronin

Hello All on Boards.ie,

Hope ye are keeping well. Well first of all I've had this idea in the back of my head for a while. To give ye a bit of background enough I'm David and I'm 16 years old and I'm extremely driven when it comes to business. I do both Business and Economics in school and find it very interesting. I really do have a keen interest in business and I can see me spending the rest of my life doing it! I don't care if anyone says it dodgy or risky etc I believe if you're doing what you're love and you keep at it you will become successful and you cant let job opportunities etc stop you.

ANYWAYYYY.... Rant over. Back to my idea. Okay before anyway shots me down I just need a bit of help guidance. I was planning recently that I would buy sweets all kinds ( Bon bons, apple drops, etc etc ) and Jars wholesale, and put one into the other! I was going to be buying my sweets wholesale in 3kg packets from the uk and sourcing wholesale jars from an irish company at a good price! I can get around 200 jars with lids delivered to my door for around 70 euro. I know you might be thinking the whole retro sweet thing has been done before etc etc which it has! But I think putting them in jam jar style and making them look presentable with a sticker and some ribbon would really make it attractive! I was thinking roughly 2E per Jar and then 3 for 5E! The margins wouldn't be MASSIVE but I think its something worth doing! I think I could get a jar with sweets and lid etc etc under around 85c? Which does leave a nice bit of profit!

The next question I imagine you are thinking is.. well where are you going to sell them? Well I think I would first hope sell them at car boot sales and eventually break into the proper markets. At a market I think I could stand out with my modern approach to retro style sweets! I know proper markets incur public liability insurance? with a casual traders license? Am I right on that?
After being in farmers markets for a while maybe try it out in a shop and see where it goes from there? I know at the moment big chain stores like Tesco have that company called TUBS that sell a handful of sweet in a little plastic tub for 2 for 4E, And that's where I think I can make the difference!

Anyway try not to shot me down too bad! hahah! I still got to dream ya know! If you've read all this I thank you and would love some advice!

Just on your numbers, whats your total cost - Jar+Sweets. How much is it going to retail in a store for if you start selling in stores?

GarIT

I assume you have accounted for VAT in your margin calculations.

If you are repackaging food you will need to have all your health & safety stuff in order, you will probably need to be certified to handle food. You will also need to find the nutritional information of the new product if you are mixing them.

I dont mean to put you off now especially when you come across as years ahead of your age knowledge wise but it might be a good idea to wait until college/uni, there are competitions for startup businesses and a lot of support available too.

delahuntv

Probably too late to get into this market as "Tubs" seems to have got there before you.

You also have a lot of competition from the likes of Crilly sweets and the discounters.

The jar presentation market is quite small - if I were doing a range, I'd have the jars as one line in a bigger range that included bags.

As you will be selling food (even if its just sweets) you'll need to be registered with the local HSE unit. (not too difficult)


Forget car boot sales - the people going to them want stuff for half nothing. Try a few local shops or maybe do it as a Christmas project and do Christmas fairs.


As for risky - all business is risky. You just set you limits, manage your risk and be prepared to lose - same with any gamble. Risk changes over time - young with no commitments, you can take far higher risk than someone in forties with children and a mortgage.

daviecronin

Deleted User wrote: »

Just on your numbers, whats your total cost - Jar+Sweets. How much is it going to retail in a store for if you start selling in stores?

Well that all depends on how many sweets and jars I buy at first! Obviously the more I buy the cheaper it becomes! But I can see each jar being made presentable for under 85c and selling each at 2euro and 3 for 5

daviecronin

GarIT wrote: »

I assume you have accounted for VAT in your margin calculations.

If you are repackaging food you will need to have all your health & safety stuff in order, you will probably need to be certified to handle food. You will also need to find the nutritional information of the new product if you are mixing them.

I dont mean to put you off now especially when you come across as years ahead of your age knowledge wise but it might be a good idea to wait until college/uni, there are competitions for startup businesses and a lot of support available too.

I presume you mean register as a sole trader? I wont be paying Vat for a long time I'm sure as you only pay vat when you break the threashold of 20,000 I think?

See that's what I don't need people telling me to wait on till this or that! Theres no time like the present and we have to do these things while we are young!

daviecronin

delahuntv wrote: »

Probably too late to get into this market as "Tubs" seems to have got there before you.

You also have a lot of competition from the likes of Crilly sweets and the discounters.

The jar presentation market is quite small - if I were doing a range, I'd have the jars as one line in a bigger range that included bags.

As you will be selling food (even if its just sweets) you'll need to be registered with the local HSE unit. (not too difficult)


Forget car boot sales - the people going to them want stuff for half nothing. Try a few local shops or maybe do it as a Christmas project and do Christmas fairs.


As for risky - all business is risky. You just set you limits, manage your risk and be prepared to lose - same with any gamble. Risk changes over time - young with no commitments, you can take far higher risk than someone in forties with children and a mortgage.

I know you're right about the company 'tubs' but I was planning to be like them in a way but with a twist and at a cheaper price! I think having sweets in a glass jar could be put to all more uses than an ugly old piece of plastic!

Car boot sales? You think not? Well I could start with a few of them anyway! I have another question does there have to be a label explaining the nutritional side of things even if I'm only selling at markets?

CIARAN_BOYLE

daviecronin wrote: »

I presume you mean register as a sole trader? I wont be paying Vat for a long time I'm sure as you only pay vat when you break the threashold of 20,000 I think?

Vat threshold is 37500 (turnover not profit).

I would imagine that Christmas would be the best time of the year to be selling this at. Christmas markets if you are unlucky, a local shop if you are lucky.

daviecronin

daviecronin wrote: »

Well that all depends on how many sweets and jars I buy at first! Obviously the more I buy the cheaper it becomes! But I can see each jar being made presentable for under 85c and selling each at 2euro and 3 for 5

So if your going to sell this into a retail store, and your cost is 85 cents, you would need to be selling to the store for say 1.30 at the lease to make it worth your while. The store is then going to want around 50% margin give or take 10%. So they will want to sell it for 2.60 + VAT. So you'll need to check then at this kind of selling price, are you pricing yourself out of the market compared to what else is out there. You won't have economies of scale that major manufacturers have, so your costs are going to be likely too high to compete in any retail chains.

For something like this you may want to be selling it online directly, otherwise unless its on a very small scare I dont see how you can compete.

Forget the car boot sales, they are only micky mouse.

daviecronin

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Vat threshold is 37500 (turnover not profit).

I would imagine that Christmas would be the best time of the year to be selling this at. Christmas markets if you are unlucky, a local shop if you are lucky.

Thanks for that! I don't see myself selling around 18,000 jars! hahah As far as I know I just need to register as a sole trader so!

Yes I would imagine Christmas would be a good time of year!

daviecronin

Deleted User wrote: »

So if your going to sell this into a retail store, and your cost is 85 cents, you would need to be selling to the store for say 1.30 at the lease to make it worth your while. The store is then going to want around 50% margin give or take 10%. So they will want to sell it for 2.60 + VAT. So you'll need to check then at this kind of selling price, are you pricing yourself out of the market compared to what else is out there. You won't have economies of scale that major manufacturers have, so your costs are going to be likely too high to compete in any retail chains.

For something like this you may want to be selling it online directly, otherwise unless its on a very small scare I dont see how you can compete.

Forget the car boot sales, they are only micky mouse.

Thanks for your lengthy reply! I know my cost I said was around 85c! Well that all depends on how many sweets you can fit in a jar which I don't know yet! I can get 200 jars and lids to my door for 38c each! So then it depends on how much a 3kg bag would fill? Maybe costs could be under 60c! I know unfortunately I don't millions in the bank or a factory hah! So to speak I'm in the cottage market! I never thought I was going to be in retail chains but more stand alone shops like a few cafes, crafts centres, etc where it could add to the shop!

Car boot sales aren't micky mouse have made a lot of money in my time with them and they aren't like markets where you could be paying 100 for a pitch and a license and insurance!!

daviecronin

daviecronin wrote: »

Thanks for your lengthy reply! I know my cost I said was around 85c! Well that all depends on how many sweets you can fit in a jar which I don't know yet! I can get 200 jars and lids to my door for 38c each! So then it depends on how much a 3kg bag would fill? Maybe costs could be under 60c! I know unfortunately I don't millions in the bank or a factory hah! So to speak I'm in the cottage market! I never thought I was going to be in retail chains but more stand alone shops like a few cafes, crafts centres, etc where it could add to the shop!

Car boot sales aren't micky mouse have made a lot of money in my time with them and they aren't like markets where you could be paying 100 for a pitch and a license and insurance!!

Well the cafes are gona want the same margins or similar at least to the chains, and you need to be offering whoever is going to sell it for you a decent margin as incentive. Otherwise if they have a better margin on a competing product they won't want yours as it will eat the sales of the other more profitable product.

Your definition of a lot of money and mine is probably very different! Sure if its a saturday morning hobby go to the car boot sale, but if you have any sort of ambition of making this into a proper business you need to be thinking bigger then that. Shoot for the stars you might hit the sky.

gaz wac

daviecronin wrote: »

I know you're right about the company 'tubs' but I was planning to be like them in a way but with a twist and at a cheaper price! I think having sweets in a glass jar could be put to all more uses than an ugly old piece of plastic!

tbh i buy Tubs all the time, if your product was sitting next to theirs, id prob take the cheap plastic tub, what do i want with a glass jar ?, i would feel guilty just trowing it in a bin if i was walking around / in car, eating them..they never make it home!:p

If you can get them cheaper than Tubs, would that not be your winning formula? but fairplay....good luck

daviecronin

Deleted User wrote: »

Well the cafes are gona want the same margins or similar at least to the chains, and you need to be offering whoever is going to sell it for you a decent margin as incentive. Otherwise if they have a better margin on a competing product they won't want yours as it will eat the sales of the other more profitable product.

Your definition of a lot of money and mine is probably very different! Sure if its a saturday morning hobby go to the car boot sale, but if you have any sort of ambition of making this into a proper business you need to be thinking bigger then that. Shoot for the stars you might hit the sky.

Oh listen trust me, I don't want to stay in car boot sales! But I need to walk before I can run Trust me ambition is one thing I have! Thanks for your help you've been very kind. Maybe with the shops I could offer a sale or return when if they don't sell it by a certain time they can return it and pay me for the ones they sold?

- Also I sound greedy but you don't have more information on food certs etc! Don't want to get caught with the law!

Ye might see me on junior dragons den someday so watch out

daviecronin

gaz wac wrote: »

tbh i buy Tubs all the time, if your product was sitting next to theirs, id prob take the cheap plastic tub, what do i want with a glass jar ?, i would feel guilty just trowing it in a bin if i was walking around / in car, eating them..they never make it home!:p

If you can get them cheaper than Tubs, would that not be your winning formula? but fairplay....good luck

Well tubs are currently 2.19 each or 2 for 4 I think? and I was offering 2e each and 3 for 5! which works out cheaper! I was think since its in a nice jar it would be a nice present? Like if you staying in a relatives house a glass jar would look a lot more expensive and classy rather than a piece of plastic?

bizzyb

If you were selling sweets in a fancy jar at a car boot sale, I wouldn't by them. If you were selling homemade honeycomb, fudge(which are simple to make) I would. You won't compete with the big guns, think of a niche in the sweet market, putting them in a glass jar isn't enough. Best of luck & great to see your ambition so young.

daviecronin

bizzyb wrote: »

If you were selling sweets in a fancy jar at a car boot sale, I wouldn't by them. If you were selling homemade honeycomb, fudge(which are simple to make) I would. You won't compete with the big guns, think of a niche in the sweet market, putting them in a glass jar isn't enough. Best of luck & great to see your ambition so young.

Well that's one person who wouldn't I suppose! I know I always see homemade fudge at markets actually but never see sweets in jars hmmm hahah! What other niche would you be thinking of?

Thanks for saying I've ambition, I think its one thing a lot of irish people don't have! Like confidence - I have no confidence! But if I want to do something I do it! People are always put off by parents friends stereotypes etc! Life is too short do what you want! - Hahah sorry about that I rant a lot!

bizzyb

Google these two guys (separate business') Fraser Bawtree & Fraser Doherty, and look what the have created from very young ages, starting out with nothing but ambition. Try & find something unique to you & become a millionaire....

daviecronin

daviecronin wrote: »

Well that's one person who wouldn't I suppose! I know I always see homemade fudge at markets actually but never see sweets in jars hmmm hahah! What other niche would you be thinking of?

Thanks for saying I've ambition, I think its one thing a lot of irish people don't have! Like confidence - I have no confidence! But if I want to do something I do it! People are always put off by parents friends stereotypes etc! Life is too short do what you want! - Hahah sorry about that I rant a lot!

Theres no reason you should have no confidence. Always believe in yourself, and don't be afraid to fail. When people around you are negative just use that as fuel to spur you on.

daviecronin

bizzyb wrote: »

Google these two guys (separate business') Fraser Bawtree & Fraser Doherty, and look what the have created from very young ages, starting out with nothing but ambition. Try & find something unique to you & become a millionaire....

Hahah thanks for that!

daviecronin

Deleted User wrote: »

Theres no reason you should have no confidence. Always believe in yourself, and don't be afraid to fail. When people around you are negative just use that as fuel to spur you on.

Yes indeed haha I'm very stubborn when it comes to things like that people telling me I cant do things just makes me want to do it more!


Does anyone have any experience with stalls or the food safety side of things?

pedronomix

You are highly unlikely to make any money out of this highly unoriginal idea but you will learn tons and tons and this kind of experience cannot be learned in school or bought by Daddy. You are only 16 but will come out the other side wiser, more cynical and smarter. You might lose a couple of hundred Euro, it will be the best money you ever invest in "you".. go for it. remember the biggest sin you will ever commit is to make the same mistake twice!!

Love the blind faith of youth.... way to go!

daviecronin

pedronomix wrote: »

You are highly unlikely to make any money out of this highly unoriginal idea but you will learn tons and tons and this kind of experience cannot be learned in school or bought by Daddy. You are only 16 but will come out the other side wiser, more cynical and smarter. You might lose a couple of hundred Euro, it will be the best money you ever invest in "you".. go for it. remember the biggest sin you will ever commit is to make the same mistake twice!!

Love the blind faith of youth.... way to go!

Excuse me? You don't have to be so cheeky about the whole idea? Highly unlikely to make money, daddy cant buy it? Who do you think you are? You've driven me on to make it happen! Just because your are probably having a mid-life crisis and wishing you did more stuff when you were younger. Its people like you that take confidence or ambition out of people! Blind faith of youth? The youth of this country will be the people paying for the mess of your generation! The youth of this country is the only way to go. To start new businesses to generate money and all you can do is tell me its experience daddy cant buy?

pedronomix

If you took time to read what I actually wrote, it is obvious that I am encouraging you. There is no need to start throwing the toys out of the pram and as you have not the slightest idea of what I have or have not made of my life.. just grow up. Enthusiasm + idea is maybe 5%, 95% is plain hard work..

daviecronin

pedronomix wrote: »

If you took time to read what I actually wrote, it is obvious that I am encouraging you. There is no need to start throwing the toys out of the pram and as you have not the slightest idea of what I have or have not made of my life.. just grow up. Enthusiasm + idea is maybe 5%, 95% is plain hard work..

Wow thanks for all this inspirational sayings!!!!! So KIND! Don't throw the toys out of the pram? I don't know how anyone could take that as encouragement to be honest. You're talking down to me as if I was 5 and as if you were gods gift with all the knowledge in the world!

pedronomix

daviecronin wrote: »

Wow thanks for all this inspirational sayings!!!!! So KIND! Don't throw the toys out of the pram? I don't know how anyone could take that as encouragement to be honest. You're talking down to me as if I was 5 and as if you were gods gift with all the knowledge in the world!

you are quoting the wrong post!!

daviecronin

pedronomix wrote: »

you are quoting the wrong post!!

I don't think so mate!

Axwell

daviecronin wrote: »

Wow thanks for all this inspirational sayings!!!!! So KIND! Don't throw the toys out of the pram? I don't know how anyone could take that as encouragement to be honest. You're talking down to me as if I was 5 and as if you were gods gift with all the knowledge in the world!

Mod Note:

Tone down the attitude. He actually wrote a post encouraging you and said it was good to see someone of a young age with enthusiasm. Don't twist his post into something it wasn't. Get back on track and cut out the childish squabbles.

daviecronin

Axwell wrote: »

Mod Note:

Tone down the attitude. He actually wrote a post encouraging you and said it was good to see someone of a young age with enthusiasm. Don't twist his post into something it wasn't. Get back on track and cut out the childish squabbles.

Hello Axwell, In my opinion it wasn't an encouraging post he basically told me not to do it and that youth have faith in nothing. That's my opinion I'm sorry!

Zaph

daviecronin wrote: »

Hello Axwell, In my opinion it wasn't an encouraging post he basically told me not to do it and that youth have faith in nothing. That's my opinion I'm sorry!

Re-read the post. He said exactly the opposite of what you have read into it. If you're unable to recognise when you're being given good advice it'll be a long, hard road for you in the business world.

CIARAN_BOYLE

daviecronin wrote: »

Hello Axwell, In my opinion it wasn't an encouraging post he basically told me not to do it and that youth have faith in nothing. That's my opinion I'm sorry!

You have an idea you make an effort and make or lose money you will learn a **** tonne about the real world. Go for it and give it a shot. It might work out but probably you will lose a bit but you will learn a lot. A failed business venture makes a great talking point in interviews later in life. Same thing the previous poster wrote but a little nicer.