Why do some folks hate Metalcore?

Links234

Ok, this has been bothering me for a while, because in some places (not here, we seem to be much more chilled on boards) people seem to really despise metalcore, and I genuinely don't get it. So, metalcore is like a fusion of metal and hardcore punk, right? Well, that as a concept isn't all that new because wasn't Thrash the fusion of metal and hardcore punk of it's day? And when I listen to some metalcore bands I actually get a strong vibe of the Swedish Melodic Death Metal sound off them.

I wouldn't be the biggest Metalcore fan, but at the same time, some bands I would listen to and have seen live before are Unearth and Darkest Hour, and I think they're pretty damn good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYKlEPrGTpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5wSexIGURs

I get that there's gonna be examples of really awful bands, but that's the same as any genre or subgenre, isn't it?

Morf

Depends on your definition of "metalcore". The earlier one or the later one.

Earlier is metally-hardcore. Later is re-used ATG Slaughter Of The Soul riffs (generalising here).

Burnt By The Sun would come under earlier and they're great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9dAjKUnB68

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYRhE2GnzE0

Schwiiing

Take guitar, tune to Drop C, write riffs based around the 7th 8th and 10th frets on the 2 lowest strings or the 5th 7th and 8th on the A and D strings, growl the vocals during the verse, clean vocals on a catchy melodic chorus, sweep picked solos, repeat ad nauseum. Usually played by musicians who look more interested in their hair and eyeliner than writing anything new or original.

Passenger

Links234 wrote: »

Ok, this has been bothering me for a while, because in some places (not here, we seem to be much more chilled on boards) people seem to really despise metalcore, and I genuinely don't get it. So, metalcore is like a fusion of metal and hardcore punk, right? Well, that as a concept isn't all that new because wasn't Thrash the fusion of metal and hardcore punk of it's day? And when I listen to some metalcore bands I actually get a strong vibe of the Swedish Melodic Death Metal sound off them.

I wouldn't be the biggest Metalcore fan, but at the same time, some bands I would listen to and have seen live before are Unearth and Darkest Hour, and I think they're pretty damn good.

I get that there's gonna be examples of really awful bands, but that's the same as any genre or subgenre, isn't it?

Well it's certainly not my cup of scald but I'd venture that most of it's detractors are put off my the image in particular that a lot of the more popular bands would promote. Music-wise, it is exceedingly formulaic compared to other sub genres. How, in your opinion, would those two bands that you posted differ from say a compositional standpoint?

Schwiiing wrote: »

Take guitar, tune to Drop C, write riffs based around the 7th 8th and 10th frets on the 2 lowest strings or the 5th 7th and 8th on the A and D strings, growl the vocals during the verse, clean vocals on a catchy melodic chorus, sweep picked solos, repeat ad nauseum.

Ah sure you can summerise most genres with a similar scoffing deconstruction. :pac:

Schwiiing

Passenger wrote: »

Ah sure you can summerise most genres with a similar scoffing deconstruction. :pac:

True but not to the degree same as metalcore. Metalcore is formulaic and derivative to the point of every riff sounding the exact same, to my ears at least.

SilverScreen

Nothing formulaic and derivative about these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMPvknyczCE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RciDN0f8PVA

And no, they didn't dye their hair or wear make-up either.

Morf

^^^^

More good metalcore!

weisses

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raRHUG0PkQU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIScWpfZ2Z4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx4upYj3xHk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiDnB-CrrNs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwbLDiATifE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7lpftvYDMA

Whats not to like ??

RayCon

I don't know what Metalcore is ... nor would I be familiar with any of the bands posted so far ...so I had a quick blast of about 5 random bands posted above and instantly thought

• Hate the drum sound and constant double bass drumming
• Hate the scream vocals

If this is what "Metalcore" is ... I'm happy to leave well enough alone.

solomafioso

'cos it's sh*t...




in my opinion

D.Q

I wouldnt count Lamb of God as metalcore. My understanding of metalcore was that it had that heavy drum sound with melodic riffs and scream/sing vocals. Trivium essentially sum up my vision of the quintessential metalcore band.

Always seemed very formulaic to me. Seemed to put a huge amount of care into image and not enough care into trying to push the boundaries of their sound.

Links234

Passenger wrote: »

Well it's certainly not my cup of scald but I'd venture that most of it's detractors are put off my the image in particular that a lot of the more popular bands would promote. Music-wise, it is exceedingly formulaic compared to other sub genres. How, in your opinion, would those two bands that you posted differ from say a compositional standpoint?

Honestly, it's not really my genre at all, and I wouldn't be hugely familiar with a lot of the bands, just a few that I'd listen to and have seen live before. But for the differences between the two bands I posted? Well, I think Unearth are more technical, but I guess they're similar enough.

I guess there's a lot of big choruses in a lot of the stuff, it's fairly melodic, but is any of that necessarily a bad thing? Hell a lot of the power metal stuff I love is super melodic and packed full of big choruses. I'm trying to pin down what it is people find so objectionable about all this, and I'm genuinely coming up clueless because most of the criticisms so far could be leveled against so much of metal in general, blastbeats are extremely prominent in other metal subgenres, etc.

And the whole "they're all about image, not music" is the biggest nonsense criticism ever! Like, COME ON!





And that's not a criticism of those bands! I absofukkinlutely LOVE them!

But I mean, come on, you're telling me it's the likes of these guys who are all about image:



Really?

Also, it seems to be setting up a false dichotomy, suggesting that a band can either have good music or image, that somehow one has to come at the expense of the other. And that's just not the case at all, it's not like the musicians come along and say hey, we can't practice today guys, we're doing our hair. :pac:

Mr. CooL ICE

I hate how incredibly formulaic most of it is. When Killswitch became really popular, I tried giving them a chance, but the great riffs followed by godawful Blink182-esque chorus in every fcuking song did my head in. It never worked, but they did it over and over again. So many potentially decent songs ruined by that formula.

The first time I heard Trivium, I thought they were good... until it reached the chorus. It was at this point I realised that if this is what metalcore is, then I hate metalcore.

There are some bands that have an occasional metalcore element that I occasionally enjoy, such as Gojira, Chimaira, etc, but the majority of it is absolute pants. And it annoys me how popular it is.

solomafioso

LordChessington wrote: »

I hate how incredibly formulaic most of it is. When Killswitch became really popular, I tried giving them a chance, but the great riffs followed by godawful Blink182-esque chorus in every fcuking song did my head in. It never worked, but they did it over and over again. So many potentially decent songs ruined by that formula.

Have to agree with this. I actually went to the gig in the Academy and was bored witless about four songs in. I'll admit I do like a few of their singles, but the gig just blended in to one song and I actually thought they were playing the same one over and over. Not for me unfortunately.

Personally, it's bland 'by the numbers' music. Shouty scratchy vocal bit, clean sung chorus, bit of a cr*p solo, buildup, end on a fade out.

smackbunnybaby

I threw on Killswitch Engage there, who I would class as a metalcore.

Autotune vocal, double bass pedal that has no character, duel vocals (clean and scream).

It's not very good at all.
Not only is the music formulaic, the 'metal' end of the genre, not the hardcore end, tend to be very image orientated.

It reminds me of scuzz and kerranng tv, which I am sure we can all agree is b*ll*x.

Taken from Wiki:

Pioneering bands, such as— Hogan's Heroes,[3][4] Earth Crisis, and Integrity,[4][5] —are described to lean more toward hardcore punk, whereas latter bands—Killswitch Engage, Bury Tomorrow, Underoath, All That Remains, Trivium, As I Lay Dying, Bullet for My Valentine, and The Devil Wears Prada —are described to lean more towards metal

Generic Dreadhead

Links234 wrote: »

Ok, this has been bothering me for a while, because in some places (not here, we seem to be much more chilled on boards) people seem to really despise metalcore

Metal fans generally seem to have a lot of time and energy to hate Metal in it's many forms.

Metalcore is to the 00s as Thrash was to the 80s but sure everyone is always on a high horse about what they listen to and how that's the only "true" metal. Makes me despair sometimes :rolleyes:

Links234

Cormac... wrote: »

Metal fans generally seem to have a lot of time and energy to hate Metal in it's many forms.

Metalcore is to the 00s as Thrash was to the 80s but sure everyone is always on a high horse about what they listen to and how that's the only "true" metal. Makes me despair sometimes :rolleyes:

I always think this pic is hilariously accurate:

MadYaker

It's an abomination. Just like powermetal.

solomafioso

MadYaker wrote: »

It's an abomination. Just like powermetal.

And glam. :pac:

Links234

MadYaker wrote: »

It's an abomination. Just like powermetal.

ಠ_ಠ

Just Like Heaven

Alive or Just Breathing is still one of the best metalcore albums. Wouldn't say Trivium really has much to do with metalcore. Earth Crisis were great and the first 36 Crazyfists album was class.

Jane Doe is still the best album ever I don't know why anybody's ever tried to make music since tbh.

Furious-Red

Out of all the "Metal" genres Metalcore is my favourite tbh . I dont really listen to metal as much these days but im a massive fan of bands like Killswitch Engage(whose last album was brilliant as their gig in the Academy) , 36 Crazyfists and All That Remains.

Cill94

Schwiiing wrote: »

Take guitar, tune to Drop C, write riffs based around the 7th 8th and 10th frets on the 2 lowest strings or the 5th 7th and 8th on the A and D strings, growl the vocals during the verse, clean vocals on a catchy melodic chorus, sweep picked solos, repeat ad nauseum. Usually played by musicians who look more interested in their hair and eyeliner than writing anything new or original.

You can do that with other genres as well. You could say thrash is all bottom E string palm-muted tremolo picking,power chords, and picking in triplets. Death metal is all blast beats and the bottom 2 strings and sweep picking solos with no soul, usually played by musicians that look more interested in playing fast and being offensive than writing anything new or original.

Every genre has stereotypes.

I tend to think metalcore bands are ****e because of the vocals. Very wimpy and moany sounding to my ears, don't think it works with the heavy music too well. I've found bands with vocals I like though. If Lamb Of God are considered metalcore, then I like them.

Mr. CooL ICE

You really cannot, in a million years, compare the two.

Furious-Red

LordChessington wrote: »

You really cannot, in a million years, compare the two.

Tbh i totally regret that comment twas quite drunk last night whilst typing

Useful.Idiot

Metalcore to me seems to be an umbrella term that can seemingly fit a large sonic palette of metal sounds. I believe that most of the criticism levelled at metalcore at large are indeed geared towards the droves of stereotypical bands who usually come to mind when thinking of metalcore, who are hugely lacking in originality and as mentioned above, are overly formulaic in their song writing. Killswitch Engage's early stuff is a great of example of how to perform this kind of music well though.

Then again this stuff is miles away from the likes of Converge, who I think shouldn't be associated with the tag as it is largely perceived, as they are more of a viciously aggressive hardcore band with some metal elements.

I think the genre gets more flack than others who suffer from stereotypes as it's so popular in the metal mainstream. It's not really my cup of tea anymore so I'm quite happy to mostly avoid it other than a rare gem I come across now and again.

Did someone just call Gojira metalcore?! For shame!

gizmo

I used to be able to say I love metalcore but as others have said already, the term is now so broad that it encompasses such an awful amount of nonsense that I find it very difficult to do so anymore.

For instance, I absolutely love Killswitch Engage, Unearth and As I Lay Dying. I've seen the former live a few times with both Howard and Jessie and their performances have always been fantastic. Here's Breath Life from their DVD from a few years back.

Unearth, on the other hand, have little of catchy melodic stuff that Killswitch have. Here's one of my fave tracks from their third album.

AILD have some more varied material across their albums such as this, Within Destruction.

But the problem with Metalcore is that this crap is now coming under the banner.

apoch632

Metalcore was about two scenes ago :P (Christ I'm old enough to remember it being called the new wave of american heavy metal and Mastodon & Lamb of God were considered a part of it :P )

On a serious point
Issues were posted above. They aren't really metalcore. More a part of the whole Nu-Metal revival scene that's emerged in maybe the last year and a half, it's a hybrid of Nu Metal (Personally would see them more in the succession of this), Metalcore with bits of EDM and RnB thrown in there. It's still finding it's feet and a lot of bands are finding their sound within it. Issues are one of the first to get attention. I'm interested to see what happens there. Attack Attack were the crab metal joke a few years back. They've become a *not terrible* band

I know it may not be everyone's thing right now but no more than Djent as long as bands are doing and trying something new and not just trying to relive the past ala the AC/DC clones, Thrash Revival and Glam Revival a few years back I think it's healthy. Yes it is bringing back some of the elements of metalcore but at least it's trying something new

Like i know metal overdoes it with the over-stratification of genres but as long as it's something new I'm all for it

gizmo

Ah yes, I forgot to mention the growth of "Electronicore" which seems to be conflated, erroneously imo, with Metalcore these days too. A few more recent and, imo, fairly horrid examples...

Generic Dreadhead

gizmo wrote: »

Ah yes, I forgot to mention the growth of "Electronicore"

Good Electonicore is really enjoyable when done well and not just Metal with some sampling for the sake of it.

Personally I quite like Crossfaith, used to love Mad Capsule Markets, Liked early Enter Shikari.

Unfortunately Electronicore can often be used as a blanket term by Metal fans who listen to the more traditional Trash, Death etc genres and think anything that has sounds not made by a Valve amp and Wah pedal is new and scary and has no place in this world, it's like Nu-Metal and they don't like it, they don't like it one bit!

Generic Dreadhead

For example, I like this quiet a bit, regardless of others hate and vitriol