Cech or Courtois?

bucketybuck

I could have posted this in the Chelsea thread but I think its an interesting question in a wider sense, what would any club do in this situation.

Chelsea currently have two of the worlds top goalkeepers on their books, 22 year old prodigy Thibaut Courtois and 32 year old club legend Petr Cech. Both are international keepers at the top of their game and its hard to imagine either accepting just a spot on the bench.

Who should Chelsea make their number one goalkeeper this season?

Vinz Mesrine

I think it makes sense to keep Courtois. If you sell him and keep Cech then in 3/4 years you are in the position of having to replace your goalkeeper. Keep Courtois and you are sorted for the next 15 years.

GavRedKing

Courtois.

Courtois is the future for Chelsea, Cech is a club legend and I've just said it in the Chelsea thread that i think hes the reason we won the UCL that night, saving 3 of the 6 penalties including one that Drogba gave away in ET.

Courtois is nearly exactly 10 years younger than Cech and at a similar age to when Cech made his Chelsea debut and if you were to look at both at the same age Courtois is ahead of anything Cech had done at 22.

Both have 2 years left on their deals so Jose has a really tough call to make, given that Schwarzer has signed a new 1 year extension I'd expect Cech or Courtois to be sold either at the end of this window or in Janaury when one of them has got the hump.

You can forget De Bruyne, Lukaku, Sturridge any other young talent we sold, selling Courtois would be the hardest to replace.

Cech has arguably 5 years at the top, hes picking up niggling injuries more frequently now but at 32 he does have a few years left in him easily.

elefant

Courtois was absolutely incredible for Atletico last season. His consistency for such a young guy, in a such a high-pressure position, with all the expectations that Atletico would collapse, was amazing. Without him there's no way Atletico would have won the league. In so many games he pulled off save after save, came out to make great catches off corners to take the pressure off, completely dominated his goal area... at times he actually seemed unbeatable.

For me he is, along with Neuer, the best in the world. Considering his age, I actually wouldn't pick any goalkeeper in the world ahead of him.

Too Tough To Die

Courtois is the best in the world imo, already.

Mushy

Courtois.

GavRedKing says exactly what I think!

cournioni

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Courtois is the best in the world imo, already.

Totally agree. Some would say Neuer is but Courtois is far more reliable.

GavRedKing

I'd probably prefer Neuer right now but hes 6 years older than Courtois and I imagine the slight gap between the two will close in the coming years but at 22 there isnt many, if any GK's in his age group of 18-25 at his level, losing him would be much worse than Lukaku IMO.

Shanotheslayer

Courtouis all day for me.

population

Courtois. Cech is not the keeper he used to be. He is still a great keeper but Courtois is probably the best out there right now.

Morzadec

It's harsh on Cech who is still a very good keeper, but I can only echo what has already been said.

Courtois is hands down the best goalkeeper in the league imo

hjkl

Both are in the top 5 keepers in the world right now imo.

hjkl

Both are in the top 5 keepers in the world right now imo.

Oranage2

Tough choice, for sentimental reasons I'd give Cech one one season as first choice keeper, still one of the best.

Try get Courtois to sign a long term contract and loan him out in January.

Cech is past his best.

Time to pass the baton

CSF

Love Courtois but Neuer is almost inhuman. There is no beating Neuer.

Have to get rid of Cech though, unless Cech is willing to play 2nd fiddle, which he won't be.

GavRedKing

Part of me wants Cech to beat the EPL clean sheet record while playing for us, its currently held by David James, this year and he can do it in 10 games but I cant see Courtois sticking around for a charity case like that.

Like Lukaku and De Bruyne, Courtois has been out spoken about wanting to be starting when hes at Chelsea but unlike the the last two hes world class right now and has a rightful claim to be starting.

EPL clean sheets

David James - Games 572- Clean Sheets-170 Average-0.29
Petr Cech - Games 323- Clean Sheets-161 Average-0.50

Thats a brilliant record from Cech surpassing pretty much every modern day keeper in the league, making him the best GK to ever play in the EPL, IMO.

For a comparrison,
Schmeichels record is Games 310 CS 129 Avg 0.41
Van Der Sar Games 314 CS 134 Avg 0.32

Had VDS joined Utd after leaving Juventus his record would be much closer to Cechs IMO.

SM01

It's very hard to choose but if I had to make the decision I'd start the season with Cech for the league and champions league. I think the dip he took after the Hunt clash was protracted but he clawed himself back to being one of the best (Premiership team of the year this year provides some vindication), he's hugely experienced, knows the premiership and what to expect from strikers/referees and has an established and solid working relationship with the Terry, Cahill, Ivanovic, Azzpukdhasfsklfhsdzz etc.

Courtois is a superb keeper and appears to be a very cool head under pressure. If he were chosen ahead of Cech it wouldn't bother me really as there's so little between them. He does need to be managed carefully so that he won't agitate for a move so I can see the rationale for him being first choice too.

GavRedKing

Also, both Cech and Courtois have 2 years left on their current deals, its a risky game picking one over the other given the lengths of their contracts right now.

bucketybuck

Interesting that there seems to be an unanimous choice for Courtois, though its probably the choice I would make also.

There are some really good arguments for keeping Cech, he is top class but importantly he is also an integral part of the defence in a way that Courtois isn't, he has played with those guys for years after all.

I think if Chelsea were to focus on this season alone they would stick with Cech as the best option for success this season. But I guess they can't ignore the long term, and that means Courtois.

I think if money for the club was a factor Courtois is by far the more sellable asset but this is Chelsea so I guess that doesn't come into it. I wonder who would be in the market for Cech though, and how much money he would raise? Some club could get a bargain there!

GavRedKing

bucketybuck wrote: »

Interesting that there seems to be an unanimous choice for Courtois, though its probably the choice I would make also.

There are some really good arguments for keeping Cech, he is top class but importantly he is also an integral part of the defence in a way that Courtois isn't, he has played with those guys for years after all.

I think if Chelsea were to focus on this season alone they would stick with Cech as the best option for success this season. But I guess they can't ignore the long term, and that means Courtois.

I think if money for the club was a factor Courtois is by far the more sellable asset but this is Chelsea so I guess that doesn't come into it. I wonder who would be in the market for Cech though, and how much money he would raise? Some club could get a bargain there!

If cech was to be sold I'd have guessed it would have been PSG or Monaco, hes easily better than their current crop and hes played in France before. Cech is meant to be on 90k which is pocket change for thsoe clubs.

Maybe Real Madrid, hes worked with Carlo Ancelotti before and I think hes better right now than Lopez and Casillas.

Not many suitors in the EPL, Utd, City, Arsenal are sorted, Lloris signed a new deal with Spurs. Liverpool? cant see them coming in for Cech.

Italy maybe?

KombuchaMshroom

GavRedKing wrote: »

Part of me wants Cech to beat the EPL clean sheet record while playing for us, its currently held by David James, this year and he can do it in 10 games but I cant see Courtois sticking around for a charity case like that.

Like Lukaku and De Bruyne, Courtois has been out spoken about wanting to be starting when hes at Chelsea but unlike the the last two hes world class right now and has a rightful claim to be starting.

EPL clean sheets

David James - Games 572- Clean Sheets-170 Average-0.29
Petr Cech - Games 323- Clean Sheets-161 Average-0.50

Thats a brilliant record from Cech surpassing pretty much every modern day keeper in the league, making him the best GK to ever play in the EPL, IMO.

For a comparrison,
Schmeichels record is Games 310 CS 129 Avg 0.41
Van Der Sar Games 314 CS 134 Avg 0.32

Had VDS joined Utd after leaving Juventus his record would be much closer to Cechs IMO.

To be fair comparing stats like that isn't really a true indication of who is better because the types of teams they are playing for and the defence in front of them needs to be considered, plus van der sar's average is over 0.42 based on those figures.

Anyway that is very off topic, id agree with everything else you have said, Courtois is brilliant for such a young goalkeeper, make him first choice now and who knows just how good he could be 6 or 7 years down the line.

Beasty

If a younger keeper is good enough I would always play him ahead of the more experienced guy. Younger keepers tend to be more prone to spells when things don't go their way - that leaves the experienced guy to come in when needed (and to play when the first choice is being given a break). That's a much better way to build the confidence of a keeper in my view. So it would be Courtois ahead of Cech for me

GavRedKing

I've said it in the Chelsea thread that I'd nearly start Cech for the Burnley away game, our 1st game, as hes used to the league, knows what to expect and I'd expect Burnley to really put it up yto us on the opening day.

Regardless, whoever is on the bench come January is likely to be sold IMO.

Al Capwned

I would play Courtois right now.

And Gav, I know you're biased (as am I) but Cech isn't the best keeper to play in the Premier League.
He's a brilliant brilliant keeper, and still one of the best in the world.

A tough decision for Mourinho, but he has been known to make difficult decisions regarding goalkeepers in the past.

grumpymunster

It depends for me off the bat I would say Courtois but as he only has two years left he does need to be signed for a lot longer before I would leave Petr go.

As Gav has pointed out Petr is so close to the record of clean sheets it would be nice to give him league and Courtois cup games until he passes the record. Not too much sentiment is football though.

I would agree (also perhaps a little biased) that Cech is the best ever PL keeper

GavRedKing

Al Capwned wrote: »

I would play Courtois right now.

And Gav, I know you're biased (as am I) but Cech isn't the best keeper to play in the Premier League.
He's a brilliant brilliant keeper, and still one of the best in the world.

A tough decision for Mourinho, but he has been known to make difficult decisions regarding goalkeepers in the past.

Maybe that call is for another thread, we'll just end up splitting hairs anyway :pac:

Ya, I've no doubt if Jose reckons Courtois is better right now Cech will be axed.

Hes dropped Cudicini and Casillas notably, although for Casillas to be dropped by two managers in a row says a lot about him IMO.

Anyway if I was picking a GK for my fantasy team I'd be careful before picking Cech or Courtois.

GavRedKing

grumpymunster wrote: »

It depends for me off the bat I would say Courtois but as he only has two years left he does need to be signed for a lot longer before I would leave Petr go.

As Gav has pointed out Petr is so close to the record of clean sheets it would be nice to give him league and Courtois cup games until he passes the record. Not too much sentiment is football though.

Cech for the league, Courtois for the UCL/FA cup/League Cup

grumpymunster

Not too sure where Courtois says he would like Cech to stay but according to Skysports he did in this interview.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11668/9403019?

If so sign them both up to long term and let the best one win, which I think would be Courtois.

bucketybuck

GavRedKing wrote: »

Cech for the league, Courtois for the UCL/FA cup/League Cup

Can you really see either of those keepers being happy to split duties like that?

Courtois just won La Liga and played a European cup final, I really can't see him being happy to play the role of "young lad getting cup games". It must be very close to a use him or lose him situation.

GavRedKing

grumpymunster wrote: »

Not too sure where Courtois says he would like Cech to stay but according to Skysports he did in this interview.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11668/9403019?

If so sign them both up to long term and let the best one win, which I think would be Courtois.

I think because Courtois said he can learn alot from him and Schwarzer they're putting 2+2 together to get 4 1/2. Courtois isnt going to say he wants Cech gone so he can be number 1 :pac:

bucketybuck wrote: »

Can you really see either of those keepers being happy to split duties like that?

Courtois just won La Liga and played a European cup final, I really can't see him being happy to play the role of "young lad getting cup games". It must be very close to a use him or lose him situation.

Nope and I reckon if Courtois is benched he'll be sold in January and Cech will get an extension, although if its Cech on the bench it'll be a carbon copy.

Neither will want to be benched and i know Jose said the competition is brilliant for them but starting the 1st league on the bench will see ya sit there all season unless the other guy gets injured/suspended/f**ks up majorly.

Al Capwned

Agree about whoever starts in August will most likely go in Jan.

Similarities to Hart/Given at City a few years back.

Liam O

I think competition like this is a negative for a keeper. I think most goalkeepers perform at their best when they know that they are first choice for the foreseeable future. When that's not the case then every mistake is magnified hugely.

Zico

Keepers are ego maniacs and the management of them is a tricky scenario.

Alex Ferguson ****ed it up repeatedly.

Jose Mourinho has been similalry problematic in identifying quality goalkeepers.

Vinz Mesrine

Zico wrote: »

Keepers are ego maniacs and the management of them is a tricky scenario.

Alex Ferguson ****ed it up repeatedly.

Jose Mourinho has been similalry problematic in identifying quality goalkeepers.

Wow, what nonsense.

Lukker-

Zico wrote: »

Keepers are ego maniacs and the management of them is a tricky scenario.

Alex Ferguson ****ed it up repeatedly.

Jose Mourinho has been similalry problematic in identifying quality goalkeepers.

I don't really get this post. Ferguson brought 2 of the top 5 keepers to play in the league to United IMO, in VDS and Schmeichel.

Mourinho brought Cech to Chelsea and dropped a very popular and talented keeper Cudicini and Cech developed into the finest keeper ever to play for Chelsea. Julio Cesar in the season Inter won the treble was arguably the best keeper in the world that season.

I'd be sad to see Cech go, especially because he deserves the clean sheet record. He's the fastest keeper ever to reach 100 clean sheets, from 2004-2006 before the injury he was the finest keeper I've ever seen play.

Panthro

Zico wrote: »

Keepers are ego maniacs and the management of them is a tricky scenario.

Yeah, Petr comes across as a right aul bollocks alright.

Not.

Pro. F

Better to take decisive action now imo. Courtois is the better keeper and one of the best in the world right now (the outright best imo), make him first choice and extend his contract as soon as possible. Don't do anything to risk losing Courtois. Hedging the choice by trying to keep both around is not worth it.

DildoFaggins

Courtois easily just came of a League title and CL Final aswell as Spanish Cup.


I'd say he should do what AVB did with Lloris and Friedel, Just gradually faze in Courtois.
If Cech doesn't like that and he wants to leave Napoli/Monaco are good destinations both in CL in dire need of a GK, but they are a bit of a stepdown perhaps he waits and sees what Real are doing or waits for Buffon to retire.

GavRedKing

Lukker- wrote: »

I don't really get this post. Ferguson brought 2 of the top 5 keepers to play in the league to United IMO, in VDS and Schmeichel.

Mourinho brought Cech to Chelsea and dropped a very popular and talented keeper Cudicini and Cech developed into the finest keeper ever to play for Chelsea. Julio Cesar in the season Inter won the treble was arguably the best keeper in the world that season.

I'd be sad to see Cech go, especially because he deserves the clean sheet record. He's the fastest keeper ever to reach 100 clean sheets, from 2004-2006 before the injury he was the finest keeper I've ever seen play.

Ranieri brought in Cech before jose came in

Jose just decided to play him. :cool:

Gbear

GavRedKing wrote: »

Thats a brilliant record from Cech surpassing pretty much every modern day keeper in the league, making him the best GK to ever play in the EPL, IMO.

I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but Cech is 1 part of a 5 man defence and you could even argue, an 11 man team given the sort of work Mourinho likes his front 6 to get through.

Chelsea have been the best defensive team over the past 10 years. Cech was part of that, unquestionably, but you can't give him all the credit.

I don't think there's any meaningful way to categorise a keeper as being the best given different styles, strengths and even the football culture of the day.

Mezcita

Can't see the point in having two world class keepers, one of whom might only play the occasional game. Sell Cech for a still decent sum and bring in a decent youngster.