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There's no academic difference between working class and middle class children

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  • #182
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Cantremember wrote: »
    So problems are dealt with when others have other work to do. And the others progress is spot on. Look, you're happy because your brother is happier. There's a picture you're not aware of and you can see it some other posts.

    Now you're just making stuff up. I can see the whole picture. My brother no longer causes problems in the classroom because the teachers deal with it properly. Could you explain to me where there's something wrong with that?


  • #183
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    sup_dude wrote: »
    :confused:
    Of course it didn't benefit many in the long run... it made the situation a lot worse and did nothing to help his behaviour except make it worse too. That doesn't improve down the years if it continues.
    When it changed in his new school, suddenly we have benefits for everyone. How can you tell me that by causing huge amounts of disruption to the class will benefit the many in the long run... when there was an easier and quicker solution that benefited the entire class that came into effect immediately?

    Because he left. And if the school adopted the other approach they would get a few more like him coming along to benefit from this approach and then the kids who were having to put up with all this stuff on the side would transfer elsewhere. It's the reality.


  • #184
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Cantremember wrote: »
    Lol. Is he in the same school?

    The same solution would have worked in the previous school. Instead, his new school has just about no misbehaving children, where as his old school will continue to do so until the change. Whether my brother is still there or not.


  • #185
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    What picture is he unaware of?

    Read some of the other posts. Yourself. Good man.


  • #186
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Cantremember wrote: »
    Because he left. And if the school adopted the other approach they would get a few more like him coming along to benefit from this approach and then the kids who were having to put up with all this stuff on the side would transfer elsewhere. It's the reality.

    He was the only badly behaved kid in the school...in fact, there were several, which other students had to put up with. The new school doesn't have to put up with badly behaved kids. I think you're missing that point.


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  • #187
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,223 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Piliger wrote: »
    Absolutely. It is criminal to punish dozens of children. Kids with special needs need to get special treatment.

    And special assustance can be given in a lot of cases within a mainstream setting. I agree where this isnt possible that its problematic but as Sup_dude has shown it can often be possible with a different attitude.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #188
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Cantremember wrote: »
    Read some of the other posts. Yourself. Good man.

    I actually think the point has gone wayyy over your head...


  • #189
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    sup_dude wrote: »
    Now you're just making stuff up. I can see the whole picture. My brother no longer causes problems in the classroom because the teachers deal with it properly. Could you explain to me where there's something wrong with that?

    You can't. He still causes problems. They're just processed differently. The outcome of that different processing for others has been outlined by a different poster on this thread.


  • #190
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,223 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Cantremember wrote: »
    Read some of the other posts. Yourself. Good man.

    I can read thanks.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #191
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    sup_dude wrote: »
    I actually think the point has gone wayyy over your head...

    Of course you do. Think of it as your comfort blanket.


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  • #192
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    I can read thanks.

    Well then don't ask others to do it for you.


  • #193
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Cantremember wrote: »
    You can't. He still causes problems. They're just processed differently. The outcome of that different processing for others has been outlined by a different poster on this thread.

    He doesn't still cause problems. I've already said he doesn't. He doesn't cause any problems in school any more because he doesn't hate school any more.


  • #194
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,223 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Cantremember wrote: »
    You can't. He still causes problems. They're just processed differently. The outcome of that different processing for others has been outlined by a different poster on this thread.

    Has it? Do you know the exact circumstances here?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #195
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,223 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Cantremember wrote: »
    Well then don't ask others to do it for you.

    I'm not asking anyone to do it for me.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #196
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    sup_dude wrote: »
    He was the only badly behaved kid in the school...in fact, there were several, which other students had to put up with. The new school doesn't have to put up with badly behaved kids. I think you're missing that point.

    It does. They just process them differently.


  • #197
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    sup_dude wrote: »
    He doesn't still cause problems. I've already said he doesn't. He doesn't cause any problems in school any more because he doesn't hate school any more.

    I thought you said his behaviour was caused by a childhood illness? Not from hating school? I thought you said the teacher dealt with things aside from the group? Oh, ok.


  • #198
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Cantremember wrote: »
    It does. They just process them differently.

    No. Really, it doesn't. With kids with behavioural problems, it's usually small normal things that esculate into something serious so what might have started with "he took my ruler and hasn't given it back" ends up a huge fight and drama. In his new school "he took my ruler and hasn't given it back" ends up a lesson on self awareness, empathy and results in the ruler being given back with any fuss.


  • #199
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Cantremember wrote: »
    I thought you said his behaviour was caused by a childhood illness? Not from hating school? I thought you said the teacher dealt with things aside from the group? Oh, ok.

    It is cause by a childhood illness. He had cancer when he was two and two is when you start learning right from wrong. Instead, he spent the year in Crumlin. I said school caused it to be worse. I have repeated in several times. They do, and it's resolved before it becomes a problem.


  • #200
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Has it? Do you know the exact circumstances here?

    No, neither do you. We are all dealing withe thing as outlined. But you can see another poster outlined the consequences in their experience of such an approach.


  • #201
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    sup_dude wrote: »
    It is cause by a childhood illness. He had cancer when he was two and two is when you start learning right from wrong. Instead, he spent the year in Crumlin. I said school caused it to be worse. I have repeated in several times. They do, and it's resolved before it becomes a problem.

    No. It is a problem no longer defined as a problem which is deflected before it escalates. That is the approach. The bigger picture is the impact of the deflection on others.


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  • #202
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,223 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Cantremember wrote: »
    No, neither do you. We are all dealing withe thing as outlined. But you can see another poster outlined the consequences in their experience of such an approach.
    And? Thats a different experience. Your insinuation seems to be that sup_dudes brother is causing difficulties for a whole class of 30 but the only thing you are basing this is on piligers experience.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #203
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Cantremember wrote: »
    No. It is a problem no longer defined as a problem which is deflected before it escalates. That is the approach. The bigger picture is the impact of the deflection on others.

    There. is. NO. impact on others... Zero, ziltch, nada...


  • #204
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    sup_dude wrote: »
    No. Really, it doesn't. With kids with behavioural problems, it's usually small normal things that esculate into something serious so what might have started with "he took my ruler and hasn't given it back" ends up a huge fight and drama. In his new school "he took my ruler and hasn't given it back" ends up a lesson on self awareness, empathy and results in the ruler being given back with any fuss.

    Yes we all understand that. The thing that needs to be borne in mind is how all this affects the larger group.


  • #205
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    sup_dude wrote: »
    There. is. NO. impact on others... Zero, ziltch, nada...

    So you say.


  • #206
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Cantremember wrote: »
    Yes we all understand that. The thing that needs to be borne in mind is how all this affects the larger group.

    It doesn't. Yelling and screaming and causing fights does. Calmly sorting it when there is time doesn't.


  • #207
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,223 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Cantremember wrote: »
    No. It is a problem no longer defined as a problem which is deflected before it escalates. That is the approach. The bigger picture is the impact of the deflection on others.

    Are you seriously extrapolating piligers story and deciding that all experiences and situations are the exact same?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #208
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Cantremember wrote: »
    So you say.

    So I know.


  • #209
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Are people seriously suggesting that a kid with a childhood illness should be removed from class?


  • #210
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    And? Thats a different experience. Your insinuation seems to be that sup_dudes brother is causing difficulties for a whole class of 30 but the only thing you are basing this is on piligers experience.

    No. I am pointing out that teaching time devoted to dealing with issues in the prescribed manner even as described will be impacting on progress; another poster put their experience up.


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  • #211
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,223 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Cantremember wrote: »
    Yes we all understand that. The thing that needs to be borne in mind is how all this affects the larger group.

    What evidence have you that the larger group is negatively affected?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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