Liverpool Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP 28/8

recylingbin

Anyone who wishes Agger out the door cares little for the club. He was there when we were good, when we were sh*t and again when we were good, He never agitated for a move, amid several being mived out stories, \barca have been continually linked with him and he repeatedly has said he wants to play for Liverpool. Now we(the club) wanna move him out and he's a pariah? Bullsh*t. Great player for us. Heart in it. I love him.

Charlie19

Maxi to the left but is that Gerrard motorboating from the right?

Zak Flaps

K-9 wrote: »

Bit lke people who never watched Blazing Saddles or Monty Python.

Top Movie!

The Mulk

Charlie19 wrote: »

Maxi to the left but is that Gerrard motorboating from the right?

Looks like Downing, coming in late, with Carroll at the back, (shudders at memory)

whatawaster

recylingbin wrote: »

Anyone who wishes Agger out the door cares little for the club. He was there when we were good, when we were sh*t and again when we were good, He never agitated for a move, amid several being mived out stories, \barca have been continually linked with him and he repeatedly has said he wants to play for Liverpool. Now we(the club) wanna move him out and he's a pariah? Bullsh*t. Great player for us. Heart in it. I love him.

Purely football reasons

machiavellianme

recylingbin wrote: »

Anyone who wishes Agger out the door cares little for the club. He was there when we were good when we were sh*t and again when we were good, He never agitated for a move amid several being mived out stories, \barca have been continually linked with him and he repeatedly has said he wants to play for Liverpool. Now we(the club) wanna move him out and he's a pariah? Bullsh*t. Great player for us. Heart in it. I love him.

So we're supposed to keep every player who hangs around without complaint and collects a healthy pay cheque every week just because a few fans get sentimental?
No one has called him a pariah but I don't think anyone believes that he should be in our starting 11 again unless forced by injury. It will be hard to see him go (just like when Dirk left) but we hopefully won't require his services again.

Mr Alan

Seems very strange to me that we're getting rid of Agger.

As far as I am concerned he is still our best defender.

Sakho has a bigger reputation, Lovern may turn out to be better when he plays. But as things stand at the minute, I'd rate him as our number 1.

Part of the reason for my own personal frustration at our activity in the market is because I pretty much think I know how our window will pan out. We'll close out the Moreno deal, the club will fist pump all over the shop about closing out the deal.

We might sign a striker the ilk of Bony, Remy etc, but that simply isn't good enough when we still need to replace the goals of Suarez. We should be making moves for elite CL players who have the potential to go on to be absolutely world class, the ilk of Suarez, Torres, Vidal, Sanchez, Reus etc etc. However the fact we're so late in the window means it's pretty obvious that won't be happening. Yet that was what having CL football (and the money that comes with it) and the new TV deal money should have changed for us in this window.

Instead we're shopping at QPR, Southampton, Swansea, getting a RB on loan with a £5m purchase clause (?!), bringing a young player from Benfica, whose fans wanted out of the team for the second half of last season. And we've spent pretty much £100m to do it. It might work out, but at the minute, it's incredibly disappointing - and if it doesn't work out, well...football is a fickle game.

Mr Alan

whatawaster wrote: »

Purely football reasons

That's not true and makes no sense.

He is better than at least 2 of our current CB options. Pretty sure even you could admit that.

whatawaster

Mr Alan wrote: »

That's not true and makes no sense.

He is better than at least 2 of our current CB options. Pretty sure even you could admit that.

I would keep 4 centre backs. One should be Toure (only open in case of emergency and will be happy enough on the bench)

Agger is 4th choice and he won't settle for a bench warming role. I would sell him because he has declined as a defender. Might be that a change of scenery will be good for him.

whatawaster

Mr Alan wrote: »

Seems very strange to me that we're getting rid of Agger.

As far as I am concerned he is still our best defender.

Sakho has a bigger reputation, Lovern may turn out to be better when he plays. But as things stand at the minute, I'd rate him as our number 1.

Part of the reason for my own personal frustration at our activity in the market is because I pretty much think I know how our window will pan out. We'll close out the Moreno deal, the club will fist pump all over the shop about closing out the deal.

We might sign a striker the ilk of Bony, Remy etc, but that simply isn't good enough when we still need to replace the goals of Suarez. We should be making moves for elite CL players who have the potential to go on to be absolutely world class, the ilk of Suarez, Torres, Vidal, Sanchez, Reus etc etc. However the fact we're so late in the window means it's pretty obvious that won't be happening. Yet that was what having CL football (and the money that comes with it) and the new TV deal money should have changed for us in this window.

Instead we're shopping at QPR, Southampton, Swansea, getting a RB on loan with a £5m purchase clause (?!), bringing a young player from Benfica, whose fans wanted out of the team for the second half of last season. And we've spent pretty much £100m to do it. It might work out, but at the minute, it's incredibly disappointing - and if it doesn't work out, well...football is a fickle game.

I think that's a misleading comment on Markovic to be honest. On my phone so can't reply in detail

Mr Alan

Declined as a defender? Was our best run last season not when he was in the team? Do you think that was a co-incidence?

Mr Alan

whatawaster wrote: »

I think that's a misleading comment on Markovic to be honest. On my phone so can't reply in detail

Misleading? I don't watch Portuguese football, but by all accounts it's entirely true?

machiavellianme

whatawaster wrote: »

I would keep 4 centre backs. One should be Toure (only open in case of emergency and will be happy enough on the bench)

Agger is 4th choice and he won't settle for a bench warming role. I would sell him because he has declined as a defender. Might be that a change of scenery will be good for him.

We'd be lucky to have him in a bench warming role. Problem is that he mostly only warms the bench in the treatment room. We need a dependable, consistent backup.

Mr Alan

whatawaster wrote: »

I would keep 4 centre backs. One should be Toure (only open in case of emergency and will be happy enough on the bench)

Agger is 4th choice and he won't settle for a bench warming role. I would sell him because he has declined as a defender. Might be that a change of scenery will be good for him.

I'd keep Skrtel, Agger, Lovern and Sakho (undeniably our best 4 defenders).

I'd tell them that Lovern will be automatic first choice for a couple of months as he is new in the door. However, no one else is assured of anything on the back of the frankly comically bad defending last season as a whole. The other spot will be picked on merit with plenty of CL and Cup games to go around.

Ps. I can't believe the free ride Sakho gets. He was very poor last season. I still get nightmares when I think about the Palace game.

whatawaster

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'd keep Skrtel, Agger, Lovern and Sakho (undeniably our best 4 defenders).

I'd tell them that Lovern will be automatic first choice for a couple of months as he is new in the door. However, no one else is assured of anything on the back of the frankly comically bad defending last season as a whole. The other spot will be picked on merit with plenty of CL and Cup games to go around.

Fair enough, but I think 4 senior centre backs might be asking for trouble in terms of keeping players happy. It's not a position that is rotated often

Knex*

Mr Alan wrote: »

Declined as a defender? Was our best run last season not when he was in the team? Do you think that was a co-incidence?

Agger hasnt played at a top 4 level consistently since Kenny/Clarke, and that was only half a season.

As things stand, he's our 4th best defender, I would say.

I really thought he'd push on under Rodgers, but for whatever reason, be it injuries or the system employed, he simply hasn't.

He's regressed since the Euros, where he was great for Denmark, imo.

whatawaster

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'd keep Skrtel, Agger, Lovern and Sakho (undeniably our best 4 defenders).

I'd tell them that Lovern will be automatic first choice for a couple of months as he is new in the door. However, no one else is assured of anything on the back of the frankly comically bad defending last season as a whole. The other spot will be picked on merit with plenty of CL and Cup games to go around.

Ps. I can't believe the free ride Sakho gets. He was very poor last season. I still get nightmares when I think about the Palace game.

Run me through Sakho's errors in the palace game? You go on like the whole thing was of his doing

I remember Skrtel's and Johnson's errors, since we are talking about free rides

Dickerty

dubdamo wrote: »

Celtic being dumped out of the Champions League tonight, anybody think Fraser Foster would be a good signing to compete with Mig as Pepe is on his way out ?

I was thinking that yesterday. I am sure he'd like to be a regular somewhere, but maybe he'd fancy his chances being first choice? It would certainly push Migs to a higher level, having someone of his calibre on the bench.

Or, if not, he may go to another club which might free up someone like Boruc or Krul...

Mr Alan

People are saying he has regressed defensively. It's simply not true. He has been in and out of the team so has never impressed, but unless I'm mistaken, the simple fact is that we concede considerably less goals when he is in the team than when he is out of the team.

Last season our best run defensively came when himself & Skrtel were in the side consistently when Sakho was injured. The team was far more solid. When Sakho came back from injury and was shoehorned back into the side immediately, the defensive performance of the team suffered as a result.

This is not just my opinion, this is backed up by the amount of goals we conceded.

redzerdrog

Agger was easily our best CB last season and I know i was banging on about last year but the stats back up the fact that we kept more clean sheets with agger in the team than any other cb.

machiavellianme

whatawaster wrote: »

Run me through Sakho's errors in the palace game? You go on like the whole thing was of his doing

I remember Skrtel's and Johnson's errors, since we are talking about free rides

Shhh it's Mr Alan. You aren't allowed to talk ill of any Benitez signing!

eyescreamcone

But Foster would be cup tied for the Champions League

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

Seems very strange to me that we're getting rid of Agger.

As far as I am concerned he is still our best defender.

Sakho has a bigger reputation, Lovern may turn out to be better when he plays. But as things stand at the minute, I'd rate him as our number 1.

Part of the reason for my own personal frustration at our activity in the market is because I pretty much think I know how our window will pan out. We'll close out the Moreno deal, the club will fist pump all over the shop about closing out the deal.

We might sign a striker the ilk of Bony, Remy etc, but that simply isn't good enough when we still need to replace the goals of Suarez. We should be making moves for elite CL players who have the potential to go on to be absolutely world class, the ilk of Suarez, Torres, Vidal, Sanchez, Reus etc etc. However the fact we're so late in the window means it's pretty obvious that won't be happening. Yet that was what having CL football (and the money that comes with it) and the new TV deal money should have changed for us in this window.

Instead we're shopping at QPR, Southampton, Swansea, getting a RB on loan with a £5m purchase clause (?!), bringing a young player from Benfica, whose fans wanted out of the team for the second half of last season. And we've spent pretty much £100m to do it. It might work out, but at the minute, it's incredibly disappointing - and if it doesn't work out, well...football is a fickle game.

How you can think he is our number one is beyond me.

He has barely played enough games to be compared and he disappointed last season when he did.

I don't think the club is doing anything wrong whatsoever - I think there are plenty of other clubs who might have used injuries as a reason to move him on earlier.

Love the guy, love that he never even hinted at a move when there was interest, love how he was like an extra midfielder in the good days when teams tried to park the bus at Anfield and I loved that classy left foot.

We haven't seen anything like the old Agger in the last two years though.

Mr Alan

whatawaster wrote: »

Run me through Sakho's errors in the palace game? You go on like the whole thing was of his doing

I remember Skrtel's and Johnson's errors, since we are talking about free rides

It wasn't mistakes per say but there doesn't need to be a glaring obvious mistake for a defender to be at fault :rolleyes: It was just the general dropping deeper and deeper that he is so fond of, inviting Palace on that made the whole thing so inevitable. Carragher & Neville did a good piece on it toward the end of the season.

Johnson should be replaced for his performances last season.

Skrtel was infinitely better than Sakho throughout the season, but shouldn't be a starter for us unless he earns it on merit.

I'm not advocating free rides in any way, shape or form.

You on the other hand.......

Francie Barrett

redzerdrog wrote: »

Agger was easily our best CB last season and I know i was banging on about last year but the stats back up the fact that we kept more clean sheets with agger in the team than any other cb.

Skrtel was the better player for me. Both made errors, but at least Skrtel scored a crazy amount of goals.

Mr Alan

noodler wrote: »

We haven't seen anything like the old Agger in the last two years though.

Again, we were a better team defensively last season when he played.

the kelt

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'd keep Skrtel, Agger, Lovern and Sakho (undeniably our best 4 defenders).

I'd tell them that Lovern will be automatic first choice for a couple of months as he is new in the door. However, no one else is assured of anything on the back of the frankly comically bad defending last season as a whole. The other spot will be picked on merit with plenty of CL and Cup games to go around.

Ps. I can't believe the free ride Sakho gets. He was very poor last season. I still get nightmares when I think about the Palace game.

Sakho was probably our best defender in the Palace game.

I think this is something else you may not have watched along with admitting you never watched Portugese football but knew enough to make a fairly disparaging comment about our new signing Markovic

Mr Alan

machiavellianme wrote: »

Shhh it's Mr Alan. You aren't allowed to talk ill of any Benitez signing!

Really? I've just said Johnson should be replaced & Skrtel should be benched if his performances aren't up to scratch? What on earth are you talking about?

If anything it's actually people not being allowed speak ill of a Rodgers signing that is causing the problem here.

the kelt wrote: »

Sakho was probably our best defender in the Palace game.

I think this is something else you may not have watched along with admitting you never watched Portugese football but knew enough to make a fairly disparaging comment about our new signing Markovic

You watch plenty of Portugeuse football do you?! :rolleyes:

And if you genuinely think Sakho wasn't a massive part of the problem against Palace, I don't know what to say to you.

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

Again, we were a better team defensively last season when he played.

I'd need to see the number of games that relates to, who was available in midfield at the time, whether or not Flanno was fit, whether or not they were a relatively easy grouping of games etc

I don't doubt what you are saying - I just wouldn't accept it without qualification and over what my eyes have told me the last couple of years.

Mr Alan

noodler wrote: »

I'd need to see the number of games that relates to, who was available in midfield at the time, whether or not Flanno was fit, whether or not they were a relatively easy grouping of games etc

I don't doubt what you are saying - I just wouldn't accept it without qualification and over what my eyes have told me the last couple of years.

As a % of a total season it's certainly a statistically relevant number of games (he started 16 PL games last season including against the likes of Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, Utd and Everton)

Underpaid Mike

Recap of that Palace game

I would argue that despite a few teething problems sakho and lovern are by far our strongest CB partnership. The problem with Sakho and Skrtel is neither of them are a leader. Lovern is, as is Agger. Problem with Agger is that he is injury plagued, makes too many individual errors and is appalling in the air. Add this to his hefty wages then for me it makes a lot of sense to sell him. I would happily give Coates till xmas and play him in a few games. If he steps up then great, if not then sell him and look for a new 4th choice CB. That could be Kelly, it could even be Wisdom but its definitely not Agger

Mr Alan

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

I would argue that despite a few teething problems sakho and lovern are by far our strongest CB partnership.

Do I need to point out to people what is so hideously silly about this post?

Underpaid Mike

Mr Alan wrote: »

Do I need to point out to people what is so hideously silly about this post?

Point away please

Vinz Mesrine

Agger our best defender good lord.

As much as I like him, he is 4th choice and deservedly so. Any defender who could get bullied by an under 12s striker doesn't deserve to start for Liverpool. He is a liability and has been for 2 years, Sakho and Lovren will deservedly be first choice this season. They are our 2 best centre halves by quite some distance.

And as for Alans comment about Markovic without ever seeing him play, there aren't enough rolleyes for him.

Work must be quiet again eh?

brevity

I think Mingolet should have done better in that clip above. Surely the shout should be coming from the keeper there?

Mr Alan

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Point away please

Sakho and Lovern have never played a match together.

They've never even trained together.

They might turn out to be our best combo, getting rid of Agger or Skrtel before Lovern/Sakho together have even taken the field would be lunacy.

LuckyLloyd

Agee has been very loyal to the club and is not dreadful by any stretch. I felt he was exceptional during 2011 / 12 and felt he'd really push on. That hasn't happened.

I wouldn't be cheering as he walks out the door, but if a club wants to make him a starter it might be best for all concerned.

NukaCola

I think Sakho is very good and will be better this season. Despite looking like he's gonna fall over every time he passes the ball and the odd rash tackle he had a solid enough season. Saying he gets a free ride is just misinformed and incorrect. He has earned his place as far as I'm concerned.

Not sure how Lovren will do as I haven't seen enough of him really, but people are saying he is a very good CB and a good organiser, something we need. I'm looking forward to seeing a Lovren and Sakho partnership at the back.

I'd keep Agger over Skrtel and probably like to keep both for one more season while Ilori gets a loan. I'll be sad to see Agger go but understand the reason for him to be moved on unfortunately.

LuckyLloyd

Alan, do you have any link on the Markovic stuff? If so post it and put the detractors to bed on the point.

Vinz Mesrine

Mr Alan wrote: »

Sakho and Lovern have never played a match together.

They've never even trained together.

They might turn out to be our best combo, getting rid of Agger or Skrtel before Lovern/Sakho together have even taken the field would be lunacy.

If in fantasy land we signed Hummels and Thiago Silva would you still consider Agger/Skrtel a better partnership because they've played together before?

Underpaid Mike

Mr Alan wrote: »

Sakho and Lovern have never played a match together.

They've never even trained together.

They might turn out to be our best combo, getting rid of Agger or Skrtel before Lovern/Sakho together have even taken the field would be lunacy.

Moreno has never played for Liverpool does that mean he should not be our first choice FB if we sign him?
Crazy comment, they are two of the best centre halves in the league and should dovetail perfectly together, one is an aggressive leader and the other is strong in the air with great passing ability.
Also Sakho was not at fault for all the goals at Palace as you said, Skrtel and Johnson were both 100% at fault for a goal each.

Mr Alan

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Alan, do you have any link on the Markovic stuff? If so post it and put the detractors to bed on the point.

Don't have anything to hand, I'll have a root later.

But when he signed and relevant journos/sites were writing pieces about him to let Liverpool fans know who they'd just spent a big lump of cash on, many mentioned that he had a great start to the season but his form nose dived in Jan and fans were frustrated with him keeping his place.

I suspect Whatawaster has read the same stuff I have which is why he said my comment was "misleading" as opposed to it just being nonsense.

Vinz Mesrine

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Alan, do you have any link on the Markovic stuff? If so post it and put the detractors to bed on the point.

I wait with bated breath for this article which doesn't exist.

Dickerty

ON PAPER, Lovren and Sakho are our best partnership. Two outstanding defenders as shown over a number of years, a righty and a lefty, and both with a year of PL under their belt.

But because the world doesn't work on paper, we will have the likes of Skrtel and Toure (and maybe Coates or Ilori) to back them up. But Agger is too good for 4th choice, and if he doesn't have Rodgers trust, then there is not much to be said...

Mr Alan

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

If in fantasy land we signed Hummels and Thiago Silva would you still consider Agger/Skrtel a better partnership because they've played together before?

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Moreno has never played for Liverpool does that mean he should not be our first choice FB if we sign him?
Crazy comment, they are two of the best centre halves in the league and should dovetail perfectly together, one is an aggressive leader and the other is strong in the air with great passing ability.
Also Sakho was not at fault for all the goals at Palace as you said, Skrtel and Johnson were both 100% at fault for a goal each.

I took exception to you saying that they were out best partnership.

Potentially they are. But saying they are now is nonsense.

Silva/Hummels are proven as significantly better than Agger/Skrtel, put simply Sakho and Lovern are not. I hope they prove to be, but as things stand today, they're not.

brevity

I think I remember that article...his form dipped or something and fans got on his back but the manager persevered with him...think that was it.

Vinz Mesrine

Mr Alan wrote: »

I took exception to you saying that they were out best partnership.

Potentially they are. But saying they are now is nonsense.

Silva/Hummels are proven as significantly better than Agger/Skrtel, put simply Sakho and Lovern are not. I hope they prove to be, but as things stand today, they're not.

Have you seen Sakho in anything other than a Liverpool shirt?

Lovren, last season, was better than anything I have seen from Skrtel or Agger in years.

K-9

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Alan, do you have any link on the Markovic stuff? If so post it and put the detractors to bed on the point.

Think it was posted on here that he'd a poor enough first half of the season but was very good the second half.

Underpaid Mike

Both Sterling and Coutinho both had significant dips in form last season, especially Coutinho.
They, like Markovic, are U21 is that not 100% expected ?
Criticising what is in effect a youth player for a dip in form is beyond outrageous

Oh and Mr Alan I believe this is the article you were referring to.
PS you got it wrong, his form dipped for a short period before inspiring the team for the rest of the season :rolleyes:

Benfica coach Jorge Jesus loves his flair players, but Markovic faced fierce competition for a starting berth in a deep and talented squad. The Serbian deserves credit for the way he quickly earned the absolute trust of the exacting coach. Indeed, Jesus was at pains to defend the player when some fans and critics were calling for him to be dropped as his form hit a lull in the run-up to Christmas.

The coach persisted with Markovic and his faith was rewarded. Benfica’s No. 50 was soon firing on all cylinders again. A total of 49 matches and seven goals are impressive numbers for a player who only turned 20 near the end of the season and who was playing abroad for the first time.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/who-lazar-markovic-liverpool-signed-3865650#ixzz39gyGePbr

whatawaster

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Alan, do you have any link on the Markovic stuff? If so post it and put the detractors to bed on the point.

I've seen this said a few times

Jesus was at pains to defend the player when some fans and critics were calling for him to be dropped as his form hit a lull in the run-up to Christmas.

The coach persisted with Markovic and his faith was rewarded. Benfica’s No. 50 was soon firing on all cylinders again. A total of 49 matches and seven goals are impressive numbers for a player who only turned 20 near the end of the season and who was playing abroad for the first time.

It was little surprise he became a darling of the Benfica faithful in such a short space of time.



http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/who-lazar-markovic-liverpool-signed-3865650#ixzz39gzRjR00