Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

Son Of A Vidic

Nodin wrote: »

Lobbying mortars into Israel in such a manner isn't going get anyone anywhere. The odds are they are going to hit civillians, and its just not on.

I absolutely agree. Hamas might claim in wasn't intentional and yes they haven't got the sophisticated weaponry and targeting systems of the IDF. But that is no excuse, let them by all means engage with their military opponents. But any action that runs the risk of harming innocent civilians, is totally reprehensible. The death of the Israeli kid, like the deaths of the hundreds of Palestinian kids, is a terrible tragedy and should only ever be condemned.

Tuisceanch

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

The oil interests thing puzzles me though, what exactly interest does Israel serve in protecting oil concerns? I mean its not a major producer itself, it doesn't dominate any of the major routes in oil supply like say Egypt, Iran or the Gulf States. The middle eastern markets aren't exactly a major supplier for Israel's primary supporter, the United States. I mean if oil were the driving factor, you would expect the US to have a lot less interest and the EU to have far more, yet it's the opposite in reality. There's no shortage of reasons to believe the US is cynically intervening with Israel, but oil doesn't appear to be one of them.

The following article is from 1977 prior to the overthrow of the Shah.

Oil Imperialism and the US-Israel Relationship

http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/197703--.htm

A quote from the above article

"U.S. government support of Israel is more or less in accord with the American perception of Israel's strength. The stronger Israel becomes, the more it is able to assist the U.S. in maintaining control of the region, so the more the U.S. will support it. Though the pretense has always been that we're supporting Israel because it is in danger, the opposite would be a much more accurate statement. American support for Israel is contingent upon its strength and ability to aid in maintaining American domination of the Middle East. "

"American planners have regarded Israel as a barrier to Russian penetration, and have assumed that "the demise of Israel... likely would see increased Soviet influence ..."17 Israeli power protected the "monarchical regimes" of Jordan and Saudi Arabia from "a militarily strong Egypt" in the 1960s, thus securing American interests in the major" oil-producing regions.
The Ultimate Ally

The "realists" are wrong: America needs Israel now more than ever.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/04/25/the_ultimate_ally

"Israel is not, of course, situated in some geographical backwater, but at the junction of paramount American interests. Its prominence on the eastern Mediterranean littoral, at the nexus of North Africa and Southwest Asia, has enabled the United States to minimize its military deployments in the area. In the Persian Gulf, by contrast, the absence of a dependable and sturdy ally like Israel has impelled the United States to commit hundreds of thousands of troops and trillions of dollars. Secretary of State Alexander M. Haig's observation 30 years ago still resonates today: "Israel is the largest American aircraft carrier in the world that cannot be sunk, does not carry even one American soldier, and is located in a critical region for American national security."

For national security you can reasonably suggest securing oil interests as being one.

US discusses plan to pump fuel to its regional ally and solve energy
headache at a stroke Ed Vuillamy in Washington Sunday April 20, 2003

http://1426.blogspot.ie/2012/09/kirkuk-to-haifa-pipeline-reason-for-war.html

arybvtcw0eolkf

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I absolutely agree. Hamas might claim in wasn't intentional and yes they haven't got the sophisticated weaponry and targeting systems of the IDF. But that is no excuse, let them by all means engage with their military opponents. But any action that runs the risk of harming innocent civilians, is totally reprehensible. The death of the Israeli kid, like the deaths of the hundreds of Palestinian kids, is a terrible tragedy and should only ever be condemned.

Mortars are a very accurate indirect fire weapon.

Regardless whether its the IDF, Hamas or anyone else when you fire any kind of weapon towards a target, military or civilian you risk killing innocents and combatants alike... Even the cheap 'fire cracker' (as some people like to refer to Hamas rockets) rockets fired out of Gaza have no other purpose than to kill people.

chicken foot

Gutted to hear about this little boy, as a parent it is very, very hard to hear these stories without looking at your own and windering how those poor parents must feel!
The fear now is that this little boys death will result in that crazy mother****er Netanyahou going completely ape**** and killing multiple Palestinians in retribution!
Hamas gave civilian warnings two days ago for those in the area not to leave their shelters, I wonder will this tactic be deemed "suitable warning" by the Israelis? After all they deemed the five minute warning to be fair for the Palestinians!! I am wondering at what point and to what cost will that Nazi bastard decide that aggression just breeds aggression? Before anyone gets on the "but what about Hamas " argument, please just don't! We seen their "demands" at the last peace talks, they were of the most basic requirements, Israel said no so Israel, once again, is the reason another family is putting a tiny little body into the ground!

Son Of A Vidic

Aurelia Melted Surfer wrote: »

Mortars are a very accurate indirect fire weapon.

Mortar fire can be accurate when operated by a competent mortar team. But I'm guessing there was nothing at all accurate or competent about how the mortar was employed. Especially when you look at the amount of mortars that have been fired thus far and the very low casualty return.

Tuisceanch

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

The Holocaust certainly I think explains a lot of Western wariness in being too critical of Israel, especially Germany, but I think the Holocaust only provides half of the formative myth for Israel, the other half being the mass expulsion of Jews from the Arab world in 1948, the descendants of whom actually make up the majority of the Jewish population in Israel.

Actually that perspective was not what I was referring to. The systematic industrialized killing of the Jews and it's other victims looms large in the consciousness of anybody who contemplates the nature of human 'evil' and it's influence on the world around them. Consequently it is not unreasonable that they might be drawn to explore the plight of the Jewish people and the subsequent creation of the state of Israel. The fact that they might have grown up watching the terrible pictures of the Intifadas would only have further fueled that study. That is what I mean when I try to explain the rationale for why others might perceive that the attention that is brought to bear on Israel is a product of anti-semitism or that is out of proportion considering the atrocities elsewhere. I can't say I understand what they mean because many people have being drawn to comment on 'The Arab Spring' and the wars in Iraq and the rise of ISIS but it's difficult to know on what platform people should be driven to the streets to protest en masse. I spend a lot of time here posting links,which I read/watch and analyse beforehand and through that I educate myself a little more on the situation. I'm particularly interested in understanding the extent to which the mainstream media is failing in it's duty as a properly functioning media is essential to a healthy democracy. Of course when informing my opinion I have to be mindful of what is or is not sloppy scholarship or shoddy journalism. I'm not a professional in these fields and can't examine all relevant footnotes and access government archives. I have to extend a degree of trust to those whom I perceive as being sincere in their search for truth. But absolute truth,of course,is not really within anybody's capability of achieving and their is also the position of real politik. Are some populations entitled to promote their own interests at the expense of other populations and are they justified in suppressing their national interests so as to serve our own as a form of natural selection or greater force of arms? Given the complexity and effort required to be reasonably accurate in your opinion it is difficult to see why one would be expected to be an expert in every geo-political event that occurs. It is a familiar game that some people content themselves with rote learning of popular mantras thus mitigating the effort and time required to form something which is not totally influenced by another persons thinking and then turn around and lambast others for having the temerity to try and think for themselves and demand of them a standard which they don't even bother to emulate.Hypocritical,obnoxious and ironic in the extreme. (This is not directed at you I hope you understand)

bumper234

Aurelia Melted Surfer wrote: »

Mortars are a very accurate indirect fire weapon.

Sorry

But from someone who has fired mortars and also tank shells for a living i have to call BS on this statement.

Capt'n Midnight

czx wrote: »

Why bother? Nobody really cares.
I think it is worthwhile to consider Syria on this thread though. To put the outrage in perspective

While it's possible that discussions on a thread could affect public opinion and hence influence Israel what we say on a thread here won't affect what's happening in Syria, or DRC, Sudan or the drug wars in Mexico.

To suggest otherwise just doesn't make any sense, unless perhaps the intention was to derail this thread.

Egginacup

I've just seen that 2080 Palestinians have been killed since July.

Now that number is quite shocking, but we ought to think about the wounded also. I would imagine that for every death there must be at least 3 who are maimed or badly wounded, whether it be blinded, crippled, amputated, dismembered, burnt, etc,

So for the nearly 2100 Palestinians killed in this campaign, is it safe to assume that almost another 10,000 have been wounded in this effort?

I would say that that is probably a conservative guess. Be that as it may, 2100 Palestinians are now dead and 1000's more are in need of medical assistance. Is a blockade of medical supplies to help them beyond the remit of anybody?

Fiery mutant

bumper234 wrote: »

Sorry

But from someone who has fired mortars and also tank shells for a living i have to call BS on this statement.

I don't know what to make of this statement really. Some of your comments towards Makikomi regarding military matters stink of nothing but jealousy really.

eeepaulo

It would appear Hamas has backed a bid to join the international criminal court.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/hamas-kills-11-suspected-informers-israel-25080623

Awkward Badger

Egginacup wrote: »

I've just seen that 2080 Palestinians have been killed since July.

Now that number is quite shocking, but we ought to think about the wounded also. I would imagine that for every death there must be at least 3 who are maimed or badly wounded, whether it be blinded, crippled, amputated, dismembered, burnt, etc,

So for the nearly 2100 Palestinians killed in this campaign, is it safe to assume that almost another 10,000 have been wounded in this effort?

I would say that that is probably a conservative guess. Be that as it may, 2100 Palestinians are now dead and 1000's more are in need of medical assistance. Is a blockade of medical supplies to help them beyond the remit of anybody?

That seems to be pretty close to how its being reported anyway from what it looks like on the wiki page. Only wiki I know but it takes into account a lot of different reports including from the IDF.

Health Ministry of the Gaza Strip: 2,083 killed and 10,482 wounded
PCHR: 2,057 killed (1,581 civilians) and 10,271 wounded
UN OCHA: 2,042 killed (1,444 civilians)
TIC: 1,552 killed (480 civilians, 467 militants, 605 unknown)
IDF: 1,768[26]–2,000[27] killed (900 militants), 250 captured (159 identified as militants)

And its not just medical supplies that are an issue. Everything is going to be an issue after their infrastructure being demolished and a large amount of the population displaced.

As of 20 July 2014 hospitals in Gaza were ill-equipped and facing severe shortage of various categories of medicine, medical supplies, and fuel.[173] Egypt temporarily reopened the Rafah crossing with Gaza to allow medical supplies to enter and injured Palestinians to receive treatment in Egypt.[174] Also, due to the operation, prices of food, including fish and produce, rose dramatically.[175] A 21 July news report stated that over 83,000 Palestinians had taken shelter in U.N. facilities.[176]

According to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA), as of 31 July 2014 in the Gaza Strip, over 273,000 Palestinians have been displaced, of which 236,375 are taking shelter in 88 UNRWA schools (over eleven percent of the Gazan population). UNRWA has exhausted its capacity to absorb displaced persons, and overcrowding in shelters risks the outbreak of epidemics. 1.8 million people are affected by a halt or reduction of the water supply, 138 schools and 26 health facilities[59][177][178] have been damaged, 872 homes have been totally destroyed or severely damaged and homes of 5,005 families have been damaged but are still inhabitable. Throughout the Gaza Strip, people receive only 2 hours of electricity per day. The destruction of Gaza’s only power plant has had an immediate effect on the public health situation and reduced water and sanitation services, with hospitals becoming dependent on generators.

OCHA estimated that at least 373,000 children require psychosocial support.[20] "Intense overcrowding, compounded by the limited access of humanitarian staff to certain areas, is increasingly undermining the living conditions at many shelters and raising protection concerns. Water supply has been particularly challenging..."[179] More than 485,000 internally displaced persons are in need of emergency food assistance.[59]

The UN described the level of destruction as without precedent. Oxfam estimates the damage at $5 billion, in an economy with a GNP OF $6.6 billion.[180] Gaza City, home to 500,000, suffered damage to 20-25% of its housing. Beit Hanoun, with 70% of its housing stock damaged, is considered uninhabitable, with 30,000 residents there in need of accommodation. The only power station in the Strip was knocked out on 29 July, and the infrastructure of power transmission lines and sewage pumps and have been severely damaged, with a major sewage pipe catering to 500,000 badly damaged. Among the infrastructure targeted and destroyed by Israel's bombing campaign were 220 factories in various industrial zones, including a major carpentry enterprise, construction companies, a major biscuit factory, dairy farms and livestock, a candy manufacturer, the orange groves of Beit Hanoun, Gaza's largest mosques, and several TV stations. Farms, as a consequence of damage or the presence of unexploded ordnance, are often inaccessible, and the damage to agriculture is estimated at over $200 million. 10 out of 26 hospitals have been closed.

Spotted this article which is just talking about the overall impact on the children of Gaza.

More than 467 Palestinian children have died since July. That is more than the combined number of child fatalities in the two previous conflicts in Gaza.

According to the World Health Organization, more than 3,000 children have been injured, of which an estimated 1,000 will suffer from a lifelong disability. The United Nations estimates at least 373,000 children require direct and specialized psychosocial support. And, based on the total number of adults killed, there may be up to 1,500 children orphaned.

Gazan children’s right to an education has also been severely compromised with at least 25 schools reportedly damaged so severely that they can no longer be used. We speak to Pernille Ironside, chief of UNICEF’s Gaza field office.

"There isn’t a single family in Gaza who hasn’t experienced personally death, injury, the loss of their home, extensive damage, displacement," Ironside says. "The psychological toll that has on a people, it just cannot be overestimated, and especially on children."

bumper234

Fiery mutant wrote: »

I don't know what to make of this statement really. Some of your comments towards Makikomi regarding military matters stink of nothing but jealousy really.

Jealous of what exactly? As far as i am aware this is the only time i have ever replied to him on this (or any?) subject

Dan_Solo

bumper234 wrote: »

Jealous of what exactly?

Never been ordered to shell sleeping babies? Your life just isn't complete man.

eeepaulo

Apparently new mortars are accurate
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4506580,00.html
I doubt Hamas has access to these GPS guided monsters.


What international courses of redress do the palestinians actuall have?

http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/aug/18/hague-court-western-pressure-gaza-inquiry

This article suggests that israel and america have not signed up to the ICC

Son Of A Vidic

Egginacup wrote: »

I've just seen that 2080 Palestinians have been killed since July.

Current casualties stand at.....


Last updated: 07:00 GMT, 22 August 2014

Total killed: 2108
Total civilians killed: 1618
Total children killed: 500
Total women killed: 287
Total Hamas killed: 490

Total wounded: 10430(believed to be mostly civilians)
Total children wounded: 3160
Total women wounded: 2018
http://www.pchrgaza.org/portal/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10491:statistics-victims-of-the-israeli-offensive-on-gaza-since-08-july-2014&catid=145:in-focus

A disturbing 3660 Palestinian children have been killed or wounded so far. Then after yesterday's tragic death of an Israeli child, out comes psychopath Netanyahu vowing harsh retribution for the death. Really Bibi? Do you really need to add a few thousand more kids to your kill streak? Surely your bloodlust must be sated at this stage?

...__...

Even bipod type mortars with manual elevators are extremely accurate, Its a case of you see a building aim and fire your life expectancy is less than 60 seconds so its pretty much fire and run.

Fiolina

A 14 floor building containing 50 apartments in the Remal Quarter was destroyed by israel in the last hour. The occupants had 10 minute warning to vacate. (sorry I can't post link)

hju6

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/dundalk-fined-18k-for-palestine-flag-flown-against-hajduk-split-30530506.html

Dundalk soccer club fined €18,000 because a fan flew a Palestinian flag,

Rediculous.

bumper234

Fiolina wrote: »

A 14 floor building containing 50 apartments in the Remal Quarter was destroyed by israel in the last hour. The occupants had 10 minute warning to vacate. (sorry I can't post link)

http://news.sky.com/story/1323687/gaza-israeli-airstrike-hits-apartment-block

Witnesses say a 12-storey apartment block in Gaza City has collapsed after being hit by an Israeli airstrike.

Palestinian officials say Israeli aircraft fired two missiles at the building, sending a fireball into the sky and wounding 22 people, including 11 children.

Son Of A Vidic

bumper234 wrote: »

http://news.sky.com/story/1323687/gaza-israeli-airstrike-hits-apartment-block

The ongoing collective punishment being inflicted on the civilian population in Gaza. Is yet another flagrant breach of the The Geneva Convention. It has been cited in multiple protocols since the 19th century. The IDF breaches must be running into the hundreds, or possibly thousands of breaches at this stage.

whatstherush

bumper234 wrote: »

http://news.sky.com/story/1323687/gaza-israeli-airstrike-hits-apartment-block

Vid of it http://youtu.be/5s-X9z2jVrc

TommyKnocker

I was in at the GPO today with the IPSC handing out information leaflets regarding the BDS campaign and it was a very enlightening experience. While most of the folks were happy to take the leaflets and engage on the subject, I was quite surprised by the number of folks who gave us a wide berth and would not make eye contact. There were a few snide remarks from passers by and I had few Israeli people come up to me and question how I could be supporting Palestine and the Hamas Terrorists. On two occasions it was a couple of ladies, but after a few minutes of talking other family members dragged them away. But they were ok and just arguing their point about the rockets and the child that was killed yesterday. They would not listen to arguments about Israel being an occupying force or the disproportionate response. it was just mostly how I would like people firing rockets at me.

On one occasion I was approached by a fairly irate guy demanding how I could be supporting terrorism. He asked did I know an Israeli child was killed yesterday. When I asked about how he felt about the 500 Palestinian children who have died he said they were all scum and should all be killed an then he stormed off.

I witnessed what I assume was a youngish Israeli woman take a leaflet from one of the other IPSC volunteers, read a bit of it and start laughing. Then the man who was with her, possibly her husband, took the leaflet, looked at it and handed back to the volunteer. They then went over to the stall the IPSC had set up and started remonstrating with the folks there.

In my naivety it never entered my head that I would have to defend my position on the Palestine/Israel conflict with people from Israel who staunchly defended the actions of the Israeli government and the IDF.

It was the first time in my life ever handing out leaflets on the street and as I said, it was a very enlightening experience.

TommyKnocker

whatstherush wrote: »

Vid of it http://youtu.be/5s-X9z2jVrc

I would be really interested in hearing the military significance of that apartment block

getzls

TommyKnocker wrote: »

I would be really interested in hearing the military significance of that apartment block

Same as the schools, hospitals etc.

Report says the firing point of the mortar that killed the four year old Israeli child was situated beside a school.

Hamas know exactly what they are doing and glee in the response from Israel.

RustyNut

TommyKnocker wrote: »

I would be really interested in hearing the military significance of that apartment block

It was obviously a terrorist apartment block.

Well done to you for doing the work today, thats how apartheid was eventually finished off. Ordinary people like Mary Manning and her colleagues taking a stand against oppression. It will work again with israel, evil is as evil does.

bumper234

getzls wrote: »

Same as the schools, hospitals etc.

Report says the firing point of the mortar that killed the four year old Israeli child was situated beside a school.

Hamas know exactly what they are doing and glee in the response from Israel.

And has been proven to be utter bollox. I love how so many believe everything that the Israeli propaganda machine spouts out.

http://www.imemc.org/article/68933?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+PalestineNews+%28Palestine+News%29

Israel Retracts False Claim Regarding Alleged Hamas Rocket Base

Israeli officials retracted this morning their earlier claim on Friday that the rocket that killed a four-year-old child in Southern Israel was launched from an UNRWA school in the Gaza Strip. 

shedweller

bumper234 wrote: »

And has been proven to be utter bollox. I love how so many believe everything that the Israeli propaganda machine spouts out.

http://www.imemc.org/article/68933?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+PalestineNews+%28Palestine+News%29

Israel Retracts False Claim Regarding Alleged Hamas Rocket Base

****ing sleazy sneaky bastards. They have done this so many times and nobody has called them up on it.

hju6

TommyKnocker wrote: »

I would be really interested in hearing the military significance of that apartment block

Rockets were fired from the basement :pac::pac::eek:

getzls

A rocket is fired into Israel every ten minutes.
Come on folks, what response would you have?

getzls

bumper234 wrote: »

And has been proven to be utter bollox. I love how so many believe everything that the Israeli propaganda machine spouts out.

http://www.imemc.org/article/68933?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+PalestineNews+%28Palestine+News%29

Israel Retracts False Claim Regarding Alleged Hamas Rocket Base

And you being a terrorist supporter would believe that.

bumper234

getzls wrote: »

And you being a terrorist supporter would believe that.

Please explain how i am.a terrorist supporter?

user2011

getzls wrote: »

A rocket is fired into Israel every ten minutes.
Come on folks, what response would you have?

Give them a reason not to do it by..

Not getting your nickers in a twist when Hamas/Fatah agree to forming a unity government for the Palestinian people. Go to peace talks with the aim of getting peace for your people. Would be a good start!

Zebra3

getzls wrote: »

A rocket is fired into Israel every ten minutes.
Come on folks, what response would you have?

I'd question the policies that my government carries out in occupied Palestine.

Dan_Solo

getzls wrote: »

A rocket is fired into Israel every ten minutes.
Come on folks, what response would you have?

I'd stop trying to steal their country and they just might stop defending themselves.

Dan_Solo

getzls wrote: »

And you being a terrorist supporter would believe that.

Oh goodie, another pro-Zionist to laugh at when he can't answer the question: what is your definition of terrorist that doesn't cover the IDF just as well as Hamas?

A Dub in Glasgo

getzls wrote: »

Come on folks, what response would you have?

Kill every woman and child in Gaza?

karma_

getzls wrote: »

And you being a terrorist supporter would believe that.

You need to take a long hard look in the mirror fella.

hju6

getzls wrote: »

A rocket is fired into Israel every ten minutes.
Come on folks, what response would you have?

Build higher walls and increase the Navy presence and then exterminate the 'catch'
Then build settlements and ignore every moral in the world

Capt'n Midnight

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

The ongoing collective punishment being inflicted on the civilian population in Gaza. Is yet another flagrant breach of the The Geneva Convention. It has been cited in multiple protocols since the 19th century. The IDF breaches must be running into the hundreds, or possibly thousands of breaches at this stage.

Forget the 19th century

Going back 3,700 years we have written codes that limit punishments to "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"

old_aussie

eeepaulo wrote: »

It would appear Hamas has backed a bid to join the international criminal court.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/hamas-kills-11-suspected-informers-israel-25080623

hamas admits kidnapping and killing three Israeli teens

http://www.npr.org/2014/08/22/342318367/hamas-finally-admits-to-kidnapping-and-killing-israeli-teens

hamas kill 18 Suspected Informants

https://news.vice.com/article/hamas-kills-18-suspected-informants-a-day-after-israel-killed-three-hamas-leaders


and they want to join the International Criminal Court(ICC)

Nearly choked on my egg and bacon roll when I read they wanted to join the ICC. oh the irony

user2011

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/more-190-hollywood-notables-sign-727221

Actors Kelsey Grammer, Sarah Silverman, Minnie Driver, Sylvester Stallone, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Seth Rogen, Josh Charles and Tony Goldwyn, showrunners Aaron Sorkin, Diane English, Mayim Bialik, Doug Ellin and Greg Berlanti, directors Ivan Reitman and William Friedkin, producers Avi Arad, Scooter Braun, Jerry Weintraub, Avi Lerner, execs Ryan Kavaunagh, Sherry Lansing and Amy Pascal and mogul Haim Saban are just a few of the names that appear on the statement.

"While we stand firm in our commitment to peace and justice, we must also stand firm against ideologies of hatred and genocide which are reflected in Hamas' charter, Article 7 of which reads, 'There is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!' The son of a Hamas founder has also commented about the true nature of Hamas," the statement, headlined "Commitment to Justice and Peace," reads.

"Hamas cannot be allowed to rain rockets on Israeli cities, nor can it be allowed to hold its own people hostage. Hospitals are for healing, not for hiding weapons. Schools are for learning, not for launching missiles. Children are our hope, not our human shields," it added.

http://www.creativecommunityforpeace.com/justice/

Peace love and justice for Israels name being besmirched during this time of conflict.

user2011

old_aussie wrote: »

hamas admits kidnapping and killing three Israeli teens

http://www.npr.org/2014/08/22/342318367/hamas-finally-admits-to-kidnapping-and-killing-israeli-teens

hamas kill 18 Suspected Informants

https://news.vice.com/article/hamas-kills-18-suspected-informants-a-day-after-israel-killed-three-hamas-leaders


and they want to join the International Criminal Court(ICC)

Nearly choked on my egg and bacon roll when I read they wanted to join the ICC. oh the irony

Hugh Lovatt, Israel and Palestine coordinator at the European Council on Foreign Relations, said that while al-Arouri was a significant Hamas figure – serving as the group's most prominent representative in Turkey – the former militant could have an ulterior motive for making his claim.

"Given the timing I would be very suspicious about his claim. I still don't believe Hamas as an organisation and its upper echelons sanctioned the kidnappings – something that Israeli intelligence also believes," he said.

Lovatt said that al-Arouri may be trying to claim credit for the actions of others in an attempt to demonstrate his own continued sway in the West Bank and Hamas's ability to hit Israel after failing to secure significant concessions after six weeks of violence in Gaza.

"A second, more remote possibility, is that al-Arouri is telling the truth and that he has operated on his own initiative – a development with very worrying repercussions as it would imply a serious power struggle and splintering within Hamas," he said.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/21/hamas-kidnapping-three-israeli-teenagers-saleh-al-arouri-qassam-brigades

shedweller

Not sure if already covered here:
http://www.eiilir.eu/politics-strategies/topics/actual-topics/113-israel-is-using-dime-shrapnel-bombs-in-gaza-against-geneva-rules

If confirmed true then our upper echelons of leadership and law need to have their heads examined.

Tuisceanch

Holocaust survivors condemn Israel for 'Gaza massacre,' call for boycott


http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.612072

"…we are disgusted and outraged by Elie Wiesel’s abuse of our history in these pages to justify the unjustifiable: Israel’s wholesale effort to destroy Gaza and the murder of more than 2,000 Palestinians, including many hundreds of children. Nothing can justify bombing UN shelters, homes, hospitals and universities. Nothing can justify depriving people of electricity and water."

Full text of letter:
"Jewish survivors and descendants of survivors and victims of Nazi genocide unequivocally condemn the massacre of Palestinians in Gaza
"As Jewish survivors and descendants of survivors and victims of the Nazi genocide we unequivocally condemn the massacre of Palestinians in Gaza and the ongoing occupation and colonization of historic Palestine. We further condemn the United States for providing Israel with the funding to carry out the attack, and Western states more generally for using their diplomatic muscle to protect Israel from condemnation. Genocide begins with the silence of the world.
"We are alarmed by the extreme, racist dehumanization of Palestinians in Israeli society, which has reached a fever-pitch. In Israel, politicians and pundits in The Times of Israel and The Jerusalem Post have called openly for genocide of Palestinians and right-wing Israelis are adopting Neo-Nazi insignia.
"Furthermore, we are disgusted and outraged by Elie Wiesel’s abuse of our history in these pages to justify the unjustifiable: Israel’s wholesale effort to destroy Gaza and the murder of more than 2,000 Palestinians, including many hundreds of children. Nothing can justify bombing UN shelters, homes, hospitals and universities. Nothing can justify depriving people of electricity and water.
"We must raise our collective voices and use our collective power to bring about an end to all forms of racism, including the ongoing genocide of Palestinian people. We call for an immediate end to the siege against and blockade of Gaza. We call for the full economic, cultural and academic boycott of Israel. “Never again” must mean NEVER AGAIN FOR ANYONE!"

RustyNut

old_aussie wrote: »

hamas admits kidnapping and killing three Israeli teens

http://www.npr.org/2014/08/22/342318367/hamas-finally-admits-to-kidnapping-and-killing-israeli-teens

hamas kill 18 Suspected Informants

https://news.vice.com/article/hamas-kills-18-suspected-informants-a-day-after-israel-killed-three-hamas-leaders


and they want to join the International Criminal Court(ICC)

Nearly choked on my egg and bacon roll when I read they wanted to join the ICC. oh the irony

Do you not think both sides should be investigated for war crimes and those found guilty brought to justice?

Dan_Solo

I want to know what Samoan plumbers think of the Israeli assault on Gaza. Their opinion is about as important as that of Hollywood actors.

brimal

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I want to know what Samoan plumbers think of the Israeli assault on Gaza. Their opinion is about as important as that of Hollywood actors.

What a very odd statement, please explain.

Dan_Solo

brimal wrote: »

What a very odd statement, please explain.

Press releases about this signed by Hollywood actors. You hadn't noticed them?

Capt'n Midnight

old_aussie wrote: »

hamas kill 18 Suspected Informants

You could report it as Hamas commit nearly 1% of the extra-judicial killings that Israel has. And note no women or children were killed.

Even compared to Hamas the IDF don't look good do they ?



I've posted before about the Roman punishment of Decimation and how it was meant to dehumanise and brutalise the legions. You destroy the infrastructure of a country and take out parts of the government , slaughter a couple of thousand people and then expect private feuds to not re-surface ?