Novice Drivers.

Daveysil15

JC01 wrote: »

Meh, the standerd of driving in this countey is generally diabolical anyways

I don't think its that bad tbh. Ever been to Italy or Czech Republic? A million times worse.

Jester252

N plates are going to be impossible to enforce. A guard would have to run the licence number to check if the driver has under two years experience. The amount of time that takes at a check point, if they still exist, would make it not worth doing. So like the L-plates, you can drive around without them as long as you don't do some thing stupid to flag your car for more than a five second look.

JC01

Daveysil15 wrote: »

I don't think its that bad tbh. Ever been to Italy or Czech Republic? A million times worse.

Yep iv done thousands of miles across a big chunk of Europe. There seems to be a lot more outright aggressiveness on some European roads, Poland, Spain and Italy spring to mind. But my main problem with Irish drivers is downright incompetence; inability to use lanes on motorways, inability to correctly use roundabouts, total ignorance of indicators, people toddling along at 50k ina 80-100 zone, and the general stupid decisions and total lack of awareness and intuition I see on the roads every day.

Dempsey

9bred4 wrote: »

When a big 3 litre comes up against a college kid's 1.2 you tell me.

You think I don't? I'm the one that does. Never have a problem when I drive against other learners or those with lesser cars. But come up against the road "elite" and all of a sudden things change, the same guys are jeering on the N plate. Why not start every person with the N until the 2 years passes for them also?

Stand your ground, they have more to lose!

I never had a problem with car size, you seem fixated by it

Half Rhodesian

dont know about this really. dont think it really matters tbh. most drivers in ireland dont know how to even use a roundabout in any case, from my experience. Regardless of years on the road or if they have a 'L' 'N' or any other letter of the alphabet stuck to their car.

Shakespeare's Sister

Isn't it just like the L plate? I'm not seeing the big deal - what am I missing?

we'llallhavetea

I cannot see the benefit of any plates, L or N. You're either watching the road and other drivers or you're not? Any car on the road can be unpredictable, you're supposed to be cautious of them all.

AudreyHepburn

While I can see the thinking behind the N plate to a point I don't see how treating new drivers as if they are the only problem will solve anything.

The worst drivers I've encounter are those with years of experience who refuse to indicate, can't use roundabouts, insist on driving with their feet to the floor and think that you HAVe on or over the speed limit.


Then have the nerve to get PO'd at me when as a learner driver I make a mistake or don't do something as quickly or easily as they would.


Instead of infinite numbers of plates I think you should have to retake the driving test every few years to ensure you can actually drive.


More years on the road doesn't equate with being a better driver.

beks101

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

A driver who has recently obtained their full licence is still inexperienced. They've reached a certainly level of competency, but it doesn't give them carte blanche to go tearing around the roads.

Oh LOLZ at the parochialism and Irishness of this.

Bully for you for taking newly licensed drivers down a notch or two. It's far from tearing around the roads as if they own them that they were reared! The cheek of these drivers for motoring along our Irish roads as if they have a right to be there. So what if they have some form of official document or laminated ID card issued by a state body that explicitly outlines their competency to drive solo on public roads. Sure everyone knows they're a safety hazard. They probably caused the recession too, these spoilt Celtic Tiger cubs. Back in my day #blahblahblahBLAH

Vandango

Quite a few of the so called experienced drivers in Ireland could do with some sort of plate. Something which signifies that they are exempt from indicating, yielding or using roundabouts correctly.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

Have to agree with some of the posts in this thread.

I dont care what category,

All the way A, B, C and D

If youve never sat a driving test then you should be made sit one. I dont care for age or how you got the licence

But with this the driving test for everyone should be a bit longer and include the following

●Parking
●Driving on a Motorway/Dual Carriage way including correct use of lanes/indicators and blind spots.
●obstacle course for tight situations and also car parks etc.

On all categories.

Yes i do mean allow learners on a motorway under the supervision of an ADI instructor only while on lesson only.

Also retesting during a persons life. Be it every 20 - 40 years.

Riesen_Meal

I am one of the prïcks who never had an L plate on my car after my first month of driving, too many idiots blasted me off the road and made me feel less comfortable if I was driving as normal, as I had L plates on - they would be constantly overtaking me and the like even if I was doing the limit...

I drove for over 6 years on a provisional licence, with no l plates up, have a 6 year no claims and have never been in any major incidents on the road....

I passed my test a few months ago on my third time sitting it, so I don't have to comply to this N plate thing... (not that I would have anyway tbh)

I think its ridiculous, and it offers no reward for having sat and completed your test successfully, you still feel like you have a learner plate up...

I don't think the cops will enforce this one unless they can't use common sense, the same way they in most cases don't enforce the driving alone on a provisional licence "law"

I have been through heaps of checkpoints and breathalysed etc all with a provisional, and the cops never once questioned me for being on my provisional and not having a full licence...

Lucky I passed my test when I did!

Ave Sodalis

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

Have to agree with some of the posts in this thread.

I dont care what category,

All the way A, B, C and D

If youve never sat a driving test then you should be made sit one. I dont care for age or how you got the licence

But with this the driving test for everyone should be a bit longer and include the following

●Parking
●Driving on a Motorway/Dual Carriage way including correct use of lanes/indicators and blind spots.
●obstacle course for tight situations and also car parks etc.

On all categories.

Yes i do mean allow learners on a motorway under the supervision of an ADI instructor only while on lesson only.

Also retesting during a persons life. Be it every 20 - 40 years.

Except a large amount of people are nowhere near a motorway and would have to drive several hours just to get to one to practice on.

Manc Red

Stupid idea. They barely enforce the L plates so how this is going to work I do not know.

Pherekydes

Vandango wrote: »

Quite a few of the so called experienced drivers in Ireland could do with some sort of plate. Something which signifies that they are exempt from indicating, yielding or using roundabouts correctly.

Taxi plates?

Capt'n Midnight

Deleted User wrote: »

Perhaps they should just build a parallel road network for all the bad drivers and leave the rest of the network to those who understand the rotr!
It may be a lonely road!

Just use the left lane on a three lane motorway unless you are overtaking. The other two lanes are for the idiots.

Capt'n Midnight

Lennon Brave Bib wrote: »

Generally other road users are empathetic to the L plate driver and have more patience with them. There are some asshats who do not, and to be honest, they should be punished for their contempt.

Shenshen wrote: »

When we had L plates on our car as my husband was teaching me how to drive, he almost instantly noticed that other road users started to treat him a whole lot less courteous, were cutting him up more often and tailgated him more frequently.

If that was happening when he was on his own in the car then it's because he shouldn't have been wearing L plates.

If there are two people in a car with L plates then I'll make allowances , anyone who doesn't deserves penalty points.

Pet hate of mine. If there is only one person then I expect them to be driving perfectly, exactly as if they were doing the test because that's an L plate means you are self certifying when not under instruction. In the UK you would get done for driving on L plates if you had a full license.

Capt'n Midnight

Couldn't we give L plates to all BMX 3 series, Yaris and Taxi drivers ?

Pherekydes

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Couldn't we give L plates to all BMX 3 series, Yaris and Taxi drivers ?

Would you find many BMXes on motorways?

pickarooney

Fieldog wrote: »

I am one of the prïcks who never had an L plate on my car after my first month of driving, too many idiots blasted me off the road and made me feel less comfortable if I was driving as normal, as I had L plates on - they would be constantly overtaking me and the like even if I was doing the limit...

I drove for over 6 years on a provisional licence, with no l plates up, have a 6 year no claims and have never been in any major incidents on the road....

I passed my test a few months ago on my third time sitting it, so I don't have to comply to this N plate thing... (not that I would have anyway tbh)

I think its ridiculous, and it offers no reward for having sat and completed your test successfully, you still feel like you have a learner plate up...

I don't think the cops will enforce this one unless they can't use common sense, the same way they in most cases don't enforce the driving alone on a provisional licence "law"

I have been through heaps of checkpoints and breathalysed etc all with a provisional, and the cops never once questioned me for being on my provisional and not having a full licence...

Lucky I passed my test when I did!

It beggars belief that the state sanctions people driving without a licence for six years and having failed a simple test twice...

wexie

pickarooney wrote: »

It beggars belief that the state sanctions people driving without a licence for six years and having failed a simple test twice...

I've always thought it a bizarre situation that you can go for your test (in your own car), fail miserably, thereby proving you shouldn't really be on the road unsupervised......and then drive home......

Manc Red

wexie wrote: »

I've always thought it a bizarre situation that you can go for your test (in your own car), fail miserably, thereby proving you shouldn't really be on the road unsupervised......and then drive home......

I'm pretty sure you can't. You need a qualified driver sitting on with you to go to and from the test center.

Manc Red

.

Newly qualified motorists caught driving without an 'N' plate will escape penalty points for several months due to a delay in installing the offence on the garda Pulse system.



The 'novice' plate was introduced last week as part of a raft of new road safety measures. But it is unlikely to carry points until much later this year, the Irish Independent has learned.

Learner drivers failing to display 'L' plates, or driving while unaccompanied by an experienced motorist, will also avoid points due to the same delay.

In the meantime, both offences will carry fines of up to €1,000, but no penalty points will be awarded.

Work to include the offences on the garda computer system is not expected to take place until November. The delay has been criticised by road safety campaigners, who say that without points there is little to deter newly qualified motorists from breaking the law.

Under the new laws, newly qualified drivers must display 'N' plates for two years after passing their test. The legislation allows for two penalty points to be applied for failing to do so, and four points and a fine if the motorist is convicted in court.

Learner and inexperienced drivers will lose their licences if they accrue seven points.

However, the Department of Transport confirmed it had delayed the roll-out of the penalty points because the garda computer system needs to be updated. Garda sources said updating the system was a significant task, and the next scheduled series of updates are not planned for another four months.

The delay comes against the backdrop of significant criticism of the penalty points system in the past year, with garda whistleblowers and the Garda Inspectorate exposing major shortcomings.

The PARC road safety group has criticised the delay in updating the garda system, and questioned why the new package of measures was being introduced in a piecemeal fashion.

Its founder, Susan Gray, whose husband Stephen died after being knocked down by a learner driver in 2004, said the threat of fines alone was "no deterrent".

She pointed to Department of Justice figures, which showed that while 2,900 learner drivers received a summons for driving without being accompanied in 2013, only 661 were convicted and fined.

The average fine imposed was just €123 and no one received the maximum fine of €1,000.

A senior garda source said that due to the complexity of the Pulse system, upgrades tended to be made on a scheduled basis.

The system may have to come down for a period and this can only be done at a time when there would be the minimum of disruption to normal policing, the source said.

"These updates are not done on a whim or on a daily basis and once installed have to be tested to make sure they work in a live environment," added the source.

A spokesman for the Department of Transport said it had increased penalty points for offences such as speeding and holding a mobile phone while driving from last Friday.

These offences now attract three penalty points instead of two.
- See more at: http://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/nplate-driver-offenders-to-escape-points-for-months-30480871.html#sthash.wOhO4AVK.dpuf

SeanW

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

A driver who has recently obtained their full licence is still inexperienced. They've reached a certainly level of competency, but it doesn't give them carte blanche to go tearing around the roads. The N plate will be a good indicator to other road users that the driver is still inexperienced. It's a wholly positive move.

You obviously have no idea how competent an individual who recently passed a driving test is. As with road users generally, some will be great, some will be rubbish. This is just stupid. As for Novices not having "Carte Blanche to go tearing around the roads" so far, N-platers have no fewer rights than people who've had driving licenses for more than two years, save the new regulatory requirement to wear those dumbass N-plates. They can "go tearing around" as much as an experienced driver can.

Daniel7740 wrote: »

what we really need is a g plate. where g = gobshíte

Preferably for the politicians who legislated for this, the Sir Appleby Humphrey types in the civil service that came up with it. And those that agree with it. And Audi drivers, people that don't know what indicators are for etc.

Capt'n Midnight

Sorry I meant the toys for boys.

No Pants

Dempsey wrote: »

They are L plates and the shipping cost is £12.03 :rolleyes:

Ya, do indeed check your local service station for local availability and pricing. They wont be sold at a loss

Pardon me for not fully researching the availability and pricing of an item I have no interest in.

thelad95

Can you honestly imagine telling some horny 17 year old scrote to stick 'N' plates on the back of his scrotemobile when he goes cruising around the estate blasting out MC Sniffy tunes? THESE PEOPLE HAVE RIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





































































:pac:

No Pants

smellmepower wrote: »

there's so called experienced drivers on the road who've never even sat a theory or full test and had licenses issued to clear a backlog.

They'll all be dead soon enough, so the problem will fix itself.

SweetCaliber

While I understand drivers in cars who passed their tests are required to show them because they are now driving on their own and new to that, why oh why must motorcyclists have to wear them horrible bibs with massive N plates on them as well, they look hideous, I for one will not be wearing it.

stop that now

I passed my test last Friday and have had the n plates on my car since then .i haven't seen one other car with n plates on display since and I wouldn't blame them .I might as well have painted polka dots all over the car because the n is awful looking and can be seen a mile off :$ . Are there any more n plate drivers lurking around ?

Dowl88

stop that now wrote: »

I passed my test last Friday and have had the n plates on my car since then .i haven't seen one other car with n plates on display since and I wouldn't blame them .I might as well have painted polka dots all over the car because the n is awful looking and can be seen a mile off :$ . Are there any more n plate drivers lurking around ?

Didnt drive too long with L plates and dont intend to with N plates. Gives certain drivers road rage. Its ridicolous. Have a dash cam at rear view window and one in front when I had L plates. Its ridicolous. I put them up again for a week a few months ago. And same thing happened. Should see my films

dj jarvis

No Pants wrote: »

Money maker how?

the 600 euro plus i have to spend to get my bike licence , becasue i let it lapse 2 months , thus for some reason WIPING my previous 25 years of motorcycle riding from the system and making me a first time driver , ignoring my wealth of knowledge , i now had to PAY for the Theory test , PAY for IBT training ( i will be teaching the instructor - i rang him and he laughed , "another lad that will run rings around me , im getting hundreds of you guys recently " ,

and then you have to pay for the test , and finally pay for the licence

MONEY MAKER - TA DA

as for wearing a N tabard while driving for 2 years after i pass my test , they can go ask my balls , i will wear it when they make the car drivers wear a big stupid flashing pointy hat - seeing its car drivers that are the cause of more motorcycle deaths than bad driving by bikers :rolleyes:

bikers are FORCED to wear a certain type of clothing becasue of all this pointless MONEY MAKING CRAP - well , funk that , i MIGHT affix it somewhere on the bike if the mood takes me , but being force to wear something i dont want to - NO WAY

i wonder what the food is like in mountjoy :P

No Pants

dj jarvis wrote: »

the 600 euro plus i have to spend to get my bike licence , becasue i let it lapse 2 months , thus for some reason WIPING my previous 25 years of motorcycle riding from the system and making me a first time driver , ignoring my wealth of knowledge , i now had to PAY for the Theory test , PAY for IBT training ( i will be teaching the instructor - i rang him and he laughed , "another lad that will run rings around me , im getting hundreds of you guys recently " ,

and then you have to pay for the test , and finally pay for the licence

MONEY MAKER - TA DA

as for wearing a N tabard while driving for 2 years after i pass my test , they can go ask my balls , i will wear it when they make the car drivers wear a big stupid flashing pointy hat - seeing its car drivers that are the cause of more motorcycle deaths than bad driving by bikers :rolleyes:

bikers are FORCED to wear a certain type of clothing becasue of all this pointless MONEY MAKING CRAP - well , funk that , i MIGHT affix it somewhere on the bike if the mood takes me , but being force to wear something i dont want to - NO WAY

i wonder what the food is like in mountjoy :P

What? Normally when a licence expires, it can be renewed without further training or tests within the following ten years. Has this been changed? :eek:

Diemos

Dowl88 wrote: »

Didnt drive too long with L plates and dont intend to with N plates. Gives certain drivers road rage. Its ridicolous. Have a dash cam at rear view window and one in front when I had L plates. Its ridicolous. I put them up again for a week a few months ago. And same thing happened. Should see my films

My driving instructor in Dublin told me to take mine down and the difference it made was unreal, other cars, esp taxis, bully you if you have L plates up. As soon as I took them down, people (fcuk it let's call a spade a spade, men) stopped acting as aggressive, pulling out in front of me etc.
It did mean that I had to be on my toes at traffic lights etc, as I would be given no time but it was never an issue, taking them down was a great idea.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

Yup... everyone is out to annoy l plate drivers. Never mind the ones that have extra patience for you all and give you extra space.

Personally due to the ignorance of some L drovers i cant wait for the day an L learner has an accident which is their fault when they have no plates up and nobody accompanying them ... summons to court, driving ban, not a hope getting ins etc.

Dowl88

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

Yup... everyone is out to annoy l plate drivers. Never mind the ones that have extra patience for you all and give you extra space.

Personally due to the ignorance of some L drovers i cant wait for the day an L learner has an accident which is their fault when they have no plates up and nobody accompanying them ... summons to court, driving ban, not a hope getting ins etc.

No one said everyone! Wishing someone has an accident, your a lovely person.

Diabhal Beag

Remember when they said they'd be targeting L plate drivers unaccompanied? Aye.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

Dowl88 wrote: »

No one said everyone! Wishing someone has an accident, your a lovely person.

Never wished an accident upon anyone.

dj jarvis

No Pants wrote: »

What? Normally when a licence expires, it can be renewed without further training or tests within the following ten years. Has this been changed? :eek:

yes , it has been changed , i was entitled to an A provisional , but becasue i let my old one lapse , they wipe the slate clean , so i have to start from scratch AGAIN , i would not mind having to sit the test , no problem with that , but to make a person do it from scratch and then wear that feckin N jacket , they can funk right off

that is why the guy who is doing the IBT training said he has had LOADS of 40/50 year old who got caught out as i did , because the RSA did not do the decent thing and inform bike drivers by email by the up coming changes , a simple courtesy.
not everyone seen the ad in the papers , and not all of us hang around licence offices , seeing the licence lapsed.

some would say they did not inform the relevant people so the could fleece them under the new regime , i am tending to think this way myself judging by the amount of bike driver caught out

if it was just me , i would put it down to being an ill informed biker , but the amount is actually staggering , i know in my circle 4 people who have got caught the same

good time to start an IBT training ctr

No Pants

dj jarvis wrote: »

yes , it has been changed , i was entitled to an A provisional , but becasue i let my old one lapse , they wipe the slate clean , so i have to start from scratch AGAIN , i would not mind having to sit the test , no problem with that , but to make a person do it from scratch and then wear that feckin N jacket , they can funk right off

that is why the guy who is doing the IBT training said he has had LOADS of 40/50 year old who got caught out as i did , because the RSA did not do the decent thing and inform bike drivers by email by the up coming changes , a simple courtesy.
not everyone seen the ad in the papers , and not all of us hang around licence offices , seeing the licence lapsed.

some would say they did not inform the relevant people so the could fleece them under the new regime , i am tending to think this way myself judging by the amount of bike driver caught out

if it was just me , i would put it down to being an ill informed biker , but the amount is actually staggering , i know in my circle 4 people who have got caught the same

good time to start an IBT training ctr

You drove for 25 years on a provisional licence?

dj jarvis

No Pants wrote: »

You drove for 25 years on a provisional licence?

yup , they took the 12 pounds , i took the licence - half an hour happy days
you are forgetting it could take nearly TWO years back then to even get a test date , why wait ?

not sure if you rode back then , but it was the done thing , it was encouraged , the cops did not care , the insurance company's did not care , and i could drive the same bikes that a full licence holder could , so why bother ?

No Pants

dj jarvis wrote: »

i let it lapse 2 months , thus for some reason WIPING my previous 25 years of motorcycle riding

I think you left out an additional 60 months.

SeanW

SeanW wrote: »

You obviously have no idea how competent an individual who recently passed a driving test is.

There is a difference between competence and experience.

I remember my driving instructor telling me that until you've done 100k as a driver, you're inexperienced. It's a simple truth that the more you do something, the better you get at it.

You can be a competent newly qualified driver, but until you gain experience, you're still a novice.

Dowl88

Candie wrote: »

There is a difference between competence and experience.

I remember my driving instructor telling me that until you've done 100k as a driver, you're inexperienced. It's a simple truth that the more you do something, the better you get at it.

You can be a competent newly qualified driver, but until you gain experience, you're still a novice.

Some people are naturally better and safer drivers. A Person who did 10k could be 10 times safer than a person who did 100k

Jester252

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

Never wished an accident upon anyone.

Yes you did

Dowl88

Dowl88 wrote: »

Some people are naturally better and safer drivers. A Person who did 10k could be 10 times safer than a person who did 100k

People also perceive themselves to be better drivers than they are, until experience teaches them otherwise.

And experience also helps you recognise that fact.

dj jarvis

No Pants wrote: »

I think you left out an additional 60 months.

no , it was 2 months - dont knock me , knock the system as it was

and if you feel you have to sit a test when ABSOLUTELY no reason to , then great , well done you , but dont be judging others by your "standards"

this is nearly 25 years ago lad , relax :rolleyes:

Dowl88

Candie wrote: »

People also perceive themselves to be better drivers than they are, until experience teaches them otherwise.

And experience also helps you recognise that fact.

Some people have better reactions, better awareness than others and thats a fact. Its like saying if anyone spent 20 years training to be a goalkeeper everyone could play in the premiership earning 50k a week.

Some people are just better drivers than other regardless of milage or expierence

Dowl88

Dowl88 wrote: »

Some people have better reactions, better awareness than others and thats a fact. Its like saying if anyone spent 20 years training to be a goalkeeper everyone could play in the premiership earning 50k a week.

No that's not what I'm saying. Some people are naturally better drivers than others, but everyone improves with practice.

And novice drivers are very unreliable judges of their own skills imo. I've never met one who didn't think they were better than nearly everyone else, regardless of evidence to the contrary. They also often don't take responsibility for mistakes, blaming poor judgement on other drivers instead of trying to learn from the mistake.

Some people are better, but not always the ones who think they are.

No Pants

dj jarvis wrote: »

no , it was 2 months - dont knock me , knock the system as it was

That's not what you said last month.

dj jarvis wrote: »

my licence is out 5 years and 2 months