Liverpool Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP 28/8

Dickerty

joe123 wrote: »

Anyone that thinks our first 11 is as good/stronger than last season with the way it is currently is wrong. Thats a fact.

We have lost our best player and have not come close to replacing him.

Arsenal are stronger.
Chelsea are stronger.
City are stronger/much the same.
United are stronger.

We are weaker. Our best player is gone and our striking options are Sturridge (injury prone), Lambert (not good enough/plan b) and Borini (not good enough and looks like he is on his way)

We will struggle if we dont bring in a proven goal scorer.

Sturridge is a proven goalscorer. The ONLY position we are not stronger in is striker. We have brought in more creavity and goals for midfield, and a top class CB, and potentially 2 FBs. So I would argue that, as a unit, we are stronger as well.

For me, the biggest reason we lost the league last year was losing Henderson for 3 games. We have greater depth. Plus, the window is still wide open!!

Harry Palmr

joe123 wrote: »

We will struggle if we dont bring in a proven goal scorer. Reus is meant to have a release clause for as little as 25 million next season. Why dont we approach Dortmund now and say heres 45-50 million.

Its like some of you have just given up any expectations of signing genuine world class talent. There was a time when we used to believe signing the likes of David Villa was possible.

There is a piece in the guardian - Dortmund hopping mad with Bayern for unsettling Reus - so I think we know how that one will play out.

David Villa was in 2009, that was after 4 years in the CL (and 6 of the previous 7), Liverpool have just spent 4 years in the wilderness.

Underpaid Mike

joe123 wrote: »

Anyone that thinks our first 11 is as good/stronger than last season with the way it is currently is wrong. Thats a fact.

We have lost our best player and have not come close to replacing him.

Arsenal are stronger.
Chelsea are stronger.
City are stronger/much the same.
United are stronger.

We are weaker. Our best player is gone and our striking options are Sturridge (injury prone), Lambert (not good enough/plan b) and Borini (not good enough and looks like he is on his way)

We will struggle if we dont bring in a proven goal scorer. Reus is meant to have a release clause for as little as 25 million next season. Why dont we approach Dortmund now and say heres 45-50 million.

Its like some of you have just given up any expectations of signing genuine world class talent. There was a time when we used to believe signing the likes of David Villa was possible.

We have about 12 pages of posts over the last 2 days saying exactly that by 50 different people. There isnt a single person saying our team is stronger nor is there anyone on this forum saying we dont need another striker. Even BR would admit to both of those points, he certainly has for the second one.
There are 3 weeks+ left in the window, lets see who we sign by then and then we can all have a meltdown if we replace Suarez with Berbatov. Until it actually happens lets give the man who has rebuilt a club falling apart with a shoestring budget the benefit of the doubt

Sir Gallagher

There's more chance of me reading that Kate Cohen article again than another long winded one on a player that isn't ours anymore.

tok9

Mr Alan wrote: »

Yet we're a couple of weeks from the start of the season with Sturridge (injured), Lambert (unproven) and Borini (unproven and seemingly unwanted) as our striking options.

Sturridge isn't injured. It's already been mentioned that he'll play against BVB.

I'm not really sure what more you are looking for. Rodgers has said we are definitely looking at buying a striker. Seemingly, we are looking to address it.

whatawaster

Mr Alan wrote: »

Do you think there is no players available who would be attainable and would significantly improve our starting 11?

We tried to sign Sanchez and failed. Fair enough. Move on to players of the same ilk. Don't just seemingly give up. The money is clearly there.
Yet we're a couple of weeks from the start of the season with Sturridge (injured), Lambert (unproven) and Borini (unproven and seemingly unwanted) as our striking options.

The club have said they are after another striker. If they don't get one, then fair enough, it'll be a bit of a disaster. But it's August 6th, and we have already signed 8 players. We usually have these panic attacks around 3 and a half weeks from now. We would all like all our striking options in place now, but that's not the way football works. Sagas drag on, clubs dig in their heels, players fail medicals.

So we are light in centre-forwards. But we are well stocked in attacking-midfield positions, with Sterling, Coutinho, Lallana, Markovic all front-line players in those positions, with Ibe/Suso as youthful backup and Henderson/Can/Allen available to supplement in a crisis. We are set in those positions.

kevohmsford

I think Raheem Sterling and Coutinho will be vital for us this year. Another striker will definately be brought in. Wilfred Bony would be decent.
I know we have lost a great player but our starting 11 will be stronger this season. We will also have a few options on the bench which we did not have last year.
Hopefully come the end of the month we will look back on a very good transfer window.

Devilman40k

joe123 wrote: »

Anyone that thinks our first 11 is as good/stronger than last season with the way it is currently is wrong. Thats a fact.

No one is saying that...we all recognise the first 11 is weaker without Suarez. EVERY team would be weaker if they lost a player of his quality

We have lost our best player and have not come close to replacing him.

We shouldn't be replacing him, the only way to replace him is by buying the only 2 players capable of doing what he did...and 75m isnt going to do that

Arsenal are stronger.
Chelsea are stronger.
City are stronger/much the same.
United are stronger.

2 of those are our competitors this season... here's a clue neither have a blue home kit. Of them...one is definitely stronger...the other has a lot to prove and a defence to rebuild.

We are weaker. Our best player is gone and our striking options are Sturridge (injury prone), Lambert (not good enough/plan b) and Borini (not good enough and looks like he is on his way)

Addressed above our 1st 11 is weaker...however our matchday 18 is stronger though. And we are looking for another forward

We will struggle if we dont bring in a proven goal scorer. Reus is meant to have a release clause for as little as 25 million next season. Why dont we approach Dortmund now and say heres 45-50 million.

Fully agree..Benzema/Reus...why not go for one of those...hand can't get slapped if you don't put it out

Its like some of you have just given up any expectations of signing genuine world class talent. There was a time when we used to believe signing the likes of David Villa was possible.

We believed and we were wrong ..plus I believe we are building something, there are young quality players ALREADY at the club. We've added to the depth of the squad now. 1 good forward addition is all we need ...

Underpaid Mike

In light of recent posts I feel this is appropriate

segadreamcast

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Ah cmon man, lose the rose tinted glasses.
Last season for me Suarez was on par if not the best player on the planet.
But up until that point he needed to improve his finishing and his link up play and stop the diving. Do you not remember the 2011 season ?

Have a read of this, tis the statsbomb article written about suarez this May before he was sold. Look at what he did last season in comparison to his other seasons at Liverpool, he went from a good player to a superstar simple as that. We did not sign a player capable of scoring 30+ goals in the league, he got there either through his own determination or through the club putting everything in place for him to succeed. But dont go telling me he was a superstar when he arrived and everyone expected him to be the next Messi, thats BS. He joined and was expected to be a foil for Torres who then flucked off.



Link here to google cached version, it seems statsbomb no longer works which is disappointing.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:wmiHCQJjzIAJ:www.statsbomb.com/2014/05/the-danger-of-predictions-luis-suarez-edition/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk

It's just going through a site upgrade today which has been botched a few times, afaik.

EDIT: One of the lads behind it is on Twitter and, for me, it's an absolute must follow - http://www.twitter.com/mixedknuts

Talisman

joe123 wrote: »

We are weaker. Our best player is gone and our striking options are Sturridge (injury prone), Lambert (not good enough/plan b) and Borini (not good enough and looks like he is on his way)

We will struggle if we dont bring in a proven goal scorer. Reus is meant to have a release clause for as little as 25 million next season. Why dont we approach Dortmund now and say heres 45-50 million.

We were going to be weaker anyway - If Suarez was still a Liverpool player he wouldn't be available to play until November - approximately a quarter of the season would be gone before he could kick a ball for us.

It's not like the club haven't tried to sign a player to replace him but equally the club isn't going to be held to ransom.

NEDDURC

joe123 wrote: »

Anyone that thinks our first 11 is as good/stronger than last season with the way it is currently is wrong. Thats a fact.

We have lost our best player and have not come close to replacing him.

Arsenal are stronger.
Chelsea are stronger.
City are stronger/much the same.
United are stronger.

We are weaker. Our best player is gone and our striking options are Sturridge (injury prone), Lambert (not good enough/plan b) and Borini (not good enough and looks like he is on his way)

We will struggle if we dont bring in a proven goal scorer. Reus is meant to have a release clause for as little as 25 million next season. Why dont we approach Dortmund now and say heres 45-50 million.

Its like some of you have just given up any expectations of signing genuine world class talent. There was a time when we used to believe signing the likes of David Villa was possible.

I think you need to step back and look at the bigger picture here.

Rodgers took over just two years ago. He's pretty much cleared out the majority of the squad he inherited and replaced them with a young energetic, skillful team.

Liverpool did superbly last season to come second but a major reason was that we'd no Euorpean football to distract us. So his first priority this summer was expanding the depth of the squad which he's done again by signing alot of good mostly young players.

He did his best to control the whol Suarez situation and has to be respected for saving that he wasn't bigger than the club. He really had not option but to sell him this summer for the money he got.

If Moreno signs I think the squad is looking very healthy. Everyone knows we are short a striker so lets have faith that we'll sign someone before the end of August but we should have enough players to start the season well now (barring a major injury crisis). By all accounts Markovic could play up front if we needed him to.

I think Pedro or Benzema would be ideal signings for us as they are both skillful and could fit into a fluid attacking system.

RayCun

Dickerty wrote: »

would argue that, as a unit, we are stronger

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

There isnt a single person saying our team is stronger

kevohmsford wrote: »

our starting 11 will be stronger this season.

Devilman40k wrote: »

No one is saying that...we all recognise the first 11 is weaker without Suarez.

T-K-O

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Messi played 29 games for Barca at 19 and is far from burnt out almost 10 years later
Sterling over the past year looks like he is training for a part in the 300, the amount of muscle he has put on is outrageous. Its showing in how he finished last season, his WC and what he has done in pre season. He has gone up a level (or 5) mainly due to his physicality.
Not sure burn out is an issue for someone like him. If he does tire or lose form we have Markovic, Coutinho, Lallana Ibe etc etc who could all do a job in his position
He along with Sturridge and Coutinho carry the weight of our season on their shoulders. If they can get the goals the rest of the team will do the rest.

Far too much is made of young players and burn out however, messi's performance levels have dropped in the last 2 season, if ever a player looked burnt out it's him.

Underpaid Mike

RayCun wrote: »

Jaysús
Ok all bar 2 people so ;):eek:

Devilman40k

RayCun wrote: »

kev and Dickerty don't count

Apart from kevohmsford and Dickerty - we all recognise the first 11 is weaker without Suarez.

:cool:

:pac:

Dickerty

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Jaysús
Ok all bar 2 people so ;):eek:

I've always tried to stand out from the pack... :cool:

Underpaid Mike

My take on Memphis Depay. I have him as a Top 5 U23 talent in Europe. When I ran sim scores, he was one of 2 players to look like Suarez

Depay has prodigious physical gifts, and unlike an Andros Townsend, he has real output in goals and assists too. Turns 20 in Feb! So young

Thats the lad that runs statsbomb
Id be v v excited to see him join

Obligatory 11min Youtube video

Devilman40k

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Thats the lad that runs statsbomb
Id be v v excited to see him join

Spurs reportedly linked to him in a 15m move.

GavRedKing

T-K-O wrote: »

Far too much is made of young players and burn out however, messi's performance levels have dropped in the last 2 season, if ever a player looked burnt out it's him.

112 goals for Barcelona & argentina in the last 2 years, that some burnout. :eek:

segadreamcast

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Thats the lad that runs statsbomb
Id be v v excited to see him join

You and I both. Not 100% why we didn't go in for him bar the minor excuses of: i. Dutch league ii. Plays midfield/winger moreso than forward, and we're well stocked there.

K-9

RayCun wrote: »

Well barring Suarez the first 15/16 will definitely be stronger! That's the first part of the jigsaw solved.

Tbh I'm not seeing many quality strikers available, Benzema maybe, but is he actually leaving?

mosstin

Last looked in here 4 days ago and it was all sunshine and light. One friendly defeat later and the world is about to end. The Liverpool thread - fúcked in the head, so you don't have to be.

T-K-O

GavRedKing wrote: »

112 goals for Barcelona & argentina in the last 2 years, that some burnout. :eek:

Does he perform at the same level?

Underpaid Mike

T-K-O wrote: »

Does he perform at the same level?

He got player for the World Cup 4 weeks ago and was the first ever player to get 3 MoM awards in a row at a world cup. Id say he is doing alright these days

K-9

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Thats the lad that runs statsbomb
Id be v v excited to see him join

Obligatory 11min Youtube video

I'd buy him for the name alone.

klose

Im going to go out on a limb and say we'll be 'fine'....

Devilman40k

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

He got player for the World Cup 4 weeks ago and was the first ever player to get 3 MoM awards in a row at a world cup. Id say he is doing alright these days

What!? he didn't get 6 in a row....definitely dropping standards there :P

GavRedKing

T-K-O wrote: »

Does he perform at the same level?

since his run of crazy stats, 08/09 hes scored 312 goals in 6 years which is an average of 52 goals a season.

Given hes scored on average 50 goals in the last 2 seasons for Barca I'd say he is ya, barring the odd injury, hes still scoring goals to bate the band.

Its far from a burnout anyway, IMO.

Underpaid Mike

Devilman40k wrote: »

What!? he didn't get 6 in a row....definitely dropping standards there :P

Just checked it was actually 4 Man of the match awards in a row.
Slacker :P

T-K-O

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

He got player for the World Cup 4 weeks ago and was the first ever player to get 3 MoM awards in a row at a world cup. Id say he is doing alright these days

Ah come on, I love watching the guy but seriously.

Utopia Parkway

Remy failing his medical or whatever happened has a lot to answer for.

Had we wrapped up that deal a couple of weeks ago as looked likely at the time, then there would probably be far less hysterics in here today.

T-K-O

GavRedKing wrote: »

since his run of crazy stats, 08/09 hes scored 312 goals in 6 years which is an average of 52 goals a season.

Given hes scored on average 50 goals in the last 2 seasons for Barca I'd say he is ya, barring the odd injury, hes still scoring goals to bate the band.

Its far from a burnout anyway, IMO.

He was light years ahead of everyone else in 08/09, the fact that he remains one of the best players on the planet does not mean he's performing at the same level.

His form has dipped & dramatically compared to his peak.

Francie Barrett

brevity wrote: »

Conor Coady is off to Huddersfield...

Good move for him, he was just nowhere near the standard required. Also, nice that we get a fee (even if it's only a small one).

MarkY91

looking to get 2 tickets for LFC v west brom on the 4th of october. how do i go about that? every time i went to a game, somebody else organised everything. we have plane and hotel picked at 170 each. just need the tickets..

would appreciate a PM. we would even sleep in a decent hostel to save on funds if anyone has any reccomendations

Dickerty

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Remy failing his medical or whatever happened has a lot to answer for.

Had we wrapped up that deal a couple of weeks ago as looked likely at the time, then there would probably be far less hysterics in here today.

Except for people saying Remy's not good enough.

"He's no Suarez..."

Underpaid Mike

T-K-O wrote: »

He was light years ahead of everyone else in 08/09, the fact that he remains one of the best players on the planet does not mean he's performing at the same.

His form has dipped & dramatically compared to his peak.

Messis record since 2011
53 in 55, 24 assists (0.94)
73 in 60, 28 assists (1.21)
60 in 50, 16 assists (1.20)
41 in 46, 14 assists (0.9)

The injury he had last year explains the lesser amount of goals but to say that his form has dipped dramatically is a bit much

woodyg

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Remy failing his medical or whatever happened has a lot to answer for.

Had we wrapped up that deal a couple of weeks ago as looked likely at the time, then there would probably be far less hysterics in here today.

Na the hysteria would remain as the focus would have shifted to a keeper\defender\defensive midfielder\midfielder\attacking midfielder\outside half
basically the hysteria will always be in this thread.
Even if we signed Messi!
just look at the last few posts questioning the form of the best player to play football in the last 15 years.


Moving on, anyone want to take bets on Liverpool being drawn in the same group as Barca in the Champions league.

Kess73

Messi? Nothing special anymore.






Comment may be influenced by the console version of Messi repeatedly refusing to join my Liverpool team in Fifa14

Underpaid Mike

woodyg wrote: »

Na the hysteria would remain as the focus would have shifted to a keeper\defender\defensive midfielder\midfielder\attacking midfielder\outside half
basically the hysteria will always be in this thread.
Even if we signed Messi!
just look at the last few posts questioning the form of the best player to play football in the last 15 years.


Moving on, anyone want to take bets on Liverpool being drawn in the same group as Barca in the Champions league.

Dream draw: Porto, FC Basel, Anderlect
Nightmare draw: Real Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, Roma

T-K-O

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Messis record since 2011
53 in 55, 24 assists (0.94)
73 in 60, 28 assists (1.21)
60 in 50, 16 assists (1.20)
41 in 46, 14 assists (0.9)

The injury he had last year explains the lesser amount of goals but to say that his form has dipped dramatically is a bit much

Im not talking about his goals per game ratio, everyone knows it off the charts but overall he's not the same guy.

Yes he was injured and I truly hope that is the reason. Messi was/is a joy to watch. A few years back he would entertain for ~90 minutes, now he pops up with an amazing free kick or a magical 10 seconds. His goal stats are a testament to his greatness but he's not the same player he was.

donfers

The firesale continues - Conor Coady gone

DrumSteve

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Dream draw: Porto, FC Basel, Anderlect
Nightmare draw: Real Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, Roma

In a way I'd prefer the 2nd option, they would make for some nights at Anfield.

Charlie19

That some record by the lad (Messi), astonishing ratio when you take into account he had to deal with three changes of the manager.

Dickerty

donfers wrote: »

The firesale continues - Conor Coady gone

Will be greatly missed.
Or not at all.

Dickerty

DrumSteve wrote: »

In a way I'd prefer the 2nd option, they would make for some nights at Anfield.

I'd rather we play them in the knock-out stages!

Vicxas

Jesus I leave for a few hours and the place has degeneratee into chaos.


Have I missed something?

Also, this:



Liverpool preparing Icardi bid


Liverpool are preparing a £16m bid for Inter's Mauro Icardi as Brendan Rodgers continues his hunt for a replacement for Luis Suarez. However, the Serie A side want £28m for the Argentine.

Source: Daily Express

LuckyLloyd

I am pie wrote: »

As predicted Suarez leaving has opened the doors for the doom mongers to come flooding through.

Nothing the say or do will convince me that they wouldn't actually be glad for Liverpool to fail this year. We have the best manager we have had in years, finally got back into Europe, finished 2nd in the league last year and yet ...and yet.

It's pathetic.

What's pathetic is that some people want to shut down any negative commentary on Liverpool by labelling anyone with a bearish analysis as a non fan secretly hoping we are unsuccessful.

I want massive success for the club, nothing less.

DrumSteve

Dickerty wrote: »

I'd rather we play them in the knock-out stages!

True that too.

Either way it'd be nice to play Real again in a competitive fixture at Anfield.

LuckyLloyd

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The Luckly Lloyd/Mr Alan etc, approach is classic fandom behaviour really. The result would be a hollowed out squad with the supposed "superstar" signing more or less obliged to deliver the goods - if goods go astray the club ends up with vastly expensive player on books who is then looking forward to a good cup run through gritted teeth and a squad still without a decent bench!

The squad has been deepened out and improved as it stands and we are on course for a negligible net spend with a striker required. Asking for that striker to be an aggressive purchase is not as silly as made out. We finished second last year. So what. It will only get harder to retain top four this year and this club should never accept playing in Europe for the craic. We have a pile of money and NEED a quality addition to the first eleven.

So yeah, in that context asking for a big move is not as ridiculous as you contend.