Liverpool Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP 28/8

Dickerty

Oranage2 wrote: »

Arsenal signed the French starting right back and and a very promising English right back, Liverpool signed some guy that played 4 games last season.

You are talking rubbish.

There is no point in even comparing all the players that each team has signed, you also have to look at outgoings, existing squad, and performance last season.

We signed Lallana and CAN, you signed no midfielders. Does that mean we are infinately better??

Devilman40k

Oranage2 wrote: »

Arsenal signed the French starting right back and and a very promising English right back, Liverpool signed some guy that played 4 games last season.

In fairness that's one position. Liverpool already have a few RB's and signed a player with potential on what is a no risk basis.

We can also say Liverpool signed one of the most promising wingers in world football or a midfielder that Bayern wanted back or one of the best performing CB's in the PL last season and they'd be equally true statements

rob316

Mr Alan wrote: »

This thread has gotten incredibly arrogant.

Rival fans are I'm going to love it if/when we fall this season

Fixed your post.

Harry Palmr

This thread really has gone to pot, some posters just seem to have a corrosive effect on everything and everyone.

rob316

Harry Palmr wrote: »

This thread really has gone to pot, some posters just seem to have a corrosive effect on everything and everyone.

Ya there's a couple here with there constant negativity that bring out the worst of usually decent posters.

Chip Whitley

A Utd supporting friend of mine who has an unnatural hatred of Liverpool begrudgingly told me the other day that he thought Markovic, Moreno and Manquillo would turn out to be great signings for us. I knew it killed him to say it as he is a big fan of Moreno especially, and I took his word for it as he's one of those people with an almost encyclopaedic knowledge of European football.

Oranage2

Dickerty wrote: »

You are talking rubbish.

There is no point in even comparing all the players that esch team has signed, you also have to look at outgoings, existing squad, and performance last season.

We signed Lallana and CAN, you signed no midfielders. Does that mean we are infinately better??

Yes, if arsenal didn't play any midfielders but as it stands arsenal have Ozil and Ramsey in those positions so Liverpool are infinitely worse in those positions.

Pool have better strikers Yes, but don't don't be talking absolute rubbish that Liverpool are in a better position than arsenal. Pool have qualified for the first time in like 5 years for the champions league, one wonder season doesn't make a summer!

Soft Falling Rain

The Incredible Hulk wrote: »

A Utd supporting friend of mine who has an unnatural hatred of Liverpool begrudgingly told me the other day that he thought Markovic, Moreno and Manquillo would turn out to be great signings for us. I knew it killed him to say it as he is a big fan of Moreno especially, and I took his word for it as he's one of those people with an almost encyclopaedic knowledge of European football.

He's setting you up for the fall, they're gonna be sh1t.

Devilman40k

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

He's setting you up for the fall, they're gonna be sh1t.

Are we reviving the jinx ?? :P

smileyj1987

Oranage2 wrote: »

Arsenal signed the French starting right back and and a very promising English right back, Liverpool signed some guy that played 4 games last season.

Liverpool have signed a player to build into their new right back . Johnson and Flanagan should have that covered for this season and then manquilo can be used when Johnson leaves .
Arsenal need a striker more then anything else and still haven't signed one .

Vinz Mesrine

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

And drop......

Sturridge, Sterling, Coutinho, Lallana, Henderson and Gerrard are nailed on starters as our front 6.

Sterling and Coutinho nailed on to play every game?


Coutinho was seriously hot and cold last season.

Dickerty

Oranage2 wrote: »

Yes, if arsenal didn't play any midfielders but as it stands arsenal have Ozil and Ramsey in those positions so Liverpool are infinitely worse in those positions.

Coutinho and Sterling are infinately worse in the #10 than those two? You are off your meds...
AND we have signed Lallana who can also play there.

:rolleyes:

Hangballlouie

If you converse with an orange, you'll become a cabbage.

brevity

hangballlouie wrote: »

If you converse with an orange, you'll become a cabbage.

hangballlouie, the pulse of the LFC superthread :pac:

Milkers

Oranage2 wrote: »

Yes, if arsenal didn't play any midfielders but as it stands arsenal have Ozil and Ramsey in those positions so Liverpool are infinitely worse in those positions.

Pool have better strikers Yes, but don't don't be talking absolute rubbish that Liverpool are in a better position than arsenal. Pool have qualified for the first time in like 5 years for the champions league, one wonder season doesn't make a summer!

*cough cough*

greendom

smileyj1987 wrote: »

Liverpool have signed a player to build into their new right back . Johnson and Flanagan should have that covered for this season and then manquilo can be used when Johnson leaves .
Arsenal need a striker more then anything else and still haven't signed one .

I'm not so worried about where the goals are going to come from for Arsenal next season, but who will provide the protection in front of defence. If that hole gets filled I'll be very confident about their chances

Sappy404

Have the terms of the Manquillo loan been made public? I read something about it being a 2 year deal with an option to buy for £5m but that Atletico can take him back after a year and have a refusal option on any permanent deal. Seems very odd if true.

Utopia Parkway

Sappy404 wrote: »

Have the terms of the Manquillo loan been made public? I read something about it being a 2 year deal with an option to buy for £5m but that Atletico can take him back after a year and have a refusal option on any permanent deal. Seems very odd if true.

Atletico can take him back after 1 year and Liverpool have an option to buy him after 2 years. Something like that alright.

smileyj1987

Sappy404 wrote: »

Have the terms of the Manquillo loan been made public? I read something about it being a 2 year deal with an option to buy for £5m but that Atletico can take him back after a year and have a refusal option on any permanent deal. Seems very odd if true.

Athletico have first refusal after a year but I think they have to be in the champions league to activate the clause .

K-9

Kess73 wrote: »

Another pretty obvious point may be that Rodgers does not want another first team striker, and instead will be looking to get a number two forward who is in the good to very good level of quality.

Remy would support that, versatile as well.

We were never going to be able to replace Suarez in a like for like manner, so the most obvious thing to do (in my eyes anyway) is to try to improve the team in a number of positions and likewise with the squad.

Indeed, it is so obvious I sometimes wonder why we keep having to say it!

Would be very surprised if we started a lot of games with two out and out strikers, but instead think we will be putting a lot of focus on using the flanks (be it with wingers or wide forwards) and midfield positions to spread the attacking threat.

I'd say Rodgers would like the option of going 2 up front but as you say, I'd be surprised to see it actually used as a formation on the team sheets.

I also think that one of the easiest ways to try and counter some of the goals lost through Suarez leaving will be to decrease the nuber of goals we concede. Rodgers seems to be trying to do this as well by bringing in an organiser in Lovern and high workrate midfield players like Can and Lallana.


Now the next bit from me is going to be very simplistic, but if our new players add say 20 league goals between them, and our defence concede 20 league goals less, then in goal terms at least we have offset Suarez and added a little. Now as I said that is a very simplistic way to look at it and does not take into account that X factor Suarez had on the pitch, Things that cannot really be quantified like how he forced teams to double up on him and what not. But the same can be said with the addition of an organiser in the back line (Lovern) and a player who is both interceptor and provider like Lallana as they bring a bit of the unquantifiable with them as well.

Exactly, we really aren't going to score 101 goals again, but looking at who we've signed and the likes of Remy, if we sign somebody like or better than him we should be getting 70/80 PL goals.

Now before anyone chokes and thinks I am directly comparing Lallana and Lovern to Suarez, I am not doing that. But what I am saying is that the loss of a genius player can be countered by the addition of a number of good players and some changes in tactics and/or formation. Rodgers will know this, and his reputation and possibly his Liverpool career going forward will live or die by such decisions, so we, the supporters, should be just as conscious of it.

Most of us on here are old enough to remember the loss of at least one or two truly top class players, and a number of us are decrepit enough to recall many many more examples.

It can be done, Atletico as mentioned, United after Ronaldo. My worry is while I do think the back 4 will improve continuing the Gerrard experiment will still see us leaky enough at the back, with not as much attacking threat (which would be nearly impossible to match anyway).

But what does seem clear to me is that our current manager is trying to build a unit, a team, and that he seems to be bringing in players to improve us by improving the unit rather than improving us by bringing in a genius to take the weight of the team onto his shoulders.

Will the manager be proven right? Who knows, but I sure as hell hope so, and after last season he should be given the benefit of the doubt as to what he can do with our players. He has earned it for the coming season at the very least.

Indeed. The post below gets at what he is doing:

rarnes1 wrote: »

Sterling and Coutinho nailed on to play every game?


Coutinho was seriously hot and cold last season.

We should have options now that we don't have to persist with players if they are a bit off form or get an injury. We were a bit blessed last season that most of our injuries were at the back, which we'd numbers to cover. Remember us fretting over Gerrard picking up a yellow, Sturridge getting a niggle, the main reason was we'd so little cover. That will improve us as Rodgers will actually be able to make meaningful changes to influence games.

Oranage2

hangballlouie wrote: »

If you converse with an orange, you'll become a cabbage.

That's irony.

Tusky

The Manquillo deal is an odd one. The only winner I see with it are Athletico. If he turns out to be great, they will take him back. The only way he will become a Liverpool player is if they Athletico decide he is not good enough. If he is not good enough for Athletico, is he good enough for Liverpool?

Devilman40k

K-9 there's far too much sense in that post... don't make me take out a slap gif!

whatawaster

Tusky wrote: »

The Manquillo deal is an odd one. The only winner I see with it are Athletico. If he turns out to be great, they will take him back. The only way he will become a Liverpool player is if they Athletico decide he is not good enough. If he is not good enough for Athletico, is he good enough for Liverpool?

The player will have a say, surely. If Manquillo wants to stay at Liverpool, I'd say he can turn Atletico down. Of course, we don't know the exact terms of the deal, but I doubt we'd have gone for it if it was so weighted in Atletico's favour.

Underpaid Mike

Nooooooooo.

MARK HUGHES admits the ongoing pursuit of Liverpool winger Oussama Assaidi has gone cold in recent days but is refusing to give up hope of capturing the Moroccan international before the closure of the transfer window.
Read more at http://www.stokecityfc.com/news/article/hughes-delivers-assaidi-update-1809932.aspx#mDCb4KhJFEJs7eR3.99

dogbert27

One thing that really bugs me is some people wanting to qualify for the CL and then the focus for the coming season is getting into the CL again next year!

Why not focus on being in the CL this season and look to try and win it. Is that not the point of entering a competition, to win it?

I mean, if I just wanted to be happy for qualifying for the CL every year I'd support Arsenal! :pac::D

Devilman40k

dogbert27 wrote: »

One thing that really bugs me is some people wanting to qualify for the CL and then the focus for the coming season is getting into the CL again next year!

Why not focus on being in the CL this season and look to try and win it. Is that not the point of entering a competition, to win it?

I mean, if I just wanted to be happy for qualifying for the CL every year I'd support Arsenal! :pac::D

It's more a case of we havent been there in a while...we need to be there more often. Lets concentrate on qualification for it again. Enjoy the experience but it isn't the be all end all of the season.

The PL is still the main focus

LuckyLloyd

murpho999 wrote: »

Thing is, it's very easy to come on here and be negative. It takes zero effort to find criticisms of decisions and strategies before their implementation has been done.

People here 12 months ago did not rate our chances of top 4 last season and it turned out we almost won the league so I don't so why those posters should get any credence now.

I'd say it's far easier to come onto a football discussion board and be positive tbh.

Who thought we would finish top four on this thread this time last year? Not more than a couple would have called that out. We were all bearish on our chances - to varying extents of course.

LuckyLloyd

dogbert27 wrote: »

One thing that really bugs me is some people wanting to qualify for the CL and then the focus for the coming season is getting into the CL again next year!

Why not focus on being in the CL this season and look to try and win it. Is that not the point of entering a competition, to win it?

I mean, if I just wanted to be happy for qualifying for the CL every year I'd support Arsenal! :pac::D

Well I totally agree on the first bit. As I said yesterday, this club should never accept playing in European competition for the craic.

Kess73

Tusky wrote: »

The Manquillo deal is an odd one. The only winner I see with it are Athletico. If he turns out to be great, they will take him back. The only way he will become a Liverpool player is if they Athletico decide he is not good enough. If he is not good enough for Athletico, is he good enough for Liverpool?

Yeah don't quite get the move myself. Don't know much about the player save for some highlights online, but said it last week that he is surely the inexperienced player his track record suggest that he is, and as such would be third or fourth in the pecking order for the RB slot.

The loan part of it I got the impression that we had a buy clause that stated we had to inform Atletico of our intent to buy before a preagreed date, otherwise Atletico just get him back in the summer of 2016 and the currently preagreed porice goes out the window.



There seems to be a few versions of what the small print is, but it does sound somewhat like the Mascherano loan.

Agent Coulson

Mark Hughes is just doing what we are doing to other clubs.

He is waiting for us to blink first and drop a million or so off the price knowing we want to get Assaidi out.

Kess73

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well I totally agree on the first bit. As I said yesterday, this club should never accept playing in European competition for the craic.

No, we should always be striving to get into the CL, and then striving to win it whenever there, but we should never fall into the trap of thinking we have some sort of right to be there.


This EPL season looks like being one of the toughest ever with regards to the CL slots what with there being at least five clubs, and maybe even up to seven, all genuinely going for four spots.

K-9

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'd say it's far easier to come onto a football discussion board and be positive tbh.

Who thought we would finish top four on this thread this time last year? Not more than a couple would have called that out. We were all bearish on our chances - to varying extents of course.

Most of us have called it wrong over the last couple of years tbh, I wont bring up what you said about Rodgers at the time!

Last season was such an outlier it probably is skewing things. A lot of us thought Suarez would stay another season too. :mad:

I've got a fair few things wrong, giving Rodgers actual time to change things and not wanting EL football last season about the 2 I got bang on!

Tbh I think we are in rebuilding mode and because of the way things have worked out with managers and what not, we'll have a fight to make 4th this season. City and Chelsea for the obvious reasons will be ahead of us, Arsenal if they keep the injuries at bay are ahead of us and United have LVG and no EL distractions.

We should have had the squad we have now built up by last season, that's why you are right when you say we should have bought last January. Because a few transfers didn't work out (which is natural and Rodgers gets harsh criticism on that front) and limits on finances we just couldn't get there.

daRobot

I can't believe people are slating folk for being negative, as we are incredibly striker short as it stands. We've a surplus of attacking midfielders, but we desperately need a first team striker.

Sanchez, or Remy would have been fine, we all know that. But consider the situation if (god forbid) Sturridge gets a 4 month + injury on the opening day, leaving Lambert to lead the line. How can anyone not see total despair in that situation.

Look at what depth United and City have as their forward options. That's the level of cover we should be aiming at.

I always thought it would be Remy (who can play as a WF), plus a new first team striker, but that's clearly not going to happen.

Utopia Parkway

daRobot wrote: »

I can't believe people are slating folk for being negative, as we are incredibly striker short as it stands. We've a surplus of attacking midfielders, but we desperately need a first team striker.

Sanchez, or Remy would have been fine, we all know that. But consider the situation if (god forbid) Sturridge gets a 4 month + injury on the opening day, leaving Lambert to lead the line. How can anyone not see total despair in that situation.

Look at what depth United and City have as their forward options. That's the level of cover we should be aiming at.

I always thought it would be Remy (who can play as a WF), plus a new first team striker, but that's clearly not going to happen.

Yes but we all know that. Rodgers himself said they are looking for another forward. One already failed a bloody medical on us.

At this point we just have to wait and see. Just hope people don't lose their **** when it's not a big name as I doubt it will be.

But just because it won't be a big name doesn't mean they won't be a success.

Vicxas

Underpaid Mike wrote: »

So you are saying we need a striker?
Like every poster on this forum has said at least 3 times this week?
You know that, I know that, everyone on here knows that, BR knows that and said he is going to sign another striker.
Next please

You have to laugh, i cant imagine BR sitting in Melwood going "Thank god we got rid of suarez, now I can buy them magic beans."

He knows, hell the world knows we need a new striker.

Dickerty

Kess73 wrote: »

This EPL season looks like being one of the toughest ever with regards to the CL slots what with there being at least five clubs, and maybe even up to seven, all genuinely going for four spots.

What possibility on getting an extra spot for the EPL and maybe Bundesliga and La Liga, based on success of their clubs over it's lifetime?

Or will it just be a case that one of the big 5 will always miss out? (I'm not counting Spurs or Everton - I'm just not!)

Morzadec

The thing is there's nothing wrong with expressing your opinion, and if that opinion is a negative one so be it.

I too share many reservations about our business this summer. I was hoping for a real top proven exciting player to be brought in and it looks like that won't happen.

I'm not mad on the signing of Lallana as I believe it was a huge fee and we could have got more proven quality for the money.

In the attacking mid position i was hoping for a real star (Sanchez, Griezmann) someone who i could be close to 100% sure would have a real positive impact from the start and potentially be our best player. A largely unproven Markovic fairly underwhelmed me in this area, and i share many of the reservations Alan has about him. He looks very raw imo.

However, it's the tone that accompanies these opinions which is pretty unacceptable, riles people up and derails the thread.

Alan - you are not a sage. There is no reason your opinion should be valued higher than others'. Don't make the mistake of believing that football is predictable because it most certainly is not.

You were proven horribly wrong before - would this not humble you somewhat, make you see that you can't possibly know it all and that your perceptions can sometimes lead you astray? Don't be ashamed to admit it, you're human like the rest of us. Is there a secret (maybe unconcious?) part of you hoping that you will be jusrified after all about Rodgers? I failed to believe this was ever the case and dismissed the posters who levelled this accusation towards you and Lloyd. It's clear you both love the club and i never would have thought this of you. Some of your posts recently have led me to question this though...

While I'm not enthused by Markovic (for example) i fully acknowledge that he may prove me wrong and go on to have a great season. You have to acknowledge this is a fairly decent possibility, just like you should have with Rodgers.

There is nothing wrong with you giving your opinion that YOU THINK our transfer policy will fail, and that YOU THINK we will miss out on CL this season. It's a view I almost share (i have big doubts about the season ahead and i have been largely disappointed with the window given what it promised) Just like there would have been nothing wrong with Lloyd expressing his opinion that Rodgers would likely fail 2 summers ago, if it were phrased in such a way (i.e an opinion that one fully acknowledges could be wrong rather than a 'i know better than you' statement of opinion as fact).

However, it is the tone, the certainty, the refusal to acknowledge the total unpredictability of football, the refusal to acknowledge that a player you have never seen (Markovic) might possibly turn out to be a Serbian Sterling, the seeming certainty that the positive posters' opinions are not based on sound ground but instead on flimsy blind faith and the subsequent dismissal of said opinions due to this... this is what makes your posts tedious and antagonizing to read.

Nothing wrong with critical/negative opinions. But the certainty in which they are expressed is as tedious and laughable as the bravado of the stereotyped Liverpool fan who rival fans project onto us - the fan who proclaims it is "our year", that Markovic is the new Messi, that there's no way Rodgers won't bring the league home this year, and who will belligerently block out any rational argument against why he might be mistaken.

You are in many ways the mirror image, the negative version of this fan. And that's what drives other posters up the wall and understandably often makes them unreceptive to some of your posts.

RasTa

whatawaster wrote: »

Brazil were the favourites, then Spain, then Argentina if I remember correctly

lol at the people thanking this, bar Spain one came 2nd and the other 4th.

RasTa

Mr Alan wrote: »

This thread has gotten incredibly arrogant.

Rival fans are going to love it if/when we fall this season

I have 76 Moyes pics with Rodgers face Photoshopped on them waiting for the humor thread.

LLoyd will be getting it too.

Dickerty

Brad Smith on loan to Swindon, Coady signs for Huddersfield, and Rafa Paez on loan to Bologna with an option to buy for €3M! (he was a free 12 months ago). Things are picking up since they for back to England...

Agent Coulson

I do kind of get a deja vu to 2012 search for a striker/forward.

Lot's of talk from everyone that we neeed to get a striker/forward in this goes to the last day of the transfer window when we made an embarrassing offer to Fulham of £3m and Henderson by all accounts for Clint Dempsey.

Ian Ayre and Brendan Rodgers ended up going home before the transfer window even closed when that offer was turned down.

(Fulham are probably kicking themselves now for losing out on Henderson.)

Now I know we were working under different financial constraints at that time.

I do hope we can get this sorted before the 16th and the very latest the 31st. I don't want to have to wait till the New Year to go looking for a striker/forward then if we are playing catch up then we really will have to pay over the odds for a striker/forward that probably isn't anywhere near first choice.

whatawaster

RasTa wrote: »

lol at the people thanking this, bar Spain one came 2nd and the other 4th.

What?

K-9

I do think, and this isn't specifically aimed at Al or Lloyd, it can be difficult to fully admit an opinion was wrong, and even when it is proven so (Rodgers totally exceling any reasonable expectations) the opinion is still lingering there in the back of the mind!

Underpaid Mike

RasTa wrote: »

lol at the people thanking this, bar Spain one came 2nd and the other 4th.

Liverpool 4/6 to sign Falcao. Should I get his name on my new jersey ?

super_furry

I don't see how people can ignore three years of FSG transfer policy in order to allow themselves to believe they'll sanction a deal for Falcao. Lacazette is much more realistic.

Kess73

Dickerty wrote: »

What possibility on getting an extra spot for the EPL and maybe Bundesliga and La Liga, based on success of their clubs over it's lifetime?

Or will it just be a case that one of the big 5 will always miss out? (I'm not counting Spurs or Everton - I'm just not!)

No chance I hope. I actually don't like the four club set up despite it being the reason we were able to be in the CL to reach two finals.


Extra clubs getting in would only reek of a money making venture and further dilute the prestige of the competition imho.

Dickerty

super_furry wrote: »

I don't see how people can ignore three years of FSG transfer policy in order to allow themselves to believe they'll sanction a deal for Falcao. Lacazette is much more realistic.

I think they have softened their position a little. Lallana is older than they would typically have looked for, and Lambert is obviously older still! They know we need players that can slot in now and not in 2 years. So if the right striker came available, even in their later 20s, I think they might swallow their pride...

Dickerty

Kess73 wrote: »

No chance I hope. I actually don't like the four club set up despite it being the reason we were able to be in the CL to reach two finals.

Extra clubs getting in would only reek of a money making venture and further dilute the prestige of the competition imho.

Yeh, I thought the same thing.

But you know that it IS a money making venture, yeh?

Kess73

RasTa wrote: »

I have 76 Moyes pics with Rodgers face Photoshopped on them waiting for the humor thread.

LLoyd will be getting it too.

76 you say? That is a weird coincidence, I just so happen to have 76 yellow cards with some poster's name shopped onto them :pac:


#KESSLOVESBROD

#Rodgersismydad