Protestors disrupting World War 1 commemoration at Glasnevin

TheDoc

K-9 wrote: »

I doubt Republican SF will be in power in your lifetime, but stranger things have happened, and indeed regularly do in the evolution of an Irish Republican.

I appreciate by the way there are two distinctly seperate groups that carry the Sinn Fein name, but as the electorate become increasingly disentivised with politics and the mainstream parties, there is a growing trend of indepedants and more radical views and groups being elected.

I remember saying that I'd rue the day if Enda Kenny ever came into power, and that happened, so ****ing anything is possible at this stage.

Little CuChulainn

Strazdas wrote: »

Absolutely shameful. This is a commemoration of the IRISH war dead in WW1.

They probably consider them traitors or some such nonsense.

major bill

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

They probably consider them traitors or some such nonsense.

Republican Sinn Fein consider Gerry Adams and co Traitors.....Shower of lunatics

FTA69

While I don't agree with picketing commemorations, the whole thing is a bit cringe worthy in its own right. World War One was a shameful conflict, a wholesale slaughter of working class people who were killed so an imperial ruling class could contest to see who would rob more in future. There was nothing noble about it, it certainly had little to do with "freedom" considering the British Army went on a rampage in Ireland soon after the war in an effort to crush Irish Independence.

I have no problem commemorating the war dead but I do have a problem when it gets piggy-backed on to the broader narrative of British imperialism being a splendid thing. Why can't we commemorate our own dead without having to do so in front of British imperial trappings such as aristocrats and British Army bands?

TheDoc

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

They probably consider them traitors or some such nonsense.

Traitor was being shouted by a select few according to the family. Which really, REALLY upset a good few people.

K-9

I think you'd need a certain frame of mind to connect the commemoration to British Imperialism. That's nothing personal FTA69, I'd say imperialism would cross very few minds of those there today, and they'd mostly be the protestors!

TheDoc

FTA69 wrote: »

While I don't agree with picketing commemorations, the whole thing is a bit cringe worthy in its own right. World War One was a shameful conflict, a wholesale slaughter of working class people who were killed so an imperial ruling class could contest to see who would rob more in future. There was nothing noble about it, it certainly had little to do with "freedom" considering the British Army went on a rampage in Ireland soon after the war in an effort to crush Irish Independence.

I have no problem commemorating the war dead but I do have a problem when it gets piggy-backed on to the broader narrative of British imperialism being a splendid thing. Why can't we commemorate our own dead without having to do so in front of British imperial trappings such as aristocrats and British Army bands?

They are here paying respects. I've no problem with British dignitaries being present paying their respects. There was a heavy presence from our armed forces there today providing a guard of honour etc.

knucklehead6

FTA69 wrote: »

While I don't agree with picketing commemorations, the whole thing is a bit cringe worthy in its own right. World War One was a shameful conflict, a wholesale slaughter of working class people who were killed so an imperial ruling class could contest to see who would rob more in future. There was nothing noble about it, it certainly had little to do with "freedom" considering the British Army went on a rampage in Ireland soon after the war in an effort to crush Irish Independence.

I have no problem commemorating the war dead but I do have a problem when it gets piggy-backed on to the broader narrative of British imperialism being a splendid thing. Why can't we commemorate our own dead without having to do so in front of British imperial trappings such as aristocrats and British Army bands?

Probably because they were fighting under the English flag at the time?

discus

Why does it matter if the British are there? It's OUR celebration. The people who are attending the celebration are the ones who have dead relatives, or who feel they owe to the dead to pay tribute. People are entitled to mark an event in peace.

meoklmrk91

Congratulations Republican Sinn Fein, you can now be officially branded as the Irish Westboro Baptist Church, who would picket something like this? The lack of respect is astounding, ****ing scumbags.

discus

Let's not forget that many men listened to Redmonds call, and fought for 4 years through the whole of the war, and returned to find they had been betrayed. My own Great Godfather tore up his British Army pension book when he returned from WW1. I bet he was a traitor too, in their sick republican eyes.

castletownman

These proud protestors will probably rock up to their local later on and will be shoulder to shoulder singing "Green Fields of France". Which of course is a song commemorating the fallen of WW1.

Oh the irony

Cold Vapour

Everyone forgets the poor Austria Hungarians and the Ottoman Empire.

LordSutch

FTA69 wrote: »

While I don't agree with picketing commemorations, the whole thing is a bit cringe worthy in its own right. World War One was a shameful conflict, a wholesale slaughter of working class people who were killed so an imperial ruling class could contest to see who would rob more in future. There was nothing noble about it, it certainly had little to do with "freedom" considering the British Army went on a rampage in Ireland soon after the war in an effort to crush Irish Independence.

I have no problem commemorating the war dead but I do have a problem when it gets piggy-backed on to the broader narrative of British imperialism being a splendid thing. Why can't we commemorate our own dead without having to do so in front of British imperial trappings such as aristocrats and British Army bands?

Is this the 1st post with a "hint" of support for the protestors :cool:

I notice you say that "I do have a problem when it gets piggy-backed on to the broader narrative of British imperialism being a splendid thing. Why can't we commemorate our own dead. . ." but of course this is why the ceremony is being held in the middle of the Summer holidays & not during Remembrance week in November, which is the usual excuse for complaint amongst hardline Republicans!

Fratton Fred

FTA69 wrote: »

While I don't agree with picketing commemorations, the whole thing is a bit cringe worthy in its own right. World War One was a shameful conflict, a wholesale slaughter of working class people who were killed so an imperial ruling class could contest to see who would rob more in future. There was nothing noble about it, it certainly had little to do with "freedom" considering the British Army went on a rampage in Ireland soon after the war in an effort to crush Irish Independence.

I have no problem commemorating the war dead but I do have a problem when it gets piggy-backed on to the broader narrative of British imperialism being a splendid thing. Why can't we commemorate our own dead without having to do so in front of British imperial trappings such as aristocrats and British Army bands?

I think you are looking for something that simply isn't there.

FTA69

FTA69 wrote: »

While I don't agree with picketing commemorations, the whole thing is a bit cringe worthy in its own right. World War One was a shameful conflict, a wholesale slaughter of working class people who were killed so an imperial ruling class could contest to see who would rob more in future. There was nothing noble about it, it certainly had little to do with "freedom" considering the British Army went on a rampage in Ireland soon after the war in an effort to crush Irish Independence.

I have no problem commemorating the war dead but I do have a problem when it gets piggy-backed on to the broader narrative of British imperialism being a splendid thing. Why can't we commemorate our own dead without having to do so in front of British imperial trappings such as aristocrats and British Army bands?

You do realise that they fought for the British Army yeah?

FTA69

At the end of the day, WW1 was fundamentally about a clash of empires and rival ruling classes who used millions of young men as cannon fodder in pursuit of an imperial goal. It was wholesale slaughter on a terrible scale and there was nothing noble or laudable about the goals for which it was fought.

As I said, I have no problem with commemorating the Irish war dead; it's a pretty massive part of our history after all. My main problem is when it latches onto British symbolism such as the poppy, the Union Flag, British aristocrats and the British Army. As far as I'm concerned there's nothing positive about any of that lark and it's something we should be moving away from.

FTA69

Deleted User wrote: »

You do realise that they fought for the British Army yeah?

I'm aware of that fact yeah; it's the same army that disgraced itself in Ireland numerous times as well as across the world. Personally I think it's bad enough that tens of thousands of Irish men were killed in pursuit of imperial goals without having to have a load of British pomp thrown in on top of it.

Harry Palmr

Any incident that reminds us of what a bunch of cretinous, scuttle****s the Real IRA/Origi etc are is not a bad thing.

Patser

Drove by their protest twice today. There was only about 20 of them, with Republican Sinn Fein flags and a few 32 County Continuity flags and 1 banner reading 'As long of there's a British presence on Irish soil British Royals are not welcome ' so obviously they were using the Duke if Kent's presence as an excuse.

1st time I drove by they were on the opposite side of the road to the main gates to Glasnevin, the 2nd time trying to
climb the fence, tape flags to it and generally shouting to be heard.

There were Guards at the gate but I'd say they were taking the approach of just keep them out. If they tried arrest them or move them on, that crowd would just scream Garda brutality, peaceful protest etc and feed off the publicity.

And I can guarantee they had zero support from any of the cars in traffic held up there. And surprised that they could be heard at the commemoration due to them being so few in number.

LordSutch

FTA69 wrote: »

At the end of the day, WW1 was fundamentally about a clash of empires and rival ruling classes who used millions of young men as cannon fodder in pursuit of an imperial goal. It was wholesale slaughter on a terrible scale and there was nothing noble or laudable about the goals for which it was fought.

Hurrah, agreed 100% which is exactly why such solemn commemorations take place all over Europe & the world.

FTA69 wrote: »

As I said, I have no problem with commemorating the Irish war dead; it's a pretty massive part of our history after all. My main problem is when it latches onto British symbolism such as the poppy, the Union Flag, British aristocrats and the British Army. As far as I'm concerned there's nothing positive about any of that lark and it's something we should be moving away from.

Ah ha, I see its the inclusion of any Allied/British/Commonwealth symbolism that gets to ya!

Suggest you Wake up, get rid of the symbolic berret, and embrace the new 21st century dispensation of Anglo-Irish relations.

TheQuietFella

Strazdas wrote: »

God knows....I'm wondering if it's because the Duke of Kent is present but they were even heckling the President

Why was there a need for the Duke of Kent?

I don't approve of the protests but why do we need a member of the English
Establishment to honour Irish War dead?

FTA69

FTA69 wrote: »

I'm aware of that fact yeah; it's the same army that disgraced itself in Ireland numerous times as well as across the world. Personally I think it's bad enough that tens of thousands of Irish men were killed in pursuit of imperial goals without having to have a load of British pomp thrown in on top of it.

Why commemorate the war dead at all so?

DEFTLEFTHAND

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Why was there a need for the Duke of Kent?

I don't approve of the protests but why do we need a member of the English
Establishment to honour Irish War dead?

To represent the side the men fought for.

FTA69

LordSutch wrote: »

Hurrah, agreed 100% which is exactly why such solemn commemorations take place all over Europe & the world.



Ah ha, I see its the inclusion of any British/Commonwealth symbolism that get to ya!

Errah be quiet you. If you had your way we wouldn't have left the UK in the first place and a lot more Irishmen would be dying needlessly in imperial adventures across the world in the name of misguided patriotism.

As I said above, I have no problem commemorating the Irish dead. It just p*sses me off when it dove-tails into the British narrative of glorious deeds in the service of the Empire and all of that other servile sh*te that gets thrown out every year to try and justify imperialist bloodshed.

Tabnabs

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Why was there a need for the Duke of Kent?

I don't approve of the protests but why do we need a member of the English
Establishment to honour Irish War dead?

He was there as President of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission (CWGC)

Strazdas

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Why was there a need for the Duke of Kent?

I don't approve of the protests but why do we need a member of the English
Establishment to honour Irish War dead?

I imagine there has to be an acknowledgement they were fighting for the British Empire and technically for the British King at the time (and they would have marched off to war with the Union Jack as their flag).

FTA69

Deleted User wrote: »

Why commemorate the war dead at all so?

Why can't we have our symbol to commemorate our own war dead without adopting the poppy which is a statement of support for ALL British troops including those who committed Bloody Sunday a raft of other atrocities?

Why isn't the presence of our own President enough without having to wheel in a British aristocrat, namely a representative of the class that perpetuated all the bloodshed to begin with?

It isn't the commemoration I have a problem with, it's the method of it.

Strazdas

Patser wrote: »

Drove by their protest twice today. There was only about 20 of them, with Republican Sinn Fein flags and a few 32 County Continuity flags and 1 banner reading 'As long of there's a British presence on Irish soil British Royals are not welcome ' so obviously they were using the Duke if Kent's presence as an excuse.

1st time I drove by they were on the opposite side of the road to the main gates to Glasnevin, the 2nd time trying to
climb the fence, tape flags to it and generally shouting to be heard.

There were Guards at the gate but I'd say they were taking the approach of just keep them out. If they tried arrest them or move them on, that crowd would just scream Garda brutality, peaceful protest etc and feed off the publicity.

And I can guarantee they had zero support from any of the cars in traffic held up there. And surprised that they could be heard at the commemoration due to them being so few in number.

They certainly covered themselves in glory today, even heckling President Higgins as he spoke.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Strazdas wrote: »

They certainly covered themselves in glory today, even heckling President Higgins as he spoke.

Could you make out what they were heckling when Higgins was speaking?

Fratton Fred

FTA69 wrote: »

At the end of the day, WW1 was fundamentally about a clash of empires and rival ruling classes who used millions of young men as cannon fodder in pursuit of an imperial goal. It was wholesale slaughter on a terrible scale and there was nothing noble or laudable about the goals for which it was fought..

Even more reason to commemorate it then, no?

Strazdas

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Could you make out what they were heckling when Higgins was speaking?

One of their most common chants was "Shame, shame, shame on you". I'm not even sure who they were aiming that at, whether it was at the Duke of Kent or the Irish side for even holding the commemoration.

Hunterbiker

Can't see this on the Rte news. Is it?

signostic

Was watching it live on RTE News, they chanted when the Duke was making his speech and when our President spoke although I could not make out what they were chanting..

FTA69

FTA69 wrote: »

Why can't we have our symbol to commemorate our own war dead without adopting the poppy which is a statement of support for ALL British troops including those who committed Bloody Sunday a raft of other atrocities?

Why isn't the presence of our own President enough without having to wheel in a British aristocrat, namely a representative of the class that perpetuated all the bloodshed to begin with?

It isn't the commemoration I have a problem with, it's the method of it.

And these guys fought for that evil force so why would we want them commemorated under our national flag?

comongethappy

signostic wrote: »

Was watching it live on RTE News, they chanted when the Duke was making his speech and when our President spoke although I could not make out what they were chanting..

Hard to make out....

Something about being here & being queer & apparently not wanting anymore bears?

end of the road

Strazdas wrote: »

A peaceful protest in complete silence outside the gates would have been fine but to heckle a memorial service was an utter disgrace. Maybe somebody should go along and play God Save The Queen at them through a loudspeaker at one of their Easter 1916 commemorations.

great idea, the fallout will make an orange order riot look like a disney movey

AudreyHepburn

FTA69 wrote: »

While I don't agree with picketing commemorations, the whole thing is a bit cringe worthy in its own right. World War One was a shameful conflict, a wholesale slaughter of working class people who were killed so an imperial ruling class could contest to see who would rob more in future. There was nothing noble about it, it certainly had little to do with "freedom" considering the British Army went on a rampage in Ireland soon after the war in an effort to crush Irish Independence.

I have no problem commemorating the war dead but I do have a problem when it gets piggy-backed on to the broader narrative of British imperialism being a splendid thing. Why can't we commemorate our own dead without having to do so in front of British imperial trappings such as aristocrats and British Army bands?

Is it not a good thing that our British now want to actively commemorate our war dead?

Our two countries have been at odds long enough. It's time we learned to accept each other's suppport at events like this without sneering and being cynical.

This protest has no place at any Memorial service and the people involved should be ashamed.

They no more represent this country or it's people than the IRA or Sinn Feinn do.

AudreyHepburn

FTA69 wrote: »

Why can't we have our symbol to commemorate our own war dead without adopting the poppy which is a statement of support for ALL British troops including those who committed Bloody Sunday a raft of other atrocities?

Why isn't the presence of our own President enough without having to wheel in a British aristocrat, namely a representative of the class that perpetuated all the bloodshed to begin with?

It isn't the commemoration I have a problem with, it's the method of it.

Is the Poppy not, the modern world, a symbol of remembrance of the War Dead generally?

The British are not our enemy or nor people to be sneered at or hated any more.

Our soldiers fought for them and continue to do so. They have every right to be involved and it's wonderful to see this togetherness between the two countries over what was once such a delicate issue.

TheQuietFella

Tabnabs wrote: »

He was there as President of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission (CWGC)

That explains it so. Thank you!

Happyman42

Strazdas wrote: »

A peaceful protest in complete silence outside the gates would have been fine but to heckle a memorial service was an utter disgrace. Maybe somebody should go along and play God Save The Queen at them through a loudspeaker at one of their Easter 1916 commemorations.

This is what angers me about the 'official' approach to commemoration here.
Men and women fought for many reasons in WW1, God Save The Queen or King would have meant nothing to them. And a goodly proportion of Irish enlisted where ultimately conned and gave their lives in absolute vain.(IMO they all did, but that is another argument altogether) Many who survived where repulsed and ashamed afterwards. Many went awol during the war to try and get back to Ireland to do something about what other battalions of the British Army (who they had been fighting for :eek:) where doing.

Our commemorations NEVER reflect that, or the unique reasons for why so many went and they are coming perilously close to again doffing the hats to our former imperialist masters.

In saying that I do not condone what happened today.

K-9

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Why was there a need for the Duke of Kent?

I don't approve of the protests but why do we need a member of the English
Establishment to honour Irish War dead?

I suppose its the British Establishment recognising the Irish dead in an official capacity.

AudreyHepburn

DirtyLeeds14 wrote: »

The Irish who fought and died in World War 1 were fighting for Ireland, fighting for the Home Rule Bill at the time they thought. Doubt any of these so called Republicans have a clue what I'm talking about though.

The Garda on one side doing absolutely nothing as usual (hands-tied, under resourced, blah, blah) and then these clowns on the other it makes my head hurt.

To be fair to the Gardai if they did try to intervene all they'd get would be an armful of personal injury and police brutality claims as well certain uppity members of the community getting on their high horse about them stopping a 'peaceful protest'.

And you can be sure the real offenders would walk away scott free.

Strazdas

DirtyLeeds14 wrote: »

The Irish who fought and died in World War 1 were fighting for Ireland, fighting for the Home Rule Bill at the time they thought. Doubt any of these so called Republicans have a clue what I'm talking about though.

The Garda on one side doing absolutely nothing as usual (hands-tied, under resourced, blah, blah) and then these clowns on the other it makes my head hurt.

Also a lot of them were from impoverished backgrounds and were doing it to earn money to send back home......there was widespread poverty in Dublin and throughout the country at the time.

Tony EH

DirtyLeeds14 wrote: »

The Irish who fought and died in World War 1 were fighting for Ireland, fighting for the Home Rule Bill at the time they thought.

No, they weren't.

The vast majority of Irish men who went to the Great War, did so for mercenary reasons. Let's be clear and honest on that.

And I say that as the Grandson of a man who went to war, along with his two brothers (who died in France).

Strazdas

K-9 wrote: »

I suppose its the British Establishment recognising the Irish dead in an official capacity.

To remove the British aspect from the commemoration would be a bit odd : they were in the British army and officially fighting for the British Empire.

end of the road

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Is the Poppy not, the modern world, a symbol of remembrance of the War Dead generally?

no, its a symbol of BA murder and bloodshead upon those britain colonized

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

The British are not our enemy or nor people to be sneered at or hated any more.

they never were, it was and is the british army and government, the british army will always be an enemy

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Our soldiers fought for them and continue to do so.

and? they should join their own army

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

They have every right to be involved and it's wonderful to see this togetherness between the two countries over what was once such a delicate issue.

no its not, its a commemoration being hi-jacked by a celebration of empirialism and eleetism

knucklehead6

end of the road wrote: »

and? they should join their own army

For someone who wants to be a soldier joning the PDF hasn't been an option. Therefore they join the army of our nearest neighbour.

Cantremember

So called "republican" Idiots who believe their version of Irish history is the only one and those who disagree will be shouted down of beaten down. For too long their simpletons view has ruled the roost in this Republic. They are a disgrace to the nationalist Irish dead who fought in WW1 and a disgrace to the Fenian dead. And the fe kin Gardai need to wake up and manage protests so these people can be cordoned off and shout their stupidity from a kilometre away.

Hunterbiker

The service must have finished as some those shouting must be online now...