Liverpool Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP 28/8

redzerdrog

the reason Allen made such a positive impact was a lot due to a change in formation once he came on, he was playing a different role to Lucas

martyos121

City fans chanting about Stevie G when they're playing against Newcastle.
Not the brightest, are they? :rolleyes:

MD1990

My player ratings.

Mignolet 6 - Looked very skhaky under crosses & doesn't inspire confidence. Brillant save near the end though.

Manquillo 7 - Started the game nervously & isn't at full fitness. But was very good in the 2nd half. Think he will be an excellent RB for us. Big difference in attitude to Johnson.
Skrtel 7.5 - He was superb. Only mistake he made was near the end when Pele outmuscled him. Brillant at winning duels.

Lovren 7.5 - Excellent debut. Very strong & defends on the front foot & very good with the ball at feet.

Johnson 4 - Another laboured performance. Its as if he doesn't want to sprint any more. Moreno in ASAP.

Gerrard 5 - Played some decent balls to Sturridge. But doesn't know how to position himself to stop balls being slipped in to the hole. Was leggy too.

Lucas 5 - Was ok in the first half. But tired badly in the 2nd & passing was poor.

Henderson 6 - Great ball for Sterling's goal. Worked very hard but was out of position we need him in the centre.

Coutinho 5.5 - Struggled to get into the game & his passing was a bit off.

Sterling 7 - He had a good game. Great composure for the goal & good assist for Sturridge. Should try & get him to rotate into the centre more.

Sturridge 6.5 - Not his greatest game. His hold up play is usually better. We really missed Suarez's ability to hold on to high balls up the pitch. He seemed not at full fitness today but a good poacher's goal.

Allen 6.5 - Added some mobilty to midfield & a big improvement on Lucas.

Lambert 6 - Some decent touches but not much involved.

Raif Severance

livinginkorea wrote: »

Come on Cou is hardly slow!

He did well despite being pretty much marked out of the game. He needs someone to give him more support.

Gerrard was too deep. I know he is great with the passes here and there but I would love to see him coming on in games rather than starting them. He's doesn't have the legs.

Lucas shouldn't be in this team.

Just to make it Clear, Cou was the Frail, Lucas and Gerrard the Slow, in that Post.

The Reason why I think those 3 shouldn't be played together, is that Teams knows that Gerrard and Lucas are both Holding Midfielders. They rarely, if ever, ventures Forward and brings the Ball with them. It usually Pass the Ball, for them.

And because of that, Teams will always have an Extra Man, squeezing out whoever Receives their Pass. And in this Game, that's Cou.

That's why whenever we try to do something in their Final 3rd, it always breaks down.

We needed another Midfielder to provide the Thrust, and make us less Predictable. Thankfully, Rodgers saw that too, and inserted Allen in.

daRobot

martyos121 wrote: »

City fans chanting about Stevie G when they're playing against Newcastle.
Not the brightest, are they? :rolleyes:

I know, couldn't believe that...

Pilsbury Doughboy

We are(joint) top of the league, I said we are (joint)top of league!

Bray Header

tomaussie wrote: »

I'd rather thank Mingolet for an amazing save.

Amazing that we've possibly seen save and assist of the season on the first day!

Fescue

MD1990 wrote: »

My player ratings.

Mignolet 6 - Looked very skhaky under crosses & doesn't inspire confidence. Brillant save near the end though.

Manquillo 7 - Started the game nervously & isn't at full fitness. But was very good in the 2nd half. Think he will be an excellent RB for us. Big difference in attitude to Johnson.
Skrtel 7.5 - He was superb. Only mistake he made was near the end when Pele outmuscled him. Brillant at winning duels.

Lovren 7.5 - Excellent debut. Very strong & defends on the front foot & very good with the ball at feet.

Johnson 4 - Another laboured performance. Its as if he doesn't want to sprint any more. Moreno in ASAP.

Gerrard 5 - Played some decent balls to Sturridge. But doesn't know how to position himself to stop balls being slipped in to the hole. Was leggy too.

Lucas 5 - Was ok in the first half. But tired badly in the 2nd & passing was poor.

Henderson 6 - Great ball for Sterling's goal. Worked very hard but was out of position we need him in the centre.

Coutinho 5.5 - Struggled to get into the game & his passing was a bit off.

Sterling 7 - He had a good game. Great composure for the goal & good assist for Sturridge. Should try & get him to rotate into the centre more.

Sturridge 6.5 - Not his greatest game. His hold up play is usually better. We really missed Suarez's ability to hold on to high balls up the pitch. He seemed not at full fitness today but a good poacher's goal.

Allen 6.5 - Added some mobilty to midfield & a big improvement on Lucas.

Lambert 6 - Some decent touches but not much involved.

Agree for the most part. Would probably push Henderson to 7.5 also. Worked tirelessly and set up the first goal.

Soft Falling Rain

Jako8 wrote: »

Secret message on the L'pool bench.

I've spent the past 10 mins trying to work this out.

Washington Irving

Talisman wrote: »

Gerrard was also poor, he sat too deep and it created the space for the Southampton midfield.

Given that Lovren can distribute the ball from the back, there's really no need for the "quarter back" in the line up. The team need energy in midfield and today both Gerrard and Lucas were passengers for the most part.

Agreed, though I don't think Gerrard was near as poor as Lucas. I seriously doubt Gerrard is going to be dropped from our first choice XI. I've been in favour of phasing him out for the last 18 months or so (second half of last season notwithstanding) but I don't think it's going to happen for another year.

Gerrard and Lucas are both far too limited, particularly in pace and energy like you say, to play together. Would much prefer a better DM alongside Henderson and Allen/Can/Lallana with Gerrard as back up, but we have to make do. With what we currently Gerrard is not going to be losing out.

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

I've spent the past 10 mins trying to work this out.

Just look at the spellings. It doesn't work if you pronounce the names correctly.

Zapp Brannigan

Sturridge seemed to be out of position a lot today. Would rather he stayed up front and became an outlet ball than coming deep.

djPSB

daithijjj wrote: »

The problem today was the following, it wasnt anyone else. Nobody knows what these two players are going to do and it interupts everything else imo.

Squawka Football @Squawka · 24m
Glen Johnson and Lucas Leiva didn't win a single tackle between them for Liverpool against Southampton today. #LFC

And they were absolutely sh1te on the ball.

djPSB

redzerdrog wrote: »

the reason Allen made such a positive impact was a lot due to a change in formation once he came on, he was playing a different role to Lucas

And he can run.

Fowler87

Great to start with a very important win. Not the best performance but at least the cobwebs are off now and we can "go again"

djPSB

Fescue wrote: »

Agree for the most part. Would probably push Henderson to 7.5 also. Worked tirelessly and set up the first goal.

And Mignolet deserves more than 6 despite a few shaky moments.

mav79

A DM alongside Gerrard might plug the holes when defending and breaking up play, but when we have the ball we need someone to move forward into space to receive passes or carry the ball forward. Gerrard is always going to stay back which means you are relying on a DM to get forward.

tomaussie

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

I've spent the past 10 mins trying to work this out.

Can Ibe Lambert is an anagram of 'nimble catbear'. Is that it ?

Flincher

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

I've spent the past 10 mins trying to work this out.

Can I be Lambert?

Washington Irving

mav79 wrote: »

A DM alongside Gerrard might plug the holes when defending and breaking up play, but when we have the ball we need someone to move forward into space to receive passes or carry the ball forward. Gerrard is always going to stay back which means you are relying on a DM to get forward.

If anyone can play that role it's probably Emre Can, but if Rodgers thinks Gerrard needs a DM partner then Gerrard should not be playing. He doesn't offer near enough to be catering the team to his shortcomings.

tomaussie

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

I've spent the past 10 mins trying to work this out.

Or maybe it was Taider Isgrove Long being an anagram of 'gingered violators'.

Raif Severance

mav79 wrote: »

A DM alongside Gerrard might plug the holes when defending and breaking up play, but when we have the ball we need someone to move forward into space to receive passes or carry the ball forward. Gerrard is always going to stay back which means you are relying on a DM to get forward.

Uhm... that's actually the Position that Gerrard is playing right now. Besides, what you're asking, is akin to having a DM to the DM.

Kinda like what happened in that Game, since both Gerrard and Lucas were basically playing as our DMs.

That's also the Reason why I think, that the Gerrard and Lucas Partnership, simply doesn't work Since both of them, likes to occupy the same places and do the same things, making us too Predictable to the other Teams.

And as Good as Hendo is, he can't do all the Donkey-work.

As long as Gerrard is playing, I don't think we'll ever get a Pure DM. It'll be more in the Vein of someone like Can. Someone that can Break-up plays, Spread the Ball, or be Box-to-Box.

mav79

Washington Irving wrote: »

If anyone can play that role it's probably Emre Can, but if Rodgers thinks Gerrard needs a DM partner then Gerrard should not be playing. He doesn't offer near enough to be catering the team to his shortcomings.

I'd prefer if Can was bought more for the future, I'd love if we signed someone like Matuidi or even Sissoko from Newcastle. Probably too much to ask for unless there is a buyer for Lucas.

Benimar

Sterling MoM obviously. Thought Henderson played well, and played a great ball for the first goal.

Lucas was poor. The first 15 minutes of the second half he was like a pub player. Glen Johnson was beyond stink, he simply has to be dropped.

The elephant in the room is Gerrard. Defensively, he doesn't have it to play the position and I feel Rodgers has a big call ahead in the not too distant future. This isn't just a reaction to today, last season when we had to defend (eg at Palace) Gerrard was poor.

He's great at spraying it around and linking defence and midfield when we have the ball but out of possession he's becoming a problem.

Soft Falling Rain

Flincher wrote: »

Can I be Lambert?

That's what I thought but was lookinh for something smarter. :pac:

Speaking of Rickie, he didn't look too bad in his cameo. Maybe my opinion is skewed by the winner coming immediately after his intro though. :pac:

mav79

Raif Severance wrote: »

Uhm... that's actually the Position that Gerrard is playing right now. Besides, what you're asking, is akin to having a DM to the DM.

Kinda like what happened in that Game, since both Gerrard and Lucas were basically playing as our DMs.

That's also the Reason why I think, that the Gerrard and Lucas Partnership, simply doesn't work Since both of them, likes to occupy the same places and do the same things, making us too Predictable to the other Teams.

And as Good as Hendo is, he can't do all the Donkey-work.

As long as Gerrard is playing, I don't think we'll ever get a Pure DM. It'll be more in the Vein of someone like Can. Someone that can Break-up plays, Spread the Ball, or be Box-to-Box.

Thats the point I was making. Gerrard and a DM does not work if trying to win games, might close out games but there are too many players sitting deep when we have the ball.

citytillidie

martyos121 wrote: »

City fans chanting about Stevie G when they're playing against Newcastle.
Not the brightest, are they? :rolleyes:

Same as their city neighbours yesterday

Soft Falling Rain

I don't see the big deal in signing an actual DM and deploying Stevie in a more advanced role, one where he's used more sparingly and that won't demand as much.

Raif Severance

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

I don't see the big deal in signing an actual DM and deploying Stevie in a more advanced role, one where he's used more sparingly and that won't demand as much.

I doubt he'd play further up.

Didn't he move to DM/Sweeper, so he could Preserve and Lengthen his Career?

Kerrigooney

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

I don't see the big deal in signing an actual DM and deploying Stevie in a more advanced role, one where he's used more sparingly and that won't demand as much.

And where exactly would that be?

Super-Rush

Gbear wrote: »

Lucas used to be happy to get the ball on his own in midfield and start us playing. He could handle pressure from even 2 or 3 players trying to press and he could run or pass his way out of danger, break the press in doing so and give us momentum.
Nowadays he seems to need Gerrard or someone else to take it off him and make them start the plays for him. That leaves nobody next to Coutinho and generally very little staying power in the opponent's half.
That's what Allen did so well when he came on. He didn't have to run through half a dozen challenges or play a blind backheel throughball off his arse. That's what our other attackers are for.

Lucas' defensive contributions don't outweigh the negatives; nothing provided in possession and, when paired with Gerrard, gaping holes left all over midfield.

Against a midfield with Schneiderlin and Wanayama it just seems like suicide. Hopefully it was a fitness thing with our other midfielders - Can came off at half time against Dortmund, Allen seems a bit delicate in general and obvious Lallana wasn't available.

Lucas is a DM, defensive midfielder.

His job is to do the ugly thing such as break up play, put in tackles, win the ball back and pass it to the more creative players.

Its the same job as Fernandinho, Fernando, Matic, Medel, Barry etc do for their teams.

He doesn't need Gerrard beside him, Gerrard needs Lucas to do the donkey work and give him the ball, which he done today but Gerrard done very little when he had possession.

Lucas is becoming a very easy target and its laziness from people.
Gerrard was steamrolled a lot last season when Lucas wasn't playing. So who's fault was it then?

Harry Palmr

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

I don't see the big deal in signing an actual DM and deploying Stevie in a more advanced role, one where he's used more sparingly and that won't demand as much.

The only reason Gerrard is where he is, is to keep him in the team, push him higher and that would mean most likely one of Coutinho/Lallana/Hendo (assuming Sterling is now undroppable) would be dropped - is that what you want?

Speak Now

MD1990 wrote: »

Thought Lovren was superb. Manquillo improved as the game wore on and will be a good RB for us. Midfield was poor. Too easy to get in the hole with our midfield. We obviously need another top class striker.

Lovern was asleep for the goal though.

Fescue

If Gerrard is to continue in the role he is currently playing, then having two box to box midfielders in front of him is a necessity. Henderson plus one of Can or Allen. Perhaps Lallana can also contribute in this area.

If someone is to come in for Gerrard from time to time, then Lucas is probably best suited to the role tactically.

ebbsy

New players introduced, did'nt play well, but won. I will take that.

Before Rodgers we were drawing or losing these games.

Gbear

Super-Rush wrote: »

Lucas is a DM, defensive midfielder.

His job is to do the ugly thing such as break up play, put in tackles, win the ball back and pass it to the more creative players.

Its the same job as Fernandinho, Fernando, Matic, Medel, Barry etc do for their teams.

He doesn't need Gerrard beside him, Gerrard needs Lucas to do the donkey work and give him the ball, which he done today but Gerrard done very little when he had possession.

Lucas is becoming a very easy target and its laziness from people.
Gerrard was steamrolled a lot last season when Lucas wasn't playing. So who's fault was it then?

I don't think a team at the top level can afford as limited a DM as that.

If you look at top quality DMs - Mascherano, Schweinsteiger, Busquets - they can actually make some use of the ball.

Lucas doesn't look like he can anymore. He's too slow and ponderous on the ball.

Ideally we'd have neither in midfield but at least Gerrard can assist, pass at any range and take both indirect and direct set pieces.

5starpool

Assuming pictures are allowed from games, this is a great pic. Hendo's face is priceless.

Raif Severance

Super-Rush wrote: »

Lucas is a DM, defensive midfielder.

His job is to do the ugly thing such as break up play, put in tackles, win the ball back and pass it to the more creative players.

Its the same job as Fernandinho, Fernando, Matic, Medel, Barry etc do for their teams.

He doesn't need Gerrard beside him, Gerrard needs Lucas to do the donkey work and give him the ball, which he done today but Gerrard done very little when he had possession.

Lucas is becoming a very easy target and its laziness from people.
Gerrard was steamrolled a lot last season when Lucas wasn't playing. So who's fault was it then?

Yup.

Lucas can still play for us, whenever Gerrard is Rested. It's just that, both of them can never be played together.

You're basically asking Lucas to do Box-to-Box for you, which sadly he can't.

Not to mention, this also puts Strain on both Cou and Hendo. Since both have to Drop deep just to get on the Ball, since Gerrard and Lucas are not going to bring it Forward.

Hopefully this Game was just an Experiment by Rodgers, and he starts the next Game, with either Allen or Can to partner up Gerrard.

Super-Rush

Gbear wrote: »

I don't think a team at the top level can afford as limited a DM as that.

If you look at top quality DMs - Mascherano, Schweinsteiger, Busquets - they can actually make some use of the ball.

Lucas doesn't look like he can anymore. He's too slow and ponderous on the ball.

Ideally we'd have neither in midfield but at least Gerrard can assist, pass at any range and take both indirect and direct set pieces.

But he cannot defend. If he is still going to be picked then Lucas needs to play and i think Rodgers has realised that.

Our best midfield display last season was with Lucas, Allen and Henderson against Spurs.

Soft Falling Rain

Sorry lads, I should have clarified that ideally, I'd like an actual DM in with Stevie benched to bring on when needed.

For example, Coutinho showed today that for all his flash last weekend against Dortmund that he's still inconsistent. When he has that kind of game, or anyone else in the attacking line, Stevie would be a quality option to have to bring on and change a game.

Someone said the only reason Stevie is playing DM is to keep him in the team. You're probably right, but it's still disgraceful reasoning.

Super-Rush

Raif Severance wrote: »

Yup.

Lucas can still play for us, whenever Gerrard is Rested. It's just that, both of them can never be played together.

You're basically asking Lucas to do Box-to-Box for you, which sadly he can't.

Not to mention, this also puts Strain on both Cou and Hendo. Since both have to Drop deep just to get on the Ball, since Gerrard and Lucas are not going to bring it Forward.

Hopefully this Game was just an Experiment by Rodgers, and he starts the next Game, with either Allen or Can to partner up Gerrard.

No i'm looking for Lucas to play in front of the back four to break up play and pass the ball to Gerrard in a more advanced position. Lucas shouldn't need to leave his own half and Henderson has the pace to get back and help out when Gerrard is unable to.

whatawaster

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

Sorry lads, I should have clarified that ideally, I'd like an actual DM in with Stevie benched to bring on when needed.

For example, Coutinho showed today that for all his flash last weekend against Dortmund that he's still inconsistent. When he has that kind of game, or anyone else in the attacking line, Stevie would be a quality option to have to bring on and change a game.

Someone said the only reason Stevie is playing DM is to keep him in the team. You're probably right, but it's still disgraceful reasoning.

We have already taken Suarez goals and assists from the team. Simply can't afford not to have Gerrard in there for that reason

He has also just come off an excellent season at DM. The key is who he is partnered with.

Raif Severance

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

Sorry lads, I should have clarified that ideally, I'd lile an actual DM in with Stevie benched to bring on when needed.

For example, Coutinho showed today that for all his flash last weekend against Dortmund that he's still inconsistent. When he has that kind of game, or anyone else in the attacking line, Stevie would be a quality option to have to bring on and change a game.

Someone said the only reason Stevie is playing DM is to keep him in the team. You're probably right, but it's still disgraceful reasoning.

In fairness to Cou, he was beng Marshalled by 2 Soton Players in that Game, whenever he Receives the Ball.

There were no other Midfielders near him, since both Lucas and Gerrard were sitting too deep and offering no Support to him. And Hendo, in that Formation, is usually found at RW.

Dont be at yourself

Our defensive problems weren't Gerrard's fault. Today, we completely lacked intensity, and let Southampton flood forward far too easily. None of our attackers were hassling Southampton, and it allowed the likes of Clyne to get forward far too often.

I don't know if it was fitness, or players missing Suarez's example, or a tactical choice by Brendao, but whatever it was, it was the whole team underperforming defensively, not just Gerrard.

googled eyes

Missed the match. Is it worth watching online or will I wait for MOTD 2 tonight ?

Raif Severance

Super-Rush wrote: »

No i'm looking for Lucas to play in front of the back four to break up play and pass the ball to Gerrard in a more advanced position. Lucas shouldn't need to leave his own half and Henderson has the pace to get back and help out when Gerrard is unable to.

Will never happen. And I don't think he has the Legs for it.

noodler

Yes, Gerrard was decent last season.

Lets not let the two world cup games and all the associated media comments take away from that.

We lacked serious urgency today without the buck-tooth genius.

Washington Irving

noodler wrote: »

Yes, Gerrard was decent last season.

Lets not let the two world cup games and all the associated media comments take away from that.

We lacked serious urgency today without the buck-tooth genius.

He was good in the second half of the season after he was shifted to a more defensive role and we started to really believe we could win the league. He was piss poor up to the new year and there were plenty of calls for him to be dropped.

Soft Falling Rain

Raif Severance wrote: »

Will never happen. And I don't think he has the Legs for it.

In his current role he's trying to cover the whole defence and support the attack, that requires a lot of legs underneath in theory. An advanced role, where he doesn't have to worry about defensive duties and where he's used sparingly would require a lot less endurance while still reaping the benefits of his talent.

5live

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

Sorry lads, I should have clarified that ideally, I'd like an actual DM in with Stevie benched to bring on when needed.

For example, Coutinho showed today that for all his flash last weekend against Dortmund that he's still inconsistent. When he has that kind of game, or anyone else in the attacking line, Stevie would be a quality option to have to bring on and change a game.

Someone said the only reason Stevie is playing DM is to keep him in the team. You're probably right, but it's still disgraceful reasoning.

Unfair on Coutinho, tbh.

Wanyama and Scheiderlin both closed him down quickly when he got the ball. Its something he will have to learn to combat this year if he is to progress.

It will be interesting to see how Brendao sets up to try to counter it.

whatawaster

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

In his current role he's trying to cover the whole defence and support the attack, that requires a lot of legs underneath in theory. An advanced role, where he doesn't have to worry about defensive duties and where he's used sparingly would require a lot less endurance while still reaping the benefits of his talent.

Would ruin the whole balance of our team. Our best performances have been about Suarez, Sterling, Sturridge, Coutinho and Henderson running their socks off and winning possession high up the pitch