The Rugby Championship MMXIV

matthew8

Well done Nigel.

Kiwi_knock

Great decision Nigel, cynical by the Argentinian player

matthew8

Argentina still get the penalty? What's going on?

LuckyGent88

Came to the right decision anyway.

Buer

matthew8 wrote: »

Argentina still get the penalty? What's going on?

The push contributed but wasn't exactly strong enough to force Folau into the jumper. Benefit of the doubt saved him a yellow but he was still going to make contact with that guy in the air, regardless, I believe.

matthew8

Thought it was a fair push in real time but not on replay.

matthew8

Argentina's turn to give away stupid penalties.

matthew8

The fking laser pointer again. Very likable bunch these Argentinians.

Kiwi_knock

Absolutely disgraceful by some Argentinian fans.

Buer

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

Absolutely disgraceful by some Argentinian fans.

Not surprising. We support them as underdogs but they're a thoroughly dislikeable team/supporters/union when it comes to the actual games and always have been.

Buer

What the hell was Hooper was doing? I know he could do little about his direction but high legs, back into the player and late.

Commentators are ridiculous.

LuckyGent88

Well if ever argentina are going to win a rugby championship game now is the day.
Surely they get the win today.

Definite penalty IMO but maybe the yellow card was harsh. Aussie commentators are crap

Rjd2

Buer wrote: »

Not surprising. We support them as underdogs but they're a thoroughly dislikeable team/supporters/union when it comes to the actual games and always have been.

Crazy isn't it? It was the same in the 2007 world cup. I really wanted them to win the bloody thing, but their style of play and type of play pissed me off hugely. Same tonight really.:o

Kanrith

The Aussie commentators are getting on my nerves a bit to say the least.

Kiwi_knock

Owens must want Argentina to win, never a penalty and never a yellow card. It is certainly a tainted Argentinian victory

Piliger

Great decision by Owens to give a yellow. Pitiful bias from Aussie commentators.

Buer

Rjd2 wrote: »

Crazy isn't it? It was the same in the 2007 world cup. I really wanted them to win the bloody thing, but their style of play and type of play pissed me off hugely. Same tonight really.:o

Not even their style which has been awful in the past. They're actually quite good these days to watch. They were repeatedly accused of gouging against us in years gone past before the hard line was taken with that offence. Players needed stitches around their eyes before.

In the 2007 tour ahead of the RWC, their union arranged our captain's run in a stadium that had a soccer match on at the same time. Our players showed up to discover they could not have their last run out ahead of the game. Their union clearly knew this months in advance but scheduled it anyway.

They're not a very pleasant bunch at all and those incidents stay in the memory.

Buer

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

Owens must want Argentina to win, never a penalty and never a yellow card. It is certainly a tainted Argentinian victory

It was the height of clumsiness and he had been warned for discipline already. Not a certain yellow but he can have absolutely no complaints about being sanctioned for jumping late into a kicker and high.

LuckyGent88

Some scenes in the coaching box.

Kiwi_knock

Congrats to Argentina, impossible for me to warm towards them or their fans though.

Dave_The_Sheep

Well, the Aussie commentators having to talk about that is certainly satisfying.

Poor form from whoever was acting the dick with that laser though.

Piliger

Buer wrote: »

It was the height of clumsiness and he had been warned for discipline already. Not a certain yellow but he can have absolutely no complaints about being sanctioned for jumping late into a kicker and high.

It was reckless and dangerous imho. Owens saw it for what it was and wasn't fooled. He had already warned them. Owens stands apart as the best, yet again. A great day for brave referees too. The ref in the Leinster match was excellent and gutsy too. Bodes well for the season.
Australia were pulverised all through the match and Argentina deserved the win.

Buer

Deserved win. Argentina won 21-3 if you ignore the opening 12 minutes and were well on top throughout.

Australia appear to have gone nowhere since their new coach has come in. Simply don't have the players/depth.

matthew8

Saw the laser thing again. Wasn't sure if he got it in the eye before. That's absolutely disgraceful.

Kiwi_knock

I wouldn't be shocked to see McKenzie go after this. I think he has lost the players after the Beale incident. Australia are right back to where they were under Deans.

matthew8

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

I wouldn't be shocked to see McKenzie go after this. I think he has lost the players after the Beale incident. Australia are right back to where they were under Deans.

May as well see it out to the world cup at least. I don't think Deans would have got close even at home to NZ/SA this year. Australia can get to the final without facing either of them.

sydneybound

Buer wrote: »

Deserved win. Argentina won 21-3 if you ignore the opening 12 minutes and were well on top throughout.

Australia appear to have gone nowhere since their new coach has come in. Simply don't have the players/depth.

+1

Look let's put this laser talk to bed, it didn't effect foley in the lead up and it was a pretty simply kick and he missed it.

Well done Argentina they deserved the win. COME ON THE PUMAS!!!!

Morf

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

Lovely stuff. Great scrummaging to set up that try

The way Senatore cut back in towards the scrum to fix his man nearer to it before passing was a great touch that gave greater time for the men outside. Something small but smarter rugby and great to see.

The clear outs in the run up to the Pumas first try were bordering on ridiculous in an entertaining way. Guys flying in with no regard for the gate or which colour was in front just diving in and smashing anything if the ball wasn't already out.

Swiwi.

Ah well, I guess a few 2 year old Kiwi kids saw their Dad cry for the first time...

Great test match, and SA, especially in the first half, were very impressive.

Not too fussed, a loss had to come eventually, and it was a decent fightback, albeit ultimately unsuccessful.

My RC player of the tournament is Duane Vermeulen, he was just excellent.

Ardillaun

Le Roux's running and kicks were excellent and he helped tackle Savea a few times - the Boks seemed to always have an extra back available when the big man broke out of the first tackle, as he frequently did. I would have started with Pietersen. It's a credit to the SA first half performance that the AB backline looked fallible at times. SA now have some enviable options at fly-half.

Near the end of the match, the SA commentators noted that the SA forwards were walking to the line out while the ABs forwards were still running. Fair play to the Boks that they came back when they looked beaten.

thebaz

glad to see Argentina win - they are the real under-dog IMO - did there English and French based players all get released ? -

Certainly not condoning the laser incident or previous gouging infractions, but in real life love the passion of there people ( for the most part

Yeah_Right

WTO wrote: »

Cheers for that! It's always good to get a NZ viewpoint. I see Rene Ranger is apparently looking to headback to NZ, and I think Richard Kahui is looking about returning too. Could be quite a logjam for the NZ selectors to sift through. Do you still rate Nonu & Smith as NZ's best midfield combination, and if they are out, what is your next best combination? Do you prefer TJ Perenara or Tawera Kerr-Barlow on the bench? Good luck for the game anyway, I reckon it will be close, and SA might just edge it out of desperation.

What a weekend for rugby!! Disappointed to lose but it was a great match and a great performance from the Boks. That Pollard looks like he has got a bit of talent. Well done to the Argies. Very happy for them to finally get a win.

To answer your questions: Yes I still think Smith & Nonu is the best midfield combination we have but Fekitoa has shown he is comfortable at test level and I would have no issue with him starting in either position. Obviously SBW is SBW so he has to be in the squad.
I was always a big fan of both Kahui and Ranger. Kahui is a great all round footballer but he is like a tampon. In for 1 week and out for 3. For that reason I would be iffy about taking him to a RWC. Ranger is just an excitement machine but he lacks consistency. And he also needs to work on his brain explosions.

I am still not sure about TJP and TKB. Don't know which one is better. Lot of talent but no where near Smith yet. I think the selectors will have given them a lot to work on and its up to them to prove they are best back-up. Wouldn't be surprised to see one of them miss out on the RWC. Maybe a younger bolter goes past them as TKB is out for the season so there is a spot open for the November tour. Or the selectors might opt for an old head such as Ellis or even Cowan. Experience wins World Cups and I would feel more comfortable with one of those old guys coming on for the last 10-20 minutes of a tight RWC match than I would with the current 2 back-ups.

hahashake

WTO wrote: »

Nothing beats

1) NZ v SA at Ellis Park
2) RWC final
3) 1st test of a Lions series

Based on the last two games I'd have to agree. Both times SA have been enterprising and entertaining, and both games had some of the most skill, physicality and commitment you will see in a game of rugby. I hope Meyer takes a look at a guy like Pollard and adjusts the way he approaches tactics. Horses for courses naturally, but when you can play rugby the way it's meant to be played (i.e. positivity and risk-taking) and beat the best team in the world then you really should question whether going back to the old Morne Steyn approach (that worked in 07 but is boring and outdated now) is ever necessary.

Journeyman_1

Disappointed I missed the Argentina Aus game, but it's great that they got the win, and without a lot of their big names! I am surprised though, I really thought Aus had pushed on this year, but these last 2 results will have been disappointing for them, we'll see how they get on in the 3rd test v NZ but I fear that their confidence will be rocked now and another heavy loss is on the cards which could lead to a very tough November series for them. Quade should be back soon though, and if he gets back into the team the extra spark he can bring may help. I don't really expect (or want) steady consistent performances from Aus, they are supposed to have ups and downs and produce scintillating back play and silly mistakes!

I think SA with Pollard are a better team than they were last year. What happened to Englebrecht, I though he looked like more of a 13 than Serfontein (who I thought was a 12)? That said, SA looked poor enough at the start of the championship, so I guess they have to prove they still have the consistency. I am not looking forward to the first test in November, I reckon we'll get smashed! I thought Hougaard played pretty well at the weekend and at 26, he could be an option. How long will they keep Matfield around for though, it doesn't seem like any of the younger locks are trusted apart from Etzebeth so that may be an area of concern.

NZ aren't quite as good as they were.... but they are still the best. Surprisingly, options on the wing are a little scarce atm which is lucky for Israel Dagg. Smith is much less effective at 14 but until someone else can make a mark for 14 it should stay with Smith/Dagg. Maybe when Piatau comes back it will change, but I just don't know. Also, poor Ryan Crotty, gets one full game and nails it but then just about makes the bench a few times. The coaches have put a lot of faith in Fekitoa which looks to be paying off, but I get the feeling it won't fully materialise until he gets back to 13. It must be nice to have Nonu, Crotty, Fekitoa and C. Smith to try and fit into the 12/13 jerseys.

A. Smith is the best SH around at the minute too. I was expecting Cruden/Barrett to both improve a little more than they did this year, I'm not sure how they would react in a high pressure WC game right now. Both still are great and a lot of countries would give a lot to get either.

Lock is probably the biggest area of weakness in terms of depth, but Whitelock/Retallick is the best partnership in the world imo. The back row has a lot of depth now with a potential complete 2nd choice of Luatua/Cane/Messam. I think Coles had a great championship and when Mealamu got to start he was fantastic also. He doesn't seem to sub well though. I can't say too much about the props but they all seemed to scrum well and showed the trademark skills all ABs show around the pitch.

Yeah_Right

Journeyman_1 wrote: »

Disappointed I missed the Argentina Aus game, but it's great that they got the win, and without a lot of their big names! I am surprised though, I really thought Aus had pushed on this year, but these last 2 results will have been disappointing for them, we'll see how they get on in the 3rd test v NZ but I fear that their confidence will be rocked now and another heavy loss is on the cards which could lead to a very tough November series for them. Quade should be back soon though, and if he gets back into the team the extra spark he can bring may help. I don't really expect (or want) steady consistent performances from Aus, they are supposed to have ups and downs and produce scintillating back play and silly mistakes!

I think SA with Pollard are a better team than they were last year. What happened to Englebrecht, I though he looked like more of a 13 than Serfontein (who I thought was a 12)? That said, SA looked poor enough at the start of the championship, so I guess they have to prove they still have the consistency. I am not looking forward to the first test in November, I reckon we'll get smashed! I thought Hougaard played pretty well at the weekend and at 26, he could be an option. How long will they keep Matfield around for though, it doesn't seem like any of the younger locks are trusted apart from Etzebeth so that may be an area of concern.

NZ aren't quite as good as they were.... but they are still the best. Surprisingly, options on the wing are a little scarce atm which is lucky for Israel Dagg. Smith is much less effective at 14 but until someone else can make a mark for 14 it should stay with Smith/Dagg. Maybe when Piatau comes back it will change, but I just don't know. Also, poor Ryan Crotty, gets one full game and nails it but then just about makes the bench a few times. The coaches have put a lot of faith in Fekitoa which looks to be paying off, but I get the feeling it won't fully materialise until he gets back to 13. It must be nice to have Nonu, Crotty, Fekitoa and C. Smith to try and fit into the 12/13 jerseys.

A. Smith is the best SH around at the minute too. I was expecting Cruden/Barrett to both improve a little more than they did this year, I'm not sure how they would react in a high pressure WC game right now. Both still are great and a lot of countries would give a lot to get either.

Lock is probably the biggest area of weakness in terms of depth, but Whitelock/Retallick is the best partnership in the world imo. The back row has a lot of depth now with a potential complete 2nd choice of Luatua/Cane/Messam. I think Coles had a great championship and when Mealamu got to start he was fantastic also. He doesn't seem to sub well though. I can't say too much about the props but they all seemed to scrum well and showed the trademark skills all ABs show around the pitch.

Thats a pretty fair and accurate summation. Cheers.
Not too worried about the wing depth. NZ always seems to be able to find good wingers. Piatau is back (Smith is being rested for the next Bledisloe). There is Li and Halai from the Blues and a couple of others kicking around the ITM Cup that seem to be going alright.

Lock is ok as well. Thrush is actually ranked about 6th in NZ and it was just injuries to Romano, Bird and Tuipolotu that got him in the squad. He is a solid journeyman but if they were all fit, he is no where near the team.

The depth in the loosies, midfield and props are fine as well. Its halfback and hooker where we need some better back ups.

Digifriendly

Any word on Dan Carter? Is he likely to make the autumn internationals?

Yeah_Right

Digifriendly wrote: »

Any word on Dan Carter? Is he likely to make the autumn internationals?

They are debating whether to call him back for the next Bledisloe or to leave him playing for Canterbury until the AIs.

Jacovs

Was reading this earlier today and had a giggle...

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/NZ-ratings-draw-Bok-fan-ire-20141007

Anyone else agree with these ratings or is it a bit of sour grapes?

Yeah_Right

Jacovs wrote: »

Was reading this earlier today and had a giggle...

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/NZ-ratings-draw-Bok-fan-ire-20141007

Anyone else agree with these ratings or is it a bit of sour grapes?

The link won't open for me. Is it the ratings from the NZ Herald?

Jacovs

Thats the one. Will copy and paste most relevant part of the article I posted.

"Bok No 8 Duane Vermeulen was the official man-of-the-match, but only received a rating of '5.5' - significantly lower than his direct opponent, Kieran Read, who was awarded a '7'.

Other curious ratings include Handre Pollard (7) overshadowed by Beauden Barrett (7.5) and Francois Hougaard (6) outperformed by Aaron Smith (6.5).

When one tallies the total ratings for the starting XVs of both sides, one gets 82 for the Springboks... and 95 for the All Blacks!"

Yeah_Right

Jacovs wrote: »

Thats the one. Will copy and paste most relevant part of the article I posted.

"Bok No 8 Duane Vermeulen was the official man-of-the-match, but only received a rating of '5.5' - significantly lower than his direct opponent, Kieran Read, who was awarded a '7'.

Other curious ratings include Handre Pollard (7) overshadowed by Beauden Barrett (7.5) and Francois Hougaard (6) outperformed by Aaron Smith (6.5).

When one tallies the total ratings for the starting XVs of both sides, one gets 82 for the Springboks... and 95 for the All Blacks!"

Yeah I thought the ratings were pretty harsh when I read them at the time. The 3 guys you mentioned especially. But others as well. I have no idea who the author is. Never heard of him till I read that and not part the regular Herald rugby team. He certainly isn't down as one of their rugby "Experts". Usually they leave it to Chris Rattue to come up with ridiculous, stupid and one-eyed articles.

Ardillaun

Le Roux has fallen into the habit of doing a little Riverdance move before he starts running with the ball, a la Quade Cooper.

.ak

Ardillaun wrote: »

Le Roux has fallen into the habit of doing a little Riverdance move before he starts running with the ball, a la Quade Cooper.

9 times out of 10 he beats the first defender so I'd say keep it up twinkle toes.

sydthebeat

having 12 of the starting 15 kiwis rated better than their bok counterparts is bitter in the extreme

hahashake

Sour grapes possibly, but more likely clickbait. I guarantee a fair asessment would have much less page views. Seems like a lot of sports journalism is controversial for sake of being controversial i.e. to generate interest and therefore revenue.

WTO

Those points things are stupid, I hate them.

One newspaper will put something like

Joe Bloggs: Played well. 7

And the next will put

Joe Bloggs: Limited chances. 5

And the next

Joe Bloggs: Commanding display. 8

They are so inane.

But I still click all the same...

George Hook

There was an Australian rugby news site I used to visit and every story there was only written to get views by being very controversial. Sometimes it could be argued that it helped generate discussion about things effecting the sport but it mostly made the people who had written the articles look like fools. :S

Morf

Ardillaun wrote: »

Le Roux has fallen into the habit of doing a little Riverdance move before he starts running with the ball, a la Quade Cooper.

I'd hitch-kick every time if it worked as well as it does for WLR.

Saw the 'cutting' Dagg was doing that seemed to be related to QC doing his knee on Saturday too.

In short: They're better than I'll ever be and I'm envious.

.ak

Only going around to watching the whole match (SA vs NZ) last night. How did Hougard not get MoTM?

LuckyGent88

Looks like the investigation into kurtley Beale has taken a bigger turn. The incident with the female team assistant in Argentina has become secondary to these new allegations about offensive pictures and text messages.

These texts and pictures came to light in June but only within management and was supposedly dealt with but it has now escalated and the hierarchy have found out.

From the highs of this season with the waratahs, it really looks like he has played his last game of rugby union. Even if he wins the tribunal, he must be severely embarrassed by all the incidents and will want out of union.

Seems like the senior players are behind kurtley Beale so there maybe a lot of cracks appearing in the australian camp in the next week.
No big deal really, only have the all blacks who are coming off a loss!!

http://m.smh.com.au/rugby-union/australia-rugby/kurtley-beales-wallabies-career-in-jeopardy-following-fresh-allegations-of-offensive-text-messages-20141009-113pqh.html