Abbotstown Velodrome?

lennymc

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Why? Sundrive is still there and there are indoor velodromes all over Europe, within cheap flying distance.

I know sundrive is there, but it is really awkward for me to get the time to head over what with el bambino and all. I tried this year, I will try again next year, but i think with the velodrome and the fact that it would be open a lot more than sundrive (and the fact that it's 30 minutes closer to home) would have meant that it would have suited me a lot more than sundrive.

Harrybelafonte

Beasty wrote: »

You said there was "no longer" any money available. My point is there has never been any money available. SB are trying to make a story out of nothing here. Funding was always expected to be down the line. It not all going to come from the Government either. Both Badminton and Cycling will be expected to find some of the cash

I seee where you're coming from. My phrasing was meant to convey that after the division of funds there was none left for velodrome. "No longer". As in it may have been there. Like I said the state was to partially fund the enterprise although this was not promised.

RobFowl

Bottom line is a velodrome is as far away as ever

eeeee

It is now and will be once the indoor is built easier to get track time on sundrive than the indoor. Add to that that all the various national teams will be in it 'full time' or as full time as it can be in Ireland and it'll be more like Manchester, a lot more difficult to get track time than sundrive currently.

Sundrive is a lot more open. Further away from you but open.

I have no time for people who say 'when there's a proper track I'll go' (I know that's not what you're saying lenny, I hear it from non trackies all the time). We have a track, it's a great track. It's not an indoor, which is obviously better but if people want to do track there's a very well run one here. There are good, cheap indoors within cheap flying distance too for those really serious about it. But you don't need an indoor to be serious about it as an amateur in Ireland in my opinion. It'd be nice, it'd be awesome even, but not essential.

Basically if you want to do track you can, we have one, you don't need an indoor. However for us to develop the talent we have here at international level an indoor's essential. Be cool for the rest of us too!

lennymc

gadetra wrote: »

It is now and will be once the indoor is built easier to get track time on sundrive than the indoor. Add to that that all the various national teams will be in it 'full time' or as full time as it can be in Ireland and it'll be more like Manchester, a lot more difficult to get track time than sundrive currently.

Sundrive is a lot more open. Further away from you but open.

I have no time for people who say 'when there's a proper track I'll go' (I know that's not what you're saying lenny, I hear it from non trackies all the time). We have a track, it's a great track. It's not an indoor, which is obviously better but if people want to do track there's a very well run one here. There are good, cheap indoors within cheap flying distance too for those really serious about it. But you don't need an indoor to be serious about it as an amateur in Ireland in my opinion. It'd be nice, it'd be awesome even, but not essential.

Basically if you want to do track you can, we have one, you don't need an indoor. However for us to develop the talent we have here at international level an indoor's essential. Be cool for the rest of us too!

i know all that and really do think that sundrive is a great resource and really do wish I could use it more, but it's a 3 hr round trip for me without actually doing any cycling!!

One of the reasons I would have thought that an indoor track would have higher availability would be because it would not be restricted by the weather or dark nights - you could conceivably have 9pm sessions on a Tuesday all year round for example.

On flying to a track - I would love to, but it's even less of an option for me than making it to sundrive.

eeeee

lennymc wrote: »

i know all that and really do think that sundrive is a great resource and really do wish I could use it more, but it's a 3 hr round trip for me without actually doing any cycling!!

One of the reasons I would have thought that an indoor track would have higher availability would be because it would not be restricted by the weather or dark nights - you could conceivably have 9pm sessions on a Tuesday all year round for example.

On flying to a track - I would love to, but it's even less of an option for me than making it to sundrive.

3 hours :eek: That's steep alright. I have only a 10k commute there :P

The indoor opening hours depends very much on resources i.e. people and the amount of time the national team need. I've heard what the schedule is like in Manchester and track time there is hard to get and expensive. However I have been out in Poland, admittedly of season (in our season) and track time was available and cheap, and they have their national team there (again we were there out of season) so it can be done. All year round, in season with the team there I don't know. In fairness I literally haven't a clue I'm just going on what I have heard of others experiences of indoors.

Beasty

RobFowl wrote: »

Bottom line is a velodrome is as far away as ever

OK, let me give you my "expectation" on this

I do believe this is next in line (of major sports facilities) for Government funding

I think it will be included in next year's Budget (ie it will be announced in October 2016)

I believe CI and Badminton Ireland will need to find some of the funding (perhaps 10-20%). There may be things like naming rights (the "Beastydome" has a certain ring to it.....) they can capitalise on

CI clearly has to buy into it. There is currently support from the Board. I think if there is a change in President at the forthcoming AGM we would need to understand if the new president is as fully bought in as the incumbent

If funding is announced next October I think building will commence in 2017, and hopefully conclude with it opening for Winter 2018

None of this is based on any information I have specifically gleaned from anyone "in the know", but is my assessment based on what I do know and indeed one or two things I understand about how we have got to where we are and the way these things tend to work (and indeed the recent upturn in the Irish economy which I do believe will contribute to such a timetable)

fat bloke

Flying to train with your bicycle is mental imo. It's why I've never skiied, and why I probably never will. I've been saying for years that I should throw the bike in the car and drive beyond Hollywood to do a more southerly spin from there, but I never do. Too much of a faff. I wouldn't even begin to consider boxing my bike up and heading to an airport for a bit of training.

Beasty

fat bloke wrote: »

Flying to train with your bicycle is mental imo. It's why I've never skiied, and why I probably never will. I've been saying for years that I should throw the bike in the car and drive beyond Hollywood to do a more southerly spin from there, but I never do. Too much of a faff. I wouldn't even begin to consider boxing my bike up and heading to an airport for a bit of training.

I suspect there's not too much "boxing their bikes" up with that particular facility. They spend a lot of time there, as do a number of other squads/teams, and I suspect they/CI leave (and possibly even share) a lot of the equipment used there (that's what I do with my offshore training facilities anyway:P)

eeeee

fat bloke wrote: »

Flying to train with your bicycle is mental imo. It's why I've never skiied, and why I probably never will. I've been saying for years that I should throw the bike in the car and drive beyond Hollywood to do a more southerly spin from there, but I never do. Too much of a faff. I wouldn't even begin to consider boxing my bike up and heading to an airport for a bit of training.

Not really. If you want to do track indoors that's what you have to do here, I have flown to train on an indoor a couple of times and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. It depends on what you want to do. Those training for masters etc. need indoor track time, the rest of us just want to do it! If you race and are a vaguely serious amateur you're gonna want to experience an indoor, it's the essence of track, you're gonna want to experience it! Every discipline is different. If there was no mud, mountains or trails here (!) I imagine cyclocrossers and MTBers would go elsewhere to experience that. Same thing.

Beasty

gadetra wrote: »

it'll be more like Manchester, a lot more difficult to get track time than sundrive currently.

I'm not sure about this. How much us Sundrive actually used? maybe 15-20 hours a week, for 9-10 months a year

Manchester can be open 15-20 hours a day, 12 months a year. Sundrive will still be available (assuming all the coaches have not moved over to the new track!)

The bigger issue, short term, will be getting enough qualified coaches. Over time I am sure it will be a very well used facility, but you will be seeing perhaps 5-10 times as many will be able to use it than are currently able to use Sundrive. Of course the elite cyclists (including paracyclists) will get first call, but Manchester is the Team GB base and is still open from 8 until perhaps 10 for public sessions many days, with maybe 2-3 hours reserved for Team GB

Harrybelafonte

I don't share your optimism and I definitely don't see a comparison to Manchester being worthwhile.

I think those of us who cycle track very much understand that the interest amongst cyclists in track goes little beyond watching it and "giving it a go". How many clubs had track days this year? I know of a few. And to be honest they were not attended well and none of the riders teturned to race or get involved. UCD were the only club to have a number of members committ. Track cycling here now is very much reliant on the youth element, who really do show promise.

There's plenty of us older riders at Sundrive who'd like to help coach but training is limited and to go beyond fundamentals involves trips abroad. We need more coaches and we need more derny drivers. Right now there's a core group of very patient people who are keeping the whole thing rolling. They need more support and I don't see it coming soon.

Harrybelafonte

fat bloke wrote: »

Flying to train with your bicycle is mental imo. It's why I've never skiied, and why I probably never will. I've been saying for years that I should throw the bike in the car and drive beyond Hollywood to do a more southerly spin from there, but I never do. Too much of a faff. I wouldn't even begin to consider boxing my bike up and heading to an airport for a bit of training.

There's no comparison here between training for road. Maybe Ireland doesn't have something along the lines of the etape etc but you can still go for a climbing spin. There's nowhere in Ireland where you can learn how to use a 43-45 degree angle banking, not just how to stay up on it, but then how to use it to compete. How to do a Flying 200 and hold your bike still on the embankment if you've never experienced the G-forces that try and push you up the corners. How to do a change over in team pursuit, neatly and without your back wheel slipping away from you.

If you've never been on a steeply banked velodrome it can take an hour or two just to know what speed you should be doing in the corners. you've no speedo, so you have to do it by feel. Then you're a few months away from it and when you get back, you basically have to learn how it all works again.

As for packing your bike, if you can afford it, you'll get most from your training using your own set-up.

RobFowl

Beasty wrote: »

I think it will be included in next year's Budget (ie it will be announced in October 2016)

I fully expect the shinners to be in government then and hope they share your optimism.......

wheelo01

Muahahaha wrote: »

Anyone know how much funding would have been needed? No doubt its a drop in the ocean compared to the €14bn the HSE costs a year, every year

Let's scrap the Health service, absolutely correct!!!

Harrybelafonte

wheelo01 wrote: »

Let's scrap the Health service, absolutely correct!!!

Give the amateur dramatics a rest.

wheelo01

That is the inference, the HSE costs €14b to run, the velodrome would have cost a fraction of that, so let's cut the funding to the HSE and build it. Had it been compared to a lot of other ridiculous (over) spending by this Government, hell, I'd agree, for instance the amount of "advisors" that are employed when there are already qualified Civil Servants available to do the job, and many many more.

Beasty

The pair of you leave it out. This is about the velodrome and its funding. The funding of the HSE is off topic

lennymc

RobFowl wrote: »

I fully expect the shinners to be in government then and hope they share your optimism.......

if the shinners get in I'm getting out!!

RobFowl

lennymc wrote: »

if the shinners get in I'm getting out!!

Would agree but can't see them not getting enough to be part of a coalition

Lock up your women and batten down the hatches....

Lusk_Doyle

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

There's no comparison here between training for road. Maybe Ireland doesn't have something along the lines of the etape etc but you can still go for a climbing spin. There's nowhere in Ireland where you can learn how to use a 43-45 degree angle banking, not just how to stay up on it, but then how to use it to compete. How to do a Flying 200 and hold your bike still on the embankment if you've never experienced the G-forces that try and push you up the corners. How to do a change over in team pursuit, neatly and without your back wheel slipping away from you.

If you've never been on a steeply banked velodrome it can take an hour or two just to know what speed you should be doing in the corners. you've no speedo, so you have to do it by feel. Then you're a few months away from it and when you get back, you basically have to learn how it all works again.

As for packing your bike, if you can afford it, you'll get most from your training using your own set-up.

For what it's worth - most tracks have bikes to hire at very reasonable prices. The logistics and costs of getting there notwithstanding.

Harrybelafonte

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

For what it's worth - most tracks have bikes to hire at very reasonable prices. The logistics and costs of getting there notwithstanding.

I know. But it's always better to bring own bike when possible.

If you hire a bike

1. It can take time to get fit right. Wasted time cos you've limited time to spend there

2. Saddles can be uncomfortable or just not right for you.

3. You're not allowed change the gearing which is the most detrimental to your training. Basically you're left in a warm up gear for the while time you're there.

4. Rental bikes are used often and sometimes not cared for as well as one would like. So BBs can be creaky and lose, etc.

Lusk_Doyle

Fair points. Where can I subscribe to your newsletter?

Harrybelafonte

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eeeee

Cautiously good news:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/indoor-velodrome-may-be-in-place-ahead-of-2020-olympics-1.2437182

However I know the new CI president is no fan of track, and the two part tender process is a bit hmmm too - the humidity and temperature controls in an indoor are essential to how the track is, so surely a specialized track builder would be best to do the whole thing to manage this no? I suppose if the ventilation, humidity and heating is done right…hope is hard to find!

But good news…for now...

RobFowl

gadetra wrote: »

However I know the new CI president is no fan of track,

I think thats unfair !
He's not a fan of the high performance budget being predominantly track focused as we have no velodrome here but accepts its as the behest of the sports council...

eeeee

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/ciaran-mckenna-ive-grave-reservations-about-national-track-set-up/

To quote him from the article:

“I have grave reservations (about) it [national track set up] but I can see the logic in supporting it in the short and medium term,” he said.

“We need to keep lobbying and at the moment we are trying to convince our politicians we need a track and that we have a track programme worth funding.

“We must be seen to have a track programme,” he continued.

“We are stuck with it and if we miss one of these World Cups or other major event it makes it harder for the next time.

“And we might end up in a situation where we can’t go to the Worlds and then can’t go to the Olympics.

“I was over the high performance (national programme) for years before and it’s an area that absolutely just drains funds.

“But when you have a chance of a medal you have to serve your riders."


That is how he spoke about it in his first interview since becoming president. It's the very opposite of enthusiastic. I am 100% convinced he would be a hell of a lot more enthusiastic about a recent Irish road world champion (Martyn Irvine won gold in 2013 as well as other medals) and if the Irish road squad had a change to medal or place top ten at the Olympics as the women's TP squad have.

I could go on but I won't for the sake of my blood pressure!

Beasty

RobFowl wrote: »

I think thats unfair !
He's not a fan of the high performance budget being predominantly track focused as we have no velodrome here but accepts its as the behest of the sports council...

Time will tell

His manifesto was very road focussed. The sessions I attended ahead of the AGM did little to dispel any view he is focused on male junior and senior road racing.

There are limitations that the Sports Council will enforce and he is only one member of the CI Board. I suspect there are others that will seek to protect some of the improvements seen in some of the "lesser" disciplines in recent years.

ThisRegard

Beasty wrote: »

one member of the CI Boars.

That he certainly is if he has no love for the track.

RobFowl

gadetra wrote: »

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/ciaran-mckenna-ive-grave-reservations-about-national-track-set-up/
It's the very opposite of enthusiastic.

He's far from enthusiastic about the present track set up as in the percentage of HP funding which is spent on the track.
He seems to accept that this is due to the UCI designed calendar and the funding criteria set by the sports council.
He seems more enthusiastic about securing a track here and developing a better grass roots scene.
He's far from alone in this view FWIW