Speeding Fine?

brencork

So, I got pinged by the gardaí going slightly too fast on the M3 just after the toll bridge.

I was pulled by an unmarked car. At the time I just apologised and accepted the scolding. He said they'd send out a fixed penalty notice and two points.

Thinking now though, he didn't have a speed gun...so can't possibly say how fast I was going. I was in control all the time and have upgraded brakes and tyres on the car.

Should I challenge the points if and when I get them?

Thanks!

Bio Mech

brencork wrote: »

I was in control all the time and have upgraded brakes and tyres on the car.

Should I challenge the points if and when I get them?

Thanks!

Oh god. :mad: not one of these again.

brencork

Huh??

I'm new to boards. I understood somebody might be able to help out?

Henry Ford III

Have you upgraded reactions too OP?

By all means challenge the speeding ticket, but you'll find the Garda would need a means of proving the alleged speed. He can't just guess that you were speeding.

dutopia

brencork wrote: »

So, I got pinged by the gardaí going slightly too fast on the M3 just after the toll bridge.

I was pulled by an unmarked car. At the time I just apologised and accepted the scolding. He said they'd send out a fixed penalty notice and two points.

Thinking now though, he didn't have a speed gun...so can't possibly say how fast I was going. I was in control all the time and have upgraded brakes and tyres on the car.

Should I challenge the points if and when I get them?

Thanks!

Accept the fine and points like a man.

djimi

You sure the camera wasnt further back up the road, and they were radioing on to the car to pull drivers that had passed the camera?

Cabaal

Challenge it, go on. Judge will have a good laugh when you claim you had upgraded tyres and brakes which meant you were ok.

SoapMcTavish

Garda had upgraded eyes .....

chris85

Upgraded brakes and tyres is a new one to me? Go for it OP, bring that one to court with you.

brencork

I wasn't going to suggest to the judge that tyres and brakes...just pointing out that I wasn't being reckless. I have brand new pads and calipers on and the brakes, if hit hard, would stop me in seconds.

But the point is, the gardaí have no proof that I was speeding. He never mentioned a camera and had no accurate reading of my speed (he suggested I was doing 180 but the speedo on the GTi read over 220).

In fairness, my reactions are pretty good and it was a dry road with excellent visibility.

I really don't need (another) 2 points for speeding, was just looking for advice really.

twinytwo

brencork wrote: »

So, I got pinged by the gardaí going slightly too fast on the M3 just after the toll bridge.

I was pulled by an unmarked car. At the time I just apologised and accepted the scolding. He said they'd send out a fixed penalty notice and two points.

Thinking now though, he didn't have a speed gun...so can't possibly say how fast I was going. I was in control all the time and have upgraded brakes and tyres on the car.

Should I challenge the points if and when I get them?

Thanks!

For the record what is slightly too fast?.. Chances are the guy with the gun radioed ahead to the car. Unless you can prove 100% that the guards are wrong, which you can't unless have some way of showing their gun wasn't calibrated correctly no judge in the country is gonna side against the cops

MarkR

brencork wrote: »

So, I got pinged by the gardaí going slightly too fast on the M3 just after the toll bridge.

I was pulled by an unmarked car. At the time I just apologised and accepted the scolding. He said they'd send out a fixed penalty notice and two points.

Thinking now though, he didn't have a speed gun...so can't possibly say how fast I was going. I was in control all the time and have upgraded brakes and tyres on the car.

Should I challenge the points if and when I get them?

Thanks!

Do you think if you have better brakes, you're allowed to drive faster? You do know that "go faster" stripes neither make you go faster, or allow you to go faster, safer?

tossy

What pads calipers and tyres have you got that can stop you from that speed in seconds?

leeroybrown

Even if the Garda didn't have any proof that you were speeding you've already admitted guilt when challenged about it. If it went to court the word of the Garda that you had admitted the offence at the time would be enough to convict you.

brencork

twinytwo wrote: »

F Unless you can prove 100% that the guards are wrong, which you can't unless have some way of showing their gun wasn't calibrated correctly no judge in the country is gonna side against the cops

Well, in fairness, the burden of proof is on the gardaí.


If the judges always side with the cops, well...we've seen where that leads us..(Bailey, the DoJ review, whistleblowers etc). Hopefully the gardaí aren't incapable of lying in most peoples eyes anymore.

twinytwo

brencork wrote: »

I wasn't going to suggest to the judge that tyres and brakes...just pointing out that I wasn't being reckless. I have brand new pads and calipers on and the brakes, if hit hard, would stop me in seconds.

But the point is, the gardaí have no proof that I was speeding. He never mentioned a camera and had no accurate reading of my speed (he suggested I was doing 180 but the speedo on the GTi read over 220).

In fairness, my reactions are pretty good and it was a dry road with excellent visibility.

I really don't need (another) 2 points for speeding, was just looking for advice really.

Let me get this right.. Your basic argument is that speed limits shouldn't apply to you because you have upgraded brakes and good reactions.

I'm sure many a person that has cause a crash/death on the countries road thought along the same line.

Its all well and good having nice tires, most people dont understand the physics behind a crash/losing the control of a car.

Henry Ford III

220? Take the points and run.

p.s. Was the Garda wearing a hat?

TGi666

If you live in Kildare and the fine comes through the door just pay it and let it go apparently I think Judge Nolan (I think) don't take too kindly to speeders and is fond of the ban hammer. Generally 160 is the limit for points after that usually ends up in a do not pass go straight to court although this is not set in stone.
I know its a pain in the hole but 2 points and €60/80 fine is better than a days lost wages and the risk of 4 points/ possible ban and roll of the dice fine in court.

leeroybrown

brencork wrote: »

Well, in fairness, the burden of proof is on the gardaí.


If the judges always side with the cops, well...we've seen where that leads us..(Bailey, the DoJ review, whistleblowers etc). Hopefully the gardaí aren't incapable of lying in most peoples eyes anymore.

Like it or not the justice system has to assume that the witness evidence of a Garda regarding commission of an offence supersedes the denial of the accused. On a matter such as a speeding offence the judge will accept the Garda's word that the accused admitted the offence as a mater of course unless contradictory proof is available.

leeroybrown

brencork wrote: »

I wasn't going to suggest to the judge that tyres and brakes...just pointing out that I wasn't being reckless. I have brand new pads and calipers on and the brakes, if hit hard, would stop me in seconds.

But the point is, the gardaí have no proof that I was speeding. He never mentioned a camera and had no accurate reading of my speed (he suggested I was doing 180 but the speedo on the GTi read over 220).

In fairness, my reactions are pretty good and it was a dry road with excellent visibility.

I really don't need (another) 2 points for speeding, was just looking for advice really.

If you were actually travelling at over 180km/h then just accept the fine/points and move on. A judge on a bad day might impose a dangerous driving charge and a ban if you're unlucky.

djimi

leeroybrown wrote: »

If you were actually travelling at over 180km/h then just accept the fine/points and move on. A judge on a bad day might impose a dangerous driving charge and a ban if you're unlucky.

Im calling shenanigans on this tbh. If a Garda saw a car doing 220km/h, even if they couldnt officially verify it, there isnt a hope in hell that the driver is getting away with a ticking off on the side of the road and a simple fine and 2 points.

Del2005

brencork wrote: »

Well, in fairness, the burden of proof is on the gardaí.

Your wrong on this. Motoring isn't a right it's a privilege that can be revoked at anytime. There is no requirement in our statues that require a Garda provide any proof that a driver was exceeding the posted limit to get a conviction.

But in all seriousness you where going 220km/h, Garda claims 180km/h, when you get the points letter pay it ASAP as if you challenge it you should be off the road.

brencork

Del2005 wrote: »

Your wrong on this. Motoring isn't a right it's a privilege that can be revoked at anytime. There is no requirement in our statues that require a Garda provide any proof that a driver was exceeding the posted limit to get a conviction.

But in all seriousness you where going 220km/h, Garda claims 180km/h, when you get the points letter pay it ASAP as if you challenge it you should be off the road.

*you're

Surely the burden of proof is on the gardaí and I'm innocent until proven guilty??

I accept I was driving fast, but it was safe and there was noone in any danger. I've a good car with upgraded safety features and a long history of safe driving. I've never had any accidents and have completed many driving courses and am experienced at high speeds (both on public roads and on tracks - I've been to the nurburgring in my own car, an opc at the time, on several occasions)

'tis a true story though. Luckily I was wearing a suit and got out of the car all apologetic. The Garda was an older lad, who was reasonable. I'd say had the younger, angry fella got involved, I would have been in big trouble.

tossy

Any info on the brakes and tyres you are running ?

brencork

twinytwo wrote: »

Let me get this right.. Your basic argument is that speed limits shouldn't apply to you because you have upgraded brakes and good reactions.

I never said this. Just wondered if anyone had some helpful advice so that I could avoid penalty points.

doubledown

brencork wrote: »

I never said this. Just wondered if anyone had some helpful advice so that I could avoid penalty points.

Frankly you deserve the penalty points. In fact anyone driving at the speed you claim you were deserves a one year ban, minumum, as far as I'm concerned, regardless of their experience or equipment.

leeroybrown

brencork wrote: »

Surely the burden of proof is on the gardaí and I'm innocent until proven guilty??

No. In speeding situations it's basically a case of his word that you were travelling in excess of the limit and yours that you were not. A judge will put more weight on the evidence of a Garda than on your denial. Furthermore, if the Garda states that you apologised and admitted guilt the judge will accept this as evidence of your guilt.

Seriously, you dodged a bullet here. If you really were travelling at the speed stated you're lucky there isn't a dangerous driving charge to defend and a driving ban.

brencork wrote: »

I never said this. Just wondered if anyone had some helpful advice so that I could avoid penalty points.

And the strong advice you're getting is that accepting two penalty points if offered is a huge win compared to risking having a judge on a bad day hearing a Garda state that you were travelling at 180km/h or more.

brencork

tossy wrote: »

Any info on the brakes and tyres you are running ?

My mate put them on for me they're upgraded calipers, pads and hoses. Cost about €2k in total. Think the brakes are ceramic? I don't really have interest in mechanical things, I work in finance so don't really have time, prefer to spend time driving rather than fixing the car.

Tyres are continentals. Some fancy, expensive type. My friend says they're the best. I'm inclidned to believe him cos he knows his stuff really.

dingding

The Garda was giving you a lucky break you were 100 KPH over the speed limit.

You should be banned for risking the lives of other road users.

If you had a blowout at that speed you could end up in the other carriageway, callipers are no good in a roll.

IMO the garda should have done you for dangerous driving, speeding and what ever else came to hand.

On second thoughts go to court and fight it, bring pictures of the tyres and callipers.

brencork

doubledown wrote: »

Frankly you deserve the penalty points. In fact anyone driving at the speed you claim you were deserves a one year ban, minumum, as far as I'm concerned, regardless of their experience or equipment.

That's a bit harsh

How do you know I wasn't on the way to an emergency?

Glad your not judge jury and executioner here!!

Edit: dingding, I've no intention of taking pictures of the car!

Although tbf, the gardaí were from the drug squad, not traffic corp (thank god) so they may not bother showing up in court

Henry Ford III

This has to be a wind up shirley?

doubledown

I think someone has been watching too much Days of Thunder...

"Special tyres..."

dingding

Going to an emergency only excuses the emergency services of the rules of the road.

The hint is in the name emergency services.


Bring this to court as well.

djimi

Henry Ford III wrote: »

This has to be a wind up shirley?

Of course its a wind up.

tossy

brencork wrote: »

My mate put them on for me they're upgraded calipers, pads and hoses. Cost about €2k in total. Think the brakes are ceramic? I don't really have interest in mechanical things, I work in finance so don't really have time, prefer to spend time driving rather than fixing the car.

Tyres are continentals. Some fancy, expensive type. My friend says they're the best. I'm inclidned to believe him cos he knows his stuff really.

I'm no judge, but if this was the court of brakes and tyres i wouldn't buy that lol very vague sir.

Henry Ford III

djimi wrote: »

Of course its a wind up.

Thanks Shirley

djimi

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Thanks Shirley

:pac:

doubledown

brencork wrote: »

That's a bit harsh

How do you know I wasn't on the way to an emergency?

Glad your not judge jury and executioner here!!

Edit: dingding, I've no intention of taking pictures of the car!

Although tbf, the gardaí were from the drug squad, not traffic corp (thank god) so they may not bother showing up in court

Were you on your way to an emergency? Or were you when you got your existing points?

I sincerely hope you're trolling as it scares me to think I'm sharing the road with people like you...

Paddy@CIRL

When are the kids due back in school again?

tossy

Paddy@CIRL wrote: »

When are the kids due back in school again?

It's about time someone thought of the children!!!

endacl

Paddy@CIRL wrote: »

When are the kids due back in school again?

Will they be driving themselves?

:eek:

Chimaera

Two ways the Garda would have a good indication of your speed here:

1. It was an unmarked traffic car with all the monitoring equipment that goes with that. If it was one of those, they know _exactly_ how fast you were going.


2. It was a regular unmarked car. They got an estimate of your speed from the speedometer in it while following you. If you were close enough to the speed limit to call this into question you could possibly challenge it in court as there are a few variables involved. If they're estimate is 180 km/h however, and you reckon you were close to 220 km/h, you haven't a hope on this one.

Regardless of how upgraded your brakes/suspension/tyres/etc are, the charge is exceeding the speed limit and the judge will just laugh at you while handing down 4 points and a fine of his choosing.

If you got a charge of dangerous driving, you might possibly have a chance on this one, but it depends on spending a lot of money on legal fees and getting a judge who's willing to listen to you. There was a case in the UK some years ago where a driver was acquitted of dangerous driving on the argument that he was driving within the capabilities of the vehicle and his own skill: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/303005.stm I believe they still did him for speeding later though.

brencork

doubledown wrote: »

Were you on your way to an emergency? Or were you when you got your existing points?

I sincerely hope you're trolling as it scares me to think I'm sharing the road with people like you...

Not trolling. Wasn't on way to emergency this time. Have been previously and had the use of a Garda escort. That was when I was still working as a doctor. (I initially trained in Emergency Medicine and did memberships in Anaesthesia and the FCEM. I worked extensively in prehostpital care and retrieval med in oz), I've left medicine now (mostly...on the register but not in paid employment as a doctor but offer voluntary services when needed...I currently work in finance where the money and t&C are much better and the work is a piece of piss tbf)

corktina

the Gard will just say that he saw you speeding , your word against his and the Judge will accept his version. he does not need proof

mackeire

brencork wrote: »

Not trolling. Wasn't on way to emergency this time. Have been previously and had the use of a Garda escort. That was when I was still working as a doctor. (I initially trained in Emergency Medicine and did memberships in Anaesthesia and the FCEM. I worked extensively in prehostpital care and retrieval med in oz), I've left medicine now (mostly...on the register but not in paid employment as a doctor but offer voluntary services when needed...I currently work in finance where the money and t&C are much better and the work is a piece of piss tbf)

You forgot to mention your supermodel girlfriend aswel

brencork

corktina wrote: »

the Gard will just say that he saw you speeding , your word against his and the Judge will accept his version. he does not need proof

Don't want to go off topic, but is that not what happened with Ian Bailey. Sure the gardai are corrupt in most cases. Look at the Donegal shenanigans, Boylan, GSOC, even all the way back to Fr Molloy! I really hope most judges don't see all gardaí as incoruptible paragons of honesty.

brencork

mackeire wrote: »

You forgot to mention your supermodel girlfriend aswel

Nope, I'm single tbf!

Don't see why you don't believe me tbh. Many people move from medicine to other fields and continue to be succesful. I was lucky as I could spin my EM experience as being someone who is able to think fast and accurately under pressure in addition to being able to participate and lead teams. This was very useful in my move to finance.

PLUG71

You got caught and got away lightly!

And you are a grammer nazi too

brencork

*grammar

djimi

corktina wrote: »

the Gard will just say that he saw you speeding , your word against his and the Judge will accept his version. he does not need proof

I find that a little hard to believe if Im honest. Speeding is not something that is quantifiable with the naked eye, so if a Garda says he thought I was speeding and I say sorry I was actually doing 117 in a 120 zone (or whatever) then the Gardas story cannot surely hold up in court?

PLUG71

brencork wrote: »

*grammar