Liverpool Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP 28/8

Nerdlingr

As I posted yesterday, you'd then have three new players in a back four, two new full backs who never played in England before, with little or no English to communicate with the rest of the team, playing away to the champions. It would have been crazy to Start Manquillo and Moreno last night.
All city's goals came down our left hand side. Say what you like about Johnson but his defensive positioning last night was spot on. Nasri and Silva had to drift right to get any joy from us.

Agent Coulson

Kharrell wrote: »

But that's the ideal scenario. Johnson is a detriment to the team now. I genuinely don't think I am over simplifying things, but I do think anyone who is a right back by trade in Liverpool's squad is a better option than Johnson at this stage. I know Liverpool have loaned and sold Wisdom and Kelly respectively, but them two, Flanagan and Manquillo should all be head of him. Experience is all well and good if you can back it up, and Johnson offers nothing at either end of the pitch, for club or country.

While limited first team experience, Manquillo was signed a month ago if I recall correctly, and he has been training with the first team ever since and again, he looked good vs Southampton. Would have stuck with him myself.

Manquillo was ok against Southampton nothing more for me. As was stated in a post above he would have been taken to the cleaners last night if he had played.

Flanagan is looked at with rose tinted glasses he is a good player to have on the bench and squad as he can cover both fullback positions, But I really don't think is is good enough to be a regalur first team starter.

Kelly was sold because he never recovered from his injuries and like Lucas he will never reach the same level he once had.

Wisdom I don't think Rodgers rates him hence the reason he has been sent on loan for two straight seasons.

As I have said before Rodgers needs to be blamed as much as Johnson for constantly playing a player who is not up to top level football anymore. Rodgers has had three transfer windows to do something about Johnson and all he has done is get an inexperienced 20 year old on loan.

K-9

Johnson was probably the right call all right, Manquillo would have been too much of a risk with Moreno starting his first game and Lovren not long in. Still, my God, Glen was simply shocking again though, even simple passes weren't coming of for him.

It's just very, very early to be talking about missing out on top 4 and what that means for Rodgers. In his 2 seasons he had one bad start (albeit a tough fixture list) and a good start. Both times he proved the critics wrong.

1. The form in the second half of his first season was top 4 form. (Critics called it meaningless)

2. The form in the second half of last season was title winning form. (Critics thought we wouldn't get top 4)

So talking about it all going wrong is very premature and a bit silly for me at 2 games in! Personally I'm prepared for a 5/6th place finish and maybe not getting out of the CL group if it's a tough draw. But Rodgers has shown enough in his 2 seasons to suggest he is more than capable of getting us top 4 and to the knock out stages.

It's a bit crazy even thinking about him getting sacked. We are underdogs to get 4th and he's up against 3 very experienced managers and 2 up and coming managers just like himself. I wouldn't want to be doing a Spurs or Chelsea and getting rid too soon.

Utopia Parkway

K-9 wrote: »

It's a bit crazy even thinking about him getting sacked. We are underdogs to get 4th and he's up against 3 very experienced managers and 2 up and coming managers just like himself. I wouldn't want to be doing a Spurs or Chelsea and getting rid too soon.

In fairness it was only one poster who mentioned the possibility of him getting sacked. Not hard to guess who it was.

Kharrell

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Manquillo was ok against Southampton nothing more for me. As was stated in a post above he would have been taken to the cleaners last night if he had played.

Flanagan is looked at with rose tinted glasses he is a good player to have on the bench and squad as he can cover both fullback positions, But I really don't think is is good enough to be a regalur first team starter.

Kelly was sold because he never recovered from his injuries and like Lucas he will never reach the same level he once had.

Wisdom I don't think Rodgers rates him hence the reason he has been sent on loan for two straight seasons.

As I have said before Rodgers needs to be blamed as much as Johnson for constantly playing a player who is not up to top level football anymore. Rodgers has had three transfer windows to do something about Johnson and all he has done is get an inexperienced 20 year old on loan.

I think most full backs would be really up against it against Man City after the first 25 minutes, to be fair.

I agree with you on Rodgers having take some of the flak here. I thought a West Ham or QPR might be silly enough to take him off Liverpool's hands this summer, if not the last one if I'm honest.

robz150

Frustrating game last night - City looked strong but so they should be, with the players that they have they should be favourites for every premier league game.

We looked vulnerable at the back but I'm impressed with Lovren and Moreno its just going to take a bit of time and I look forward to seeing more of Manquillo. Theres a few that will be dissappointed with their performance but city moved the ball well and made the midfield work hard. Markovic and Can had a good impact when they came on and there was a spell between the consolation and Johnson going off that city switched off and looked vulnerable.

Played well in patches but after the first goal it was all about hoping for result rather than believing we could get something. Learn from it and move on to the next game is all you can do. I expect the spurs game to be a lot closer than last time :pac:

Talisman

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I said last night and I still believe it today Brendan Rodgers is just as much to blame with regards to Johnson.

It has been plain to see for the best part of a year now that Johnson isn't up to playing at level needed for a team competeing for top 4 and CL.

But Rodgers keeps persisting with him to the detriment of the team, I am now think he will do the same with Gerrard as well.

A defence with Johnson in it and Gerrard covering is not and will not be good enough.

Shortly after Rodgers became manager he mentioned in an interview that there were individuals in the squad who didn't fit his playing style and he would have to adapt the tactics to suit. At the time people were thinking he was referring to Carroll and Downing but that was proven not to be the case. Gerrard is the only member of the squad that had to be accommodated, everyone else that didn't fit has been moved on.

So long as Gerrard is the club captain, he will feel he has the right to start every league or big game he's available for. I think he'll realise for himself that he'll have to give up that right when the Champions League starts because he won't be able to play three competitive games in eight days on a regular basis.

Sept 13 - Premier League - H - Aston Villa
Sept 16/17 - Champions League - Match 1
Sept 20 - Premier League - A - West Ham

Sept 27 - Premier League - H - Everton
Sept 30/Oct 01- Champions League - Match 2
Oct 04 - Premier League - H - West Brom

Oct 19 - Premier League - A - QPR
Oct 21/22- Champions League - Match 3
Oct 25 - Premier League - H - Hull

Nov 01 - Premier League - A - Newcastle
Nov 04/05- Champions League - Match 4
Non 08 - Premier League - H - Chelsea

Nov 23 - Premier League - A - Crystal Palace
Nov 25/26- Champions League - Match 5
Nov 29 - Premier League - H - Stoke

Dec 06 - Premier League - H - Sunderland
Dec 09/10- Champions League - Match 6
Dec 13 - Premier League - A - Man Utd

I think Rodgers is persisting with Johnson out of necessity at the moment. There's no way we were going to start last night's game with the two new fullbacks in the team.

viper006

billymitchell wrote: »

I find it astounding the love the new lads are getting around here, with having only seeing them play less than a handful of times.
Best thing BR could do would be to ease the new guys into the team, see how they are performing before starting them on a regular basis. Most of the new guys we bought are young, so I would defo use that tactic with them. Lallana and Lambert I wouldnt be so worried about starting them as they are bit older and know what Liverpool and the premier league is all about.

This is a good point. Posters demanding johnson be dropped in favour of a young new signing with almost 0 first team action is abit mad. I cant put my finger on it but i feel more nervous about our defence now than i was last season. We really cant afford to lose vs spurs as well next week having set the bar last season against then with class performances.

Gbear

viper006 wrote: »

This is a good point. Posters demanding johnson be dropped in favour of a young new signing with almost 0 first team action is abit mad. I cant put my finger on it but i feel more nervous about our defence now than i was last season. We really cant afford to lose vs spurs as well next week having set the bar last season against then with class performances.

It almost doesn't matter how good Manquillo is when Johnson is playing this badly. He has to be an improvement.

tok9

Exactly.

Last night may be the nail in the coffin for Johnson depending on how long he is out.

By the time he is back Manquillo and Flanagan will hopefully both be fit and after a few games. I'm confident both will show more than Johnson has so I can't see him getting back into the team.

Sir Gallagher

Talisman wrote: »

Shortly after Rodgers became manager he mentioned in an interview that there were individuals in the squad who didn't fit his playing style and he would have to adapt the tactics to suit. At the time people were thinking he was referring to Carroll and Downing but that was proven not to be the case. Gerrard is the only member of the squad that had to be accommodated, everyone else that didn't fit has been moved on.

So long as Gerrard is the club captain, he will feel he has the right to start every league or big game he's available for. I think he'll realise for himself that he'll have to give up that right when the Champions League starts because he won't be able to play three competitive games in eight days on a regular basis.

Sept 13 - Premier League - H - Aston Villa
Sept 16/17 - Champions League - Match 1
Sept 20 - Premier League - A - West Ham

Sept 27 - Premier League - H - Everton
Sept 30/Oct 01- Champions League - Match 2
Oct 04 - Premier League - H - West Brom

Oct 19 - Premier League - A - QPR
Oct 21/22- Champions League - Match 3
Oct 25 - Premier League - H - Hull

Nov 01 - Premier League - A - Newcastle
Nov 04/05- Champions League - Match 4
Non 08 - Premier League - H - Chelsea

Nov 23 - Premier League - A - Crystal Palace
Nov 25/26- Champions League - Match 5
Nov 29 - Premier League - H - Stoke

Dec 06 - Premier League - H - Sunderland
Dec 09/10- Champions League - Match 6
Dec 13 - Premier League - A - Man Utd

None of our players will be able to play in all those games, thats what having a squad is all about. If Gerrard is fit he will start every one of the CL matches.

Knex*

A few weeks back I had said that Johnson would be "grand". But Jesus, his last two performances have been absolute muck. Its painful.

Augmerson

CL Group stage Draw in 2 days?

Utopia Parkway

Knex. wrote: »

A few weeks back I had said that Johnson would be "grand". But Jesus, his last two performances have been absolute muck. Its painful.

Just looks disinterested, unmotivated, etc. Whatever you want to call it. Slow in thought and deed. Seems a bit pudgy as well.

gafferino

Augmerson wrote: »

CL Group stage Draw in 2 days?

Yep Thursday IIRC

viper006

Gbear wrote: »

It almost doesn't matter how good Manquillo is when Johnson is playing this badly. He has to be an improvement.

Ya i have to admit i lost count of the times johnson lost the momentum of our attack with a poor pass and decision making. I remember not that long ago bredan said he hopes johnson extends his contract so looks like we may be stuck with him for awhile.

Fescue

viper006 wrote: »

Ya i have to admit i lost count of the times johnson lost the momentum of our attack with a poor pass and decision making. I remember not that long ago bredan said he hopes johnson extends his contract so looks like we may be stuck with him for awhile.

Is there any news on his injury? As much as he drives me mad, I would be very apprehensive about starting Manquillo and Moreno at Spurs.

Mind you Moreno could be out also. 3-5-2 a possibility perhaps.

robz150

Fescue wrote: »

Is there any news on his injury? As much as he drives me mad, I would be very apprehensive about starting Manquillo and Moreno at Spurs.

Mind you Moreno could be out also. 3-5-2 a possibility perhaps.

Sakho at left back? or Agger if he is still there:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/aug/26/daniel-agger-liverpool-future-uncertain

(Oh Agger still injured)

Sir Gallagher

Fescue wrote: »

Is there any news on his injury? As much as he drives me mad, I would be very apprehensive about starting Manquillo and Moreno at Spurs.

Mind you Moreno could be out also. 3-5-2 a possibility perhaps.

More importantly, any news on Flanagans injury? I'd be worried about throwing Manquillo straight in there, but Johnson is such a non-entity at the moment i'd have Jan Kromkamp in ahead of him.

Talisman

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

None of our players will be able to play in all those games, thats what having a squad is all about. If Gerrard is fit he will start every one of the CL matches.

Never mentioned anything about players playing every game. Of course Gerrard will want to play in all of the Champions League games, but will he be able to recover in time to play in the case of the game immediately after the derby with Everton? Will he be fit to play against Chelsea or Man Utd following the Champions League midweek game? He won't be keen to sit out those games either. There was a time when you would dread not having Gerrard on the pitch for any of those games but not any more.

PhiloCypher

tok9 wrote: »

Last night may be the nail in the coffin for Johnson depending on how long he is out.

By the time he is back Manquillo and Flanagan will hopefully both be fit and after a few games. I'm confident both will show more than Johnson has so I can't see him getting back into the team.

I must confess when he initially pulled up injured I was thinking, the games over as a contest, only minutes to go, he knows he had a mare and will soon be warming the bench. Is he intentionally feigning injury so that when Rodgers drops him for a kid new to the league in the next game it's not so embarrassing? . Then it dawned on me we'd made all our substitutions and whatever I may think of Glen the footballer I don't think he would leave his team mates a man down like that.

Calvin

Talisman wrote: »

Never mentioned anything about players playing every game. Of course Gerrard will want to play in all of the Champions League games, but will he be able to recover in time to play in the case of the game immediately after the derby with Everton? Will he be fit to play against Chelsea or Man Utd following the Champions League midweek game? He won't be keen to sit out those games either. There was a time when you would dread not having Gerrard on the pitch for any of those games but not any more.

I still think Gerrard is a key player in our game. I thought yesterday, he was one of the few that actually performed well. We'll definitely miss his accurate, long range passing for whichever games he sits out.

viper006

Fescue wrote: »

Is there any news on his injury? As much as he drives me mad, I would be very apprehensive about starting Manquillo and Moreno at Spurs.

Mind you Moreno could be out also. 3-5-2 a possibility perhaps.

Rodgers seemed to suggest after the match Johnson could be out for a period of time with a thigh injury.

Sturridge was out for 2-3 weeks last season with a similar injury I believe.




louvren,Moreno and manquillo in the starting defensive could be a huge risk as they have about 4 games in total between them for the club.

Could see srktel moving our rb and louvren and sak playing in the centre if Moreno is fit and Johnson out.

Daemonic

I only recall Skrtel playing once at RB and it was such a disaster I'd see Manquillo as less of a risk.

Cjs21

I think we should play a 3-3-2-2 at some stage during the year and see how it works.

Mignolet
Skrtel, Sakho, Lovren
Hendo, Gerrard, Lallana
Sterling, Markovic
Sturridge, Balotelli

Dickerty

Cjs21 wrote: »

I think we should play a 3-3-2-2 at some stage during the year and see how it works.

Mignolet
Skrtel, Sakho, Lovren
Hendo, Gerrard, Lallana
Sterling, Markovic
Sturridge, Balotelli

Yeh, maybe we could do that - in training!

Nerdlingr

Toure has played there in the past. Might even see Henderson do a job there.

Harry Palmr

Daemonic wrote: »

I only recall Skrtel playing once at RB and it was such a disaster I'd see Manquillo as less of a risk.

Twas against Spurs. 4-0 he got sent off I think.

Sir Gallagher

Daemonic wrote: »

I only recall Skrtel playing once at RB and it was such a disaster I'd see Manquillo as less of a risk.

Pretty sure that was against Boro? In one of the worst performances i've ever seen from a Liverpool team.

K-9

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Twas against Spurs. 4-0 he got sent off I think.

Think so, ended up with 9 men IIRC.

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Pretty sure that was against Boro? In one of the worst performances i've ever seen from a Liverpool team.

Might have been 9 men in that one as well! One of those games were everything that could go wrong went wrong.

Sir Gallagher

Yeah he played right-full in both games, i think it's safe to say he's not a viable option for that position. Martin is the type of player who is capable of losing the plot when he's out of his comfort zone.

Just had a quick look at the match report from that Boro game.

"Stewart Downing clearly enjoyed playing against stand-in right-back Martin Skrtel and was able to get behind Liverpool's back line almost at will, yet his delivery and decision making constantly let him down."

20m worth of player right there.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Yeah he played right-full in both games, i think it's safe to say he's not a viable option for that position. Martin is the type of player who is capable of losing the plot when he's out of his comfort zone.

Just had a quick look at the match report from that Boro game.

"Stewart Downing clearly enjoyed playing against stand-in right-back Martin Skrtel and was able to get behind Liverpool's back line almost at will, yet his delivery and decision making constantly let him down."

20m worth of player right there.

That;s because he wan;t tryign to put the damn thing in a wheelie-bin.

dogbert27

NEDDURC wrote: »

Abit annoying we have Spurs up next, feels like we could do with a few easier games

Yeah, like United's easy 2 opening fixtures!! :pac::D

Hangballlouie

Knex. wrote: »

A few weeks back I had said that Johnson would be "grand". But Jesus, his last two performances have been absolute muck. Its painful.

You really are a sap. I knew it was your fault, even when I didn't know, I knew.

Harry Palmr

League Cup action tonight, not for Liverpool of course being in the CHAMPIONS LEAGUE but still there are still players to keep an eye on not least in the match up between Swindon and Brighton where Brad Smith and Joao Carlos Teixeia could meet.

Andre Wisdoms WBA play lowly Oxford Utd, recent old boys Martin Kelly and Conor Coady could also be playing (v Walsall and West Ham respectively)

Old assistant manager news - Pako Ayestarán has taken over at Maccabi Tel Aviv as Oscar Garcia runs out!

Origi starts for Lille who are 0-1 down playing away to Porto.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Harry Palmr wrote: »

League Cup action tonight, not for Liverpool of course being in the CHAMPIONS LEAGUE but still there are still players to keep an eye on not least in the match up between Swindon and Brighton where Brad Smith and Joao Carlos Teixeia could meet.

Andre Wisdoms WBA play lowly Oxford Utd, recent old boys Martin Kelly and Conor Coady could also be playing (v Walsall and West Ham respectively)

Don't Man U have to paly in it?

rob316

Rodgers made a very good point about how he is confident in handling Balotelli. He loves coaching young players and has spent 20 years coaching at academies, he has done this is whole life working with the unfinished players.

Been so young we forget sometimes the level of experience he has actually got.

smileyj1987

rob316 wrote: »

Rodgers made a very good point about how he is confident in handling Balotelli. He loves coaching young players and has spent 20 years coaching at academies, he has done this is whole life working with the unfinished players.

Been so young we forget sometimes the level of experience he has actually got.

I agree if you can get the best out of Ballotelli you have a seriously talented player on your hands !! It's just actually getting his head screwed on if you ask me .

daithijjj

I wasnt that surprised by last night's game. I expected most of it.

We lost the 'tornado' that was Suarez, he could hold his own against a big strong team. Problem is, our 'little' players cant match up over an entire game to this brut force like City have. They can for short periods but eventually tire, physically and mentally, they drop their guard. Im not saying this as criticism, it's just a point of view and you would hope they grow into it more over time because most are young.

Allen did well last night but its a stretch to say he was 'good' or 'very good'. The correct way to approach Allen imo is to say, he has improved, he still isnt great, not strong enough in possession etc.

Coutinho, the thing with him is, he will need another season at least imo to build himself up physically and mentally for this league. He effectively played 25 full league games last year in terms of minutes.

That image i saw a few pages back of Skrtel and Johnson 5 yards behind Lovren and Moreno is very telling imho. I have always been of the opinion that Skrtel is headless and in that particular image it strikes me that Johnson would take any opportunity to be a bit lazy because he is just like that imo. I'd have to see the build up again to be fair anyway but the jist of the point imo is accurate over a period of time.

Moreno was always gonna have a tough night but he was at fault, cant just lazily swing your foot like that, its helter skelter in the EPL, he will learn from that and that's what its about, and what its going to be about for many of the newer ones to the group.

I thought Gerrard and Sterling were our best players. Mignolet is also an average keeper, think he would have been class in the 80's but (actually, scratch that, he'd be mauled on crosses) his style is limited, great shot stopper but he doesnt give confidence in any other aspect for me.

Overall, im not downbeat at all, im glad Lovren is in, over time he will prove how poor Skrtel and Agger have been for us (imo), i know some will think im being controversial but Skrtel is not good enough for where we want to be and with Agger, we had a better player 3 years ago. He (Lovren) is a proper leader there and his future is with Sakho.

Got more stuff to opine upon but that's for another time, only 7 hours left in my 14 hour work day today............*sips from 3rd espresso*

rob316

We wont encounter too many teams with the firepower and brute force that City have for the rest of the season so Im not that worried. If we loose to teams like Spurs then I will be worried. Do what we did last season, smash the 16 teams below us and we will be right up there. Beating one of your rivals is always nice but its 3 points at the end of the day. And its far too earlier in the season to be calling these games 6 pointers.

MD1990

Skrtel should be dropped. Loves dropping deep which leaves way too much space between the defence & midfield & makes it very hard for Gerrard & the midfield then get tired having to cover the huge gaps.Mignolet doesn't help being stuck to the line as well & its been said he doesn't communicate either. Lovren & Sakho would be a better pairing who would push up & be aggressive.

rob316

MD1990 wrote: »

Skrtel should be dropped. Loves dropping deep which leaves way too much space between the defence & midfield & makes it very hard for Gerrard & the midfield then get tired having to cover the huge gaps.Mignolet doesn't help being stuck to the line as well & its been said he doesn't communicate either. Lovren & Sakho would be a better pairing who would push up & be aggressive.

It must be the coaching, we have invested huge amounts in our defence and it is still a shambles at times. Do we keep replacing them? IMO we have some excellent defenders at the club but the organisation is awful. Watching the analysis from two great defenders on MNF last night is a real eye opener to where the problems are. They analysed Man City's defence and it was well drilled, they were always tight to each other, never any gaps to exploit and the whole back 4 always moved back and forward in sequence. They knew where the opposition was and more importantly the rest of their team mates.

Man City targeted the left hand side and destroyed two players that hadn't worked together before because for all the stick Johnson gets (deservedly) the right side was fairly solid between him and Skrtel, so hopefully its just a matter of Moreno and Lovren getting to know each other.

I put the Southampton defensive display down to opening day nerves and a shocking midfield selection but all the same problems were there again last night. Needs sorting fast or Spurs will do the exact same.

Agent Coulson

I think rob316 is right about defensive coaching being the problem.

Last season I can forgive in a sence that it was a balls to the wall run for the title after Christmas.

Now thought after seeing the defence needed work Brendan brought in players to fill postions that needed to be addressed but seems to have forgotten to find a coach that can work with the back 4/5 and keeper.

Attacking wise and man manger wise Brendan Rodgers seems to be at the top of his game but when it comes to the defensive side he doesn't seem to have it.

We do have the players bar a right back ( my own personal gripe) that are talented enough to do the job.

Steve Clarke or someone like him should be brought back/in to work with these players and who seems to also understand the what the front 6 players are doing in attack.

Harry Palmr

It would be good for someone to ask Rodgers about his coaching emphasis and then "why is Liverpool in defence mode so rickety?".

doc_17

Is Agger injured? Or just not selected for the squad last night?

livinginkorea

Ya, something with his knee I think?

mosstin

doc_17 wrote: »

Is Agger injured? Or just not selected for the squad last night?

When he does leave the club, it would be a nice gesture to retire his crutches.

Kirby

mosstin wrote: »

When he does leave the club, it would be a nice gesture to retire his crutches.

Let him leave with them as a parting gift.

That way, He'll Never Walk Alone.

Fescue

Origi playing wide left for Lille tonight on Sky Sports 5.

He is an absolute monster of a player. Never realised how big he is.

Harry Palmr

Tex on the bench for Brighton, Wisdom starts for West Brom.

Conor Coady and Adam Hamill are both playing for Huddersfield.