Why are Man Utd and Liverpool by far the most popular English clubs in Ireland ?

adox

I started supporting Utd around 1975. It's a bit of a myth that Sky popularised the premier league with Irish kids although they did raise the profile.

When I was in school at the time I started supporting Utd, pretty much everyone followed the English first division and supported a team. Match Of The Day was a huge event on Saturday nights and was discussed in detail the following week in school.

Augmerson

batistuta9 wrote: »

i must check it out. what'd you make of it?

It's worth the read if you can find it. Think it's gone out of print now, you might have to resort to the library or 2nd hand to source it. It's not definitive but is a very good history of Irish soccer but maybe focuses a little too much on Dublin clubs and in particular Shamrocks and Bohemians (or Drumcondra). Also mentions the numerous crisis and underhand dealings that have occurred within the FAI.

The_Kew_Tour

adox wrote: »

I started supporting Utd around 1975. It's a bit of a myth that Sky popularised the premier league with Irish kids although they did raise the profile.

When I was in school at the time I started supporting Utd, pretty much everyone followed the English first division and supported a team. Match Of The Day was a huge event on Saturday nights and was discussed in detail the following week in school.

Did you pick Ryu in Street Fighter? That's the question that needs to be answered

BMMachine

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Did you pick Ryu in Street Fighter? That's the question that needs to be answered

I was making a comparison as to how some people think and react. Taking the safe bets and having a somewhat paranoid mentality when it comes to not following the pack. This kinda thing is hardwired into our DNA so it isn't exactly new information. The same could be used with a lot of aspects in entertainment. Whats your favourite band? "U2". Whats your favourite movie? "Shawshank Redemption". Who do you use in Street Fighter? "Ryu" What team do you support? "Man Utd". Cookie cutter stuff tbh. Now I'm not saying Liverpool are the exotic Dhalsims of this world or anything like that. The question is "why are man utd and Liverpool by far the most popular english clubs in Ireland" and, in my opinion, a lot of that answer is down to the base mentality of the people that support them and why they like what they like

Will I Amnt

BMMachine wrote: »

I was making a comparison as to how some people think and react. Taking the safe bets and having a somewhat paranoid mentality when it comes to not following the pack. This kinda thing is hardwired into our DNA so it isn't exactly new information. The same could be used with a lot of aspects in entertainment. Whats your favourite band? "U2". Whats your favourite movie? "Shawshank Redemption". Who do you use in Street Fighter? "Ryu" What team do you support? "Man Utd". Cookie cutter stuff tbh. Now I'm not saying Liverpool are the exotic Dhalsims of this world or anything like that. The question is "why are man utd and Liverpool by far the most popular english clubs in Ireland" and, in my opinion, a lot of that answer is down to the base mentality of the people that support them and why they like what they like

So you started supporting Liverpool in a hipster kind of way?

adox

Who the **** has U2 as their favourite band?.............ever?

jacool

adox wrote: »

Who the **** has U2 as their favourite band?.............ever?

U2 have sold more than 150 million records. Clearly someone!
Not me, I might add.
Maybe like United, they are huge in India.

U2s early stuff was fantastic.

greendom

rarnes1 wrote: »

U2s early stuff was fantastic.

Agreed. Wish they had split up after Rattle and Hum

CSF

rarnes1 wrote: »

U2s early stuff was fantastic.

So was Liverpool's to be fair.

Gandalph

Back when I was younger my mate told me he'd give me a stick of gum if I started supporting Liverpool so I did.

Liam O

They've become so preachy, not that they weren't before but when the song quality doesn't back it up as much it does grate. Still throw on the old greatest hits from time to time though.

BMMachine

Will I Amnt wrote: »

So you started supporting Liverpool in a hipster kind of way?

nope, but lots of people did. btw, counter-culture /= hipster.

actually, this seems to be a good example. you like getting little wins on forums, this probably applies to other aspects in life, man utd win a lot and are a pretty safe bet for it, you comment on my post in the most insulting way possible without breaking forum rules (to be identified as a hipster and the whole "before it was cool" aspect to it is reasonably insulting as it implies a certain lack of self awareness and ultimately, a form of cringeworthy stupidity) and clock yourself up another mental win. There is no doubt in my mind that you supporting manchester united and the way you talk and post on this forum are deeply connected. there is also no doubt that people rail against that type of mentality and therefore take up the opposite, which when transferred to premier league football teams, is liverpool

RayCun

BMMachine wrote: »

nope, but lots of people did. btw, counter-culture /= hipster.

actually, this seems to be a good example. you like getting little wins on forums, this probably applies to other aspects in life, man utd win a lot and are a pretty safe bet for it, you comment on my post in the most insulting way possible without breaking forum rules

The amusing things are that
You are doing the same thing
Liverpool are represented as some sort of outsider cult, whose fans care nothing for victories, rather than a slightly older generation of glory seeker

BMMachine

RayCun wrote: »

whose fans care nothing for victories

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... no?

Will I Amnt

BMMachine wrote: »

nope, but lots of people did. btw, counter-culture /= hipster.

actually, this seems to be a good example. you like getting little wins on forums, this probably applies to other aspects in life, man utd win a lot and are a pretty safe bet for it, you comment on my post in the most insulting way possible without breaking forum rules (to be identified as a hipster and the whole "before it was cool" aspect to it is reasonably insulting as it implies a certain lack of self awareness and ultimately, a form of cringeworthy stupidity) and clock yourself up another mental win. There is no doubt in my mind that you supporting manchester united and the way you talk and post on this forum are deeply connected. there is also no doubt that people rail against that type of mentality and therefore take up the opposite, which when transferred to premier league football teams, is liverpool

What in the hell are you on about?

BMMachine

Will I Amnt wrote: »

What in the hell are you on about?

oh who knows man mad complex innit

Will I Amnt

BMMachine wrote: »

oh who knows man mad complex innit

Not complex, just bizarre TBH. It was a jokey comment, sorry if you're offended by the word hipster.

Oh and sorry to all the people that were forced into supporting Liverpool because of me and people like me.

BMMachine

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Not complex, just bizarre TBH. It was a jokey comment, sorry if you're offended by the word hipster.

Oh and sorry to all the people that were forced into supporting Liverpool because of me and people like me.

ohhhh nice one. i admit defeat. you win!

Will I Amnt

BMMachine wrote: »

ohhhh nice one. i admit defeat. you win!

Don't know what it is you're trying to prove here but I won't drag it out any further, let's call it a draw...

MarkY91

my family are liverpool fans because of a few reasons. the ones you mentioned about irish players, irish immigrants in the cities. also my dad lived there in the 70s and fell in love with the club and we have and forever will be liverpool fans. most scousers i meet when in liverpool are "half irish"

CSF

MarkY91 wrote: »

my family are liverpool fans because of a few reasons. the ones you mentioned about irish players, irish immigrants in the cities. also my dad lived there in the 70s and fell in love with the club and we have and forever will be liverpool fans. most scousers i meet when in liverpool are "half irish"

Are they yeah

dd972

Proximity to Ireland, big Irish heritage in both cities, years of domestic and European success, loads of good Irish players going back years excelling for both clubs.

Scousers and Mancunians even with no Irish links are closer to us in humour, banter, accent and outlook than those gormless Sun reading ''sahrf east'' types who support London clubs, vote Tory and speak with s**t accents.

dd972

Augmerson wrote: »

It was a kind of family thing in the 80s, nearly out of an extreme dislike bordering on disgusted hatred for Margaret Thatcher that had us develop a fondness for Liverpool. It's a very Irish city though we had no links. They played amazing football and always had great Irish talent from the days of Steve Highway up to....Phil Babb...but anway. Liverpool just seems very Irish, couldn't give a **** about the Tories and Thatcher that did their best to destroy working class people in 80's Britain and did a fair job on Liverpool at that.

The big reason I followed them was Jason McAteer joining, even though he was born in Birkenhead. I idolised him. He wasnt the best player they ever had but I thought he was class back in the day. I liked the Roy Evans era a lot even if it only got the club a Coca Cola cup.

When you hear The Fields of Anfield Road resonating out of the stadium you really feel a deep sense of connection and familiarity. So many Irish immigrants ended up in Liverpool. It's like an Irish enclave.

You may or may not be aware of this but Everton were traditionally the ''Irish Catholic'' club in Liverpool up until the 1950's / 60's, sectarianism in the city is a shadow of it's former self due to migration from the city out to new towns like Kirkby, Runcorn and Skelmersdale which decimated old ''Orange'' or ''Green'' strongholds, a bit of an anomaly is that Liverpool have the larger Irish fanbase ( due to their success ) but local Evertonians to this day are more likely to be of an Irish Catholic heritage.

BMMachine

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Don't know what it is you're trying to prove here but I won't drag it out any further, let's call it a draw...

trying? don't have to. you have already done the heavy lifting.
***

A lot will always, and have the right to, claim family connections to a club. my nephews support utd. as the dad would have it no other way. I have a friend with the same deal, so yeah there is that sort of indoctrination. I never really felt that Irish roots had much to do with any of it. Aston Villa in the 90s had a rake of Irish players and I would say it was 1 in 50 who would support them. Again its more a cultural thing and supporting is, at a base level, done to make you happy so to find out why people support who they support you have to look at the individual. There are a lot of different factors but what wins out in my opinion is what makes that person happy about supporting that particular team.

Noo

Im a family of arsenal fans....my dad borned and raised us so. My brother grew up in the 80s and has said that if it was his choice back then he'd probably be a liverpool fan now, given their success and his school friends and stuff. He's arsenal through and through and would never change that but at least he's honest about it.

Richard Hillman

Whatever teams are on TV the most are usually the most popular with the kids. You see a few teams and players you like and then you tend to get attracted to one. When I was a kid, I didnt have Sky Sports so the team I seen the most was AC Milan on C4 and in the Champions League. I became attracted to them, got mammy to get me a jersey and loved a lot of the players until C4 stopped showing Serie A. I lost interest a fair bit after that.

A lot of kids now a days you would see Chelsea, Real Madrid, Barcelona jerseys. You never really seen them in the 90s. When I was young it was usually Man Utd, Liverpool, Ireland and some Serie A teams. The teams that were on TV the most.

CSF

dd972 wrote: »

You may or may not be aware of this but Everton were traditionally the ''Irish Catholic'' club in Liverpool up until the 1950's / 60's, sectarianism in the city is a shadow of it's former self due to migration from the city out to new towns like Kirkby, Runcorn and Skelmersdale which decimated old ''Orange'' or ''Green'' strongholds, a bit of an anomaly is that Liverpool have the larger Irish fanbase ( due to their success ) but local Evertonians to this day are more likely to be of an Irish Catholic heritage.

Man they're both completely 100% English, don't be ridiculous.

Augmerson

dd972 wrote: »

You may or may not be aware of this but Everton were traditionally the ''Irish Catholic'' club in Liverpool up until the 1950's / 60's, sectarianism in the city is a shadow of it's former self due to migration from the city out to new towns like Kirkby, Runcorn and Skelmersdale which decimated old ''Orange'' or ''Green'' strongholds, a bit of an anomaly is that Liverpool have the larger Irish fanbase ( due to their success ) but local Evertonians to this day are more likely to be of an Irish Catholic heritage.

I did know something about that. I also heard that Goodison was the first football ground in England to have a Catholic chapel (I think a chapel is the name for a small church?) built on the grounds though I'm not 100% about that.

AgileMyth

batistuta9 wrote: »

Do you support your local team or do you support the most successful club/highest in the irish football pyramid that's located in your general area

Footballs from the showgrounds used to end up in my garden from time to time.

Shanotheslayer

Augmerson wrote: »

I did know something about that. I also heard that Goodison was the first football ground in England to have a Catholic chapel (I think a chapel is the name for a small church?) built on the grounds though I'm not 100% about that.

You are correct Sir. We also don't play games on Sundays early kick offs as it would interrupt the Mass(Think I remember reading that somewhere)

Omackeral

I dunno the correct answer but the last time I was in the pub for a United vs Liverpool game there were a load of 'Scouse B*stards' and 'Dirty Mancs' giving each other loads of verbals. I could have sworn they were just lads from my town but no, they seemed to be well and truly from from those cities. Uncanny resemblance to the locals though.

Dublin Spur

growing up in the 80s I wasn't turned onto football until Mexico 86.
after that everything changed.

my pals had already made their club choices (plenty of liverpool & man utd) and I needed to make mine.

I had no older brothers and a dad into GAA so I had a free hand.

I opted for spurs in the end

I loved the 86/87 team of hoddle, waddle, ossie, clive allen's 49 goals etc..
I loved the name of the club
I loved the hummel kit

funnily enough I actually wrote to spurs, liverpool and man utd asking for info/photos about their clubs. Only spurs wrote back.

and that was that

Omackeral

Omackeral wrote: »

I dunno the correct answer but the last time I was in the pub for a United vs Liverpool game there were a load of 'Scouse B*stards' and 'Dirty Mancs' giving each other loads of verbals. I could have sworn they were just lads from my town but no, they seemed to be well and truly from from those cities. Uncanny resemblance to the locals though.

I know a few lads that use the scouse and manc thing too. Sounds a bit ridiculous coming from an Irish fan tbh

anncoates

On the note of Who Stole Our Game - which is now out of print - there's used copies on Amazon UK albeit a fairly eye-watering prices!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/0717140040/ref=dp_olp_all_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=all

If you can hunt down a copy, it's well worth a read, not just for the balanced look at the domestic league but for the FAI stuff as well.

dd972

CSF wrote: »

Man they're both completely 100% English, don't be ridiculous.

I won't argue, as your're so obviously well informed on the social and cultural histories of these islands :rolleyes:

beakerjoe

Success in 70's/80's and 90's

/end thread

niallo27

Omackeral wrote: »

I dunno the correct answer but the last time I was in the pub for a United vs Liverpool game there were a load of 'Scouse B*stards' and 'Dirty Mancs' giving each other loads of verbals. I could have sworn they were just lads from my town but no, they seemed to be well and truly from from those cities. Uncanny resemblance to the locals though.

I read this a bit on this forum. I rarely see it happen in limerick. It's a bit of a myth that loads of people are it.

CSF

niallo27 wrote: »

I read this a bit on this forum. I rarely see it happen in limerick. It's a bit of a myth that loads of people are it.

Fairly common in Dublin. If you're at Dublin airport on a Saturday morning you are pretty likely to encounter it.

Madworld

Thought this one was pretty obvious? It's 100% because of our family connections. All those trips we took with our parents down the M62 to Middlesbrough. Those visits to the picturesque English landmarks of Stoke, Wigan and Bolton. Simply magical.

People have claimed that I'm only in it for the glory, but that's just not true. I've a deeper connection that non-Mancs just simply don't understand. Even if we were relegated to League 1 like Leeds, we definitely wouldn't turn into Man City supporters. Why? Because we know Wayne Rooney really appreciates our support, much like our Malaysian compatriots.

Man Utd is more than about winning our games every week. It's about our family heritage.

Omackeral

niallo27 wrote: »

I read this a bit on this forum. I rarely see it happen in limerick. It's a bit of a myth that loads of people are it.

I've seen it so much to the point I'll actively avoid going out when it's on. I went to the pub last year for this game and I will never go again. I witnessed:

- Lads calling each other 'Manc Scum' and 'Scouse W*nkers'. These are boys who grew up together in West Dublin.

- Chanting in Mancunian and Scouse accents at the telly and at each other

- A United fan decked out in that Green and Gold protest scarf against 'foreign' owners and his mates thinking he was a dedicated lad for doing so.

- The coup de grace, though, was one fella squaring up to the ref (TV Screen in reality) and his mate holding him back going ''just leave it man''.

These fellas are embarrasing beyond belief.

batistuta9

AgileMyth wrote: »

Footballs from the showgrounds used to end up in my garden from time to time.

fair enough, i'll take your word for it

what about everyone else in there though or at other LOI matches, do they live a stones throw from the ground or are they glory hunters following the most successful club in their general area?

Omackeral

batistuta9 wrote: »

fair enough, i'll take your word for it

what about everyone else in there though or at other LOI matches, do they live a stones throw from the ground or are they glory hunters following the most successful club in their general area?

I work in Phibsboro. Clock out at 7:40 and at the turnstile for 7:45. Probably a literal stone's throw (for an Olympian).

I'd say once the club has made in roads in your community i.e. has a presence like posters or school appearances and is a simple bus ride away. Then you're part of the catchment area. People enjoy watching senior football the world over, not necessarily just top tier either. Look at the Blue Sq Premier etc, some of their clubs have similar gates to our top ones and you can wager they probably dont win many honors either!

Zico

No one really cares.

That's the end of this story.

batistuta9

Omackeral wrote: »

I work in Phibsboro. Clock out at 7:40 and at the turnstile for 7:45. Probably a literal stone's throw (for an Olympian).

I'd say once the club has made in roads in your community i.e. has a presence like posters or school appearances and is a simple bus ride away. Then you're part of the catchment area. People enjoy watching senior football the world over, not necessarily just top tier either. Look at the Blue Sq Premier etc, some of their clubs have similar gates to our top ones and you can wager they probably dont win many honors either!

it's unfair to criticise irish people who support english clubs as being glory hunters just because they support english clubs.
that happens the world over people supporting the more successful club (the nevilles from bury supporting man u) it's not just an irish thing.

he's from sligo where there's at least 9 clubs. is everyone who doesn't live beside the showgrounds & doesn't support one of the others than sligo rovers a glory hunter & just 'following events and success' as he put it?
There are also a sizeable number of junior football clubs who play in the Sligo/Leitrim & District league from the town, the list includes Calry Bohemians, Cartron United, City United & St. John's FC who play in the Super League and Glenview Stars, MCR FC, Merville United & Swagman Wanderers who play in the Premier League. Football is the dominant and most popular sport in Sligo town.

if you want to criticise people for anything it shouldn't be for supposed 'glory hunting' it should be for not going to/supporting an irish team, that's why i was asking where did the english first thing come from

Zico

Zico wrote: »

No one really cares.

That's the end of this story.

They obviously do or there'd be no thread!

RichFTW

I'd say both tradition and success had the biggest part to play in people supporting both teams. When Liverpool played that friendly in Dublin recently, one of the panellists on MNS made the point that United used to sell out 40-45k friendly matches back in the 50's so the tradition of supporting the club has been here a while, before the success. I would imagine the same was the case for Liverpool with support then being handed down each generation.

As a kid, you want to watch and be associated with the successful clubs & great players. You don't grow up wanting to play up front for Norwich instead of United/Liverpool in the same way you don't want to dress up as Robin when Batman is an option. If you did, then you probably had some serious self esteem issues back then! If you had no connections through family or friends, you are naturally going to gravitate towards the team playing the best football at the time or winning the trophies.

A Primal Nut

Dublin Spur wrote: »

I'm a little surprised that it's simply down to them winning the most

I would have thought there's more criteria to consider than just winning

Most people choose a team when they are very young children and at that age all that matters is who is winning.

I started supporting Arsenal around the age of 6 or 7, Nobody else I knew supported them and they weren't very successful at the time. I just thought they had a funny name and thought it was funny to say Arse all the time. So trying to overanalyse why people support certain teams is a bit pointless.

It was around the time Man Utd won their first two league titles under Alex Ferguson and everyone else my age supported Man Utd because of it.

Calling people a nation of glory hunters when most people choose their team at such a young age is a bit harsh.

Omackeral

It boils down to a lack of proper footballing culture in this country. In nearly every other European nation, you grow up supporting your hometown team. That's not to shot at anyone, it's just generally the way it is. Some people are lucky enough to be brought to games as a youngster, others buck the general trend over here and get into week-in week-out supporting a team at a later date. I only got into it myself in my teens.

niallo27

Omackeral wrote: »

It boils down to a lack of proper footballing culture in this country. In nearly every other European nation, you grow up supporting your hometown team. That's not to shot at anyone, it's just generally the way it is. Some people are lucky enough to be brought to games as a youngster, others buck the general trend over here and get into week-in week-out supporting a team at a later date. I only got into it myself in my teens.

If the gaa didn't exist. I think we would have a hugely successful football league over here with clubs in every county.