Cork v Tipperary AI Semi Final

Rightwing

adrian522 wrote: »

I don't think they are rubbish but they haven't been overly brilliant the last 2 years have they?

They have lost matches they should have won and when matches are close and you are looking for leaders to step up Tipp have invariably lost those games. Granted the Galway game was a good performance but I just wouldn't be sure about them when the pressure comes on.

The Limk/KK has proven that there is very little between the teams at the moment. This is certainly a game both teams have to win.

Dayor Knight

adrian522 wrote: »

I don't think they are rubbish but they haven't been overly brilliant the last 2 years have they?

They have lost matches they should have won and when matches are close and you are looking for leaders to step up Tipp have invariably lost those games. Granted the Galway game was a good performance but I just wouldn't be sure about them when the pressure comes on.

That's a fair analysis. We'll have to see on Sunday.

citykat

Dayor Knight wrote: »

Most of them from Kilkenny, I'd say.

Guilty!

Eod100

At the risk of asking a stupid question, there's no way of selecting specific seats for this via the GAA site is there? Know ticketmaster has a seat map yoke where you can but seem to have far less options.

Grats

Maybe I missed something but I don't recall any poster suggesting that Tipp are rubbish. I expect Cork to win not because Tipp are 'rubbish' but because Cork are better.

Martin567

Grats wrote: »

Maybe I missed something but I don't recall any poster suggesting that Tipp are rubbish.

Apparently disagreeing with the statement that Tipp are capable of beating the pick of Cork & Kilkenny is the same as stating that they are rubbish. There's obviously no in between with some people. They have to be either brilliant or rubbish.

Rightwing

Martin567 wrote: »

Apparently disagreeing with the statement that Tipp are capable of beating the pick of Cork & Kilkenny is the same as stating that they are rubbish. There's obviously no in between with some people. They have to be either brilliant or rubbish.

And their own supporters were on the verge of turning on them after 1 defeat. You couldn't make it up.

OAOB

thefloss wrote: »

I've been watching some clips of old Cork / Tipp matches, and interviews with the players for old times sake, you can't bate Cork and Tipp.

I expect a thunderous atmosphere on Sunday, I'm already getting the nerves. Some classic quotes on today's Examiner:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/donkeys-dont-win-derbies-ndash-when-animosity-crosses-line-279462.html
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/words-reveal-true-depth-of-rivalry-279454.html

Some great quotes from legends of both counties. I think it demonstrates the respect both counties have for the rivalry and why it means so much to players and supporters to win

Zardoz

Eod100 wrote: »

At the risk of asking a stupid question, there's no way of selecting specific seats for this via the GAA site is there? Know ticketmaster has a seat map yoke where you can but seem to have far less options.

No ,unfortunately you cant select specific seats .
It also seems to have a very strange method of choosing seats for you ,they seem to sell the worst seats first and better seats closer to the match .
I got some nice seats near the 65 yard line in the upper Hogan last night .

Grats

Martin567 wrote: »

Apparently disagreeing with the statement that Tipp are capable of beating the pick of Cork & Kilkenny is the same as stating that they are rubbish. There's obviously no in between with some people. They have to be either brilliant or rubbish.

Yeah I have to say I'm left confused with some of those posts!

Martin567

Rightwing wrote: »

And their own supporters were on the verge of turning on them after 1 defeat. You couldn't make it up.

My earlier post was directed at you! You claimed that people were calling Tipp rubbish when nobody actually did.

Eod100

Zardoz wrote: »

No ,unfortunately you cant select specific seats .
It also seems to have a very strange method of choosing seats for you ,they seem to sell the worst seats first and better seats closer to the match .
I got some nice seats near the 65 yard line in the upper Hogan last night .

Nice one, yeah only thinking of getting tickets now but seem to be just assigned random seats via Gaa site..

letowski

This should make for a good high scoring match if it stays dry, alot of quality up front for both teams.

I'd agreee with the general consensus that both are fairly evenly matched except for midfield. Cork definitely have a better partnership here and it's mainly for that reason I'd go for a Cork win but not by a whole lot.

One other thing:

I think both sets of supporters would agree that their team don't have a natural full back in their county and will play a make shift player in the position. This though, could possibly work to Tipp's advantage as they have the best full forward in the country this year. Ellis's role for Cork is critical (and fascinating) on Sunday. He will have a really difficult task on Sunday (in his first game in HQ) in trying to give protection and cover to his full back and also dealing with Bonnar how will play out the field looking for work. Tipp will hope that Ellis gets drawn into the battle, as countless other centre backs have with Bonnar, so their is space inside for Callanan to do damage. In fairness to Ellis if the all-stars were picked now, he'd get centre back as he has done very well this year and has fixed a problem position for Cork. This will be his biggest test though.

Anonymou

Cork team just announced, unchanged from Munster final with Pa Cronin recovering from his injury in time.

adrian522

John Allen writing in the Irish Times today.

If you came with this sort of hard hitting analyisis on boards you'd be laughed out of the place.

John Allen wrote:

So where will this game be won and lost?

It will probably be a high-scoring match. So what conclusion can we draw from that where the back lines are concerned?

Very simply that the backs that concede the least will be on the team that will win the game.
That sounds a bit obvious doesn't it.

The bottom line as far as I’m concerned is that I expect both sets of forwards to put up biggish scores and the back line that limits best will be on the winning team.

Jesus Wept.

menace404

I would like to see anyone try and sum it up better. I don't think there has ever been such a high profile AI semi final where the teams are distinctly level pegging. Even the bookies cannot separate the two and that should tell everyone something. Some journalists are so stuck for ways to write about this that they are regurgitating all historical pieces/records/memoirs/autobiographies etc that we see almost every year in Munster when they play.

He has simply called a spade a spade and has basically printed what we are all thinking. Its so bloody hard to call this one.

Rightwing

menace404 wrote: »

I would like to see anyone try and sum it up better. I don't think there has ever been such a high profile AI semi final where the teams are distinctly level pegging. Even the bookies cannot separate the two and that should tell everyone something. Some journalists are so stuck for ways to write about this that they are regurgitating all historical pieces/records/memoirs/autobiographies etc that we see almost every year in Munster when they play.

He has simply called a spade a spade and has basically printed what we are all thinking. Its so bloody hard to call this one.

If Tipp bring their A game, they will blow them out of the water. That's the only issue as far as I'm concerned.

adrian522

menace404 wrote: »

I would like to see anyone try and sum it up better. I don't think there has ever been such a high profile AI semi final where the teams are distinctly level pegging. Even the bookies cannot separate the two and that should tell everyone something. Some journalists are so stuck for ways to write about this that they are regurgitating all historical pieces/records/memoirs/autobiographies etc that we see almost every year in Munster when they play.

He has simply called a spade a spade and has basically printed what we are all thinking. Its so bloody hard to call this one.

In fairness a 4 year old could tell you that whatever team concedes the least will win.

I expect something a bit more from an expert columnist. There is very little analysis at all in that article.

sean mac

Rightwing wrote: »

If Tipp bring their A game, they will blow them out of the water. That's the only issue as far as I'm concerned.

You clearly have no understanding of championship games between munsters big 2 to come out with this remark. Neither team has or will blow the other out of the water ffs. Limerick is it your from? a big county rejoicing their recent all Ireland win in 1973............tipp and cork don't do moral victories

adrian522

Why do people have to have a dig at a person's county on this forum all the time. It's idiotic, why can't we have a debate without resorting to this?

DoctaDee

Ok, I've previously asked politely to keep the trolling/sniping away for the sake of the thread - Anything further and it's a ban til next week

Mountainlad

menace404 wrote: »

I would like to see anyone try and sum it up better. I don't think there has ever been such a high profile AI semi final where the teams are distinctly level pegging. Even the bookies cannot separate the two and that should tell everyone something. Some journalists are so stuck for ways to write about this that they are regurgitating all historical pieces/records/memoirs/autobiographies etc that we see almost every year in Munster when they play.

He has simply called a spade a spade and has basically printed what we are all thinking. Its so bloody hard to call this one.

The team that concedes the least...in other words the team that scores the most.

Another way of putting it is the winning team will win.

Right thanks John, a pay cheque well earned.

GoldFour4

Didn't realise until recently that the semi finals are being shown on both Sky and RTE. It'sa great way to advertise the game at it's highest level and keep the natives happy!

I really don't know which way this will go on Sunday, almost to the point that I wish I could be watching it from a neutral perspective. It has game of the year potential written all over it but (and I say this as a Tipp man) I'd be worried about us conceding a soft goal or two early on and Cork having the class to keep that gap between the sides for 50-60 minutes. You never really know with the Tipperary forwards. Lar Corbetts performances as of late have been hugely encouraging though which adds even more to what can be a lethal attack.

Browney7

sean mac wrote: »

You clearly have no understanding of championship games between munsters big 2 to come out with this remark. Neither team has or will blow the other out of the water ffs. Limerick is it your from? a big county rejoicing their recent all Ireland win in 1973............tipp and cork don't do moral victories

Why don't you enlighten us all with your wisdom as to why it won't be the case instead of making yourself look foolish with a post you'd expect from a five year old that has discovered the wonders of google to find a few irrelevent facts?

Cork have improved their defence since the all Ireland last year but the Tipp forwards could catch fire on Sunday with Bonner, bubbles, callinan and love him or hate him Corbett is lightening quick.

Woodlock was a big loss for Tipp against limerick on day one this year. Wouldn't be surprised to see two sweepers on Sunday.

Think Cork will shade it on Sunday though.

Figsy32

Browney7 wrote: »

Cork have improved their defence since the all Ireland last year but the Tipp forwards could catch fire on Sunday with Bonner, bubbles, callinan and love him or hate him Corbett is lightening quick.

Woodlock was a big loss for Tipp against limerick on day one this year. Wouldn't be surprised to see two sweepers on Sunday.

Think Cork will shade it on Sunday though.

Sweepers will suit Cork beautifully IMO as it means Bonnar can be man marked, Ellis can play his preferred role as free man and the threat of Callinan may be neutralised as Shane O'Neill can mark him without playing as a traditional full back. However fast Corbett is, Stevie Mc won't be too far behind him for pace.

I'd be much more worried if Tipp go 15 on 15. Presume they'll do a bit of both with Noël McGrath dropping in and out.

robbiezero

Figsy32 wrote: »

Sweepers will suit Cork beautifully IMO as it means Bonnar can be man marked, Ellis can play his preferred role as free man and the threat of Callinan may be neutralised as Shane O'Neill can mark him without playing as a traditional full back. However fast Corbett is, Stevie Mc won't be too far behind him for pace.

I'd be much more worried if Tipp go 15 on 15. Presume they'll do a bit of both with Noël McGrath dropping in and out.

Why would you man mark Bonnar? He does a lot of his best work when Tipp don't have the ball and I'm not sure man-marking him would have much impact on how he plays his game.

Figsy32

robbiezero wrote: »

Why would you man mark Bonnar? He does a lot of his best work when Tipp don't have the ball and I'm not sure man-marking him would have much impact on how he plays his game.

Not necessarily man mark him I suppose but it allows us to have Joyce keep tabs on him and track his runs from deep while still having protection in front of the full back line with Ellis sweeping.

If Ellis plays the traditional centre back he's left with a decision whether to track him or hold his position. Stick or twist type situation. Cork got on terrible trouble in the AI final last year with Brian Murphy keeping Tony Kelly quiet from centre back, but left oceans of space for O'Donnell, McGrath et al.

Zardoz

Tickets seem to be selling very well for the match ,anyone know the expected attendance ?

The road to Dublin could be very busy Sunday morning .
Last year I struggled to get parking at the Red Cow for the Cork-Dublin semi so expecting bedlam this year with the extra Tipp traffic.

Rightwing

Zardoz wrote: »

Tickets seem to be selling very well for the match ,anyone know the expected attendance ?

The road to Dublin could be very busy Sunday morning .
Last year I struggled to get parking at the Red Cow for the Cork-Dublin semi so expecting bedlam this year with the extra Tipp traffic.

In the region of 60,000. Not selling as well as they had thought.

glued

If Cahill plays then I think we'll win.

sean mac

Browney7 wrote: »

Why don't you enlighten us all with your wisdom as to why it won't be the case instead of making yourself look foolish with a post you'd expect from a five year old that has discovered the wonders of google to find a few irrelevent facts?

Cork have improved their defence since the all Ireland last year but the Tipp forwards could catch fire on Sunday with Bonner, bubbles, callinan and love him or hate him Corbett is lightening quick.

Woodlock was a big loss for Tipp against limerick on day one this year. Wouldn't be surprised to see two sweepers on Sunday.

Think Cork will shade it on Sunday though.

Tipp have the weakest midfield of the four semi finalist - weakest by a good but. Tipp also have a very weak keeper as highlighted by donal og in his article this week. If cahill is out a huge loss, cork will win this match by 3-5 points as they have a far more settled team, far superior midfield, far superior keeper and better forwards. And despite having an appalling underage record over the last 15 years will end up winning this all Ireland, proving once again in hurling in particular tradition trumps underage development every time

glued

sean mac wrote: »

Tipp have the weakest midfield of the four semi finalist - weakest by a good but. Tipp also have a very weak keeper as highlighted by donal og in his article this week. If cahill is out a huge loss, cork will win this match by 3-5 points as they have a far more settled team, far superior midfield, far superior keeper and better forwards. And despite having an appalling underage record over the last 15 years will end up winning this all Ireland, proving once again in hurling in particular tradition trumps underage development every time

From reading this you better tell Tipperary that they shouldn't bother turning up on Sunday.

sean mac

glued wrote: »

From reading this you better tell Tipperary that they shouldn't bother turning up on Sunday.

I believe they are a better team and I am sure a tipp man could argue for his team. I don't believe in sitting on the fence like so many pundits I believe in the team and the management group with them.
If tipp win then fair play to them,however I stick with the prediction that cork will win

Mountainlad

If I hear tradition again I'm throwing my laptop throw the window!

Rightwing

Mountainlad wrote: »

If I hear tradition again I'm throwing my laptop throw the window!

Indeed. Better team on the day will win, Clare proved that last year, as they blasted Cork's 'tradition' into oblivion.

sean mac

If ye don't think tradition counts for a huge amount in a conservative sporting organisation like the GAA ye are living on mars lads. Tradition counts for a huge amount, hence why the big 3 are left in this years championship despite the medias hyping up of the alleged equalisation of the championship. 1 all Ireland out of the last 15 won by the big 3, 2014 will be the same and 8 out of 10 of the rest will be won by cork, tipp and Kilkenny also.

Rightwing

sean mac wrote: »

If ye don't think tradition counts for a huge amount in a conservative sporting organisation like the GAA ye are living on mars lads. Tradition counts for a huge amount, hence why the big 3 are left in this years championship despite the medias hyping up of the alleged equalisation of the championship. 1 all Ireland out of the last 15 won by the big 3, 2014 will be the same and 8 out of 10 of the rest will be won by cork, tipp and Kilkenny also.

They just happen to be the best.

Look at Clare at underage, no tradition, yet they are hoovering up the AIs.

sean mac

Rightwing wrote: »

They just happen to be the best.

Look at Clare at underage, no tradition, yet they are hoovering up the AIs.

Best u21 team I have ever seen and they deserve every success, can they translate it into senior? last year of course they did, but that team should be winning more and I just wonder will they with the current set up they have?
This years defence hinted at trouble ahead for them I think

Rightwing

sean mac wrote: »

Best u21 team I have ever seen and they deserve every success, can they translate it into senior? last year of course they did, but that team should be winning more and I just wonder will they with the current set up they have?
This years defence hinted at trouble ahead for them I think

They won't win as much as say if they were from KK, because the strength in depth may not be there. I'd say they'll get at least 1 more senior AI though.

A manager is huge too, probably the most important cog of all. JBM really has brought cork back from the brink. Then you have Cody, KK certainly wouldn't have dominated to the same extent without him . Murphy with the galway minors another example.

Mountainlad

sean mac wrote: »

If ye don't think tradition counts for a huge amount in a conservative sporting organisation like the GAA ye are living on mars lads. Tradition counts for a huge amount, hence why the big 3 are left in this years championship despite the medias hyping up of the alleged equalisation of the championship. 1 all Ireland out of the last 15 won by the big 3, 2014 will be the same and 8 out of 10 of the rest will be won by cork, tipp and Kilkenny also.

Disagree on that last point.

Just as a matter of interest though, how is Cork beating Tipp traditions prevailing? They have won 37 championship games against each other each.

Since 1970 Cork have won 10 all irelands, Tipp 5. That accounts for the difference + 1 between them so you could even say Cork's tradition is more recent. Anyway, that's more to highlight tradition as being allowed of guff more than anything else.


Seriously, I don't get how people think that fellas in winning games in the 1960s is relevant today just because the lads out there today where the same coloured jerseys.


Cork's underage success may have dried a little bit in terms of silverware, but it's not like they're getting a pasting every game they go out in. Took Waterford (all ireland minor champs) to extra time last year. Tokk Tipp u21 in 2010 (all ireland champs) to extra time. Took Limerick in 2011 to extra time as well. The fact is the County can go throw that kind of spell and still produce Senior hurlers because its 5 times the size of Clare and Waterford, who in the last 5 years are the two most successful Minor Counties in Munster (though Limerick are coming into the reckoning now in fairness). It's to be expected that they might not even have their best team out every year.

Other teams find it difficult to pick their best teams with a much smaller pick. How many hurling clubs in Cork? 140? More? Very difficult to find your best team under those circumstances.

You might call it tradition that Tipp always produce hurling teams, it's more demographic. The biggest town has no more than 23,000 in it's environs, probably less (and funnily enough, to add to my next point, is actually a pretty barren spot for Senior hurlers). It's made up mainly of villages and small towns, where there is a gaa pitch in every village. Small communities in Ireland generally have GAA as their main sport. It's a hurling County, and has a big population considering so it has no City or really big town.

Counties like Limerick and Waterford would have cities where soccer and rugby would be very popular, just the nature of larger urban areas.





Now that, might have gone off topic a bit. I just have an axe to grind with the tradition nonsense and 'blood and bandage/blue and gold' nonsense that comes out every time they play. It's a great rivalry, but the basis of everyone's analysis of these games should be on whose taking the field on Sunday and too often commentators obsess over the 50's/60s/70s etc without actually offering any sort of insight into where the game will be won and lost on Sunday.

sean mac

The 1960s is part of it, but look at the last 15 years the most recent in gaa history - outside of clares fully deserved win last year cork, kk or tipp won the all Ireland and the same for this year. I don't see any change in this going forward despite the improvement of certain other counties like clare, Dublin wexford for example.

Rightwing

sean mac wrote: »

The 1960s is part of it, but look at the last 15 years the most recent in gaa history - outside of clares fully deserved win last year cork, kk or tipp won the all Ireland and the same for this year. I don't see any change in this going forward despite the improvement of certain other counties like clare, Dublin wexford for example.

Well as far as I see it, it's KK who have completely dominated since Cody came along 16 years ago or thereabouts, and everyone else is feeding off scraps. When KK decline a bit more, I would say there are AIs there for a lot of counties.

Mountainlad

sean mac wrote: »

The 1960s is part of it, but look at the last 15 years the most recent in gaa history - outside of clares fully deserved win last year cork, kk or tipp won the all Ireland and the same for this year. I don't see any change in this going forward despite the improvement of certain other counties like clare, Dublin wexford for example.

I'd happily take any mans money that would bet against 5/15 being won by Counties outside of the three named.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

digzy

I see in the indo that hawk eyed will be off if sunday's game. Anyone know why?

Rightwing

digzy wrote: »

I see in the info that hawk eyed will be off if today's game. Anyone know why?

Who is playing today?

Hawk eye seems like a waste of money.

Stoner

can't wait for this game. Delighted to get my hands on a couple of tickets. I can't make my mind up what way it will go, its a bit of a lazy comment but I think its applicable all the same but I think it will come down to who wants it more and I think Cork want it more this year.

kksaints

Rightwing wrote: »

In the region of 60,000. Not selling as well as they had thought.

Almost sure I read something after the quarter finals that thought that tomorrows match would be a sell out.

Hotfail.com

Rightwing wrote: »

In the region of 60,000. Not selling as well as they had thought.

A lot could sell today and tomorrow though.. Hopefully...

Zardoz

kksaints wrote: »

Almost sure I read something after the quarter finals that thought that tomorrows match would be a sell out.

I think that was optimistic thinking by the GAA .
There will be a very good crowd though