Small Businnes Idea! :) - ADVICE NEEDED!

daviecronin

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

You have an idea you make an effort and make or lose money you will learn a **** tonne about the real world. Go for it and give it a shot. It might work out but probably you will lose a bit but you will learn a lot. A failed business venture makes a great talking point in interviews later in life. Same thing the previous poster wrote but a little nicer.

A LOT nicer I might add! I've had business ventures in the post as ye should maybe know! I've dealt with online business buy and selling! That as my first business so to speak worked out well but was too time consuming on my end! Trust me I already know a far bit about the world of business and not being experienced in certain area isn't going to stop me!

Axwell

daviecronin wrote: »

Hello Axwell, In my opinion it wasn't an encouraging post he basically told me not to do it and that youth have faith in nothing. That's my opinion I'm sorry!

He said nothing of the sort. He said the idea was unoriginal and probably wouldnt make you much money which is more than likely true. He pointed out that you would however learn far more from it than you possibly could from school alone or someone just giving you money to waste. Chill out and read what people have to say, most have plenty of years more experience than you and are here to give helpful advice. Not all of it is going to be music to your ears but constructive criticism is still good advice. No one has said anything to you belittling you, your age or your business so you would do well to relax and read what people take time to post.

Now leave it at that and get back on track..

daviecronin

Axwell wrote: »

He said nothing of the sort. He said the idea was unoriginal and probably wouldnt make you much money which is more than likely true. He pointed out that you would however learn far more from it than you possibly could from school alone or someone just giving you money to waste. Chill out and read what people have to say, most have plenty of years more experience than you and are here to give helpful advice. Not all of it is going to be music to your ears but constructive criticism is still good advice. No one has said anything to you belittling you, your age or your business so you would do well to relax and read what people take time to post.

Now leave it at that and get back on track..

Thanks again Axwell for your contribution! I just took it a bit differently than that and agreeing with him wont help the situation haha! We're all different I suppose! Ye will see me make millions yet just watch out!

Bigus

I was going to offer some positive words of advice and encouragement , until I read post 23, now when I see the way you react, I suddenly don't like your attitude,

you've alienated posters and a mod, and turned a potentially useful(to you) thread and business tool, sour, all by yourself.

So one thing you might learn in business is " never burn your bridges" and never be condescending to anybody,no matter how successful you think you are, or might become,

success in life can't be measured by, or read off a balance sheet.

In spite of the above,I'm prepared to say, that your idea is fundamentally sound, cheap to implement ,easy to scale , and relatively risk free,

I agree that a glass jar and branding could be more attractive And command a premium price over tubs , once the contents are better, or seen to be superior.

daviecronin

Bigus wrote: »

I was going to offer some positive words of advice and encouragement , until I read post 23, now when I see the way you react, I suddenly don't like your attitude,

you've alienated posters and a mod, and turned a potentially useful(to you) thread and business tool, sour, all by yourself.

So one thing you might learn in business is " never burn your bridges" and never be condescending to anybody,no matter how successful you think you are, or might become,

success in life can't be measured by, or read off a balance sheet.

In spite of the above,I'm prepared to say, that your idea is fundamentally sound, cheap to implement ,easy to scale , and relatively risk free,

I agree that a glass jar and branding could be more attractive And command a premium price over tubs , once the contents are better, or seen to be superior.

Thanks for your say Bigus! I didn't mean to come across childish or ungrateful in any of my post. Its traits like that I despise in people!

I my short life so far I have learnt a lot. I have my interests and not just business. But how I took the post was that imagine if he/she said that to me in person that I would make no money and its unoriginal and nobody would buy it? It wouldn't come across very nice would it? It like you telling someone I would love to be a mother/father and they were like no you would be terrible you would mess up your child and loss in the long term? You have to understand my business is my baby, no matter how big or how small I will take it to heart. I'm extremely passionnant when I do something. If youre not going to do it with a heart don't do it at all!

Axwell

As other posters have said this is possibly a business that will work better at Christmas. I would suggest seasonal times of year myself, be it Christmas, Easter, Paddys day or whatever. People are more likely to spend money on seasonal items than normal. Personally if I saw the sweets in a jar and tubs I would buy the tubs, as someone else said I don't want to be stuck with a glass jar to get rid of where as a plastic tub is less hassle. However come Halloween, where you can design the jar to stand out ahead of tubs and charge that bit extra parents are more likely to buy it for their kids. At Christmas it could make a nice gift, you could have different types of sweets suited that time of year.

In America they are big into Candy Canes at Christmas. I got a gift before of a metal case which was red with gold holly leaves on it and inside was full of candy canes all wrapped up in a bow. Cost very little to put together im sure as it was a simple metal box, candy canes bought seperately and added to it with some ribbon and then sold in the shops. I am sure my friend paid a few dollars for it at the time as it looked nice and caught their eye as a gift instead of just sending a few candy canes on their own.

daviecronin

Axwell wrote: »

As other posters have said this is possibly a business that will work better at Christmas. I would suggest seasonal times of year myself, be it Christmas, Easter, Paddys day or whatever. People are more likely to spend money on seasonal items than normal. Personally if I saw the sweets in a jar and tubs I would buy the tubs, as someone else said I don't want to be stuck with a glass jar to get rid of where as a plastic tub is less hassle. However come Halloween, where you can design the jar to stand out ahead of tubs and charge that bit extra parents are more likely to buy it for their kids. At Christmas it could make a nice gift, you could have different types of sweets suited that time of year.

In America they are big into Candy Canes at Christmas. I got a gift before of a metal case which was red with gold holly leaves on it and inside was full of candy canes all wrapped up in a bow. Cost very little to put together im sure as it was a simple metal box, candy canes bought seperately and added to it with some ribbon and then sold in the shops. I am sure my friend paid a few dollars for it at the time as it looked nice and caught their eye as a gift instead of just sending a few candy canes on their own.

I HAD THAT IDEA TOOO!!!!!! I was thinking of green white and orange bon bons around paddys day etc!!! It would be a great idea I think! As ye have said about the glass I don't agree! I think glass jars could add style!

If I have offended any posters in the past I'm sorry I'm a very opinionated guy! haha!

Axwell

daviecronin wrote: »

I HAD THAT IDEA TOOO!!!!!! I was thinking of green white and orange bon bons around paddys day etc!!! It would be a great idea I think! As ye have said about the glass I don't agree! I think glass jars could add style!

If I have offended any posters in the past I'm sorry I'm a very opinionated guy! haha!

It depends where you sell them and who you target. If I walk into a local shop and I am picking up a few bits I am not after style I am just grabbing some bits and I am gone. If I am looking for a gift thats a different story but I dont go into my local Spar for a gift so its all about where you sell them and how you present it.

daviecronin

Axwell wrote: »

It depends where you sell them and who you target. If I walk into a local shop and I am picking up a few bits I am not after style I am just grabbing some bits and I am gone. If I am looking for a gift thats a different story but I dont go into my local Spar for a gift so its all about where you sell them and how you present it.

As I said in a couple of previous shops I wasn't really attacking the mainstream shops! I was thinking more craft centres/ tourist places/ unique cafes etc! Like for example if you were visiting a friend down/ up the country and wanted something small for the kids etc 3 glass jars would add class and style in my opinion! Also I think they would be great stocking fillers! I think markets/car boots would work well aswell!

Does anyone have advice on the food safety side of things?

Marziec

As an business person myself all I can tell you is please don't lose the passion and drive you so clearly have. Sometimes when we put ourselves out there and ask for advice we have to weed out exactly what is useful to us and what is not (A lot of it will be very discouraging, unhelpful and condescending)

Starting out in business is difficult but it is extremely rewarding. I currently run an online shop where I sell supplies and I also have a consultancy business that I set up last year. I am now looking into setting up a food stall at a farmers market (that's how I came across you thread!)
Look I say when starting out, start small, spend as little as you can starting off and try to start selling whatever it is your going to be selling straight away!

Food is a tricky one and it does take a lot of work but there is tonnes of information out there, Check out the bord bia website for info on selling at farmers markets (they wont let me post any links because I'm new!

On the health and safety side of things speak with your local HSE on advise re health and safety, They do kitchen visits/inspections etc. check out the fsai website for details

And just keep in mind things like Product liability insurances, and public liability insurances etc. These don't have to be very expensive but can keep you covered you can check out MAST you can often get these for around €200 per year

Dont forget to use sites such a weebly or WIX to give yourself an online presence , you can build a website and online shop for free with weebly! I have built a website for my business, an online shop and I just recently started a food blog! Again all these things take time and effort to do but are worth the effort!

Best of luck in all that you do and keep the faith!

PS I'm totally impressed that your only 16, it took me 33 years!

daviecronin

Marziec wrote: »

As an business person myself all I can tell you is please don't lose the passion and drive you so clearly have. Sometimes when we put ourselves out there and ask for advice we have to weed out exactly what is useful to us and what is not (A lot of it will be very discouraging, unhelpful and condescending)

Starting out in business is difficult but it is extremely rewarding. I currently run an online shop where I sell supplies and I also have a consultancy business that I set up last year. I am now looking into setting up a food stall at a farmers market (that's how I came across you thread!)
Look I say when starting out, start small, spend as little as you can starting off and try to start selling whatever it is your going to be selling straight away!

Food is a tricky one and it does take a lot of work but there is tonnes of information out there, Check out the bord bia website for info on selling at farmers markets (they wont let me post any links because I'm new!

On the health and safety side of things speak with your local HSE on advise re health and safety, They do kitchen visits/inspections etc. check out the fsai website for details

And just keep in mind things like Product liability insurances, and public liability insurances etc. These don't have to be very expensive but can keep you covered you can check out MAST you can often get these for around €200 per year

Dont forget to use sites such a weebly or WIX to give yourself an online presence , you can build a website and online shop for free with weebly! I have built a website for my business, an online shop and I just recently started a food blog! Again all these things take time and effort to do but are worth the effort!

Best of luck in all that you do and keep the faith!

PS I'm totally impressed that your only 16, it took me 33 years!

Wow! Thanks so much for your detailed response that's so nice! I have recently dropped the sweet idea and I am currently working on a unique food product that's not on the irish market! Haha how exciting! I meet with my local enterprise board and they loved it! They said its unique in style and has potential to go mainstream into chains! Crazzzzyyy. They said it still needs tweeking and stuff. They gave me some great tips!They said try it out at a farmers market with another stall to test out the market instead of paying all the fees etc straight away since I don't know will it work. Also I'm in talks with a local shop to try and get it in there! thanks so much for the reply. Don't worry the business big hits us at different times

getsome

pedronomix wrote: »

You are highly unlikely to make any money out of this highly unoriginal idea but you will learn tons and tons and this kind of experience cannot be learned in school or bought by Daddy. You are only 16 but will come out the other side wiser, more cynical and smarter. You might lose a couple of hundred Euro, it will be the best money you ever invest in "you".. go for it. remember the biggest sin you will ever commit is to make the same mistake twice!!

Love the blind faith of youth.... way to go!

This post could not have been better said! you should take value from this post your idea needs to add value to the customer an idea that is under cutting competition is not adding real value.

Saying that go for it who knows what can happen, most shops look for around 30-40 margin on most products! but you might get local shops if you know them to help you out. See if you can sell some first you might have a business if you do.

DubTony

El Rifle mentioned retailer margin earlier. It seems to have gone unaddressed. Here's the info you'll need to take it to that level.

Retailers will want at least a 30% margin. That's 30% of the retail price before VAT, as profit. So selling for €2 in most retailers is an actual ex VAT selling price of €1.62. 30% of that is just under 50c. This means that your wholesale price to them, landed in their shop, will need to be less than €1.12.

Your average coffee shop/cafe, craft shop, tourist place will expect a higher margin. Somewhere in the ballpark of 50%. So they're unlikely to pay any more than about 80c. What must also be understood and accepted is that retailers will decide what price to sell the product at. They will not allow you to dictate their selling prices. So you shouldn't be surprised, if you make it into retailers, to see your product on sale for €2.95 or similar while the retailer has screwed you to the wall and given you 75c for a jar.

You're going to have retailers who won't take the product unless you offer them a sale or return deal, maybe a free stock deal, and some chancers will even suggest a rebate.

Personally I think you're pitching this too cheap. TUBS aren't your competition in this area. They're competing with Mars and Trebor etc. While your product isn't uncommon, I can see where it could fit in as a niche. Look at Butlers and Lily O'Briens. Niche products in a busy marketplace can find their area. Maybe instead of filling jars with jelly beans and Smarties and whatnot, you might consider higher quality, less common sweets. Add to that a quality jar with above average labelling/decoration and you could have something.

You don't need to be original to stand out, or to make it.

Finally, as a 16 year old I failed to recognise the opportunities that were under my nose. I was always thinking about the big deal in the big business with the big money. None ever became that. What you focus on is the most important thing. Yeah, the goal is sometimes the money, but that can lead to the journey being all over the place. Establish your business with an eye to supplying a great product in a timely manner at a competitive price (but don't undercut everyone just to get a foothold - your product will find its place). Expand as you see fit but make sure you've enough money to do it. It can be tempting to go to the big retailer/wholesaler to get the big deal, but it doesn't always mean you've made it, and can cost more than it's worth.

Good Luck.

edit: One more thing. Keep your attitude in check. Watch your reactions. You're going to come across all sorts of people who put things in certain ways. How you react to them will have a lot to do with your success or failure. Not everyone is out to get you. In fact, the opposite is probably closer to the truth. Keep that in mind and do your best to stay be humble.

Wow! Thanks so much for your detailed response that's so nice! I have recently dropped the sweet idea and I am currently working on a unique food product that's not on the irish market! Haha how exciting! I meet with my local enterprise board and they loved it! They said its unique in style and has potential to go mainstream into chains! Crazzzzyyy. They said it still needs tweeking and stuff. They gave me some great tips!They said try it out at a farmers market with another stall to test out the market instead of paying all the fees etc straight away since I don't know will it work. Also I'm in talks with a local shop to try and get it in there! thanks so much for the reply. Don't worry the business big hits us at different times

another edit: Jesus, did I just waste 15 minutes? :rolleyes:

daviecronin

Hahha hello everyone thanks for yer posts but ye are picking up on it wrong alright as I said in a previous post I'm currently going with another idea! Yes the sweet jar idea has been dropped so no need to give out to me more!

pedronomix

Could be a great market up North!!

daviecronin

pedronomix wrote: »

Could be a great market up North!!

Are you trying to start a fight. The situation up in northern Ireland is no laughing matter and i hope you would respect that.

daviecronin

daviecronin wrote: »

Are you trying to start a fight. The situation up in northern Ireland is no laughing matter and i hope you would respect that.

Davie if you want to mix politics and business maybe you should consider peddling weapons instead of jars of sweets.

Theres no place in this forum for talking republican or loyalist bull**** so keep those opinions to yourself.

Theres also a career in hole digging readily available for you if you decide not to read what people are saying to you, or are unable to interpret it properly. The goodwill you get from being young and enthusiastic will soon get eroded if you keep going the way your going.

daviecronin

Deleted User wrote: »

Davie if you want to mix politics and business maybe you should consider peddling weapons instead of jars of sweets.

Theres no place in this forum for talking republican or loyalist bull**** so keep those opinions to yourself.

Theres also a career in hole digging readily available for you if you decide not to read what people are saying to you, or are unable to interpret it properly. The goodwill you get from being young and enthusiastic will soon get eroded if you keep going the way your going.

I understand what you are saying that was in a different forum and I certainly don't want to bring that in here! It's just pedonormix (did I spell it right?) is acting like it's not a serious matter. Anyway I will it at that. You can't be saying what anyone believes in is bull**** that's not fair to either side. Anyway moving on.

DubTony

daviecronin wrote: »

To give ye a bit of background enough I'm David and I'm 16 years old and I'm extremely arrogant.

AAAH! Should have known better. This thread was always going to be a wreck.

daviecronin

DubTony wrote: »

AAAH! Should have known better. This thread was always going to be a wreck.

Hahaha arrogant was the wrong word. Stubborn would be better hahah!

RoboRat

Here is my 2 cents worth for what its worth.

Firstly, you need to listen and not get defensive/ offensive. If somebody offers advice, take it, even if its not what you want to hear. The best advice you can get are complaints as they are what help you iron out an issues.

You don't need to reinvent the wheel, as somebody who has taken an existing product and put a unique slant on it, I can testify to this.

You do need to do something different a create a USP or else sell at the lowest price. You can't do the latter so I would look at the former. As one poster said, what would you buy a glass jar when you can buy a plastic one, who needs a glass jar... well to turn that one around, your product is completely recyclable and won't be sitting in landfill for centuries. How about looking into PLA based containers that are made from biodegradable corn, how about ethically sourced sweets, fairtrade sweets or gluten free sweets etc.

Your cost is too high to sell to shops, for manufacture your cost price should be no more than 20% of the retail price unless you plan on selling yourself. You need to factor in store mark up, returns etc. I think a better model would be to start online and in car boot sales, farmers markets and then build yourself up to the point where you can sell to retail.

You should look at the Irish slant and even doing customised labels online for birthdays, anniversaries, Christmas. You could also offer customised fills online and source the old favourites such as black jacks, apple drops, cough drops that middle aged people would love. Your slant could be based on nostalgia and marketing around that... the games of childhood, red rover, kerbs etc.

Thats just my 2 cents anyhow. Good luck with it and its a hard road but fair play to you for being so young and going for it. Don't expect to make anything within the first year as you will need to reinvest everything to build up your brand but as already said, you will learn more from this than from any school or college.

daviecronin

daviecronin wrote: »

Hahaha arrogant was the wrong word. Stubborn would be better hahah!

A bit of arrogance and stubbornness can be useful, I've been guilty of both plenty of times. Its just the when and where to be those things that you learn over time!

RoboRat

A bit of arrogance and stubbornness can be useful, I've been guilty of both plenty of times. Its just the when and where to be those things that you learn over time!

Absolutely, you need to follow your own mind as people will try and sway you, but you have to listen and take in what they say though. Sometimes somebody may say something that you really don't agree with, but on further reflection might be useful, or else it might trigger another idea.

As I said before customer service and feedback is critical. You have to listen to what your customers want and if you have done something wrong, rectify it.

I have to deal with some right fools in past jobs but I do so with a smile on my face and where possible address the problem, even if I feel they are in the wrong. There are situations where they are never going to be satisfied and you have to cut your losses but communication and listening to them often is enough to resolve the situation.

Look at it this way, a positive customer experience can lead to them telling 10 people, a negative can lead to them telling 25, a negative that you turn into a positive can lead to them telling 50 people. Always remember this.

daviecronin

daviecronin wrote: »

Wow! Thanks so much for your detailed response that's so nice! I have recently dropped the sweet idea and I am currently working on a unique food product that's not on the irish market! Haha how exciting! I meet with my local enterprise board and they loved it! They said its unique in style and has potential to go mainstream into chains! Crazzzzyyy. They said it still needs tweeking and stuff. They gave me some great tips!They said try it out at a farmers market with another stall to test out the market instead of paying all the fees etc straight away since I don't know will it work. Also I'm in talks with a local shop to try and get it in there! thanks so much for the reply. Don't worry the business big hits us at different times

Thanks so much for your recent posts and encouragement! BUttttt as I said in recents posts I dropped the sweet idea and have a new idea that I explained above that I am a lot more optimistic about! Does anyone here do a farmers market btw? I don't think I should get an extra treatment for being 16! If you are starting a business at 16 or 60 its still hard! Its just some people automatically think a 16 year old knows nothing about business and lack encouragement! We know a lotttt trust me

bizzyb

daviecronin wrote: »

Thanks so much for your recent posts and encouragement! BUttttt as I said in recents posts I dropped the sweet idea and have a new idea that I explained above that I am a lot more optimistic about! Does anyone here do a farmers market btw? I don't think I should get an extra treatment for being 16! If you are starting a business at 16 or 60 its still hard! Its just some people automatically think a 16 year old knows nothing about business and lack encouragement! We know a lotttt trust me

Depends on where you are but any of the decent farmers markets there's a long waiting list to get a pitch.

daviecronin

bizzyb wrote: »

Depends on where you are but any of the decent farmers markets there's a long waiting list to get a pitch.

Yes I'm aware of the waiting times but the enterprise board said it would be a good idea for me to go in with someone to test the product!

pedronomix

daviecronin wrote: »

I understand what you are saying that was in a different forum and I certainly don't want to bring that in here! It's just pedonormix (did I spell it right?) is acting like it's not a serious matter. Anyway I will it at that. You can't be saying what anyone believes in is bull**** that's not fair to either side. Anyway moving on.

It was on this forum, just a different thread. As advised already, just stop digging that hole!!

Axwell

Mod Note:

This will be the one and only note on the topic.

David, 16 and arrogant..you have been sent a warning. As someone else pointed out the good will you receive for being young and enthusiastic will only last so long when you counteract it with some of the nonsense you have posted in the last 24 hours. Take the warning onboard, keep the posts on topic and if you dont have anything of benefit to add to a thread then resist the urge to just post on it for the sake of it.

That includes the urge to reply to this post, its not up for discussion.

Pedronomix put the spoon away and stop stirring with pointless posts.

daviecronin

Axwell wrote: »

Mod Note:

This will be the one and only note on the topic.

David, 16 and arrogant..you have been sent a warning. As someone else pointed out the good will you receive for being young and enthusiastic will only last so long when you counteract it with some of the nonsense you have posted in the last 24 hours. Take the warning onboard, keep the posts on topic and if you dont have anything of benefit to add to a thread then resist the urge to just post on it for the sake of it.

That includes the urge to reply to this post, its not up for discussion.

Pedronomix put the spoon away and stop stirring with pointless posts.

I just want to reply in a nice way if I am allowed I don't expect any special treatment for setting up a business at 16. Whether anyone is setting up a business at 16 or 70 it's still a very hard thing to do as a lot of ye should no. The nonsense you refer to in the last 24 hours I'm presuming was on the other thread. I have apologised to the op for hijacking the thread as a discussion I was in heated up. I have strong opinions in a lot of things. Anyway I don't mean to offend on this forum or any other and I'm sorry if I have! Moving on

pedronomix

Axwell wrote: »

Mod Note:

This will be the one and only note on the topic.

David, 16 and arrogant..you have been sent a warning. As someone else pointed out the good will you receive for being young and enthusiastic will only last so long when you counteract it with some of the nonsense you have posted in the last 24 hours. Take the warning onboard, keep the posts on topic and if you dont have anything of benefit to add to a thread then resist the urge to just post on it for the sake of it.

That includes the urge to reply to this post, its not up for discussion.

Pedronomix put the spoon away and stop stirring with pointless posts.

Please be specific, as to which post on this thread you refer. Perish the thought that any prejudice may be at play here!