Scottish Independence yea or nay

feargale

Sand wrote: »

Given how aggressive and nasty some of the Yes campaign has been, if a No vote has been achieved, political and media figures will need to invest in personal security for the next couple of weeks/months.

Oh God yes! London Times page 8 today : Two young ladies, No supporters, went to the door of a Yes supporter to canvass and he told them they were "stupid young girls who don't know anything." Down with this sort of thing! Surely the European Court of Human Rights should intervene.
P.S. I have read about this kind of terrorism only in London-based papers that support No. What have pro-Yes papers outside London been saying about it?

feargale

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I am very interested to see if we get a break down of the votes. I'd love to see exactly how the 16-18 group voted.

Opinion polls showed the 15-24 age group marginally pro-No.

Dunno if this has been posted already:


Someone posted it elsewhere and claimed it was a graphic of Twitter activity worldwide a short time ago.

TCDStudent1

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I am very interested to see if we get a break down of the votes. I'd love to see exactly how the 16-18 group voted.

How would that be possible? Surely, there was nothing on the paper asking your age group, or was there??

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

How would that be possible? Surely, there was nothing on the paper asking your age group, or was there??

I'm not sure it is possible, I just meant I'd love to see it. They'd have no information from the votes themselves, they'd have to do a poll after, I suppose.

TCDStudent1

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I'm not sure it is possible, I just meant I'd love to see it. They'd have no information from the votes themselves, they'd have to do a poll after, I suppose.

Would be interesting alright.

Harry Angstrom

feargale wrote: »

Opinion polls showed the 15-24 age group marginally pro-No.

That's disappointing. I would've thought the younger generation would have been more inclined to vote Yes.

refusetolose

allegations of electoral fraud in glasgow

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

You don't need to present ID to vote in the UK, surely that's inviting Electoral Fraud.

u_take_d low ROAD

Im sure it's been asked before, but what station has the best coverage? Have BBC1 Scot. on in d background

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

u_take_d low ROAD wrote: »

Im sure it's been asked before, but what station has the best coverage? Have BBC1 Scot. on in d background

I've switched over to Sky and it's a disgrace. All the presenters appear to hate the Yes people and are being so dismissive and rude to them. Horrible stuff.

Witcher

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

You don't need to present ID to vote in the UK, surely that's inviting Electoral Fraud.

I've never needed to present ID here either.

Harry Angstrom

u_take_d low ROAD wrote: »

Im sure it's been asked before, but what station has the best coverage? Have BBC1 Scot. on in d background

BBC 1 London has the political heavyweights - Huw Edwards, Jeremy Vine, Andrew Marr etc.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Blay wrote: »

I've never needed to present ID here either.

You're supposed to though, I suppose it depends on who is volunteering in your polling station on the day. I've always had to present it.

Harry Angstrom

Blay wrote: »

I've never needed to present ID here either.

Neither have I.

Gerry T

Blay wrote: »

I've never needed to present ID here either.

where are you, SOuthern Ireland ?

Witcher

Gerry T wrote: »

where are you, SOuthern Ireland ?

Yeah.

Gerry T

Blay wrote: »

Yeah.

Well I can understand if its a small area and everyone knows everyone. But I'm Dublin based and have always had to have ID, never knew anyone working at the polling station

Frank Lee Midere

refusetolose wrote: »

allegations of electoral fraud in glasgow

The Sky News interviewer was disappointed when the guy she was questioning said it was 10 and 10 only.

Meanwhile a whole pile of YES votes in the NO pile went unremarked.

Harry Angstrom

Gerry T wrote: »

Well I can understand if its a small area and everyone knows everyone. But I'm Dublin based and have always had to have ID, never knew anyone working at the polling station

It must be a Dublin thing. I live in a fairly well populated Cork suburb and I've never been asked for ID, even though I didn't know the people at the polling station.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

The Sky News interviewer was disappointed when the guy she was questioning said it was 10 and 10 only.

Meanwhile a whole pile of YES votes in the NO pile went unremarked.

Kay Burley is a stirrer, and a wagon.

The ballot on the top of the pile was Yes, no idea what the ones under it said.

Hotblack Desiato

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

You don't need to present ID to vote in the UK, surely that's inviting Electoral Fraud.

You do here if you turn up in motorcycle gear.

When I walk up or take the car, never been ID'ed. (Dublin, I've been at the same table in the same polling station for the last 11 years, and I vote in EVERY election)

jank

Godge wrote: »

I don't have a lot of time for those expats.

They spend their childhood in Ireland being subsidised at school and college in Ireland by the Irish taxpayer.

They spend their working years abroad paying taxes to another country.

They want to come home in retirement and have their free travel, medical card, non-contributory pension and household benefits subsidised by the Irish taxpayer.

All while contributing nothing and now they want a vote while away as well. Some cheek.

Voting should only be open to those tax-resident in Ireland, doesn't matter if your income is too low to pay tax i.e. on social welfare, you can still vote as you are still tax resident.

The likes of Bono and Denis O'Brien who skive off abroad half the year and don't pay taxes as a result shouldn't get a vote either.

Should non-nationals who are tax resident in Ireland have a vote? May as well do away with the idea of citizenship so.

Also, in reality one cannot just waltz into Ireland at age 67 and claim a medical card, state pension and a host of other goodies.... it is just wrong for you to claim that. People who come to retire in Ireland need to have their own private pension or have a pension from another country to fund their retirement. This, pension welfare tourism is news to me and would like to hear some actual facts on your claims....

Esel

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

You're supposed to though, I suppose it depends on who is volunteering in your polling station on the day. I've always had to present it.

I think the official stance here is 'You may be asked to produce ID'.

Hotblack Desiato

jank wrote: »

Should non-nationals who are tax resident in Ireland have a vote? May as well do away with the idea of citizenship so.

Yes of course they should have a vote if they're committed enough to this state to gain citizenship here.

jank

Godge wrote: »

You are missing the point.

They are citizens and I am happy that they remain citizens. They should have all the rights that citizens have except the right to vote.

Citizenship does not equal having a right to decide on taxation levels and public spending of a country that you are not living in nor contributing to.

I covered Irish people on the dole, they are tax resident here and fully entitled to vote.

Stop confusing the issue.

Lol to the part in bold. You do realise that Ireland is very much the exception to the rule here. Every other EU and OECD country allows citizens from abroad to vote. But we Irish are 'special' I suppose and then wonder why our politics is still dominate by a division of a civil war 100 years ago. Irish narrow-mindedness fully on display here.

Harry Angstrom

I'm waiting for Kay Burley to call them knobs.......

BoJack Horseman

jank wrote: »

Lol to the part in bold. You do realise that Ireland is very much the exception to the rule here. Every other EU and OECD country allows citizens from abroad to vote. But we Irish are 'special' I suppose and then wonder why our politics is still dominate by a division of a civil war 100 years ago. Irish narrow-mindedness fully on display here.

Its a tricky situation.

If Irish citizens abroad had full voting rights, SF would win every election.
What with 1/2 million rather motivated SF voters north of the border.

Right Turn Clyde

Gerry T wrote: »

Well I can understand if its a small area and everyone knows everyone. But I'm Dublin based and have always had to have ID, never knew anyone working at the polling station

There's no consistency. Plenty of places in Dublin don't ask for ID. My mate lives in Cabra and he's never been asked for it.

Right Turn Clyde

Gerry T wrote: »

Well I can understand if its a small area and everyone knows everyone. But I'm Dublin based and have always had to have ID, never knew anyone working at the polling station

You'd be surprised at how estranged people have become in the the South. We're not all friendly neighbours.

Right Turn Clyde

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Its a tricky situation.

If Irish citizens abroad had full voting rights, SF would win every election.
What with 1/2 million rather motivated SF voters north of the border.

You obviously don't know how Irish elections work. Those half a million Shinners cannot vote in the constituencies in the South.

Harry Angstrom

Is Clackmannanshire announcing its referendum results in a field?

jank

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Yes of course they should have a vote if they're committed enough to this state to gain citizenship here.

And the only true way to gauge that commitment is long term residency where then once can become a citizen...

cruiserweight

Clackmannanshire tiny council area so not a huge influence, but slight surprise that it has gone no, if this trend continues then could be a larger than expected no victory

Harry Angstrom

cruiserweight wrote: »

Clackmannanshire tiny council area so not a huge influence, but slight surprise that it has gone no, if this trend continues then could be a larger than expected no victory

Pretty much in keeping with the YouGov poll.

BoJack Horseman

Right Turn Clyde wrote: »

You obviously don't know how Irish elections work. Those half a million Shinners cannot vote in the constituencies in the South.

Your right, I've only been voting in them for decades...

Its obvious that allowing all Irish citizens a vote would skew support to SF.

Right Turn Clyde

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Your right, I've only been voting in them for decades...

Its obvious that allowing all Irish citizens a vote would skew support to SF.

But how would that effect a general election?

jank

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Its a tricky situation.

If Irish citizens abroad had full voting rights, SF would win every election.
What with 1/2 million rather motivated SF voters north of the border.

How many people in the north actually hold an Irish passport. Of course that could be mitigated against people who need to be resident in the Republic for a certain length of time thereby wiping away that advantage. There are many ways to skin the cat, but the blanket no,no,no I often hear regards this issue is sad given the way we have treated people who have emigrated in the past. the phrase "give us your money, but shut up!" springs to mind.

Clackmannanshre says No, and Yes really needed it. Small numbers, but it's looking like No to win nationwide by maybe 55-45 or 54-46.

efb

John Reed is a Lord...

efb

Right Turn Clyde wrote: »

You obviously don't know how Irish elections work. Those half a million Shinners cannot vote in the constituencies in the South.

Louth isn't far

Harry Angstrom

The Old Man of Hoy says No.......

efb

Was anyone actually surprised that Andy Murray was a nationalist?

Grudaire

They're still offering Odds on a 'No'!

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Big win for the No's in Orkney. No surprise there really.

Harry Angstrom

Grudaire wrote: »

They're still offering Odds on a 'No'!

What odds? 1/1000?

Grudaire

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

What odds? 1/1000?

Surprisingly better than that:

http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/scottish-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=451400

Harry Angstrom

Grudaire wrote: »

Surprisingly better than that:

http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/scottish-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=451400

If I had 66,000 in my back pocket, it would be the easiest grand I'd ever make.

Esel

Grudaire wrote: »

Surprisingly better than that:

http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/scottish-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=451400

"Applies to the next binding referendum on Scottish independence."

Waitsian

The No will win the battle but ultimately lose the war. Long-term the Union is screwed. The English and the regions within it, as well as the Welsh and our cousins in the North will clamour for greater devolution. That means the entire British constitution will have to be looked at in the future. Could Westminster become redundant? The Union as we know it is finished as of today regardless of tonite's result.