Women's World Cup 2014

sullivlo

Strazdas wrote: »

Clearly to beat a big team like England, they will need to be near the level they were against NZ, but I would definitely think the NZ team Ireland beat are a considerably stronger team than England.....the English were very fortunate to draw against Canada yesterday.

Not the case unfortunately. Canada are a great team. The English team are on par, if not slightly better, than NZ.

Ireland do have the winning of the game though. It will be very interesting to see who goose chooses. Most of the team picks itself but some of the positions are rife with competition. Particularly the back row.

I reckon he'll go with:

Coghlan
?
Egan
Spence
Reilly
?
Molloy
O'Brien
Rosser
Stapleton
Miller
? (This is a real question - bish bash bosh of Murphy, or creative with Davitt)
Cantwell
?
Briggs (kicker)

vienne86

sullivlo wrote: »

Not the case unfortunately. Canada are a great team. The English team are on par, if not slightly better, than NZ.

Ireland do have the winning of the game though. It will be very interesting to see who goose chooses. Most of the team picks itself but some of the positions are rife with competition. Particularly the back row.

I reckon he'll go with:

Coghlan
?
Egan
Spence
Reilly
?
Molloy
O'Brien
Rosser
Stapleton
Miller
? (This is a real question - bish bash bosh of Murphy, or creative with Davitt)
Cantwell
?
Briggs (kicker)

At least we don't seem to have any major injury concerns.

iwantmydinner

vienne86 wrote: »

At least we don't seem to have any major injury concerns.

I was thinking that as well! The girls must be in great shape to have gotten through the three games without injuries. Good and strong!

wp_rathead

iwantmydinner wrote: »

I was thinking that as well! The girls must be in great shape to have gotten through the three games without injuries. Good and strong!

The Sky commentory was praising the Strength and Conditioning of the Irish team alrigjt

Strazdas

sullivlo wrote: »

Not the case unfortunately. Canada are a great team. The English team are on par, if not slightly better, than NZ.

New Zealand were odds on favourite to win the tournament and Canada were fifth favourite at about 20/1. What makes you think Canada are better than NZ....simply the way the results / performances have panned out?

mr_edge_to_you

I reckon he'll go with:

Coghlan
?
Egan
Spence
Reilly
?
Molloy
O'Brien
Rosser
Stapleton
Miller
? (This is a real question - bish bash bosh of Murphy, or creative with Davitt)
Cantwell
HORAN
Briggs (kicker)

Zuffer

Strazdas wrote: »

New Zealand were odds on favourite to win the tournament and Canada were fifth favourite at about 20/1. What makes you think Canada are better than NZ....simply the way the results / performances have panned out?

No one said Canada are better than New Zealand. If someone thinks England are better than New Zealand, it does not follow that they think Canada are better than New Zealand just because they got a draw with England. Worse teams beat ( or draw with) better teams every day in sport.

Pre tournament odds can be flawed. With the women playing less games and having less exposure than the mens game, and with comparisons between north and south hemispheres being harder because they play each other so infrequently, there is going to be a large margin for error.

I think the England game is a tough ask. I saw the New Zealand game, and it was a very good performance. I thought Ireland were comfortablely the better team. But I also saw the England game in the Six Nations, which England won, and were deserved winners. So our hope is that something has changed since then. That Ireland, through preparation, game plan, conditioning, or some other factor, will be a better team than they were that day in Twickenham. We did see some evidence of that in the NZ game, which I think is a big part of the reason for optimism.

Strazdas

Zuffer wrote: »

No one said Canada are better than New Zealand. If someone thinks England are better than New Zealand, it does not follow that they think Canada are better than New Zealand just because they got a draw with England. Worse teams beat ( or draw with) better teams every day in sport.

Pre tournament odds can be flawed. With the women playing less games and having less exposure than the mens game, and with comparisons between north and south hemispheres being harder because they play each other so infrequently, there is going to be a large margin for error.

I think the England game is a tough ask. I saw the New Zealand game, and it was a very good performance. I thought Ireland were comfortablely the better team. But I also saw the England game in the Six Nations, which England won, and were deserved winners. So our hope is that something has changed since then. That Ireland, through preparation, game plan, conditioning, or some other factor, will be a better team than they were that day in Twickenham. We did see some evidence of that in the NZ game, which I think is a big part of the reason for optimism.

We can't be sure how good or bad NZ played against Ireland, but the fact that they annihilated Kazakhstan in a 12 try rout and hammered a strong US team suggests that must have been an exceptionally good performance by Ireland to beat them and limit them to one try.

I'd agree that England are probably worthy favourites in the semi but you'd certainly have to think Ireland are the form team.....if England had beaten NZ and Ireland had scraped to a rather fortunate draw with Canada, most people would be tipping the English to win.

Thud

They only lost by a converted try to England who had a huge home advantage/crowd in Twickenham, i think we can easily turn that around and this team is fitter and better drilled than back then, that saidEngland should be too.

Think he'll prob use both Murphy and Davitt again, think Baxter will hold her spot, Jackie Shiels on bench

sullivlo

Thud wrote: »

They only lost by a converted try to England who had a huge home advantage/crowd in Twickenham, i think we can easily turn that around and this team is fitter and better drilled than back then, that saidEngland should be too.

Think he'll prob use both Murphy and Davitt again, think Baxter will hold her spot, Jackie Shiels on bench

Murphy and Davitt both play 12. One on the bench?

Thud

sullivlo wrote: »

Murphy and Davitt both play 12. One on the bench?

A half each same as US and NZ game, possibly Murphy first this time but she does seem to get fired up on the bench

Strazdas

Thud wrote: »

They only lost by a converted try to England who had a huge home advantage/crowd in Twickenham, i think we can easily turn that around and this team is fitter and better drilled than back then, that saidEngland should be too.

Think he'll prob use both Murphy and Davitt again, think Baxter will hold her spot, Jackie Shiels on bench

I'd be far more inclined to use this tournament as a form guide too. How Ireland played against England in a 6 Nations match in February is hardly likely to be a strong indicator for how this one will go : six months is a long time in sport.

I'm not even going to link it because it doesn't deserve the clicks but Niamh Horan has written just about the worst article I've ever seen today in the Indo. She went to Railway Union to participate in a training sessions and see what women's rugby was about and filled the article with innuendo and **** about fake tan. Utter trash.

RU have put a message on facebook about how disappointing they found the article and how it did nothing to promote women's rugby in the light of the success at the WRWC, they were a lot more even handed than I would have been.

sullivlo

Taylor Greasy Thriftiness wrote: »

I'm not even going to link it because it doesn't deserve the clicks but Niamh Horan has written just about the worst article I've ever seen today in the Indo. She went to Railway Union to participate in a training sessions and see what women's rugby was about and filled the article with innuendo and **** about fake tan. Utter trash.

RU have put a message on facebook about how disappointing they found the article and how it did nothing to promote women's rugby in the light of the success at the WRWC, they were a lot more even handed than I would have been.

As a player I found the farce of an article insulting.

#thisiswomensrugby on twitter is much better

connemara man

Taylor Greasy Thriftiness wrote: »

I'm not even going to link it because it doesn't deserve the clicks but Niamh Horan has written just about the worst article I've ever seen today in the Indo. She went to Railway Union to participate in a training sessions and see what women's rugby was about and filled the article with innuendo and **** about fake tan. Utter trash.

RU have put a message on facebook about how disappointing they found the article and how it did nothing to promote women's rugby in the light of the success at the WRWC, they were a lot more even handed than I would have been.

I saw the title of it and couldn't even look at it seemed ridiculous

sullivlo

connemara man wrote: »

I saw the title of it and couldn't even look at it seemed ridiculous

This is a good overview

http://balls.ie/rugby/article-exactly-irish-womens-rugby-without/

Piliger

Taylor Greasy Thriftiness wrote: »

I'm not even going to link it because it doesn't deserve the clicks but Niamh Horan has written just about the worst article I've ever seen today in the Indo. She went to Railway Union to participate in a training sessions and see what women's rugby was about and filled the article with innuendo and **** about fake tan. Utter trash.

RU have put a message on facebook about how disappointing they found the article and how it did nothing to promote women's rugby in the light of the success at the WRWC, they were a lot more even handed than I would have been.

It is an absolutely disgusting kick in the teeth to the squad of amazing women representing us in Paris. These women have beaten the best in the world in a serious and deeply impressive women's game, and all we get in the Independent is a complete Pi$$ take on women's rugby.

Shameful.

Snickers Man

Piliger wrote: »

It is an absolutely disgusting kick in the teeth to the squad of amazing women representing us in Paris. These women have beaten the best in the world in a serious and deeply impressive women's game, and all we get in the Independent is a complete Pi$$ take on women's rugby.

Shameful.

Ah lighten up. She wasn't training with the women's national side. It was Railway Union, FFS. Not so long ago their Wikipedia page described them as "a drinking club with a rugby problem" which sounds like a fine set of priorities to me.

Not all levels of the game are about "keeping your focus" and "getting in the zone" and "playing the patterns". That's all very well at the serious levels, but there is still, thank the Lord, a strong subset of the game which has always been about fun and social contact. It's not for the Roy Keanes of this world but one size does not fit all.

Thank God for the Railway Unions of this world.

And for the fact that Gavin Henson isn't the only rugby player who wears fake tan.

connemara man

sullivlo wrote: »

This is a good overview

http://balls.ie/rugby/article-exactly-irish-womens-rugby-without/

Ugh. Just Ugh. Instead of dispelling stereotypes it actually manages to create a whole new set For the worse. Even the most amateur teams train hard and play hard. Which would of actually have been a better general article. Shedding light on the hard work and dedication of the team and the craic they have

Strazdas

sullivlo wrote: »

This is a good overview

http://balls.ie/rugby/article-exactly-irish-womens-rugby-without/

That's what happens when you send a complete airhead with no interest in sport along to do a sports story.

molloyjh

It's the Indo folks. Don't tell me you expected better? Sure they employed Conor Grorge as a rugby analyst ffs!

The Lost Sheep

Its firstly the SINDO and secondly its Niamh Horan...
All the article does is tell us what a clown NH is and the article just lazily uses poor stereotypes and does nothing for helping the sport.

thomond2006

It's the Indo. Burn or use as toilet paper and move on.

While the article is a disgrace I can't help but play devil's advocate. Niamh Horan's article is written by someone who isn't a fan of Rugby for an audience who aren't fans of Rugby. If you are posting here, you aren't the target audience of that article.

sullivlo

Deleted User wrote: »

While the article is a disgrace I can't help but play devil's advocate. Niamh Horan's article is written by someone who isn't a fan of Rugby for an audience who aren't fans of Rugby. If you are posting here, you aren't the target audience of that article.

But if you're not posting here and are the target audience of rugby, it paints female rugby players in a very negative light.

irishbucsfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

While the article is a disgrace I can't help but play devil's advocate. Niamh Horan's article is written by someone who isn't a fan of Rugby for an audience who aren't fans of Rugby. If you are posting here, you aren't the target audience of that article.

I know plenty of people who aren't fans of rugby at all who found it disgraceful

iwantmydinner

[Deleted User] wrote: »

While the article is a disgrace I can't help but play devil's advocate. Niamh Horan's article is written by someone who isn't a fan of Rugby for an audience who aren't fans of Rugby. If you are posting here, you aren't the target audience of that article.

Sorry but that article is shyte no matter who you are or how much you know about rugby.

peckerhead

I agree, but it's a bit like people complaining about the dross that passes for television. You have to have a TV licence; you don't have to buy or read a POS like the Indo.

dregin

Railway's statement on the matter:

"Railway Union RFC were requested by the IRFU to facilitate a journalist from the Sunday Independent who wanted to do a training session and a feature on women's rugby in light of Ireland's world cup heroics. We are disappointed that what could have been a hugely positive article promoting women's rugby in Ireland at time of such achievement internationally has been reduced to stereotyping. The article in no way reflects our sport, its values and the values of our club and our members. Our club's primary goal is always the promotion of rugby, regardless of gender, and we support all teams in the club equally. "

sullivlo

peckerhead wrote: »

I agree, but it's a bit like people complaining about the dross that passes for television. You have to have a TV licence; you don't have to buy or read a POS like the Indo.

I didn't buy it, I navigated to it after reading the article on balls.ie and seeing my team mates go mental on social media.

Its certainly giving Horan the attention she clearly craves, it's just a shame it had to be at the detriment of the many women who play rugby and the 26 women doing us all proud in Paris.

Thud

dregin wrote: »

Railway's statement on the matter:

They removed a previous tweet saying it was a "great feature"

dregin

Thud wrote: »

They removed a previous tweet saying it was a "great feature"

Yeah, they addressed that in the comments... sec.

dregin

Taken from https://www.facebook.com/railwayunionrfc/photos/a.631535006880630.1073741832.182398075127661/805378756162920/?type=1

Brendan

Our first posting was done by one individual this morning. Whilst they may have had some concerns about the overall tone of the article, they tried to put a positive spin on it when first posting.

There were some positives in there in that rugby is for all body shapes and sizes, she references how much fun it actually was, it mentions how women are easier coach and learn quicker, and it tells a positive story about women's rugby being embraced and valued by the whole club.

We tried to dismiss the less flattering pieces as being 'risqué and stereotypes' and went to focus on the positives.

Obviously this was an error and it became apparent that our players and members - both male and female - were quite offended by the article. Our Committee reviewed the article and decided to provide a Club statement on the background to it and our disappointment of the missed opportunity for a positive article.

No conspiracy, no agenda, just a amateur club with hardworking volunteers trying to do their best to provide and promote rugby for all.

Thanks

Dietsquirt

Hi folks, sorry to interject, haven't followed this world cup much. Are the Irish girls 'expected' to beat the English on Wednesday?

I see the Kiwi's took their defeat in good spirit.

sydthebeat

Dietsquirt wrote: »

Hi folks, sorry to interject, haven't followed this world cup much. Are the Irish girls 'expected' to beat the English on Wednesday?

I see the Kiwi's took their defeat in good spirit.

no, i wouldnt say they are expected.

the bookies have the english as favourites (-4 in the spread)
England have also beaten ireland the last time they met, by 17 - 10
Ireland beat england the year previous on the way to the grand slam, though england would argue they had a lot of first teamers off playing in the world cup 7's.

I think if both teams play to their best, i fancy ireland to win.

The Lost Sheep

Dietsquirt wrote: »

Hi folks, sorry to interject, haven't followed this world cup much. Are the Irish girls 'expected' to beat the English on Wednesday?

I see the Kiwi's took their defeat in good spirit.

Wouldn't say they are expected to win. Ireland narrowly lost in 6Nations this year and last year is our only ever win against England.
The side has great momentum from the NZ game and prob will go into game as slight favourites

Strazdas

Dietsquirt wrote: »

Hi folks, sorry to interject, haven't followed this world cup much. Are the Irish girls 'expected' to beat the English on Wednesday?

I see the Kiwi's took their defeat in good spirit.

I would say no. The English are the bookies' favourites, and have the greater pedigree and reputation.

On the other hand, you could argue that Ireland are the form team heading into this match. NZ were a gigantic scalp and it can't really be said that this was a poor Kiwi team or that they were well below par on the day : they annihilated Kazakhstan and hammered a strong US team either side of the Irish defeat.

Stheno

Irish Ref Helen O'Reilly is refereeing the second semi final

Snickers Man

Taylor Greasy Thriftiness wrote: »

Niamh Horan has written just about the worst article I've ever seen today in the Indo.

Jeez, you mustn't be a regular reader of the Sindo then. :rolleyes:

C'mon guys and girls. Get a grip. This is fake anger building to a tornado of hot air over not very much. I am not, never have been nor am ever likely to be an employee of the Sunday Independent and there are quite a few "columnists" on said paper I would happily tow out to shark-infested seas on a raft if I could be bothered so I have no axe to grind, but really, what is the great crime she has committed here?

Was it meant to be "The Definitive Article About The State of the Grassroots Game that has Produced the First Irish National XV to Beat New Zealand" or, given that it was the Sindo, was it in fact a light-hearted look at the sort of people who play rugby for fun at one of the capital's smaller but friendlier clubs?

What did you expect? Tackle counts? Bleep Test comparisons? Worthy evaluations of angles of running and perhaps some technical insight into the particulars of women playing such a high-contact sport?

Or maybe you wanted a load of worthy platitudes as quotes of the kind typically heard by media-trained and management-cowed young pros along the lines of "Great belief in the team", "Always going to be a tough match but we were confident" "Keep our focus" "Zero mistakes" blah blah blah.

This is the sort of turgid tripe that every team sportsman trundles out nowadays whenever a mic is put under their nose. I have to say my heart sank when I saw the young lads in the under 19 team which did so well at their recent world cup coming out with this cut-and-paste ****e. Come on lads! Let's hear your real opinions! We know you've got them!

So a young jolly-sooper journo goes down to a club and in a light-hearted peice describes a warm welcome, a friendly atmosphere, and a generous introduction to a rough and tumble game which can be very daunting for a first timer.

OK, in passing she asks the sort of questions, some of them trite, that the uninitiated might wonder about even if they daren't ask out loud (do they wear comfortable boots?) but she leaves the overall impression that this is something the young women do because they love it. It's fun. It's social. It's worth the commitment, even if the limit of your ambition is to learn enough to play the game with your friends once a week and then put your face on and party. How bad is that?

In fact, she DISPELLED most of the stereotypes that the chauvinistic among us might assume apply to women rugby players. Mind you, I don't think the pictures of her passing the ball while her ample blonde tresses blew free will fool anyone. You tie up hair like that when you step on a rugby field at any level otherwise some bitch, possibly a nun in real life, will grab a handful of it the first chance she gets.

Much of the hysterical reaction to this piece is reminiscent of the control freakery that goes on among the more sensitive team bosses in the GAA like "Jimmy's winning matches" Wosname from Donegal or the Clare hurling coach. Each of whom has lost his knickers in high profile spats with journalists in recent times. The latter because a Clare journalist wrote something about the team's performances that was less than fawning and the former because a journalist had the temerity to interview one of his players when he didn't want him to.

It has never been part of good journalism to allow the subject to hold the pen, or the editing pencil. To the extent that subjects think they have a right to do so they are losing the run of themselves.

If you want serious articles on the social importance of a successful national women's side, or technical insights into the quality of the matches, there are and will be plenty of them about. And so there should be for a game that is professional at its top levels.

But rugby has always had a strong basis in working-up-a-thirst mud larkery. And it's good to see that this is spreading to the fairer sex. One of the game's classic pieces of literature is the Art of Coarse Rugby, written about 50 years ago, which brilliantly describes the culture of the lowly amateur sides made up of players of all shapes, sizes and ages and of matches where the two sides rarely have the same number of players. A manual for the pursuit of excellence it was not; for the pursuit of fun and a lifelong love for all aspects of the game, it could not be bettered.

I get the impression that it's not on the reading list of many here. And that is a shame.

sullivlo

Stheno wrote: »

Irish Ref Helen O'Reilly is refereeing the second semi final

Helen is actually a decent ref!

ThisRegard

Any chance of a TL;DR synopsis? Your post might even be longer than the original article itself, and I didn't read more than a paragraph of that.

Piliger

sullivlo wrote: »

Helen is actually a decent ref!

Well I haven't seen a lot of Women's rugby and of her, but she disallowed a good try by, was the USA ? at the weekend against the ABs.

sullivlo

Piliger wrote: »

Well I haven't seen a lot of Women's rugby and of her, but she disallowed a good try by, was the USA ? at the weekend against the ABs.

Well I have been reffed by her and she is decent. I didn't see the disallowed try so I can't comment.

Judgement Day

Piliger wrote: »

Well I haven't seen a lot of Women's rugby and of her, but she disallowed a good try by, was the USA ? at the weekend against the ABs.

The All Blacks aren't playing until Saturday so it can't have been them.

Piliger

Judgement Day wrote: »

The All Blacks aren't playing until Saturday so it can't have been them.

Yup. USA vs NZ
09/08 - 18:00 New Zealand 34 - 3 USA

feargale

Judgement Day wrote: »

The All Blacks aren't playing until Saturday so it can't have been them.

They're using the Gregorian calendar.

awec

Ireland Women's Team (to play England, IRB Women's Rugby World Cup, Semi-Final. Stade Jean Bouin, Paris - Wednesday, 13th August, 18.00 local, 17.00 Irl)
15. Niamh Briggs (UL Bohemians/Munster)
14. Ashleigh Baxter (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
13. Lynne Cantwell (Richmond RFC/Exile)
12. Grace Davitt (Cooke/Ulster)
11. Alison Miller (Portlaoise/Connacht)
10. Nora Stapleton (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
9. Tania Rosser (Blackrock/Leinster)
1. Fiona Coghlan (UL Bohemians/Leinster) Capt.
2. Gillian Bourke (UL Bohemians/Munster)
3. Ailis Egan (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
4. Sophie Spence (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
5. Marie Louise Reilly (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
6. Paula Fitzpatrick (St. Marys/Leinster)
7. Claire Molloy (Bristol/Connacht)
8. Heather O'Brien (Highfield RFC/Munster)

Replacements:
16. Sharon Lynch (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
17. Fiona Hayes (UL Bohemians/Munster)
18. Siobhan Fleming (Tralee/Munster)
19. Laura Guest (Highfield/Munster)
20. Larissa Muldoon (Bristol/Exile)
21. Jenny Murphy (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
22. Hannah Casey (Saracens/Exiles)

Thud

Same as team that started against NZ, few changes on the bench though

sullivlo

Strong team. Delighted to see Fitz at 6 - she played a blinder (no pun intended!) the last two games and deserves a start.

adelcrowsmel

Surprised that Jackie Shields doesn't make the 22 thought that she had a great game against Kazakhstan?!