Liverpool Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP 28/8

Underpaid Mike

Mr Alan wrote: »

I think you'll find I responded pointing out that he was lying in relation to what I actually said.

I said I'd read he had a good start to the season, but his formed dipped in the second half and that fans got on his back.

What actually happened was he had a poor first half of the season, fans got on his back. Manager stuck by him and his form improved in the second half of the season.

My point, that on the face of it this transfer is not significantly imrprovement to our starting 11. Nor is it one that wouldn't have been possible last season imo. That's disappointing.

Hang on thats not what flipping happened either
He had a great start to the season, his form dipped for 6 or so games and then he was brilliant for the remainder of the season. Exactly like almost every young player ever!

Underpaid Mike

The Mig wrote: »

Keep the faith lads. We've come a long way

Oh dear jaysus
David Ngog, what on earth were we thinking. Seriously?

Chip Whitley

NukaCola wrote: »

You'd think after the season we'd just had and direction we've been heading, people would put a bit of faith in Brendan Rodgers and what players he wants at the club.

Nobody has to follow blindly, but it seems like the same miserable ****ers just want to moan about the same things every year. Even last year when those people were completely blown away by how we played still coming out with nothing but negativity. Our success last season wasn't just all down to Suarez.

The thread gets totally hijacked every time the negativity takes over. Very frustrating. Last time I was a regular in the SF was a while back and I gave up on it when Rodgers was called a used car salesman and people were saying he (and FSG) were chancers and shouldn't be anywhere near the club.

Now, off the back of one of our brightest seasons in recent memory considering how far we had fallen, and there is still moaning. Nothing wrong with being optimistic, people involved in the club are working hard, trying their best and imo deserve at the very least until the end of the window before the panic button is pushed and negativity reaches a crescendo.

Devilman40k

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Oh dear jaysus
David Ngog, what on earth were we thinking. Seriously?

At least he was looking in the right direction....

Underpaid Mike

Cjs21 wrote: »

Or else the denial of this is through jealousy that he doesn't play for us?

Suarez, Messi and Ronaldo are miles ahead of any of the above players.

I really cannot believe you've put James Rodriguez and Reus in there, they aren't even in the top 20 in the world right now? Never mind near Messi, Ronaldo and Suarez.

James Rodriguez had a fantastic WC but the fee paid for him is literally just showing the world and mainly Barcelona that they have more money, even in todays multi-million bids he is not even nearly worth what they paid for him.

Also Reus, he isn't even the best player in his own country.

Bale has the potential to be up there as does Neymar, but right now they are still quite far away from the top 3.

Agree with you to a point about the world class players
But just on James transfer, Monaco did pay £40m for him last summer. He got 10 goals and 14 assists as a playmaker and then was arguably the best player in the world cup this summer. Is he worth £70m probably not but it wasnt a case of Real paying 3x his value as a statement of intent.
He is an outstanding player with a limitless ceiling on how good he could become.

Kimbot

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Oh dear jaysus
David Ngog, what on earth were we thinking. Seriously?

In fairness he was a kid brought into to be backup to Torres for less than a million quid, his goal against united alone was worth what we paid for him.

A2LUE42

The Mig wrote: »

Keep the faith lads. We've come a long way

What match was that from?

Augmerson

A2LUE42 wrote: »

What match was that from?

Europa League?

Harry Palmr

Last season for a few people round here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBSF0Gi7oM0

hopefully they'll be doing it again this season.

whatawaster

Sterling has gone from someone who was being heavily criticised 12 months ago, to arguably now our best player. That's what can happen in 12 months and that is why the job of the scouts and everyone buying players is so tricky. It's about predicting the future as much as it is about signing a big name or a player who has done well in the past.

Harry Palmr

BBC Wiltshire @BBCWiltshire · 24m

FOOTBALL: We understand that @Official_STFC will complete season long loan signings for #LFC Brad Smith and #saintsfc Jordan Turnbull today

..

D'Agger

rarnes1 wrote: »

I always liked Agger, seems like a classy guy and obviously loves the club and city.

However, I think he's gone backwards quite a bit and the time is right to move on.

Toure should follow him tbh. He's well past it and I never want to see him in a Liverpool shirt again.

Mr Alan

whatawaster wrote: »

Sterling has gone from someone who was being heavily criticised 12 months ago, to arguably now our best player. That's what can happen in 12 months and that is why the job of the scouts and everyone buying players is so tricky. It's about predicting the future as much as it is about signing a big name or a player who has done well in the past.

People criticising Sterling too much were fools.

But him becoming our best player is actually part of the problem. The main reason for that is because Suarez is now gone. He's not ready for that and unless that situation is resolved, it's why we'll miss out on CL this season coming.

Then all Rodgers good work will be for nothing as spending £100m and not getting CL will result in him looking for a new job.

Dickerty

Harry Palmr wrote: »

STFC

Swindon Town?

He was always going on loan, at that stage now where he needs to test himself, like Robinson, Ibe and McLoughlin last season (the latter needs to go out again).
I'd also send out Lloyd Jones, Jack Dunn and Teixeira...

Knex*

If D'Agger says that we should move on from D'Agger, then that should be the end of it, really.

(Mmmm)Whatcha sayyyy, D'Aggs? :pac:

whatawaster

Mr Alan wrote: »

People criticising Sterling too much were fools.

But him becoming our best player is actually part of the problem. The main reason for that is because Suarez is now gone. He's not ready for that and unless that situation is resolved, it's why we'll miss out on CL this season coming.

Then all Rodgers good work will be for nothing as spending £100m and not getting CL will result in him looking for a new job.

He might be our best attacking player, but for the first time in a long time we have a lot of players to share the burden with him. We have Sturridge, Coutinho, Lallana, Markovic, Lambert and one more striker to come in.

How can you say for sure we'll miss out on CL? We have lots of very good players.

LuckyLloyd

NukaCola wrote: »

You'd think after the season we'd just had and direction we've been heading, people would put a bit of faith in Brendan Rodgers and what players he wants at the club.

Nobody has to follow blindly, but it seems like the same miserable ****ers just want to moan about the same things every year. Even last year when those people were completely blown away by how we played still coming out with nothing but negativity. Our success last season wasn't just all down to Suarez.

I went on record last season saying I was wrong about Rodgers. I'm happy with him and if we finished 10th this season I'd say he should still get another shot at turning it around. I was also bearish on our prospects last season and dramatically proven wrong there too.

That said, I was unhappy with our lack of business in the mid year window last season. Hindsight is everything, but could an additional bit of talent have pushed us over the line at the end? I am unhappy generally with our transfer policy under FSG (thought we were buying the wrong players in the summer of 2011 / and have lacked aggression since then). My contention is that Suarez / the Manager / some unexpected brilliance from young players catapulted us into the mix last season. As such, I think we need to seize the moment now. We are in position, we have money. So act.

I don't feel that is an inconsistent position, nor do I feel it is moaning for moaning's sake to be worried about Suarez's departure in the absence of a significant attempt at filling his void.

Underpaid Mike

Mr Alan wrote: »

People criticising Sterling too much were fools.

But him becoming our best player is actually part of the problem. The main reason for that is because Suarez is now gone. He's not ready for that and unless that situation is resolved, it's why we'll miss out on CL this season coming.

Then all Rodgers good work will be for nothing as spending £100m and not getting CL will result in him looking for a new job.

2+2=8 and a quarter according to that logic
How do you know he isnt ready?
Barca sold Ronaldinho because they decided that a 20 year old Messi was up to the task of carrying the attacking burden by himself. How do you not know that Sterling isnt capable of stepping up and scoring 15 goals this season? He is obviously trusted 100% by his manager, has everything in his game to do this and has grown up hugely over the past 12 months.

If Rodgers went out and spent £30m to buy Sterling from Valencia or Ajax or Milan we would all be creaming ourselves looking at youtube videos of him.
Monaco built a team around a 20 year old james rodriguez, barca a 20 year old messi why can we not do the same with Sterling ?

Mr Alan

whatawaster wrote: »

How can you say for sure we'll miss out on CL? We have lots of very good players.

But are lacking when it comes to genuine top quality when compared to our competitors. Suarez was the best player in the league last year. Losing him is just huge, and as has been said already, our business to date has not given us the best chance to success despite his loss.

Vinz Mesrine

Mr Alan wrote: »

But are lacking when it comes to genuine top quality when compared to our competitors. Suarez was the best player in the league last year. Losing him is just huge, and as has been said already, our business to date has not given us the best chance to success despite his loss.

We get it, you won't be happy until Liverpool have splashed 100m on a striker. It's cool because no matter who it is, they'll definitely settle straight away and score 50 league goals.

And as for our competitors, we have the 3rd best squad in the league right now but I suppose you'll find a way to disagree with that too.

LuckyLloyd

The Incredible Hulk wrote: »

The thread gets totally hijacked every time the negativity takes over. Very frustrating. Last time I was a regular in the SF was a while back and I gave up on it when Rodgers was called a used car salesman and people were saying he (and FSG) were chancers and shouldn't be anywhere near the club.

Now, off the back of one of our brightest seasons in recent memory considering how far we had fallen, and there is still moaning. Nothing wrong with being optimistic, people involved in the club are working hard, trying their best and imo deserve at the very least until the end of the window before the panic button is pushed and negativity reaches a crescendo.

On a public message board sometimes people will voice opinions you don't agree with or focus on issues you don't find interesting yourself. *Shrugs*

NukaCola wrote: »

Some people were happy to let Sterling go out on loan before last season for example.

Yeah, he'd looked leggy and off form for the bulk of the 2012 / 13 season following a promising start and seemingly had legal issues and was keeping the wrong crowd, etc in Liverpool. Hardly an unreasonable shout at the time. His recapturing of that promise of August / September 2012 was one of the highlights of last season.

Mr Alan

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

We get it, you won't be happy until Liverpool have splashed 100m on a striker. It's cool because no matter who it is, they'll definitely settle straight away and score 50 league goals.

You're being incredibly childish tbh.

Do you think there is only the Real Madrid approach or our current approach, do you not think there is an inbetween approach. Attracting young up and coming talent, while also bringing in proven quality....do you not think an approach like that would be possible?

Underpaid Mike

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

We get it, you won't be happy until Liverpool have splashed 100m on a striker. It's cool because no matter who it is, they'll definitely settle straight away and score 50 league goals.

And we can then sell them on for 120m when they turn 32 and bank the profits.
I used that strategy to win back to back Champions Leagues with Yeovil Town

RasTa

Looking for an outside top 4 wager so Vinz

5live

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Skrtel was the better player for me. Both made errors, but at least Skrtel scored a crazy amount of own goals.

FYP;)

Vinz Mesrine

Mr Alan wrote: »

You're being incredibly childish tbh.

Do you think there is only the Real Madrid approach or our current approach, do you not think there is an inbetween approach. Attracting young up and coming talent, while also bringing in proven quality....do you not think an approach like that would be possible?

Do you realise we haven't been in the champions league for 5 years? Do you realise we can't offer the kind of wages City were offering a few years ago? What you and others are proposing is completely ridiculous and given your way, the club would be bankrupt within 5 seasons.

Dickerty

I'm going to pretend there isn't rows going on!

On the youths, interesting to see who is a regular for the U21s this year.
I think we'll see Kent, Wilson, Chirivella and Canos stepping up, and Jordan Williams & Adam Phillips to stay there after stelling up last last season. Vigouroux and Stewart to add some experience to a young side.
Rossiter, Brannagan, DTS and Sinclair to all be stalwarts of the side.

I think we will see less of them getting minutes at first team level, since we have a deeper bench, but we are in the UEFA Youth League, so that will make up for the death of the NextGen (thanks UEFA)...

Vinz Mesrine

RasTa wrote: »

Looking for an outside top 4 wager so Vinz

No question in my mind we'll be top 4 this season.

whatawaster

Mr Alan wrote: »

But are lacking when it comes to genuine top quality when compared to our competitors. Suarez was the best player in the league last year. Losing him is just huge, and as has been said already, our business to date has not given us the best chance to success despite his loss.

Sturridge's last 2 seasons put him in the very top category of premier league strikers, deserving to be mentioned in the same breath as RVP, Rooney and Aguero. He's certainly one of the 5 best. If fit, he'll get the goals. The exact same can be said for the trio I mentioned above.

Sterling and Coutinho are top quality imo. You might argue that Mata, Silva, Ozil and Hazard are a level above them, and they may well be, but our 2 are well on their way to being 2 of the best in the league. I fancy Sterling/Coutinho will score/assist as many or more than some of the above.

Devilman40k

I'd like to know why our business this summer hasn't given us a chance to succeed...

Last season - particularly towards the end of it Suarez and Sturridge both ran out of steam. Henderson got a 3 match ban and we were painfully thin on options to change games or close games out(the Palace result - very nearly in the case of the Norwich game)

We've addressed the bench/squad issues...if last season we had a Can, Lallana to fill in for Henderson's running would he have been as big a loss as he was? Lambert would have given another option to change things in attack - as would Markovic.

It's not all doom and gloom, but we DO need another attacker...and of suitable quality and more importantly of the right mentality to fit in to what Rodgers has instilled in the squad. Panic button doesn't need pushed just yet

Dickerty

Mr Alan wrote: »

You're being incredibly childish tbh.

Do you think there is only the Real Madrid approach or our current approach, do you not think there is an inbetween approach. Attracting young up and coming talent, while also bringing in proven quality....do you not think an approach like that would be possible?

Proven quality like Lallana? Or do they have to be South American?

NabyLadistheman

Lloyd & Alan who should we be targeting as a replacement striker? 3 names?

Cjs21

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

Agree with you to a point about the world class players
But just on James transfer, Monaco did pay £40m for him last summer. He got 10 goals and 14 assists as a playmaker and then was arguably the best player in the world cup this summer. Is he worth £70m probably not but it wasnt a case of Real paying 3x his value as a statement of intent.
He is an outstanding player with a limitless ceiling on how good he could become.

I agree, he has the means to be one of the best but Real Madrid do not need him. Whoever gets Isco will realise that. Anytime he's played he's been brilliant and in my opinion a better player than James

Vinz Mesrine

Suarezistheman wrote: »

Lloyd & Alan who should we be targeting as a replacement striker? 3 names?

I asked that the other day, I didn't get an answer.

Sturridge is rightfully first choice so whoever gets signed will have to be happy sitting on the bench for a lot of the season.

K-9

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

That article completely goes against what you said and you want an apology hahaha.

Indeed, my recollection of the article was harsh on him,it seems he just had a period of bad form. Coutinho had similar for a few months last season, doesn't mean he's a bad player or risky or anything like that.

The fee is a bit high and the usual risks are there for his age, coming from the Portuguese League, all the normal risks with a transfer like this.

LuckyLloyd

whatawaster wrote: »

How can you say for sure we'll miss out on CL? We have lots of very good players.

Can't say for sure, but right now odds for the title are:

Chelsea 19 / 10
Man City 5 / 2
Man Utd 5 / 1
Arsenal 7 / 1
Liverpool 12 / 1
Spurs 66 / 1
Everton 150 / 1

as per best prices by Oddschecker. 'But odds were wrong last year?' you'll surely cry. Sure they were, and they may be wrong again. But the market currently has a negative perception on our top four chances and, by extension, our transfer activity thus far.

Harry Palmr

Dickerty wrote: »

I'm going to pretend there isn't rows going on!

On the youths, interesting to see who is a regular for the U21s this year.
I think we'll see Kent, Wilson, Chirivella and Canos stepping up, and Jordan Williams & Adam Phillips to stay there after stelling up last last season. Vigouroux and Stewart to add some experience to a young side.
Rossiter, Brannagan, DTS and Sinclair to all be stalwarts of the side.

I think we will see less of them getting minutes at first team level, since we have a deeper bench, but we are in the UEFA Youth League, so that will make up for the death of the NextGen (thanks UEFA)...

Youth-chat! yay!

No one saw it but I posted that there is a new U21s competition which will mix 8 English teams with the same number from le Continent I think but Liverpool have decided not to take part. Probably down to the likely number of loans.

As mentioned Brad Jones above off to Swindon Town. Tex, McLaughlin, Rafa Paez, Lloyd Jones will all be sent out by the looks of it, you'd have to think Adorjan will be shown the door.

klose

I love agger as much as everyone but if he wants to go then let him go simply. His value will never be as high and we have spent 40ish million on two centre backs so we say our thanks and say goodbye. Loyalty cuts both ways, he was here through good and bad so if he wants to leave so be it we will only have the fondest memories of agger.
Not many teams have 4 centre backs of quality either because its probably the least rotated area on the pitch so you will have unhappy players, its logical to say you will have sakho/lovren/skrtel playing for two starting spots, one starts on the bench when toure sits in the stands and is strictly back up. No point having 2 cbs on the bench either as you need a full back there too and 3 defenders plus a keeper on the bench is over kill

Vinz Mesrine

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Can't say for sure, but right now odds for the title are:

Chelsea 19 / 10
Man City 5 / 2
Man Utd 5 / 1
Arsenal 7 / 1
Liverpool 12 / 1
Spurs 66 / 1
Everton 150 / 1

as per best prices by Oddschecker. 'But odds were wrong last year?' you'll surely cry. Sure they were, and they may be wrong again. But the market currently has a negative perception on our top four chances and, by extension, our transfer activity thus far.

Wow, just wow. I don't have the words to describe the stupidity of using bookmakers odd.

Tell me, how did the favourites for the world cup get on this summer? The 2nd favs? 3rd favs?

RasTa

They won it...

whatawaster

RasTa wrote: »

They won it...

Brazil were the favourites, then Spain, then Argentina if I remember correctly

Devilman40k

RasTa wrote: »

They won it...

No they didn't....Brazil / Argentina and Spain were favourites

Germany were 13/2 on PP on the first day of the WC

Cjs21

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

Wow, just wow. I don't have the words to describe the stupidity of using bookmakers odd.

Tell me, how did the favourites for the world cup get on this summer? The 2nd favs? 3rd favs?

Well 3 out of the top 4 favourites got into the semi finals :rolleyes:

Kess73

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I went on record last season saying I was wrong about Rodgers. I'm happy with him and if we finished 10th this season I'd say he should still get another shot at turning it around. I was also bearish on our prospects last season and dramatically proven wrong there too.

That said, I was unhappy with our lack of business in the mid year window last season. Hindsight is everything, but could an additional bit of talent have pushed us over the line at the end? I am unhappy generally with our transfer policy under FSG (thought we were buying the wrong players in the summer of 2011 / and have lacked aggression since then). My contention is that Suarez / the Manager / some unexpected brilliance from young players catapulted us into the mix last season. As such, I think we need to seize the moment now. We are in position, we have money. So act.

I don't feel that is an inconsistent position, nor do I feel it is moaning for moaning's sake to be worried about Suarez's departure in the absence of a significant attempt at filling his void.

Last summer we made our biggest purchase towards the end of the window, and it was frustrating to see so much of the suumer seemingly go to waste.

This summer we have to date made five signings of £10m or above (three of those being £20m or above), and look to have another such signing on the way within a week.

We may see some more players leave (Assaidi, Borini, Agger etc), so more money may yet be available.

Yes it is the 7th August, but we have done some good business this summer, we do have more quality in the squad, and we have made some additions to the first team. Plus we have added some players who may well run out to be surprise packages this season (Can and Markovic)


So we are not doing badly this window, and I think we do have the time (and finances to further strengthen both the squad and first team)

Even if Suarez had stayed this was going to be a tough season, but it really is too soon to be pushing any panic buttons. Yes people may be proven correct if they say now that they have doubts about more players being signed, but they could just as easily be proven to be incorrect.


Personally I think that there will be two to three more arrivals (Moreno being one of those), and whilst I think there is no chance of signing a Suarez level player (partly because there are only two or three players on the planet at that level imo), I do think we are going to see some good players arrive.

Moreno and one quality attacker between now and the end of the window would make this a strong window for me, and if we add anything at all on top of that, well it will put us in a good position to compete this coming season.

Vinz Mesrine

RasTa wrote: »

They won it...

I could have imagined Germany won the world cup while Brazil, Argentina and Spain who were the 3 front runners in the market all failed to do so.

What about the bookies favourites to be top scorer? Messi and Neymar, how did they get on? I might be wrong but I'm fairly confident a 66/1 shot won that.

Vinz Mesrine

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

I asked that the other day, I didn't get an answer.

Sturridge is rightfully first choice so whoever gets signed will have to be happy sitting on the bench for a lot of the season.

Why would another top striker have to sit on the bench?

Surely he could play alongside Sturridge?

Cjs21

Devilman40k wrote: »

No they didn't....Brazil / Argentina and Spain were favourites

Germany were 13/2 on PP on the first day of the WC

Spain were the same price as Germany at the start of the WC. 15/2

Brazil were edging towards 7/2 and Argentina were 6/1.

Vinz Mesrine

rarnes1 wrote: »

Why would another top striker have to sit on the bench?

Surely he could play alongside Sturridge?

And drop......

Sturridge, Sterling, Coutinho, Lallana, Henderson and Gerrard are nailed on starters as our front 6.

LuckyLloyd

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

Wow, just wow. I don't have the words to describe the stupidity of using bookmakers odd.

Tell me, how did the favourites for the world cup get on this summer? The 2nd favs? 3rd favs?

Simple question: would you say bookmaker's favourites generally win or lose?

Vinz Mesrine

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Simple question: would you say bookmaker's favourites generally win or lose?

Could you answer my question about the world cup winners this summer? And the top scorer one too.

Please.