Why are Man Utd and Liverpool by far the most popular English clubs in Ireland ?

Dublin Spur

Both cities are historical destinations for Irish emmigrants over the years but so are other cities like London, Birmingham and Coventry for example.

Both have had some great Irish Players over the years but so have many other clubs in other cities.

There are some great clubs in the UK but it seems that these 2 gets a massively disproportionate level of support from us Irish ?

What's been driving this and what does it say about us ?

anncoates

It's certainly a mystery how the 2 most successful clubs in British history are the most popular here.

Maybe somebody could commission an academic study to get to the bottom of it.

Backstreet Moyes

Well for United and Liverpool it is success.

Liverpool dominated and had the best players so Irish fans followed them.

United dominated and had the best players so Irish fans followed them.

Then these peoples children are brought up watching who their father supports and the cycle goes on. Also you follow your friends in school who follow the most popular teams.

GavRedKing

Success and family ties usually dictate who people follow.

Pudders

As Mrs Merton said to Debbie Magee "What first attracted you to the millionaire Paul Daniels."

I am pie

I have a cousin who supports Coventry, very unfortunate for him the first FA Cup he watched was the 87 classic starring Bennet, Keith Houchen and co.

Cracking final, damn shame for my long suffering cousin, has actually been to the ricoh a few times, not sure he'll make the trip to northampton.

Shanotheslayer

I got fcked over supporting Everton so :pac:

Dublin Spur

I'm a little surprised that it's simply down to them winning the most

I would have thought there's more criteria to consider than just winning

RasTa

Really? It's simply like how everyone knew of the Chicago Bulls when Jordan was playing with them.

Dozen Wicked Words

I am pie wrote: »

I have a cousin who supports Coventry, very unfortunate for him the first FA Cup he watched was the 87 classic starring Bennet, Keith Houchen and co.

Cracking final, damn shame for my long suffering cousin, has actually been to the ricoh a few times, not sure he'll make the trip to northampton.

He's missing the jewel of East Midlands (or West Anglia, or wherever the fupp it's described) that is Northampton, with its soon be ridiculously crapply upgraded Sixfields Stadium.

Which will feature what looks like a portacabin stuck to the stand to make executive boxes, and a rarity in modern stadia, restricted view seating. Mmmmmmm, restricted view.

Liam O

Dublin Spur wrote: »

I'm a little surprised that it's simply down to them winning the most

I would have thought there's more criteria to consider than just winning

The fact Roy Keane played for United growing up definitely had an effect on me. Irwin too. My uncle gave me the 92/93 and 93/94 DVDs when I was about 4 or 5 so I just kind of did always support them.

A nation of glory hunters.

Let's not make excuses!

Augmerson

It was a kind of family thing in the 80s, nearly out of an extreme dislike bordering on disgusted hatred for Margaret Thatcher that had us develop a fondness for Liverpool. It's a very Irish city though we had no links. They played amazing football and always had great Irish talent from the days of Steve Highway up to....Phil Babb...but anway. Liverpool just seems very Irish, couldn't give a **** about the Tories and Thatcher that did their best to destroy working class people in 80's Britain and did a fair job on Liverpool at that.

The big reason I followed them was Jason McAteer joining, even though he was born in Birkenhead. I idolised him. He wasnt the best player they ever had but I thought he was class back in the day. I liked the Roy Evans era a lot even if it only got the club a Coca Cola cup.

When you hear The Fields of Anfield Road resonating out of the stadium you really feel a deep sense of connection and familiarity. So many Irish immigrants ended up in Liverpool. It's like an Irish enclave.

batistuta9

A more interesting question for me is when did irish people start supporting the English clubs primarily instead and why?

CSF

Cause me uncle supported United and my Da supported Coventry so I did it to spite him.

Augmerson

batistuta9 wrote: »

A more interesting question for me is when did irish people start supporting the English clubs primarily instead and why?

You need to get a copy of Who Stole Our Game by Daire Whelan.

For many people, following English football clubs has not substituted following Irish clubs. I follow Bohemians and try get up to a few games every year.

Will I Amnt

As good as a flip of a coin for me. I was brought up a Celtic and Home Farm fan and joined an U9's team and was basically told I was either a United or Liverpool supporter, they were the only 2 teams that anybody supported as far as the other lads on the team were concerned so I had a few seconds to think and chose United at a time when Liverpool were the dominant team in England. Could so easily be arguing from the other side.

smcgiff

Mmm.

To give SOME Man Utd fans their due, they were very popular well before Alex Ferguson turned them into the powerhouse they became.

Says, a bitter Liverpool fan.

*edit* and more importantly, since when did mere plebs like me get to post in the soccer forum?!?

flazio

I think it's more about how strong the Irish influence was in these cities around the time that the clubs were established. Plenty of working class people in both cities had strong Irish connections and therefore they started supporting the local team.

SureYWouldntYa

I think people from Ireland who support Celtic just because they're catholic are tits

niallo27

batistuta9 wrote: »

A more interesting question for me is when did irish people start supporting the English clubs primarily instead and why?

When I was growing up all the irish players were playing in England for big clubs so it's only natural to have a love for the English game. All we had was the English game. There was no local football around me. The only fancy football we had was Italian football on a Monday night at 8 o'clock where they always showed extended highlights of a nil nil game for some reason. Remember Milan went on the crazy unbeaten run. Was it Atlanta that beat them in the end.

AgileMyth

Because Irish people don't understand how football works and just follow events and success.

niallo27

AgileMyth wrote: »

Because Irish people don't understand how football works and just follow events and success.

We do. You kick it in the goals and if it's goes in it's a goal.

CSF

flazio wrote: »

I think it's more about how strong the Irish influence was in these cities around the time that the clubs were established. Plenty of working class people in both cities had strong Irish connections and therefore they started supporting the local team.

Weird that Man City and Everton aren't so well supported then. Give over!!!

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

I think people from Ireland who support Celtic just because they're catholic are tits

That's nice.

flazio

flazio wrote: »

I think it's more about how strong the Irish influence was in these cities around the time that the clubs were established. Plenty of working class people in both cities had strong Irish connections and therefore they started supporting the local team.

Large Irish population in Birmingham.

A few Villa fans about but in comparison to Liverpool and Utd it's a tiny percentage, and I've never met a Birmingham fan

AgileMyth

niallo27 wrote: »

. There was no local football around me.

I don't know where you're from but that's not true.

Another bull**** reason to 'support' whichever English team the cool kid in you primary school followed

Mr_Spaceman

anncoates wrote: »

It's certainly a mystery how the 2 most successful clubs in British English history are the most popular here.

Sorry to be pedantic, but Rangers are the most successful club in world football in terms of trophies won.

But you're right of course, Man Utd and Liverpool are always going to be hugely popular in Ireland. Big success always brings a big following.

And the legacy of that lasts for a long time, especially in Liverpool's case, given that they haven't won a league title since 1990.

Interestingly, to ask the same question in the 1970s it's highly likely Leeds United would be right up there in terms of Irish popularity. I'm sure they still are, relatively speaking.

niallo27

AgileMyth wrote: »

I don't know where you're from but that's not true.

Another bull**** reason to 'support' whichever English team the cool kid in you primary school followed

I'm in clare and I was the cool kid in primary school.

batistuta9

AgileMyth wrote: »

Because Irish people don't understand how football works and just follow events and success.

Do you support your local team or do you support the most successful club/highest in the irish football pyramid that's located in your general area

Dublin Spur

What do u reckon the split is ?
I reckon
Liverpool 40%
Man Utd 40%
The rest 20%

flazio

rarnes1 wrote: »

Large Irish population in Birmingham.

A few Villa fans about but in comparison to Liverpool and Utd it's a tiny percentage, and I've never met a Birmingham fan

Perhaps, but how often would the Birmingham Irish be back home in comparison to Liverpool Irish or Manchester Irish back in the days when flying was for the elite.
Liverpool were better supported because the docks had loads of Irish workers on site and Liverpool fc fans were welcoming of them. Over in Manchester, Man City were less welcoming of immigrants and therefore most Irish got behind Man United.

Will I Amnt

I have a Leinster Senior League team 200 yards from my house, I watch them every other week. Does that allow me take the moral high ground over LOI fans?

Augmerson

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

Sorry to be pedantic, but Rangers are the most successful club in world football in terms of trophies won.

Winning a **** load of leagues in a two horse race does not make you one or the most successful club in world football.

Iused2likebusts

Truth be told by and large we are a nation of event junkies and glory hunters myself included.

WesternZulu

Because most people in Ireland don't have a LOI team near them they can identify with...but have no problem finding some loose connections to cities in the North West of England though.

You can justify anything if you try hard enough.

ceegee

Big clubs get more exposure on tv which I think plays a big part. I could have supported some random division 2 club but theres little point if the only time youll see them play is once a year in the fa cup (if that).
Even in recent years, rte always show united and liverpool european games ahead of more attractive fixtures involving other clubs


Other factors for people supporting united/pool:

Prominent Irish players in the 80s/90s.
Peer pressure
Success (most of us enjoy a taste of glory, especially as a child)

Also Eric Cantona seemed like the coolest person in the world to a 10 year old me and was a big reason for me supporting United

The_Kew_Tour

Will I Amnt wrote: »

I have a Leinster Senior League team 200 yards from my house, I watch them every other week. Does that allow me take the moral high ground over LOI fans?

Yes, when they themselves dont support their local club.

Most LOI fans are not local in that they support club next door, more support where chanting and having signs does not look stupid.

niallo27

WesternZulu wrote: »

Because most people in Ireland don't have a LOI team near them they can identify with...but have no problem finding some loose connections to cities in the North West of England though.

You can justify anything if you try hard enough.

I don't justify supporting Liverpool to anyone. I couldn't give a flying **** what people think of it.

Zico

WesternZulu wrote: »

Because most people in Ireland don't have a LOI team near them they can identify with...but have no problem finding some loose connections to cities in the North West of England though.

You can justify anything if you try hard enough.

Some people even use foreign sounding alter egos on the internet.:o

Say No to Foreign Names!:p

CSF

flazio wrote: »

Perhaps, but how often would the Birmingham Irish be back home in comparison to Liverpool Irish or Manchester Irish back in the days when flying was for the elite.
Liverpool were better supported because the docks had loads of Irish workers on site and Liverpool fc fans were welcoming of them. Over in Manchester, Man City were less welcoming of immigrants and therefore most Irish got behind Man United.

The funniest part is that you're actually putting this forward as a serious argument.

WesternZulu

flazio wrote: »

Liverpool were better supported because the docks had loads of Irish workers on site and Liverpool fc fans were welcoming of them. Over in Manchester, Man City were less welcoming of immigrants and therefore most Irish got behind Man United.

The Trammere and Oldham fans must have been a right shower of bast**ds back in the day since absolutely no-one in Ireland seems to support them.

batistuta9

Augmerson wrote: »

You need to get a copy of Who Stole Our Game by Daire Whelan.

For many people, following English football clubs has not substituted following Irish clubs. I follow Bohemians and try get up to a few games every year.

i must check it out. what'd you make of it?

yeah i know that but for the majority - myself included - it has.

niallo27 wrote: »

When I was growing up all the irish players were playing in England for big clubs so it's only natural to have a love for the English game. All we had was the English game. There was no local football around me. The only fancy football we had was Italian football on a Monday night at 8 o'clock where they always showed extended highlights of a nil nil game for some reason. Remember Milan went on the crazy unbeaten run. Was it Atlanta that beat them in the end.

ceegee wrote: »

Big clubs get more exposure on tv which I think plays a big part. I could have supported some random division 2 club but theres little point if the only time youll see them play is once a year in the fa cup (if that).
Even in recent years, rte always show united and liverpool european games ahead of more attractive fixtures involving other clubs


Other factors for people supporting united/pool:

Prominent Irish players in the 80s/90s.
Peer pressure
Success (most of us enjoy a taste of glory, especially as a child)

Also Eric Cantona seemed like the coolest person in the world to a 10 year old me and was a big reason for me supporting United

you two are what late 20s to mid 30s. people far older than you supporting them though.

but the reasons you've is true for a lot of people & will still continue to be. maybe even a bigger factor with greater exposure to it now even compared to 20 years ago.

Mr_Spaceman

Augmerson wrote: »

Winning a **** load of leagues in a two horse race does not make you one or the most successful club in world football.

I was just stating a fact. Similarly Penarol in Uruguay are right up there regarding success.

You might not like it but it remains a fact nonetheless.

BMMachine

Man Utd were followed by kids in the 90s, a lot of those kids were on the bandwagon as Utd would win for them and this was especially good if you knew sweet f.a. about football. as with all things, a counter culture developed and Liverpool were the natural counter to Utd.
I always saw 2 types of Man Utd fan back in school. the guys who were super into them and knew their stuff and then the guys who supported them by default and just liked someone winning for them. picking Ryu in street fighter 2 and being a man utd fan went hand in hand, safe bets and no risk, you knew what you were getting. and with anything popular there is the counter culture attached to it so there ya go.

oh sorry, the answer is "my dad supported them so I do"

Iused2likebusts

BMMachine wrote: »

Man Utd were followed by kids in the 90s, a lot of those kids were on the bandwagon as Utd would win for them and this was especially good if you knew sweet f.a. about football. as with all things, a counter culture developed and Liverpool were the natural counter to Utd.
I always saw 2 types of Man Utd fan back in school. the guys who were super into them and knew their stuff and then the guys who supported them by default and just liked someone winning for them. picking Ryu in street fighter 2 and being a man utd fan went hand in hand, safe bets and no risk, you knew what you were getting. and with anything popular there is the counter culture attached to it so there ya go.

oh sorry, the answer is "my dad supported them so I do"

The same argument in reverse could be made for the 80s

BMMachine

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

The same argument in reverse could be made for the 80s

probably could be but I grew up in the 90s so its what I know and what I saw

Guy:Incognito

AgileMyth wrote: »

I don't know where you're from but that's not true.

Another bull**** reason to 'support' whichever English team the cool kid in you primary school followed

Theres no such thing as a bull**** reason. "I want to" is fine and its no ones business to question that.



As for the glory hunter posts, if you going to be picking a team, why wouldn't you pick the better one?

Iused2likebusts

BMMachine wrote: »

probably could be but I grew up in the 90s so its what I know and what I saw

I grew up in the 80s when Liverpool were dominant challenged by Everton and then arsenal yet utd had a lot more fans than arsenal or everton. Personally I decided to pick whatever team won the 83 milk cup final so I was a 6 yr old glory hunter.

P_1

The two most common narratives are that 1) people picked the team that was the most successful and high profile when they were of the age to pick a side and that 2) people are quite impressionable when they first picked their team so if their dad/uncle/brother/friend supported a team then chances are that they were also going to support said team.

Personally I think it's a little from column A and a little from column B.

Mr_Spaceman

Perceived 'glamour' is a factor at play here too.

I'm guessing that up until 1993 when Man Utd hadn't won the league since 1967, the attraction in Ireland must have stemmed from the glamour of previous eras, and the stories passed down thereafter.

It certainly wasn't anything to do with gathering lots of silverware in the intervening years.

Or maybe United storytellers just spin a better yarn than most.