€20 for a bath?

V_Moth

I had a look how the charge compares to the rest of Europe and found this:

-Ireland: €4.80 per 1000L (projected)

-Germany: €2 per 1000L (http://www.toytowngermany.com/lofi/index.php/t203718.html)

-France: €4.16 per 1000L (http://www.france-forum-frenchentree.com/viewtopic.php?t=97728)

-Spain €1.50 to 2.50 per 1000L (http://www.justlanded.com/english/Spain/Articles/Property/Utilities-in-Spain)

-Denmark: €4.60 (World's most expensive in 2010 - http://www.icenews.is/2010/04/05/denmark-has-world%E2%80%99s-highest-water-prices/)

So, Ireland will have one of the highest water charges in Europe, even in comparison to countries which are facing severe problems with their water supplies (e.g. Spain, southern France).

hairybelly

Actually thats one thing I never thought about.
Argos are going to take a huge loss on paddling pools next summer.

jester77

V_Moth wrote: »

-Germany: €2 per 1000L (http://www.toytowngermany.com/lofi/index.php/t203718.html)

That is only the cost of the water coming in, you also have to pay for what goes out and the treatment of it.

Waste water costs €2.09 and storm water costs €0.73 per relevant square meter area (based on sized of property). Plus 7% tax on top of that. So that is an extra €3ish on top of the fresh water that has to be paid.

on_my_oe

rainbowtrout wrote: »

You didn't subtract the 30,000 L water allowance per household.

Bill would be about €320 with that removed.

I understood that's gone?

Wibbs

jester77 wrote: »

That is only the cost of the water coming in, you also have to pay for what goes out and the treatment of it.

Waste water costs €2.09 and storm water costs €0.73 per cubic meter. Plus 7% tax on top of that. So that is an extra €3 on top of the fresh water that has to be paid.

Oh you just watch that coming in here soon enough. When talk of this first came up I pretty quickly thought hmmm that's just supply, what about disposal.

KungPao

hairybelly wrote: »

Actually thats one thing I never thought about.
Argos are going to take a huge loss on paddling pools next summer.

Goldfish sales are going to hit the floor! Also, Woodies can forget about selling ponds and garden hoses so well anymore. We'll see a lot of parched lawns and dead flowers during any dry spells.

I worry about small businesses, like a hair salon who's barely scraping together a profit as it is...lots of water used by them.

Uriel.

Wibbs wrote: »

As I said a scalable tax revenue generating exercise.

Still doesn't deflect from the fact that about the wettest nation in said EU will be among those paying the highest water charges. Conservation? I will lay bets now that in five years time we'll still be losing pretty much the same amount of water through leakages and general inefficiencies in the system and the taxes will go up. Like I said government spin.

You're speculation in respect of the quality of infrastructure in 5 years time is but speculation. However, I'd share a similar line of speculation. Be that as it may, Ireland is obliged, under EU law, to introduce a charging system for water - we are now 4 years overdue on this as well. It is part of a framework of EU law and policy in respect of how we manage our (collective) water resources.

I have no doubt that Ireland will end up in, or be close to an ECJ case on the inadequacy of our water management in the future, led predominately by our failure to preserve water quality and to curb water wastage through the public infrastructure.

But failing to comply with one law, does not make it ok not to bother complying with others.

What do you think is Government spin? The need for water charges? Government doesn't really have much of a choice in this regard. I am sure they could delay introduction if they wanted to, and face the wrath of the EU Commission in a few years time, but perhaps they see water charges now as opportune, given the wider economic environment.

Uriel.

KungPao wrote: »

Goldfish sales are going to hit the floor! Also, Woodies can forget about selling ponds and garden hoses so well anymore. We'll see a lot of parched lawns and dead flowers during any dry spells.

I worry about small businesses, like a hair salon who's barely scraping together a profit as it is...lots of water used by them.

Some amount of hysterics there.

Small Businesses (as well as medium and large) already pay for their water as commercial users. Irish Water has taken over the role of commercial water management from the Local Authorities and already confirmed last year that commercial rates were staying the same in 2014 as they were in 2013. Although, for now, Local Authorities are acting as agents for Irish Water for the foreseeable future.

The CER wil determine any future changes in price (domestic or commercial)

mikeym

KungPao wrote: »

I worry about small businesses, like a hair salon who's barely scraping together a profit as it is...lots of water used by them.

Their already paying water charges.

Satriale

Uriel. wrote: »

The CER wil determine any future changes in price (domestic or commercial)

It's a comfort to know that the Quango that took us from having the cheapest electricity in Europe to one of the most expensive will have control of the pricing of our water...

ressem

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh you just watch that coming in here soon enough. When talk of this first came up I pretty quickly thought hmmm that's just supply, what about disposal.

No, the €4.88 is 50% supply, 50% waste treatment.

When the county councils are phased out from the picture there will be a 'directive from europe' insisting that the 'helpless' government / water company add 13.5% VAT.

If you're a business, then the consolidated price including supply and treatment can be as low as €1.59; up to as high as €3.04 due to pumping costs in the altitudes of Wicklow.

So domestic customers are roughly being charged double price or more, once they exceed the exemption.

Might be worthwhile turning your bathroom into a small business with a subscription per family member and visitor?

Quin_Dub

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh you just watch that coming in here soon enough. When talk of this first came up I pretty quickly thought hmmm that's just supply, what about disposal.

It already is.. The independent actually has a better breakdown on the costs than some other places..

There are 2 charges , one for Water Usage and one for Water Treatment.

So , if you are living in a regular house connected to the mains water and sewerage you will pay 0.244c/L for consumption and 0.244c/L for Treatment.

However , if you have your own Septic Tank then you'll only pay the Consumption part..

So initially there are 2 capped charges , a max of €278 if you are paying the 0.488c charge and a max of €139 if you have a septic tank

dodzy

munchkin_utd wrote: »

indeed,
so many compromises that the selected section of the country who do pay (in reality only childless working couple/ singles) after kids and pensioners are exempted pay more than anywhere else.
And THEN - no standing charge either, which only makes the cost per liter higher again.

but anyhow, a shower uses 3.5L per minute - so if youre like me thats 3.5L of water usage so @ 1/2c / L thats less than 2c for a shower.
Heating the water would cost more than the water itsself.

A minute for a shower. You must be mingin'.

Banjo String

I'm waiting anxiously for the first batch of unmetered houses/apts that will refuse to engage with IW.

Currently they have no means of making them pay.

Mass civil disobedience may be on the cards.

bigroad

Is the free allowance gone. i thought we got a certain amount for adults in the household,was it 30,000ltr.
They are only talking about an allowance for children.
Are we to pay for every ltr used now.

Tipsy McSwagger

Should have just charged a €180 water tax for each household.

Phoebas

Banjo String wrote: »

Mass civil disobedience may be on the cards.

If we had a Euro for every time that was predicted we wouldn't need water charges at all.

Ogham

bigroad wrote: »

Is the free allowance gone. i thought we got a certain amount for adults in the household,was it 30,000ltr.
They are only talking about an allowance for children.
Are we to pay for every ltr used now.

Free allowance of 30k per household plus 21k per child

All your questions answered here http://www.moneyguideireland.com/water-charges

Dowl88

Cut the fuc_in dole instead for people on it longer than five years.

Tipsy McSwagger

Dowl88 wrote: »

Cut the fuc_in dole instead for people on it longer than five years.

Oh ffs shut up

Banjo String

Phoebas wrote: »

If we had a Euro for every time that was predicted we wouldn't need water charges at all.

Well with Revenue not being rolled out this time, I think it may come as a surprise the amount of people who have had it up to the mammary glands tbh.

Phoebas

bigroad wrote: »

Is the free allowance gone. i thought we got a certain amount for adults in the household,was it 30,000ltr.
They are only talking about an allowance for children.
Are we to pay for every ltr used now.

The free allowance is still there, but it doesn't suit some people to mention it when doing the cost per litre comparisons with other countries.

Phoebas

Banjo String wrote: »

Well with Revenue not being rolled out this time, I think it may come as a surprise the amount of people who have had it up to the mammary glands tbh.

That's pretty much the same prediction I've heard hundreds of times before. It follows the usual pattern of 'It's different now because <..... > ' and 'People are finally at breaking point...'

Banjo String

The people are at breaking point phoebas. Did the local elections result pass you by

LordSutch

Simon Gruber Says wrote: »

Their math was 80 litres for a bath at .25c per litre. Somehow that's €20

Maybe with an average of twelve bath per year, thats a lot of money for your twelve bath )

Phoebas

Banjo String wrote: »

The people are at breaking point phoebas. Did the local elections result pass you by

I hardly noticed them - they had the second lowest turnout for a local election in the history of the state.
Its not exactly an indicator of a people about to rise up, is it?

sammy37

Dowl88 wrote: »

Cut the fuc_in dole instead for people on it longer than five years.

and that will help those people on the dole for five years or more pay their water charges in what way?

munchkin_utd

V_Moth wrote: »

I had a look how the charge compares to the rest of Europe and found this:

-Ireland: €4.80 per 1000L (projected)

-Germany: €2 per 1000L (http://www.toytowngermany.com/lofi/index.php/t203718.html)
.

yup but

a ) pensioners and families pay for water just like everyone else in germany does. In Ireland, theres always someone "special" thats gets sh1t for free - which means those who pay, pay more.

b ) in germany theres a standing charge of something like €100 euro a year (varies from city to city) as a flat rate charge on the infrastructre which is actually fair as the infrastructre is proportional to the number of users more than amount of water being drawn down.
Oh, and a tenner a year per meter rent/ maintenance- and theres at least 4 in a house

bigroad

If someone is in a social house or doesent have the money to pay they will get an allowance of 100euro per year.
If this is payed the same as their social welfare then it will be 100 in cash as such.
If they use less than the 30,000ltr allowance they could be possible to pocket the 100 euro.
Another part of this is how are they going to meter haulting sites.

munchkin_utd

bigroad wrote: »

If someone is in a social house or doesent have the money to pay they will get an allowance of 100euro per year.
If this is payed the same as their social welfare then it will be 100 in cash as such.
If they use less than the 30,000ltr allowance they could be possible to pocket the 100 euro.
Another part of this is how are they going to meter haulting sites.

sure theres so many kids on the halting sites that it wouldnt be worth your while installing meters to measure all the free water they are getting.

B.A._Baracus

Aren't the price of gym's going to sky rocket 'cause of the water charge?

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Gyms already pay for water. Commercial water rates.

B.A._Baracus

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Gyms already pay for water. Commercial water rates.

But what about people who will use the gym more to shower now?
You know yourself with people. Why heat up the water and jump in the shower at home if you got a gym membership.

So I wouldn't be suprised to see gym memberships going up. Always remember in 2008/2009 that Ben Dunnes Westpoint closed the steamrooms because of the heating costs :pac: Members kicked up and they reopened them.

fxotoole

V_Moth wrote: »

I had a look how the charge compares to the rest of Europe and found this:

-Ireland: €4.80 per 1000L (projected)

-Germany: €2 per 1000L

-France: €4.16 per 1000L

-Spain €1.50 to 2.50 per 1000L

-Denmark: €4.60 (World's most expensive in 2010

So, Ireland will have one of the highest water charges in Europe, even in comparison to countries which are facing severe problems with their water supplies (e.g. Spain, southern France).

Do Germany, France, Spain, or Denmark provide a free allowance though?

Are we still ranked above them after you take that into account?

darkpagandeath

Jesus, Why does every regulator in this country agree with what ever business they are regulating ? Are they just yes men ?

Business "We need to raise the price because of errrrr, Wizard protection"

Regulator "Ok that sounds reasonable, how much would you like"

Business "Errrr (chancing arm) 3% above inflation ?"

Regulator "Lets make it 4% just in case"

darkpagandeath

bigroad wrote: »

If someone is in a social house or doesent have the money to pay they will get an allowance of 100euro per year.
If this is payed the same as their social welfare then it will be 100 in cash as such.
If they use less than the 30,000ltr allowance they could be possible to pocket the 100 euro.
Another part of this is how are they going to meter haulting sites.

You obviously have no idea how SW works, You don't get money given to you. Its usually an allowance taken at source like electricity for example x amount of free units per 2 months. You use them before you get charged. This would be the same. The free allowance has dropped to 21,000 now for a child.

hairybelly

Whats the commercial water rate compared to the public one? and which company is in charge of billing and maintaining the businesses water?

Idbatterim

funny how people have such an issue paying a meagre 2.5c a litre of water, I bet a lot of them dont seem to have an issue with paying over a 1000c for a litre of beer on a night out!

bigroad

darkpagandeath wrote: »

You obviously have no idea how SW works, You don't get money given to you. Its usually an allowance taken at source like electricity for example x amount of free units per 2 months. You use them before you get charged. This would be the same. The free allowance has dropped to 21,000 now for a child.

The fuel allowance is means tested and then added to your social welfare allowance.

darkpagandeath

Idbatterim wrote: »

funny how people have such an issue paying a meagre 2.5c a litre of water, I bet a lot of them dont seem to have an issue with paying over a 1000c for a litre of beer on a night out!

Why was beer paid through direct taxation before they started to charge for it ?

darkpagandeath

bigroad wrote: »

The fuel allowance is means tested and then added to your social welfare allowance.

Sorry yes the €20 is if you qualify, but this will be done via the same way electric is paid. And the Fuel allowance is only for Winter.

bigroad

darkpagandeath wrote: »

No it's not

I think its your who have no clue.You info is wrong.It was added to my cheque.Even if i never bought a bag of coal .

darkpagandeath

bigroad wrote: »

I think its your who have no clue.You info is wrong.It was added to my cheque.Even if i never bought a bag of coal .

I think you will find I changed it when I coped on about you talking about the €20 you get for winter. Water will be free units added to source and used fist then you will be charged just like the electricity.

rainbowtrout

Idbatterim wrote: »

funny how people have such an issue paying a meagre 2.5c a litre of water, I bet a lot of them dont seem to have an issue with paying over a 1000c for a litre of beer on a night out!

It's actually 0.25c per litre

Idbatterim

It's actually 0.25c per litre

my bad, you are right, .25c per litre, i.e. nothing...

bboybaboy19

Idbatterim wrote: »

funny how people have such an issue paying a meagre 2.5c a litre of water, I bet a lot of them dont seem to have an issue with paying over a 1000c for a litre of beer on a night out!

If I had to use 50 or 60 litres of beer every day then I'd be pissed aswell.
Literally and figuratively.

SaveOurLyric

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Jesus, Why does every regulator in this country agree with what ever business they are regulating ? Are they just yes men ?

Business "We need to raise the price because of errrrr, Wizard protection"

Regulator "Ok that sounds reasonable, how much would you like"

Business "Errrr (chancing arm) 3% above inflation ?"

Regulator "Lets make it 4% just in case"

They dont.
They are not.

They analyse the subject, costs, and necessary income required to run the service. That analysis being done by competent experienced professionals, they tend to come up with figures that agree.

They problem is a greater part of the population, who from a position of almost complete ignorance, think they can offer a more accurate conclusion in the jerk of a knee. Which they offer nonetheless.

darkpagandeath

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

They dont.
They are not.

They analyse the subject, costs, and necessary income required to run the service. That analysis being done by competent experienced professionals, they tend to come up with figures that agree.

They problem is a greater part of the population, who from a position of almost complete ignorance, think they can offer a more accurate conclusion in the jerk of a knee. Which they offer nonetheless.

Odd then why do energy prices keep going up, Never any saving passed on due to wholesale price of oil/gas for example passed on.

Dr Turk Turkelton

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

They dont.
They are not.

They analyse the subject, costs, and necessary income required to run the service. That analysis being done by competent experienced professionals, they tend to come up with figures that agree.

They problem is a greater part of the population, who from a position of almost complete ignorance, think they can offer a more accurate conclusion in the jerk of a knee. Which they offer nonetheless.

Lads, I think we have found the regulator.

SaveOurLyric

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Odd then why do energy prices keep going up, Never any saving passed on due to wholesale price of oil/gas for example passed on.

Oil/gas prices always part of the calculation and passed on if there are reductions. But more to the equation than just.
Simpler to ignore that fact though and just complain about the regulator staff despite them being specialists following energy production and distribution costs in detail fulltime.