Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

wes

mad muffin wrote: »

But I sure as he'll don't have to worry about any Zionist terror group blowing me up in a bus, train, plane, and so on.

Unless your a Palestinian kid playing football on beach..... Not that you care about Palestinians lives or anything.

Geomy

There's no excuse for hitting a UN school with a UN flag, twice I add !

Buzz Killington the third

The Hamas human shield myth is getting out of control. The UN use schools as shelters, Israel says Hamas have weapons there and subsequently target the schools and the excuse is "Hamas used them as human sheilds" and put the innocent deaths down as casulties of war. F*cking shocking.

KahBoom

mad muffin wrote: »

I don't know.

But I sure as he'll don't have to worry about any Zionist terror group blowing me up in a bus, train, plane, and so on.

Yea, instead just get blown up in your house, or in the school you're asleep/taking-shelter in - along with your kids, like earlier today...

Gringo180

mad muffin wrote: »

I don't know.

But I sure as he'll don't have to worry about any Zionist terror group blowing me up in a bus, train, plane, and so on.

You my friend disgust me! Have you no humanity?

JC01

user2011 wrote: »

What reason did he give them to ask for his passport/ID? Wearing a Palestine flag on the scarf? Palestine flag on his cap? Or saying the words of support for Palestine near Israeli kids?

True democracy at play :rolleyes:

To be fair iv seen far more brutal arrests outside nightclubs in town, and I'd go out on a limb and say in a country that is currently at war it's kinda common for law enforcement to want to know exactly who is around them, ie ask for I.D. To blankly refuse to show I.D to any police force anywhere in the world when your holding it in your hand is only ever gonna end one way.

Geomy

wretcheddomain wrote: »

The vast majority of Muslim Palestinians, if not all, are Sunni, including Hamas. However, about 7% of Palestinians are Christian.

Most of the violence of ISIS is perpetrated against Shia. ISIS are looking for a Sunni Caliphate void of Shia Muslims.

That's quite scary isn't it.

RustyNut

mad muffin wrote: »

I don't know.

But I sure as he'll don't have to worry about any Zionist terror group blowing me up in a bus, train, plane, and so on.

A UN school, hospital for the dissabled?

KahBoom

Gringo180 wrote: »

Sickening, know wonder the Americans are so hated in the middle east, there silence on this massacre will end up with more dead Americans unfortunately. How stupid can they be to not see there support of this terrorist state is costing them lives. Even the Egyptians can open up there borders to help them out but the coward General Cici is in the pockets of the zionists!

The Saudis could stop this at the drop of a hat if they cut there oil supply off to the yanks and Israelis.

Yep, support of this is part of what led to the September 11th attacks - Bin Laden was directly influenced by Israel's actions, and US support of that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivations_of_the_September_11_attacks#Support_of_Israel_by_United_States

Franticfrank

In terms of the Americans stepping in, seems like the majority of the population blame Hamas for this: http://www.statista.com/chart/2511/majority-of-americans-blame-hamas-for-current-violence/

end of the road

mad muffin wrote: »

That's his opinion. We all have opinions.

That's the beauty of living in a democracy. We can freely express our opinions.

but its not his opinion, its fact, and as he faught himself, he definitely knows whats going on

JC01

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

The Hamas human shield myth is getting out of control. The UN use schools as shelters, Israel says Hamas have weapons there and subsequently target the schools and the excuse is "Hamas used them as human sheilds" and put the innocent deaths down as casulties of war. F*cking shocking.

The UN admitted to finding a cache of rockets in one of its own schools a few days ago. Isreal have stated countless times that they will blow the crap out of abywhere thought to be storing weapons, no ifs, ands, or buts. Yet somehow it was allowed happen that rockets were found in a UN-run school? That is genuinely ****ing shocking

Gringo180

KahBoom wrote: »

Yep, support of this is part of what led to the September 11th attacks - Bin Laden was directly influenced by Israel's actions, and US support of that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivations_of_the_September_11_attacks#Support_of_Israel_by_United_States

Go onto Youtube and type in "Michael Schuer dump the Israelis" and listen to what he says in congress. He is spot on, well worth a listen if you have a spare 5 minutes.

Geomy

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

The Hamas human shield myth is getting out of control. The UN use schools as shelters, Israel says Hamas have weapons there and subsequently target the schools and the excuse is "Hamas used them as human sheilds" and put the innocent deaths down as casulties of war. F*cking shocking.

Absolutely shocking, the day's of the emperor's new clothes are upon us.

Most people are stocked with what's going on, but the people we think can do something about it don't seem to be helping out. .

hatrickpatrick

Gringo180 wrote: »

Sickening, know wonder the Americans are so hated in the middle east, there silence on this massacre will end up with more dead Americans unfortunately. How stupid can they be to not see there support of this terrorist state is costing them lives. Even the Egyptians can open up there borders to help them out but the coward General Cici is in the pockets of the zionists!

I'm not 100% sure whether AIPAC's influence stems from money or public support. If it stems from public support, then the tide may slowly be turning:

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/493377258506420224

The ADL are simply batsh!t insane. They most recently used a map of pro-Palestinian protests in the US as evidence of growing Anti-Semitism.

https://twitter.com/ADL_National/status/492720519284666369

They're an absolutely vile organization hellbent on shutting down all aspects of free speech with regard to Israel or Jews. Piss these people off and one is f*cked - I believe they were responsible for bringing down an almighty sh!tstorm against Tommy Tiernan over a racist joke a few years back. While I agree the joke was in poor taste, I can pretty much guarantee that it could have been directed against any other ethnic group in the world and it wouldn't have caused the level of fallout that it did.

The Saudis could stop this at the drop of a hat if they cut there oil supply off to the yanks and Israelis.

They'd have to be willing to sacrifice a whole pile of revenue on principle. Sadly, very few actors in the world today have such strong ideological conviction.

end of the road

mad muffin wrote: »

And I quote

yeah, a genuine and a good reason not to except it, however in 1967 israel decided they wanted more so they took it, and blackmailed america into helping them and supporting them

wes

JC01 wrote: »

The UN admitted to finding a cache of rockets in one of its own schools a few days ago.

From an empty school, and they then removed the rockets.

JC01 wrote: »

Isreal have stated countless times that they will blow the crap out of abywhere thought to be storing weapons, no ifs, ands, or buts. Yet somehow it was allowed happen that rockets were found in a UN-run school? That is genuinely ****ing shocking

UNRWA check each of there facilities to make sure no such rockets are present, and if found remove them. So any UNRWA facility has no weapons stored there. The IDF know this, but yet choose to deliberately target and murder civilians, despite the fact that UNRWA has when they have found rockets stored in any of the facilities removed them.

What we are seeing is blatant murder of civilians on the IDFs part, and yes who stored rockets in UN schools are also war criminals, but there is no evidence that it was Hamas did so.

user2011

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Many police apologists will refuse to even acknowledge this as a legitimate question, and this is not unique to the Israel/Palestine conflict. They seem to believe that all instructions / requests by members of the police are automatically legitimate and that any refusal to comply is automatically illegitimate. Sickening attitude if you ask me. Authority should always be questioned.

I love watching PINAC (photography is not a crime) videos. A group will video record buildings from the public sidewalk and see if the cops get called. They then see if the cops will uphold the law or break the law by requiring them to show ID just for videoing a building from a side walk (all under the guise of stopping terrorism).

You'd be surprised at how many times the law gets broken, again in a democracy :rolleyes:.

Buzz Killington the third

JC01 wrote: »

The UN admitted to finding a cache of rockets in one of its own schools a few days ago. Isreal have stated countless times that they will blow the crap out of abywhere thought to be storing weapons, no ifs, ands, or buts. Yet somehow it was allowed happen that rockets were found in a UN-run school? That is genuinely ****ing shocking

The school that was hit this morning had no weapons! Israel were told not to target the school!

Sierra Oscar

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

The Hamas human shield myth is getting out of control.

It makes me angry to hear the Israeli leadership waffling about 'human shields' to justify their blatant airstrikes on UN facilities housing civilian refugees.

It was official policy for decades whereby the Israeli Defence Forces would use children as actual human shields during combat operations in live warzones. There are plenty of documented examples whereby this happened, and the Israeli government admitted that the practice was employed thousands of times.

And they are still doing it. The Israeli government should shut up about human shields, they have absolutely no credibility in that area.





Amnesty International - Israeli soldiers leave Gaza homes in devastated condition

In most cases, the families had fled or were expelled by the soldiers. In some cases, however, the soldiers prevented the families from leaving, using them as "human shields".

That article is from 2009, and Amnesty International have reported that Israel used human shields during combat operations at least a dozen times between then and 2013.

hatrickpatrick

user2011 wrote: »

You'd be surprised at how many times the law gets broken, again in a democracy :rolleyes:.

Sadly, I really wouldn't. I'm very familiar with some of the types of issues that land on GSOC's desk on a daily basis, and it can be very disheartening sometimes. With regard to the US, the litany of police brutality videos from Occupy protests combined with the ongoing situation in which the cops regularly kill people and are not held accountable for explaining why, is ridiculously depressing. One recent case involved a kid with Schizophrenia having an episode, his parents called the cops for some support, first group of cops came and managed to subdue the guy and calm the whole situation guy, then another cop arrived from a different district, escalated the situation and then said something like "I don't have time for this" before shooting the kid dead.

Case in Fullerton a couple of years ago was caught on camera in which the cops repeatedly tasered a guy for several minutes after he had already been clearly subdued and was no longer a threat. He died later on in custody from multiple wounds sustained during this beating. Give a wild guess, how much jail times was served by the officers involved? :mad:

JC01

wes wrote: »

From an empty school, and they then removed the rockets.



UNRWA check each of there facilities to make sure no such rockets are present, and if found remove them. So any UNRWA facility has no weapons stored there. The IDF know this, but yet choose to deliberately target and murder civilians, despite the fact that UNRWA has when they have found rockets stored in any of the facilities removed them.

What we are seeing is blatant murder of civilians on the IDFs part, and yes who stored rockets in UN schools are also war criminals.

Your missing my point I think. I'm not for a second excusing what's happening, it's a horrific war which innocent people are bearing the brunt of no doubt.

My point was how could something like that be allowed to happen? It totally negates the whole "there targeting UNRWA schools"-hysteria, when you find weapons of war in one of these schools. Fine it was empty, disused, whatever the fact remains a facility the UNRWA designates as one of its own, was a location rockets wer stored, even after the IDF repeatedly saying this is exactly what there in Gaza to target.

paulmcshane

Judgement Day wrote: »

Apart from the scarcity of Israeli goods in our shops anyway, I don't favour this type of action - too reminiscent of what went on in Nazi Germany. What's needed, not just in this situation but in the Russia/Ukraine, North Korea etc. is for the leading figures (Benjamin Netanyahu, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh, Putin, Kim Jong-un etc.) to be informed that they will be held personally responsible for all actions undertaken by their forces.

What has Putin done that any US President hasn't done? The difference between them is one is involved in a situation that physically borders their own country, not some random middle eastern country that has natural resources/ strategic advantages and completely expendable population and future. Putin is in the haypenny league compared to western leaders, in particular the yanks.

You cannot compare Putin and Netanyahu.

Highflyer13

Gringo180 wrote: »

Does anybody think the Americans can step in or even the Saudis to stop this?? This is an out and out genocide and this Neytanyahu is a physchopath!

Judging by the amount of Americans in favour of the attack on Gaza they won't step in meaningfully anytime soon. Media has a huge proportion of the USA public completely brainwashed. BN is an absolute nutter in our time.

greenflash

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

That's an ironic statement coming from a supporter of Israel.

How the hell does my post make me a supporter of Israel?

Post reported

ChicagoJoe

As an American I am truly ashamed of the US's support of the mass murder of Palestinians daily, at this stage words are beyond me. I've just watched Kerry prostituting himself and defending his political career and his "unswerving support and loyalty" to Israel. Obama who claims to be a follower of Martin Luther King constantly reiterating the total support for Israel. Susan Rice yesterday addressing some Jewish assembly promising hundreds of $millions to Israel for their alleged "security", to mass murder Palestinians including hundreds of children.

No wonder the US has lost respect around the world and is now seen as the dog that the tail is wagging.

Gringo180

Highflyer13 wrote: »

Judging by the amount of Americans in favour of the attack on Gaza they won't step in meaningfully anytime soon. Media has a huge proportion of the USA public completely brainwashed. BN is an absolute nutter in our time.

But Obama knows only too well about the history of this conflict and he is smart enough to know that he should be siding with the Palestinians, but in saying that he cant really do anything as they tail wags the dog in American politics.

wes

JC01 wrote: »

Your missing my point I think. I'm not for a second excusing what's happening, it's a horrific war which innocent people are bearing the brunt of no doubt.

My point was how could something like that be allowed to happen? It totally negates the whole "there targeting UNRWA schools"-hysteria, when you find weapons of war in one of these schools. Fine it was empty, disused, whatever the fact remains a facility the UNRWA designates as one of its own, was a location rockets wer stored, even after the IDF repeatedly saying this is exactly what there in Gaza to target.

UNRWA, when they found the weapons removed them. During the summer, they probably don't check the facilities on a regular basis, due to it not being used. They have limited resources, and probably expected the various groups in Gaza to respect that schools are civilian building, but sadly there are groups who are far worse present in Gaza. All UNRWA can do is remove any weapons as there found.

Whoever put the weapons there are war criminals, and should be arrested and prosecuted to the fullest.

The IDF can say what they like, but attacking a school filled with civilians, that has been checked by UNRWA for weapons beforehand, and if found removed them, is still a war crime. All the IDF are doing is proving evidence of there guilt, that they are deliberately targeting civilians.

Lone Stone

I find it more frustrating that un & eu as a whole do nothing, trade embargo Israel that will do some damage and make them think about their own actions for once instead they just sit around getting paid and do nothing do they not remember why the eu was formed. Didn't the eu get the 2012 nobel peace prize for so many decades of peace since ww2. And yet no lessons learned, just stand by and do nothing while the world goes to **** again, israel's palestinian concentration camp and Russia annexing parts of the ukraine, /flips the table arghh, peace before profit.

dav3

JC01 wrote: »

...

It doesn't matter what way I read your posts, it still comes across as trying to justify the killing of innocent children.

I'm not sure what country you're from or if you've seen the news this morning.

Although RTE removed the reference to

Among the dead were a medic and an infant.

that they had earlier.

and added

The Israeli military, in an initial response, said militants near the UN facility had fired mortar bombs and Israeli forces had shot back.

for whatever reason.



But here is the latest news.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0730/633916-gaza-israel/

"I condemn in the strongest possible terms this serious violation of international law by Israeli forces," said UNRWA commissioner General Pierre Krahenbuhl.

ChicagoJoe

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

The school that was hit this morning had no weapons! Israel were told not to target the school!

By the UN itself. Thusual bullsh*t will be trotted out...."fog of war.....human shields....it was Hamas who hit the school". There's no end to it, words defy me to think that American tax dollars pays for this mass murder.

hatrickpatrick

greenflash wrote: »

How the hell does my post make me a supporter of Israel?

Post reported

You're not, but to be fair you do seem to be peddaling the Israeli justification for this current campaign which has been thoroughly debunked by now due to the sheer level of bombardment:

greenflash wrote:

Israel are using ordnance in an attempt to suppress or destroy Hamas

It's BS. This conflict is not about Hamas, it's about collective punishment of the entire population of Gaza, using very flimsy smoke and mirrors to try and dress it up as a legitimate military operation against legitimate military targets.

Did you watch any of the live stream two nights ago?

ChicagoJoe

ChicagoJoe wrote: »

As an American I am truly ashamed of the US's support of the mass murder of Palestinians daily, at this stage words are beyond me. I've just watched Kerry prostituting himself and defending his political career and his "unswerving support and loyalty" to Israel. Obama who claims to be a follower of Martin Luther King constantly reiterating the total support for Israel. Susan Rice yesterday addressing some Jewish assembly promising hundreds of $millions to Israel for their alleged "security", to mass murder Palestinians including hundreds of children.

No wonder the US has lost respect around the world and is now seen as the dog that the tail is wagging.

Are there many protests in the US about it?

hatrickpatrick

Lone Stone wrote: »

I find it more frustrating that un & eu as a whole do nothing, trade embargo Israel that will do some damage and make them think about their own actions for once instead they just sit around getting paid and do nothing do they not remember why the eu was formed. Didn't the eu get the 2012 nobel peace prize for so many decades of peace since ww2. And yet no lessons learned, just stand by and do nothing while the world goes to **** again, israel's palestinian concentration camp and Russia annexing parts of the ukraine, /flips the table arghh, peace before profit.

As I said earlier in the thread (or perhaps in the earlier thread, in fact) the EU and most of the West spinelessly grovels before US foreign policy. It's utterly shameful and pathetic.

Buzz Killington the third

greenflash wrote: »

How the hell does my post make me a supporter of Israel?

Post reported

For what? Easy with the trigger there!

RustyNut

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Are there many protests in the US about it?

Here is an example of the very subtle oppression of pro Palestinian protesters by the American authorities.

Tuisceanch

Surely it is possible to be a proud Israeli nationalist with a genuine concern for the safety and viability of their country and yet hold reservations about the conduct of it's forces and the policies of it's government. I'm Irish but I don't support the social policies of my government or the vile corruption of our politicians. I don't define being Irish as following every utterance of elected spokespersons with blind obedience and don't feel the urge to trot out revisionist history and pejorative terms to defend my position. I oppose fascism whenever it raises it's ugly head.

Highflyer13

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

As I said earlier in the thread (or perhaps in the earlier thread, in fact) the EU and most of the West spinelessly grovels before US foreign policy. It's utterly shameful and pathetic.

Yep I've said this before aswell. The EU needs to stand on its own two feet and distance itself from American foreign policy. Im thinking wtf is the point of the EU when it won't listen to its citizens but is only happy to impose all sorts of laws and restrictions on member states when it suits them. Absolutely zero leadership being shown. We have some of the most prosperous nations in the world and have shown ourselves to be weak and spinless.

Tell me why the f**k do we have to be the Americans lapdog?

hatrickpatrick

Highflyer13 wrote: »

Yep I've said this before aswell. The EU needs to stand on its own two feet and distance itself from American foreign policy. Im thinking wtf is the point of the EU when it won't listen to its citizens but is only happy to impose all sorts of laws and restrictions on member states when it suits them. Absolutely zero leadership being shown. We have some of the most prosperous nations in the world and have shown ourselves to be weak and spinless

Absolutely. And going further than that, individual EU nations need to make their own decisions on this issue. Nothing pissed me off more than when Ireland abstained from that resolution a few days ago for no reason other than "voting in line with the EU" - a common foreign policy was NOT part of the Lisbon deal, Ireland should be voting as the Irish people and Irish government desire and not how the wider EU desires.

A Primal Nut

I notice this went unreported in the Western media:

http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Report-Hamas-executes-alleged-spies-shoots-protesters-in-Gaza-369331

When Palestinians kill themselves it's ok seemingly.

wp_rathead

dav3 wrote: »

It doesn't matter what way I read your posts, it still comes across as trying to justify the killing of innocent children.

I'm not sure what country you're from or if you've seen the news this morning.

Although RTE removed the reference to



that they had earlier.

and added



for whatever reason.



But here is the latest news.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0730/633916-gaza-israel/

I noticed that alright it was edited...

jank

BeerWolf wrote: »

Israel's committing plain out genocide...

Eh no they are not but lets get hyperbole into the argument anyway sure...

wp_rathead

A Primal Nut wrote: »

I notice this went unreported in the Western media:

http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Report-Hamas-executes-alleged-spies-shoots-protesters-in-Gaza-369331

When Palestinians kill themselves it's ok seemingly.

If true that is disgusting !

RustyNut

jank wrote: »

Eh no they are not but lets get hyperbole into the argument anyway sure...

Eh yes they are but don't let the facts into the argument....

Incromental Genocide.

user2011

RustyNut wrote: »

Here is an example of the very subtle oppression of pro Palestinian protesters by the American authorities.

It's not about the protest it's about the context of the protest. Ie you support terrorists :rolleyes: f**king hell. well done to the woman for not getting over awed by the FBI showing up at her home.

hatrickpatrick

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Are there many protests in the US about it?

Check out my previous post where I talk about AIPAC and the ADL. The ADL, an extremely powerful and insidious lobby group which essentially lobbies for the first amendment not to apply to any criticism of Israel whatsoever, published a map of pro-Palestinian protests in the US and tagged it as evidence of growing "anti semitism". It's utterly insane stuff.

mad muffin

A Primal Nut wrote: »

I notice this went unreported in the Western media:

http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Report-Hamas-executes-alleged-spies-shoots-protesters-in-Gaza-369331

When Palestinians kill themselves it's ok seemingly.

I posted a the same story reported by a different news agency.

I was accused of reporting it as "Jewish news" and therefore propaganda or not to be trusted.

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Why quote "Jewish news"? Or is Israel indeed on a religious war?

end of the road

notfromhere wrote: »

Would u protest for hamas in Israel,fair play.That is no different to what the Gaurds done in Dublin, a few years ago

WTF?

hatrickpatrick

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Check out my previous post where I talk about AIPAC and the ADL. The ADL, an extremely powerful and insidious lobby group which essentially lobbies for the first amendment not to apply to any criticism of Israel whatsoever, published a map of pro-Palestinian protests in the US and tagged it as evidence of growing "anti semitism". It's utterly insane stuff.

Just to add to this, found the map:
https://twitter.com/ADL_National/status/492720519284666369

Gringo180

jank wrote: »

Eh no they are not but lets get hyperbole into the argument anyway sure...

Genocide; the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular nation or ethnic group.

How many civilians dead now? This is mass genocide and unless your stupid you well know it is.