Request to bring laptop on annual leave, my rights?

TimeToShine

tinkerbell wrote: »

Telling you to bring a laptop while on annual leave is taking the piss. It's one thing taking a Blackberry on holidays (which I also don't agree with but at least it's small and portable) but a laptop - hell no. There has to be some employment law against that. If not, I'd have no problem telling him that I would not be bringing work on holidays with me, especially on honeymoon.

I'd also start looking for another job.

Talk about throwing your toys out of the pram. Why doesn't he just bring the laptop home and leave it there? "I had no access to Wi-Fi" - problem solved.

drumswan

TimeToShine wrote: »

Talk about throwing your toys out of the pram. Why doesn't he just bring the laptop home and leave it there? "I had no access to Wi-Fi" - problem solved.

And if the company decides to supply a 3g dongle?

How about instead of taking the passive aggressive/lying approach, OP has a frank discussion with his boss to set boundaries. Thats the professional approach.

TimeToShine

drumswan wrote: »

And if the company decides to supply a 3g dongle?

How about instead of taking the passive aggressive/lying approach, OP has a frank discussion with his boss to set boundaries. Thats the professional approach.

They won't, but if you think this is worth leaving a job over you're crazy. I agree with you in that he has every right to have a discussion with his boss but telling him to start looking for another job is overkill.

Squatman

TimeToShine wrote: »

They won't, but if you think this is worth leaving a job over you're crazy. I agree with you in that he has every right to have a discussion with his boss but telling him to start looking for another job is overkill.

Might not be. Having a job isnt the be all and end all of happiness.

OP given the drawbacks mentioned above, what are the perks of your job?
How many hours a weeks do you work, how senior are you, and how much more above the industrial average are you being paid?

calendarqueen

I think it is probably worth someone having a chat with this person and letting him know that this is not acceptable practice in Ireland and that his sending such an e-mail could be in breach of a host of employment laws and he that really, its probably not necessary in the circumstances. I would suggest the most senior person in the Irish team is best placed to do this.

Larbre34

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Not a recommended approach if your manager is based in a Middle East location.

I wouldn't be changing my culture for anyone else, if he frowns upon the way things are done in Ireland then its his problem, not the Irish staff.

This whole globalisation of corporations and communications has brought on huge negative effects for ordinary staff. My brother-in-law is in the far east and has to be available in the middle of the night twice a week to listen in on some conference call of his executive in London talking bull5h17 to the rest of the world, meaning he has poor quality rest two nights of his working week.

Other relatives in America sit in their offices 60+ hours a week just to be seen to be there and get about 12 days of leave at middle to senior level.

Workers in these countries scoff at the Irish who work hard and play hard, putting in the hours when need and enjoying life when not. Yet we should remind them of our growth rates and productivity and reflect it back on them that maybe their model of working is the wrong one.

Laptop on holidays? Show me the money, or not on your life.

Maximus Alexander

Where I would I'd normally be happy to take a call on an urgent issue if I was on annual leave, but that's primarily because I know I'd only be contacted as a last resort. It happens from time to time, but it's usually something that I can give direction on rather than being asked to do any actual work.

If it was expected that I log on via laptop as a matter of course during leave, I wouldn't be happy about that at all. I'm not sure if you're protected by law or not, but if that's the culture of the company and you're not happy about it, I'd strongly consider looking for another job. Most places aren't like that. At all.

musicfan1ie

Hi OP,

You could just say no or you could agree to their request. But, caveat that you're holidays are busy - 3/4 days touring with a company, hiking some trails/mountains, camping with no wifi, off to a family wedding/celebration etc. so your "free" time to check emails is limited. But, obviously, you will try your best!!

They'll get the hint that you're busy in time, without having a showdown. Maybe as a token gesture after about 4/5 days respond to some emails to show that you checked your emails.

So in future, just make sure they know about your hectic holidays and you could even joke that you came back to work for a break!!

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Mrs OBumble

Larbre34 wrote: »

This whole globalisation of corporations and communications has brought on huge negative effects for ordinary staff.

On the other hand, this is the first generation of Irish people who have been able to work overseas while still living in their own country.

Yes, this comes at a price. But would you really rather have emigrated?

RebelButtMunch

Arrange to call your boss on day 1 of your vacation to verify connectivity. Then he can call you in an emergency otherwise leave the laptop off.

Boskowski

Totally out of order IMO. A day where I'm checkin my emails is not a holiday. What if something comes up? Am I expected to be sober and ready for action at all times too then? When you think it through right to the end it's totally ridiculous and I wouldn't accept it. Period. Not unless I'm getting paid upwards of 120k anyway.

The deal is I'm selling you some of my time and brainpower. I'm not selling you my life.

listermint

Hi OP.

Do you have a work phone with email access?

If not request that.

leave the laptop at home. I never bring my work laptop if i have prearranged holidays. But i am however contactable on the phone and check the emails every now and then.

Laptop however no way!.


I wouldnt bother responding to him tbh if you have the phone. Just leave the laptop at home. Its ridiculous to set that sort of expectation on somebody.

JDxtra

Checking email on holidays will have you thinking about work. Defeats the purpose of the holiday in my opinion.

Stone Deaf 4evr

The new Ikea ad puts it brilliantly. something along the lines of "checking your email in bed, is like having the boss in the room with you"

Theres more to life than work. that being said, I wouldnt have a meltdown if I got a call out of the blue on my private phone in the event of an emergency, as I know it'd literally be just that. expecting you to take a laptop implies that you should be compiling reports or something.

InReality

So what happens after you check your email ? What can you do when your on holidays ? Would you be expected to reply or do some work on an issue?
If they have a way of contacting you in an emergency that should be enough.
My bottom line would be that I wouldn't check email on holiday - It would not be a break at all for me..

Is the guy who told you your direct boss ?
Ideally you'd need to have a frank person to person with your direct boss about their expectations

grumpydwarf

I realised it was time to change jobs when I got screamed at on the phone during an 'intimate exam'.

As another poster has said, your employer has purchased your expertise and SOME of your time - they didn't buy your life. However it's a good idea to have another opportunity in the pipeline in case they play games when you suggest they should be more reasonable.

Dyr

Pretty sure this would breach the two week holiday rule, which is why this companies HR dept won't issue a diktat like that. Whether you want to comply with a request that breaches employment law is up to you. Are you happy to be on call 24 hours for the rest of your time with this lot?

Lainey_b01

Hi all, thanks for all the comments, very aware need to thread carefully on this from career progression point of view. Won't be making formal complaints externally. I'm certainly not giving up job because of one persons unreasonable request.

I'm certainly not getting paid enough to be expected to log in over holidays. That's the killer for me, if it's an emergency fine but the fact that it's expected that I would be logging on that grates me. There is no way I'm going to suggest work phone, that's would mean I'd be contactable 24/7 all days of year, at least the laptop can't come to the beach with me on my honeymoon!

Person who issues the communication is in Dublin next week so have decided to have an chat face to face on the issue. Sounding out colleagues and higher level management in interim.

Again thanks for the comments.

Ps - since when is Lainey a dude! LoL

CatFromHue

Would a laptop, and so a laptop bag, not be another checked in bag you have to pay for?

Stheno

CatFromHue wrote: »

Would a laptop, and so a laptop bag, not be another checked in bag you have to pay for?

Never check a laptop onto a plane, risk of theft is fairly high.

A lot of companies will have this in their security policies ime

CarrickMcJoe

Can you not just let the battery go dead in the airport and they will post it back to your company. At least you tried.

CatFromHue

Stheno wrote: »

Never check a laptop onto a plane, risk of theft is fairly high.

A lot of companies will have this in their security policies ime

So what if you want to bring your own laptop as well?

Are you allowed bring two laptops on the plane with you?

Stheno

CatFromHue wrote: »

So what if you want to bring your own laptop as well?

Are you allowed bring two laptops on the plane with you?

Yeah, I've done it before, taken laptops x 2 and tablet in onboard luggage

wexie

CatFromHue wrote: »

So what if you want to bring your own laptop as well? Are you allowed bring two laptops on the plane with you?

No restrictions on the amount of laptops you can bring other than weight. I brought 8 once*, 4 in carry on and 4 checked in.

*don't ask

InReality wrote: »

So what happens after you check your email ? What can you do when your on holidays ?

If you're a remote worker (and it sounds like Lainey is) then just having your laptop and connectivity means you can do the same things you can do from the (home) office, logon to VPN and you're on the corporate network.

Tis the miracle of modern technology, a mixed blessing for sure

Stheno

wexie wrote: »

If you're a remote worker (and it sounds like Lainey is) then just having your laptop and connectivity means you can do the same things you can do from the (home) office, logon to VPN and you're on the corporate network.

Tis the miracle of modern technology, a mixed blessing for sure

We have flex working in our place so all we need is wifi for calls/emails/network access.

When on work time, it is indeed a miracle, when not, tis a pain in the hole if one is required to respond, that's rare though.

one thing about my current employer, they seriously respect leave time, and encourage us to make sure we take decent breaks.

It's almost unheard of for someone to be contacted when on vacation, but they put serious work in before hand to make sure the person covering knows everything going on, to the point where they have a handover template to be completed a week in advance.

It works. The person on leave goes off with no worries, the person taking over has a week to ask questions and get familiar.

I've been both, and it's a very simple, but very cool system.

Morte

Stheno wrote: »

Never check a laptop onto a plane, risk of theft is fairly high.

A lot of companies will have this in their security policies ime

This would really concern me from the company's point of view. If you're actually going on holidays (not staying at home) there's a massive risk of the laptop being stolen. Aside from the cost there would presumably be a lot of confidential information on it.

Stheno

Morte wrote: »

This would really concern me from the company's point of view. If you're actually going on holidays (not staying at home) there's a massive risk of the laptop being stolen. Aside from the cost there would presumably be a lot of confidential information on it.

That would depend on how good the company are in terms of IT security.

To get onto my work laptop, I've to enter a startup code, and then my login details, and I'm restricted in what I can save locally

I know of one company who work regularly in China. Staff going there get a virgin laptop with very restricted rights, and it's wiped on return.

guppy

In my husbands last work place, he was always working. He did get paid overtime, but the money wasn't worth it at all as his mental health was suffering badly. It affected our relationship, his relationship with his son and ours was not a happy home.

He moved to a job where he earns less (due to no overtime) but he works less and is far, far happier for it.

Work is important, but not at any cost. Starting married life by working on honeymoon is a recipe for disaster.

OP, I hope your talk with the memo composer goes well, I applaud you for doing the right thing for you.

granturismo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Taking it ... meh.

But checked? That means spending time actually doing work. Did he say how much time? I'm pretty sure that would be seen as a health-and-safety breach for Irish-based staff.
...

There is no 'health and safety' legislation breached in this scenario. Possibly the Working Time Act 1997.