Would you pay 2 months deposit?

quadrifoglio verde · 07-08-2014 5:40pm

Tarzana wrote: »

Some landlords ask to see tenant's bank statements, so it should be fine the other way too, IMO.

In a landlords market no, in a tenants market yes. Where landlords can have 20 people wanting to rent the unit, they can be picky. When the tenant has 20 options of where he can rent than he can be picky.

murphaph · 07-08-2014 8:52pm

jester77 wrote: »

3 months deposit is standard here, plus 1 months rent up front and 2.6 months rent to the agent. The difference is that your deposit is put into a special account where neither the landlord or the tenant have access to without both signatures. Plus it will also earn interest while it is sitting there.

Everything except the bit in bold is correct. I rent a property out here and I do it by the book and I keep the deposit in my own account (I am the only one who can withdraw from it, tenant has nothing to do with it) BUT I must be able to provide a statement from the bank showing the accrued interest owed to the tenant. Most banks provide a special service to landlords to accomplish this. The deposits are actually all piled into one account but the bank can tell me how much interest is owed on deposit A or deposit B and I can print this off and give it to the tenant with their deposit + interest....you wanna know the bad news? The interest required by law is paltry. Currently it's a minimum of 0.2%. The crappiest savings account will still give 5 times that...

So the only advantage a German tenant has over an Irish one is 0.2% interest. There is NO deposit retention system here. No third party system like in the UK. The landlord may at his discretion agree to a joint account as mentioned by jester above but it is not compulsory by any means. Often in fact the deposit lies in an account bearing the tenant's name but with the landlord as counter signatory, but again this is at the landlord's discretion.

German source

beauf · 07-08-2014 9:39pm

On one side you have a 100K+ apartment and the potential of tens of thousand in damage. Probably no practical way to recover any loss. The other side 2~4K and you have the the PRTB and the courts to recover any loss.

Its important that both sides are protected, and they aren't.

makeorbrake · 07-08-2014 10:21pm

beauf wrote: »

On one side you have a 100K+ apartment and the potential of tens of thousand in damage. Probably no practical way to recover any loss. The other side 2~4K and you have the the PRTB and the courts to recover any loss.

Its important that both sides are protected, and they aren't.

A lot could be done to improve things.

1. Rent supplement to be taken away permanently from anyone who wrecks a house - resulting in €0,000#s worth of damage.

2. PRTB to be compelled to act rapidly for both the benefit of LL and tenant alike. If a change in the RTA is needed to tie in with this, then that too.

3. A database of all LL's and tenants - with details of all previous issues to be made available upon application of a tenant to take on a property - to be made available to LL and tenant - both.

If you had all of the above, it may well be that nobody would be bothered about bigger deposits.

beauf · 07-08-2014 10:31pm

The Govt won't do that because it costs them more money than it saves. Its doesn't save money because they aren't carrying the cost of problems. tenants and LL's are. Only if enough political pressure is brought to bear will they change anything.

makeorbrake · 07-08-2014 10:36pm

beauf wrote: »

The Govt won't do that because it costs them more money than it saves.

LL's are already paying for this - but get less than nothing for it i.e. their ongoing payments to the PRTB.

beauf wrote: »

Only if enough political pressure is brought to bear will they change anything.

At times - reading boards threads - you wouldn't think it - but both LL's and tenants need exactly the same thing - to fix all of this. Both should be lobbying hard for this to be sorted out once and for all.

Tarzana · 07-08-2014 10:50pm

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

In a landlords market no, in a tenants market yes. Where landlords can have 20 people wanting to rent the unit, they can be picky. When the tenant has 20 options of where he can rent than he can be picky.

Indeed. It should be fine though, landlord's market or not. Well, ideally, there should be a third party system.

Tarzana · 07-08-2014 10:52pm

beauf wrote: »

On one side you have a 100K+ apartment and the potential of tens of thousand in damage. Probably no practical way to recover any loss. The other side 2~4K and you have the the PRTB and the courts to recover any loss.

Its important that both sides are protected, and they aren't.

I agree. Third party idea is the way to go.

Tarzana · 07-08-2014 10:54pm

makeorbrake wrote: »

At times - reading boards threads - you wouldn't think it - but both LL's and tenants need exactly the same thing - to fix all of this. Both should be lobbying hard for this to be sorted out once and for all.

I would totally get behind this. In fact, I would love to start a campaign. Any pointers on how I might do that?

Bepolite · 07-08-2014 11:02pm

Tarzana wrote: »

I would totally get behind this. In fact, I would love to start a campaign. Any pointers on how I might do that?

Dear Mr. Blah Blah TD,

Yada, yada, blah blah, yada yada.

Yours Sincerely,

Tarzana

JustAThought · 07-08-2014 11:05pm

Ive been burned a number of times by tenants - leaving overnight and leaving large gas and electricity bills unpaid - damage to the property and/or items missing - and that's before you consider the lack of income for the finalinth while
You try and sort out the mess and take
Time From Work to screen possible
Tenants, clean and upgrade the place, and wait & establish where tenants are ( holidays, hospital, work assignment.. O ... Did a runner ). It's a major hassle and a Lot of expense - new keys, transfer of bills , parking permits etc,

So I now ask for the first months rent and 6 weeks deposit upfront - and tbh next time I will be asking for 2 months . The last tenant actually made over 200 marks on the freshly painted walls, scribbled on the desk & set two lit joss sticks down on the inbuilt furniture totally ruining it - not to Mention the outstanding e300 gas bill and LX bill....

Two months.. Common sense.

Tarzana · 08-08-2014 12:24am

Bepolite wrote: »

Dear Mr. Blah Blah TD,

Yada, yada, blah blah, yada yada.

Yours Sincerely,

Tarzana

Oh. That's crap.

Tarzana · 08-08-2014 12:26am

JustAThought wrote: »

It's a major hassle and a Lot of expense - new keys, transfer of bills , parking permits etc

How does any of this relate the previous tenant? These are costs associated with being a landlord, not something to be deducted from a deposit, hassle or not. And often the landlord has nothing to do with transfer of bills.

JustAThought wrote: »

not to Mention the outstanding e300 gas bill and LX bill....

The outstanding bill has nothing to do with you if it's not in your name. It has nothing to do with a new tenant either. They transfer the account to their name but the amount is still the responsibility of the previous account holder.

Bepolite · 08-08-2014 1:29pm

Tarzana wrote: »

Oh. That's crap.

Then paint yourself orange and run naked outside the Dail. What did you expect to do?

Find out who you local TD is - write them a letter - get others to do that same. If they believe its an issue that will garner them enough votes then it will get some attention. How else do you think it works?

Tarzana · 08-08-2014 5:14pm

Bepolite wrote: »

Then paint yourself orange and run naked outside the Dail. What did you expect to do?

What's with the tood? Jays. Wish someone more informative and less passive aggressive had responded.

visual · 08-08-2014 7:02pm

Tarzana wrote: »

What's with the tood? Jays. Wish someone more informative and less passive aggressive had responded.

What can you expect from those who feel entitled to exploit those less fortunate. The market has turned and with that so has greasy greedy hands

quadrifoglio verde · 08-08-2014 7:04pm

JustAThought wrote: »

Ive been burned a number of times by tenants - leaving overnight and leaving large gas and electricity bills unpaid - damage to the property and/or items missing - and that's before you consider the lack of income for the finalinth while
You try and sort out the mess and take
Time From Work to screen possible
Tenants, clean and upgrade the place, and wait & establish where tenants are ( holidays, hospital, work assignment.. O ... Did a runner ). It's a major hassle and a Lot of expense - new keys, transfer of bills , parking permits etc,

So I now ask for the first months rent and 6 weeks deposit upfront - and tbh next time I will be asking for 2 months . The last tenant actually made over 200 marks on the freshly painted walls, scribbled on the desk & set two lit joss sticks down on the inbuilt furniture totally ruining it - not to Mention the outstanding e300 gas bill and LX bill....

Two months.. Common sense.

Surely your not liable for a bill ran up in someone else's name...

The_Conductor · 08-08-2014 7:18pm

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Surely your not liable for a bill ran up in someone else's name...

Try transferring the account back into your own name- when there is an outstanding balance against it. The course of least resistance- if you want to let the place out in an expeditious manner- is for the landlord to accept the bill, clear it, and put it down to experience (hopefully they have a deposit to take it from- however, if the tenant is doing a legger they probably won't have paid the rent in a while either- so you're damned one way or the other.......)

davo10 · 08-08-2014 7:18pm

visual wrote: »

What can you expect from those who feel entitled to exploit those less fortunate. The market has turned and with that so has greasy greedy hands

The market may have turned for property owners but it's still the same for those who take advantage of our messed up tenancy laws. Again, the increase in deposit is in response to the frequency with which tenants with hold rent, damage properties, don't give notice etc. If tenants abide by lease agreement, they have an avenue to pursue the LL, LLs don't have that luxury. Therefore the only option is further insulation against losses.

No exploitation, if you don't like it, don't pay it, rent somewhere else, no harm done.

I should say as well that if you are one of "those less fortunate" who cannot afford a second months deposit, then you have no "wriggle room" to pay rent if some other unforeseen expense comes up.

beauf · 08-08-2014 7:40pm

Tarzana wrote: »

I would totally get behind this. In fact, I would love to start a campaign. Any pointers on how I might do that?

I think you'd need to gather data to support your objective. So a comparison and analysis of systems in other countries. Then lobby politicians and vested interests with the data. Too many on the boards acc & prop forum don't seem to be able to look at things analytically. people are too bitter from their experiences I assume.

murphaph · 08-08-2014 7:40pm

visual wrote: »

What can you expect from those who feel entitled to exploit those less fortunate. The market has turned and with that so has greasy greedy hands

Are tenants who request rent decreases in bad times also greedy?

Tarzana · 08-08-2014 7:51pm

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Surely your not liable for a bill ran up in someone else's name...

My thoughts too. The previous tenant in the place I'm currently in didn't pay his last electric bill. I transferred the account to my name but the outstanding amount has nothing to do with me, it's a separate thing. Seriously, wasn't even mentioned by my provider, and the bills received so far have reflected the readings I submitted.

Tarzana · 08-08-2014 7:53pm

davo10 wrote: »

I should say as well that if you are one of "those less fortunate" who cannot afford a second months deposit, then you have no "wriggle room" to pay rent if some other unforeseen expense comes up.

Well, that is the reality for many people in the country today, little to no wiggle room. Those people still need a roof over their heads.

Tarzana · 08-08-2014 7:54pm

beauf wrote: »

I think you'd need to gather data to support your objective. So a comparison and analysis of systems in other countries. Then lobby politicians and vested interests with the data. Too many on the boards acc & prop forum don't seem to be able to look at things analytically. people are too bitter from their experiences I assume.

Thank you.

davo10 · 08-08-2014 8:07pm

Tarzana wrote: »

Well, that is the reality for many people in the country today, little to no wiggle room. Those people still need a roof over their heads.

But it is not the responsibility of LL to provide that roof over their head. The LL puts the property up for rent, informs the perspective tenants of the T&Cs and they then they decide to take it or not, the LL is not "required" to rent it to anyone, anymore than any person is "required" to rent it. You are free to choose.

Tarzana · 08-08-2014 9:16pm

davo10 wrote: »

But it is not the responsibility of LL to provide that roof over their head.

Obviously not. We know, we know.

Just pointing out that, yeah, lots of people have very little wiggle room these days.

murphaph · 08-08-2014 9:58pm

Tarzana wrote: »

Obviously not. We know, we know.

Just pointing out that, yeah, lots of people have very little wiggle room these days.

Including many landlords I'm sure you'll agree.

Tarzana · 08-08-2014 11:03pm

murphaph wrote: »

Including many landlords I'm sure you'll agree.

Well then those landlords should be more empathetic and understanding of the fact that two month's deposit money is too much for many people, no?

If there was a third party system, people might be more amenable to scraping together the money. As it stands now, it's a huge risk handing that much over to landlords, when money is so tight for many. And yes, landlords have their pick of tenants but I'd personally rather live in a dump or far out of the city than hand over that much in the current system. I realise landlords couldn't give a crap and I totally accept that. I'd tend to with the poster who said earlier in the thread that it's not as common as LLs are making out on this thread though. I have yet to come across it, and I recently found high quality accommodation in the competitive Dublin market.

Bepolite · 08-08-2014 11:14pm

visual wrote: »

What can you expect from those who feel entitled to exploit those less fortunate. The market has turned and with that so has greasy greedy hands

If you're referring to me I'm not sure why you feel I'm exploitative? I'm putting a deposit in an interest bearing account and returning every penny to a good tenant that pays the rent and doesn't damage my property. As for being less fortunate come off it - if you can afford to rent in central Dublin you're not poor.

I'm all for a properly regulated credit rating system and escrow. The problem is this would mean a large number of people would be forced on to social housing lists after they screw their landlords and wound up with no one willing to rent to them.

Bepolite · 08-08-2014 11:24pm

Tarzana wrote: »

What's with the tood? Jays. Wish someone more informative and less passive aggressive had responded.

I do apologise. Sometimes I get annoyed when I have to explain what I perceive to be the bleedin' obvious. I consider myself to be of only average intelligence but perhaps I am wrong in that regard. My frustration stems from the sheer amount of wasted effort on places like boards, Joe Duffy etc when people could actually be doing something about it.

What I would suggest is a letter campaign to your local TD, why not start a thread here, subject to moderator approval, gather some of the best policies from other countries, suggest a solution and use this site to get people to join your cause. You could use other social media such as Facebook and you could also get out and about and knock on doors in your local area where you know there are a lot of renters.

One way to make your argument much stronger would be to get buy in from landlords, suggesting something that was acceptable to them also. This would certainly then be something you might get some support from housing groups like Threshold. All of this would build pressure in both directions to ultimately what politicians care about - votes. A policy that wins votes is good, backed up with a possibility of losing them even better.

Would you pay 2 months deposit?

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